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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
I have avoided talking to the family, especially about my marriage. I had spokento them proir to their posts about the wayward mind and it taking time to accept blame. They should have bwcked off before and wllowed the process to work.
I will be wpeaking t them today because i wm tired of this.

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY TO ALL MY FELLOW MOMS OUT THERE!

RQ, I would be encouraging him to not act like a punk around your family. He is not the victim here, after all. It helped my husband tremendously to go to my family and apologize for his despicable behavior. And while your husband might be foggy and doesn't feel "sincere" he needs to stop blaming the victims. Help him be a MAN and not a punk, rocketqueen. Raising the bar on my husband helped him be a better man.

Your family has been hurt just as you have. Their reaction is in response to his scummy behavior. Beating them up for their reaction is cruel and ungrateful especially since they were there for you when your husband betrayed you.

Please insist that he come back and post to me and tst... Running from criticism is not going to help him one bit.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Do you think your family would be more supportive if they felt your H was more contrite?

You have expressed your own concerns about his not being remorseful enough...so I think that is part of the problem. They should stay out of the middle of it yet your H needs to realize he brought this on himself, with his bad behavior.

I was fortunate in that I didn't have to deal with a ton of fallout from my extended family since we all live far apart. It was hard when my brother came to town though and my H had to see him for the first time. My brother was so gracious to my husband...but mainly because he knew through our conversations that H was doing everything he could to make things right. In turn, H was very humble and gracious towards my brother as well.

I don't know what your family dynamics are; everyone's different. Some people live in families where everyone's always up in each other's business, trying to run each other's lives. My cousins are all like that. I don't have that with my brother - or even with my parents. I don't think I would want to either! It typically causes a lot of problems.

What was your relationship like with your family before the crisis? Do you think it was a problem in your marriage or is this a result of the A? I think it would help differentiate not to just negotiate the current goings on but so you can understand how better to deal with the situation in the future.

Mel's right: it is up to your H to do the heavy lifting, at least to some degree. Even with my kids I know my H (when he was still foggy) was angry with our kids for "siding" with me. In his fog he truly thought they would support him! He had to suck it up and mend those fences. But, he had more at stake, being his children.

Everyone involved needs to remember that this is a marathon and it takes time.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
RQ, I would be encouraging him to not act like a punk around your family. He is not the victim here, after all. It helped my husband tremendously to go to my family and apologize for his despicable behavior. And while your husband might be foggy and doesn't feel "sincere" he needs to stop blaming the victims. Help him be a MAN and not a punk, rocketqueen. Raising the bar on my husband helped him be a better man.
ML - He hasn't been around the family AT ALL and he doesn't blame them for anything. But before he could apologize, he was told not to bother and was verbally attacked here.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Your family has been hurt just as you have. Their reaction is in response to his scummy behavior. Beating them up for their reaction is cruel and ungrateful especially since they were there for you when your husband betrayed you.

Please insist that he come back and post to me and tst... Running from criticism is not going to help him one bit.

I understand my family's hurt. They stood by my side the whole time and did everything I asked them to. They did not want to get involved but they did everything I asked them to because they could not stand by and watch the destruction going on. It is only because of them that I was able to survive my WH's affair. I had lost 40 lbs, I was in the hospital for dehydration and I was a nervous wreck. My MOM was the one who came to the hospital because my WH was too busy texting his skank ho. I absolutely understand their hurt. I am not trying to beat them up. But I need them to know that I do not deserve the hurtful texts and e-mails I had received nor do I appreciate them posting here and interfering in our recovery.

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Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Do you think your family would be more supportive if they felt your H was more contrite?

You have expressed your own concerns about his not being remorseful enough...so I think that is part of the problem. They should stay out of the middle of it yet your H needs to realize he brought this on himself, with his bad behavior.

After speaking to Dr. Harley, I was told that I should not expect an apology for some time. And to instead look at my WH's actions as just compensation. It is only recently that my WH removed the blame from the A off of me.


Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
What was your relationship like with your family before the crisis? Do you think it was a problem in your marriage or is this a result of the A? I think it would help differentiate not to just negotiate the current goings on but so you can understand how better to deal with the situation in the future.

The family had always been very close. We also live very close to each other. I'm not sure what problem you are referring to specifically but there weren't any clashes prior to my WH's affair.


Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Everyone involved needs to remember that this is a marathon and it takes time.

Exactly!

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I wish everyone would listen to what Dr. Harely has said to you.

Here are your clips so others can listen too.

Radio clip of RQ
Segment #2


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Do you think your family would be more supportive if they felt your H was more contrite?

You have expressed your own concerns about his not being remorseful enough...so I think that is part of the problem. They should stay out of the middle of it yet your H needs to realize he brought this on himself, with his bad behavior.

After speaking to Dr. Harley, I was told that I should not expect an apology for some time. And to instead look at my WH's actions as just compensation. It is only recently that my WH removed the blame from the A off of me.


Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
What was your relationship like with your family before the crisis? Do you think it was a problem in your marriage or is this a result of the A? I think it would help differentiate not to just negotiate the current goings on but so you can understand how better to deal with the situation in the future.

The family had always been very close. We also live very close to each other. I'm not sure what problem you are referring to specifically but there weren't any clashes prior to my WH's affair.


Originally Posted by SunnyDinTX
Everyone involved needs to remember that this is a marathon and it takes time.

Exactly!


I understand that it may take awhile for the apology to come and to look for actions. I'm just suggesting that because your family doesn't understand the program, etc... that perhaps if you have been relaying your feelings to them about wanting him to be more remorseful, they are feeding off of that.

And I didn't mean you had any specific problems with the family before all of this. It was just a question to examine that possibility, if it existed. My cousin's H, for instance, feels he has no say in his own life half the time because my cousin's sister and mother dictate everything and my cousin lets them... He's very resentful about it. It's a disaster waiting to happen. Again - not saying that's the case in your family. Just wanted to flesh out the possibility that part of this is raises its ugly head because of the past. If it is solely because of your H's affair and how he treated you while wayward... then that is different.

In my case, it helped that I educated my brother and SIL on the whole concept of waywardness and the MB program. I also explained to them that I didn't blame myself at all for my H's affair, but that I had responsibility in our marriage getting to the point to where it made it easier for him to cross boundaries. Obviously they know about MB - and about this site. They may not understand it, however. If they truly want to know what it's all about and to help you at this point, then it would behoove them to get educated.

In any case, you don't need or deserve nasty emails or texts directed at you. You are right to set some boundaries. But at some point, your H is going to have to reach out to your family and express his regret for what happened if those fences are going to be mended. It will be up to him to do the heavy lifting in that department. The priority, of course, is that the two of you work recovery together and get to a healthy point.

I don't think it's been spelled out as to how all this family nastiness came about. If you were complaining about your H one day and then told them the next that you were taking him back, it probably raised their eyebrows quite a bit. With all the wavering going on, they were as confused as you were. ???

For me, I viewed recovery as a closed door to everything and everyone else. Once H committed to it and he had met my EPs, I shut down the negative talk about him to my family and friends. I felt I had to protect the marriage in its fragile state. That meant no more talk about what had happened or how hurt I was or anything else - and just sharing the positive things about what we were doing. I had to lead and have confidence in what I was doing so others could have faith in it... including my own children.

Right now it doesn't matter so much how all this came about as it does that it stop. Everyone needs to take a time out. When feelings aren't so flustered perhaps it will be much easier to negotiate new terms of familial relationships.

I liked HPB's post - that your family needs to trust that with SH counseling you all and if Kiss remains posting here - he will get called on his stuff enough, without them needing to be the ones to do it.


"The #1 reason why people give up so quickly is because they tend to look at how far they still have to go, rather than how far they've gotten."

Me, FBW(46) H, FWH (43)
M - 21 yrs & counting
D (20)
S (18)
S (16)
Surviving and Thriving since November 2010 thanks to MB!
My Recovery Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538986#Post2538986
My Original Thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457141&page=1

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And another complicating factor, RQ.....

Can you imagine how difficult it will be for your WH to "isolate" the different inputs from your family, and keep those jumbled interpretations separate from those YOU supply?

Sorry, if this seems like I'm giving you the burden of fixing this, but until Kiss gets his act entirely together (if ever) you have to bar your family from "pissing in the soup-pot".

Or not....

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SunnyD, I have been avoiding discussing anything about our recovery with my family so I'm sure what they know is what I have posted on here. But I had spoken to a family member weeks ago about the wayward mind. I asked her if I should believe that my WH's A was because I was a frigid, sloppy, b*och the way he said I was in his first post and she said no. So I said "then why would you believe what he says about you??" I think it is still hard for her to grasp.
This is just part of the issues I am dealing with. I also recently learned that he has yet to speak to my DS21 and that my son is not too thrilled about WH being here often let alone moving in.
It seems that there is still a lot of cleaning up to do after the "hurricane" before re-building can start. Kiss better grab a broom and get started! I totally agree with ML that he needs to man up and stop hiding.

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RQ, just because your husband is foggy does not mean your family is obliged to accommodate him. He doesn't get a pass. He is not saying things like that to you now and I doubt you would tolerate it for 2 seconds if he did. Nor should your family tolerate it. Being foggy is not an excuse for bad behavior. It is a sign that he needs to change his behavior and wake his [censored] up.

I would stop defending your husband and tell him he needs to handle the problem with your family. Your husband is in the wrong here, not your family.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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ML, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't know if I am supposed to stay out of the middle, defend my marriage or defend my family. I have been told by Dr. Harley to have my WH move in, tell my family to stay out of it and not to expect an apology for some time. I am hearing many conflicting things so I am not sure what my next step is....
But I know that he should be apologizing to them and speaking to others about his A because it is causing me unhappiness and I am reading Lovebusters and that is one of the basic concepts
"Do whatever you can to make your spouse happy and avoid anything that makes your spouse unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy"

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...you have to bar your family from "pissing in the soup-pot". - the amateur NG

...told by Dr. Harley to have my WH move in, tell my family to stay out of it - the expert Dr. H

Well, having roughly the same advice emanating from sources from the ridiculous to the sublime, I would suggest that you have a clear direction, RQ.

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
After speaking to Dr. Harley, I was told that I should not expect an apology for some time. And to instead look at my WH's actions as just compensation.

I would heed the advice of the licensed psychologist with decades of experience who has saved thousands of marriages, and assembled the very program we advise from... and also his children... and then his coaches.

I see your situation, and the echoes of a particular letter preceding an infidelity article just echo through my head over and over...


"DO NOT JUDGE HER!"



The thing is... if your husband provides just compensation it is possible that you could forgive him before he apologizes. And right now, that apology would only be a paper thin token.

His actions will define his remorse, his repentence.


Wife beaters apologize between beatings.


His actions over time should speak remorse.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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NG - yes, you both agree on the same point LOL. But the family demanding an apology which everyone here thinks he should give is conflicting with telling them to stay out of it and quit "pissing in the soup pot". KWIM?
HHH- Exactly how I feel this should be played out. One side of me feels that I should be stepping back and allowing things to happen. The other side of me feels I should be trying to fix things just as I have been doing for the last 6+ months.
Do you happen to have a link to that letter? I would love to read it!

PS If you are referring to the apology to me, I understand what Dr Harley said about not expecting one so soon and I understand the any given to me right now would be insincere. It is his actions that matter

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http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5033b_qa.html

Mind you, that is a response to a BH and how to handle his WW.


You may feel better reading the articles aimed at BWs;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5032a_qa.html

You'll find that Dr. Harley's advice lacks the flourish we peers tend to pile on.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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HHH- I read the letters you posted, thanks. Do you mean that WH should not be judged? Do you think that is what I am doing? Is there something I should be doing? I just want to be clear on what it looks like to an "outsider". Thanks so much for your help!

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RQ,

I love Dr. Harley!

I love when people follow his advice, they increase their chances of success.

But I know Dr. Harley doesn't live in your home, you do!
And I know Dr. Harley doesn't have to live with your unrepentant husband, you do!

I also know Dr. Harley would never personally recover a marriage where infidelity has occurred, let alone recover one without an apology. But here you are......

So the decision really comes down to; what are you willing to live with?
It's your decision!

I highly recommend you make ABSOLUTELY no major life changes for one year. You can see how things progress in the area of repentance and make adjustments accordingly. (I will add that my wife refused to move ahead unless I was 100% visibly repentant. It was a wise choice on her part)

The thing you don't even realize yet; You really haven't even started the painful journey of recovery yet. The first 12 months will be incredibly difficult once he's moved in. And there is a great deal of drama already brewing. Can you both keep focused? Can you both help your children heal? can you both work the program and meet the UA every week? Are YOU willing? Is HE willing?


The MB Program is a narrow road to follow and it's really quite simple, but it's NOT easy! It's WORK 24/7 that will reap great rewards or be a path riddled with resentments......

And it takes two 100% committed people!








Last edited by HerPapaBear; 05/14/12 04:25 PM. Reason: fixed a line




Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
ML, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't know if I am supposed to stay out of the middle, defend my marriage or defend my family. I have been told by Dr. Harley to have my WH move in, tell my family to stay out of it and not to expect an apology for some time. I am hearing many conflicting things so I am not sure what my next step is....
But I know that he should be apologizing to them and speaking to others about his A because it is causing me unhappiness and I am reading Lovebusters and that is one of the basic concepts
"Do whatever you can to make your spouse happy and avoid anything that makes your spouse unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy"

RQ, you might not expect an apology, but others do. Your family does apparently. If that is what it will take to mend this rift, why wouldn't he volunteer to make that relationship right? You shouldn't even have to ask him. Others here can see that he is not accepting consequences for his actions. Perhaps you can't hold him accountable, but others here CAN. For him to put you at odds with your own family is despicable and guess what? I will not hesitate to tell him so.

Please stop protecting your husband and send him back on this forum. Tell him to demonstrate his sincerity and come on back here and post to us.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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And why is your family angry at him? Because the lamb was singing too loud in church? Or is it because he committed the equivalence of RAPE on his wife?

RQ, you don't have to demand that your WS apologize or do anything. He doesn't have to do a damn thing. That doesn't stop me, tst, others here, or your family from suggesting he put on his big gurl panties and stop being a wedge between you and your family. Your family does not deserve his ungrateful, rude treatment..



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
ML, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't know if I am supposed to stay out of the middle, defend my marriage or defend my family.

Agree you should stay out of the middle. Your h is a big boy and can handle it on his own.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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"My heart is in this 100 percent what ever it takes. I love my wife more then life its self. I will do anything she needs. I do not want our marriage to go back to the way it was. I want us to have the best marriage ever. I want us to be best friends."

There ya go, RQ! Your H said this on 4-27 so it appears he is willing to do whatever you need. You don't even have to ASK him to make this right with our family. He says here he is willing. Please ask him to come back here and speak to me.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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