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I've requested an appt w/SH for next week. i think i need some new material. every time my H asks me how i'm doing, i've just been saying i'm taking one day at a time. well he actually threw that back at me yesterday saying that he's just doing the same thing because he doesn't know what else to do and is just trying to lead a normal life. SH not to give my H a false impression that everything was fine and i'm okay because it would essentially be giving him a get out of jail card but at the same time i'm not supposed to dwell on the fact i'm struggling. so i'll get an appt, update SH on all the developments, and readjust the plan as necessary.

prayers to all, RR

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Had a session w/SH this morning, it has been about 3 weeks since my last and a lot has happened since we last spoke so i had a lot to update him on.

but i did bring him up to speed. he also thought it was good for me to find the note from the OW to my H because it just re-inforced the fact that tensions will build, that it's happening already. again that is why using time helps so much because of the great possibility that their R will not last. that i'm still doing a good job. not letting my H off the hook necessarily by letting him think everything is all hunky dorey but at the same time being able to talk to him and meeting his needs when i can. SH thought it was also positive that my H was reading things (religious book) and taking classes in college(bible classes-he's a religious history major) that can only lead to him realize that he is on the wrong course and what he needs to do.

i told SH that i really felt that my H was seeking some approval from me by telling me some of the things he is doing or plans to do and that he is somehow trying to get my respect and admiration. i thought that maybe i could use something along those lines when my H came up to bring the dogs. for instance, knowing he is a good person and that i know the kind of man he wants to be and that i believed in him. again using time in my favor and not seeking a D or doing anything w/the house. always helping H to know that if he were to leave the A that he has something to come to and that it would be safe and he would not be alone and that some things are still being chipped away in this process.

SH said that i am getting better at selecting options that are better and being able to see things through more before acting on them. i did tell SH that i was feeling a bit like i'm not even the person who my H married and if that is who he fell in love with then what was i supposed to do? SH said that my H fell in love w/someone who cared about him and that what i am doing is trying to shake the unattractive picture my H has of me and the hurt he assoicates w/me. that i am still the same person but where as I used stubborness, agressiveness, and feistiness before as a lifestyle or way of life that now i use those traits when they are appropriate. that if my H were to jump off the raft of his A that he has somewhere else to jump off to instead of just the water and i have to be that other raft.

i told SH that i didn't necessarily think that my H would be the one to break things off that i felt more that it would have to be the OW that broke things off. SH said that because my H is such a conflict avoider that could actually be used in our favor because he would want to avoid conflict w/the OW as well. that he is just coasting along trying to avoid everything and that is just not the way to go and it will evenutally catch up w/him. even though we are not trying to educate my H that he is a conflict avoider or try to change that behavior, we can still use that as something "we know." SH thought it was still very possible that my H would be the one to break things off but he has got to know that i am there for him, that there is another option versus being alone.

i ran a few ideas by SH that i had w/still trying to stay in contact. i said that my H had offered to let my have the computer but that i decided no since that could still be a way to communicate to him because i knew he read sports related things on there, etc. SH said it was a wise decision and was good to keep the communication lines open. i read a card to SH that my H sent to me before we were married and if it would be a good idea to copy it and send it to my H like i had done before. SH agreed the card was a good one and that i could say something along the lines of "ran into this the other day and thought i would share it."

SH said that i really have 2 strategies, one that is more of a covert chipping away process that is the contact by mail, email, voice messages, etc. and then my other strategy is when we actually see each other or talk and that i am to use those times to re-inforce or drive home that we can work on things together and that i still want him back. if my H is to talk anymore about what his plans are or things that interest him then i could say something along the lines of "i wish i was a part of that because we would be a good team," or "it would be a good opportunity to work on things together," or "that i would like to be a part of sorting things out and what you want to do."

we also talked about the trip i was planning in august and that the timing of it was purposeful being that the OW's bday (21st) was the 23rd and i thought maybe if i was down there for some "legitmate reasons" that maybe i could cause some tension between them. i really didn't think that my H would tell me that he had plans and i'm sure he doesn't know that i know when her bday was. if asked by H if i could come a different time that i can honestly say that it was the best time for me to come because of the leave i needed to save up and because of some things at work. but i'm going to have to give him enough heads up that he can be off work. he did say that he would be starting classes that week so maybe he would already be planning to not work too much that week. of course he did say he was going to be looking for a different job the beginning of august so the possibility that he might not be able to get off work because he just started is something i may need to consider. but that i was working w/a 9/7/04 deadline to have my house hold goods moved unless i could get a waiver, which i will see if i can get. there would be a point where we would need to go through the house and separate things. SH thought it was a reasonable and good idea and he didn't think it would backfire on me. i've already put in for leave that week and will still plan to go for now.

My h's bday is tomorrow and asked what i could possibly say in a voice message because i was sure that he wouldn't answer the phone and he wasn't going to be home in order for me to send anything there. i told SH that i had thought about calling and saying that i was thinking of what we were doing on this birthday 11 years ago (we had been married less than a month and had made special plans before he was to go back to korea). Sh said that would be okay to do. i said that who knows maybe the OW might even have the phone and erase it and SH said then maybe that's something (my message) i could reference to in the future. i told SH that i had talked to my mom and asked if she had planned on sending my H a card or call him. she said that she had planned on it but during our last conversation had decided against it. i told her that it would probably still be a good idea and even though he wasn't at home to get it, it could be waiting for him when he got back. she said that it would probably just be something funny and i said that would be fine.

That's about it, most of the session was me bringing SH up to date. i'll try and schedule another session for the last week of july. prayers to all of you.

<small>[ July 13, 2004, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

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Thanks for these posts, RR. From this and your replies to my recent posts, you're obviously doing very well. Waiting for these As to end and trying to be in the "lighthouse" position when they do is awfully tough. If you're like me, at some point you realize that you aren't making the effort because you desperately need to and have no other choice, but you're doing it out of love, despite the risk and cost to yourself. Keep it up.

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GC, well i'm glad you think i'm doing well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> no i know in truth God is blessing me despite the trials and tribulations and all the heartache i'm experiencing. you are absolutely right, we are doing it out of love, i just don't feel i have a choice because i believe so much that our M can be better if given the chance. aren't we supposed to love those who don't love us or love those who despise us? i just feel that i would be calling myself or making myself out to be a liar if i have said to my H that i will always love him and will be there for him and then i'm not. it's continuing to follow your words w/actions.

i'm realistic to know that in the end it still may not work out b/w me and my H, as much as that hurts to think about (and i don't think about it too much). but for ME, i just feel like you and many others, to try and be a true lighthouse for my H and truly allow for God to do his will in my life, my H's life and our M. maybe i'm in a form of denial but i would rather look back and know i did everything i could rather then always wonder if i truly did everything i could. i just need to continue to pray that i will be given the opportunity in time.

you keep doing what you're doing too and keep the faith, prayers to you, RR

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next session is for 7/27/04 at 0800. figured it might be needed w/me seeing H the end of next week and i don't want to go too long in between sessions because then you spend the whole session bringing SH up to date! although w/the cost of these sessions i should probably try and stretch it out more. i'll probably "attempt" that starting in september. continued prayers to all, because we ALL need them.

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^ for maddyK

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session this am w/SH. brought him up to date, took me longer than i thought so actually didn't have a lot of time to talk about other things. told him i had put an envelope in the mail last night that had some phone bills for H and i also put a photocopy of a card that H sent to me before we were M (previously approved by SH to do this).

also talked about me sending a book to H based on our 2 last real conversations. the name of the book is "a case for Christ." H had read another book by the same author called "case for a creator" had really liked it and talked about it a lot and said he wanted to read the case for Christ as well. that kind of at this point i think it would be "appropriate" to send it because we had talked about it a couple of times but wasn't sure what kind of note i should put w/it. SH not to wrap it or do anything special, just to say something a long the lines of "our discussion earlier about a case for a creator got made me curious about the other book the author wrote so i went to the bookstore and got a copy for myself and picked one up for you. hope you find it as interesting as the other book." so i'll probably put that in the mail next week (i already bought the book on saturday but guess i'll have to buy another one for "myself").

of course we talked about my trip in august and the logistics about everything. why i would need to be there, how things may turn out, what H may think and/or perceive (kind of a coincidence that i was there on OW's bday), pro's/con's, SH thinks it's still a good idea to go but just really need to prepare myself. that if my H has plans on the 23rd then i just have to accept whatever else time that he gives me. but i should still try to sprinkle my new belief system in everything i do, which means, that i've changed, i still believe that we can rebuild a M that can be better than ever, and that it's possible to have the ideal scenario (to be in love w/your spouse).

SH said that this weekend at the earliest to tell H about the trip and that next weekend the latest. that even though i may not be able to occupy my H's time like i want that just me being there will cause stress on WS/OW R. because the truth of the matter is H is still M and that the OW knows that and it's got to be starting to get to her. but at the same time, as far as we know the D ball hasn't even started rolling yet and that's why i have to keep doing what i'm doing and if it does come to H filing then that is the time to be more assertive, not now.

this is because given what he (SH) knows of the situation and that my plan is taylored to that. because it is such a fine line that if too much pressure is put on H to think/feel a certain way, then that just may be what pushes him the other way (to a D) cause right now he is just so busy at being a conflict avoider and not causing any waves that he is just maintaing float. but if any waves are caused then he just might do anything he can to make those waves stop and that could be to D. i just need to keep doing what i am and chip away at the walls H has built around himself.

also still wise to keep a small mindset of preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. i'm going to try and get and appt for 8/10/04, i'll let you know, prayers to all of you, RR

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I forgot to say that during my last session w/SH that he talked about how what i'm doing is like witnessing to a friend. that ultimately my goal w/a friend would be that they would come to know Christ as their savior but i just don't come right out and say that. that it's a slow process and sometimes waiting for an opportunity that presents itself. so going to visit my H this month w/some ulterior motives is not necessarily a bad thing but does have purpose on several different levels.

i was able to get an appt for 8/10/04 at 0800. sometime by this sunday i have to tell my H that i'm coming down there again. i called and left a VM yesterday for him to call me about the taxes (our extension expires 8/15/04) and he hasn't called me back yet. if he hasn't called me back by tomorrow morning i'll call him again. if i'm not able to talk to him i'll leave a message and if i don't hear from him again by thursday, i'll call again and say that we need to talk. SH said that sunday (8/8/04) should be the latest i wait to tell my H that i'm coming. so we will see......

so i figured by the 10th i would have talked to my H a few times and will be able to discuss w/SH in more details about my trip later this month, not sure if i will get a chance to talk to SH before i go on my trip, probably not. but definitely first thing when i get back. prayers to all of you, RR

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RR, praying for you and the coming session. I haven't made the appt yet. I need few days to figure out what WH is at.

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Had my session w/SH this morning, really wish we had more time to talk or at least he wasn't so expensive that i could talk to him more often.

i brought him up to date, especially w/the conversation i had w/H and what he said. SH said yep, yep a lot like what my H said was to be expected. he siad the only thing for me to do the next time is not really high light the times when my H slips up and says things. in other words if my H says that he is "afraid" or that he "doesn't want to" that i can't really point that out. not that i wasn't calm or that i didn't raise my voice, only that to remind me to not do this in the future if my H should do this and i should probably expect that he might.

i told him that i didn't think this conversation would occur so "soon" and i am afraid that these type of conversations will occure more frequently but not because i bring them up. SH agreed that H will probably become more insistant and consistent that this is what he has to do. but in the end even if i do a perfect plan, etc. things still may not work out. but it's more of serving myself regardless of the end, that i want to be able to look back and say i did all i could. i told SH that i was concerned about coming across as "controlling" because i am also being adament that things could be different. SH said it would be controlling if i hadn't made any changes but since i have and have made a lot of significant changes then in the end it's just reinforcing an idea versus being controlling.

SH gave me some more "material" which i really think i needed. it's basically the same stuff i have been saying but just in different ways. he says that he really wants to commend me for the way i've been because that is having an affect on my H and that i have gained a lot more ground then i think i have. this is because if i hadn't made the changes, if i hadn't been the way i have been then H would have filed for a D already. SH said that i'm actually making it difficult for him to file, that he's less certain that D is the best option, he's 2nd guessing himself and in essence asking ME to file. i told SH that i feel that the OW has a pretty good hold on H and that if anything he is so afraid of hurting her now. SH agreed that he probably might feel obligated, especially w/the involvment of his family and that if he went back that he would just be perceived as weak. but i shouldn't be resigned to think that he will never come back, only that this is what he may be thinking. he agrees w/me that he is most definitely feeling pressure from somewhere and that it's pretty easy to file if that's what he wanted to do.

SH said he can tell i'm very determined and this can serve me well but to still kind of prepare myself so as not to be startled. i told SH that i can't hold to the idea that my H will never file, that i think it will be very likely that he will because i'm certainly not going to be the one that files. we talked about the trip to FL later this month and how i didn't think it was a good idea anymore. that i wasn't as convinced as i was, that i was afraid that i would be served while i was there or that H would make me meet OW or something bad would happen while i was there. SH agreed because in the fog state my H might hand me a D as a bday present to OW in an effort to show her something or like i said make us meet one another, etc. SH said it was kind of up to me. that if i went down there then just to be prepared for the worst but he also thought it might could be put off, especially since i pretty much know i received the extension.

as far as when my H says that i need to let him go, SH said to say that "this isn't really a letting you go problem-i'm holding onto a truth, a fact that if the 2 of us worked on things together than we could be happy." or "it's not that i'm holding on you but holding onto a fact that if we follow a set of rules we would fall in love again, but unfortunately you don't see that. i'm moving forward knowing there's an alternative that we can be happinly married for the rest of our lives."

if my h were to raise his voice or just get real adament about having to get a D, that he can't go back, that he has to do this or that, then i just come back w/(in a calm voice) "look, this where I am, if we were to stay married i believe that there's a way to be happy and i think it's about time we really try to work on being happy together."

if H talks about how long this is been going on then i could say again "you're right, i think it's about time we really try to work on being happy together." or "that this has been going on a long time and i don't want to hurt you anymore, we have the same goals but just differ on the solution."

he has said a few times that he loves me and if he says this again, then i can say "well, that's a good place to start" and/or "a reason to believe there's hope."

i said bottom line, H could be preparing to file as we speak and that i wasn't sure really what i could do. didn't feel like the courts would really sympathize w/me and that if i could force things to go to trial, then what? SH said really the only time things go to trial is when things are in dispute and in our case the only that's really in dispute is the fact i don't want a D and h does and that i believe there's a way to rebuild the M and H doesn't. SH said the courts don't really care and won't since we don't have kids and will just see us as adults who need to deal w/this. that even if i thought i needed more time to handle this and that i had a traumatic experience, et. then that is what counseling is for, etc.

i told SH that it is very sad that i've been married 11 years and have already been written off by the in-laws. that i haven't heard from them at all. i sent a baby present last month for one of the SIL who had a baby on 6/30/04. SH said that my H's nature to avoid conflict probably didn't fall far from the tree and that he didn't pick up those skills on the street.

SH said just to keep doing what i can, that it is working but still no matter how perfect i am that it still may not work out but that shouldn't keep me from doing all i can in the interim. he said i should still keep up w/the contact, that what has "happened" hasn't really changed things. but agreed w/me on not sending the book right now.

will let you know when the next session is, probably in 2-3 weeks. prayers to all of you, RR

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forgot to mention that SH wants me to ask H to talk to him again, make it a request for him. i told SH that i was afraid to do this right now given the timing after our last conversation. SH said if he says no then just to say "i'll let SH know." the last time H talked to SH was the end of May.

i'm just not convinced that now is the best time to ask H to talk to SH. i will talk to H about it but not right now, i think i will wait 2-3weeks. i have to come up w/a way to pay for all this anyway. i just honestly don't see my H agreeing to talking to SH, i mean it is MB for goodness sake and i think my H said that to SH the last time that they talked that of course he was saying what he was saying because he was from marriage builders. i personally think it would be more convincing if SH called H himself even if it was to leave a message and state he would like to talk to him.


prayers to all, RR

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^ for heroswife

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just had what i'm calling my "wrap up" session w/SH. i can't afford to counsel w/him anymore but i also don't think i necessarily need to given the circumstances.

i brought him up to date on everything and told him that i've basically decided to not really prolong the D because i don't want to come off as a bitter and angry woman and i can't stop the d anyway. i read him the last few thing that my H has sent me. SH of course agreed w/me that H does not have an accurate sense of what is involved as far as the financial situation and he advised me to try and avoid discussing financial things w/my H except for the house issues and that i should really go through my lawyer and get a legal perspective of what h can and can't do.

talked about the period after the D and that it will be a dust settling stage and that he recommends not dating for 6 months, 3 months at the minimum. i voiced my concerns w/getting involved w/someone and then things turn around w/h and then where i would be. SH said i really need to protect myself in the field and that i should use my "instrument panel" to guide me in my actions and that i've been given rules in the Bible to help me in these matters because they are things to live by regardless of how we feel at the time. but that it's better to establish boundaries at the beginning then trying to back track.

SH said he was confident that i would make the right decisions in all of this and that i have a good grasp of the MB concepts and what is needed and isn't concerned w/me not continuing the sessions w/him. he asked me if i regret anything that i've done in all this and i said no, that i could honestly look back and not regret anything i've done since i have found MB and started counseling w/him and couldn't even think of anything i could have done differently given my situation. he said that was the goal is to have walked the path and be able to loook back and not have any regrets.

so i thanked him said God bless you and maybe i would talk to him again some day. so that's the end of this chapter of my sessions w/SH i hope that it has helped some and has definitely helped me in remembering things we talked about. prayers to all, RR

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roughroad,

I wanted to commend you for taking the time to detail your counseling experiences here---you have no idea how many people you will impact with this post.

I'll keep you in my prayers---it's not done until it's done, and I'd second the advice to wait a while after the divorce before moving on and being to see other people.

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roughroad - Well, you are right, you did all you could. And I agree with Steve, you should not start dating for awhile. I am on the 19th month of this stuff, and have filed for D.

Even after the D, I am going to take some time before I go out with anyone. It takes a long time to heal, and I don't want to drag this baggage to my next relationship.

Have a great weekend.

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thanks K and believer for replying, i wasn't sure anyone was actually reading this thread anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

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roughroad, I think quite a few people read this thread and I know that I try to point people to it who seem to be in the same type of situation. I think everything in here is invaluable and will help many more people to come.

You know what I've kind of figured out? There are several people on the board who seem to have spouses who are the type to "never look back"...that even if they feel they have made a mistake, you can't ever see their spouses acting on that fact. I think your H is one of them..graycloud's and juke's wives seem to be like that as well. I think my husband will fall into this category but it's too early to tell. Anyway, I think many of the posters just do not know how to respond to that type of situation. They're afraid of their own spouses being like that so they stay away. They don't like to read about a situation where they don't feel like they have an advice that will help. And you know that's true for me too...I don't like reading threads where I don't feel like I can help constructively--it's just too depressing..and there are some people currently posting that I just want to say..."quit whining and DO something"..lol..but of course that's not very constructive.

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RR, thinking of you. Please do not leave us even you decide to go the other route. You did all you could, and you are being faithful to your VOWs and GOD.

{{{{{{{{{RR}}}}}}}}

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^ for SML

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