Phew!

You have no idea what a relief that was. I really did think I had flubbed that big-time. Glad we're good.

But you owe me some sleep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

NCW

Hi Jl,

Just from this tread, his history doesnt inticate he's ever been a moral, honest man. I mean, that's really some history!! I dont see that anything's changed. I'd really have to consider going forward with such a person. I know you know this, but you have to look at the person he is and not give in to the tough feelings. You'll 'feel' better in the long run by living your life with integrity. If you could have swallowed all his crap you would have done so by now. You cant. I couldnt have. Some can.


This says tons, too. Dont you think you deserve to hold out for a good one? Dont you WANT to think you deserve a good one? Please take care of yourself. I wish you well!! - Dru

JLS,

Just checking in. Missed you.

Dru has a point. There are good guys out there.

NCW

JLS, Hiya,

I'll make it a quick point to say if you grew up with parents like my parents, you probably sang many silly songs that had references to rotten fruit!

Back to you... I've read the recent posts to your thread and I am concerned with the idea we "deserve" certain things from our lives and the people in them. I don't know as I believe in all this "deserve" talk. The term "deserve" troubles me. As in we all "deserve" wonderful, happy, trouble-free lives and good feelings inside all the time. We deserve spouses that will be moral and giving people who love us unconditionally.

If we are so impossible that we hurt the people who love us most, is it really incumbent on them all to keep loving us?

For you biblical scholars, I would point out that even when God promises to take care of the people wandering in the desert, promising to fill their lives with happiness when they reach the promised land, the promise is not an unconditional one. God bestows six amazing blessings and then follows them up with no fewer than 104 curses.

Why? Why not just give the people what they "deserve"? Why threaten them and cause them worry? Because without exposure to discord and unhappiness, without "a mind to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear" we could not fully appreciate the beauty in our everyday lives.

Deserve also conveys a sense of attached failure that goes along with the concept of deserving goodness. Does that mean that if bad things happen to us, sickness or accident. do we deserve them too? Who can say what one of us deserves? Isn't that a typical WS line -- I'm not good enough for you. You deserve better than me...

Just a thought.
Sally

Sally, I think I just missed ya in Idiotville.

Yeah, I think that I get ya. Deserve or Earn. NcW, put in you rplace again! No really, I haven't been "up" to the serious stuff in a few days. Still digesting. I have thought, tho, along those lines, Sally, I may have done something to "help" the betrayal along this time. I am NOT perfect, believe it or not. Didn't DESERVE all hte crap, but hey, who does?! And it is an MB concept, that even BS "help" the M get to that place where an A is more possible/likely. Plan A is to help remedy that, right. I have changed ALOT for the better, in the last 2 yrs, and am sticking to that story.

Anyhow, too tired to type, and not great at that anyway. So off to beddybye for me!

Thanks, Cutlet Sally. aND NOW, I'm "bumped" for 2moro!

jls

Oh, and Dru, not avoiding your post. I THOUGHT that I had held out for the good one! Be bcak 2moro.

jls

Sal gets a high five.

But I think Dru and I (and can only speak for me) meant was that before JLS settles for something, she needs to understand in doing so, she gets what she settles for.

One of my favorite lines I use here is that Satan will give us something good to keep us from the best. Don't want that to happen to JLS. And I do think we deserve the best, there is just a path we must walk to get there. Ancient Israelites kept screwin' up in the desert. Reap what you sow kinda stuff.

The part about pain and ugliness helping one appreciate beauty and pleasure is a worldview many here share. Myself included.

NCW

Hey now, JLS, that was not an attempt to put anyone in their place! :-) And this isn't a mutual fan club sort of thing, but NCW wrote a message to me in response to this week’s drama with Phil that really touched me and I want to share it with you. You can read it here: NCWalker Wisdom (scroll to bottom). I think there is something valuable in it for all of us, but I think you’ll probably get a lot out of it the way I did... It was very good stuff.

Sal

I HATE when posts disappear..I will try again!!



I appreciate already, mostly anyhow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Have had enuf exposure to discord - Got it, durnitall.





EGZACTLY, Dru. It's so HARD not to give in to those tough feelings, tho. I have swallowed quite enough already, thank you. The song is NOT.. Just a spoonful of cr#p, helps the medicine go down
-But, maybe we hate to think that we ( I mean I here, in case u didn't realize) made such a big mistake,thus then self-proclaiming to be such a bad judge of character!

NCW,


I don't like elephant.




Whoever told you that is the one that is the snot. Nah nah nah nah boo-boo.




1st: I would like to defend this a little and say, Maybe that there are just an awful LOT of those out there!

2nd: doesn't that still make it MY bad. Maybe not "fault" really, but still ME?!

3rd: Remember(or let me tell u if u missed this), I went thru a whole lot of therapy when I was younger. Dealt with severe depression in my 20's, over a period of ~5 years, off and on. Mostly bad when going thru a "break-up". Relationship and Men abandonment issues. Thought I had really gotten thru most of that. And REALLY thought that this one (my H) was NOT like that. Still don't think that he is about ready to abandon me, so to speak. Undercommitted, yeah maybe. Hmm, or incapable of more, I often wonder. But then I am letting him off the hook. Not my style, not at this point!

Gonna start another post later and xplain why I don't like H much right now. Maybe 2moro, I dunno. I know that everyone will be waiting impatiently. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks NCW,
Be back for more of this later either way,

jls

NCW,


Maybe so. But sometimes that is all that is served. If it's too big to swallow, you must eat it one bite at a time. Your only other choice - go hunt something else. You may be ready to do that.

MAKE SURE. (And I am not saying you are not.) But I personally could not live with myself on a decision this big without being sure.



It was illustrative. Of course, Nah nah nah nah boo-boo DOES kind of provide some evidence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> WATCH IT, it's my alter ego Robby on I'ville, not ME.


I would agree. Why my wife found two just this year! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Yeah. Guess it does. You have choices too. Unfortunately, there is no course in picking a significant other. At worst I would say, your fault, but who could blame you, how well equipped were you for the hunt?

But you got ammo now. You KNOW what a good relationship "looks like" from this site. Doesn't ease the pain your in, but maybe gives a little hope.


My heart aches for your pain. It truly does. But if you feel you are defective for learning about your boundaries by having them painfully crossed. Don't. I don't consider myself defective, and that's how I learned a lot of them too. Fact is. You are in good company. And a good person, wonderfully made.

Ya' know, THIS actually made me chuckle. He CHEATED on you. We don't need no steenkin esplanation. I personally would much rather see you use the energy somewhere else. On something FOR YOU. You deserve it. If nothing else, crack a darn cold-one, put up your feet, take a swig and say "Aaaaah! It's only up from here." Then crack one for me.

...or get a massage.
...or go swimming on a hot spring day.

If the vent helps, by all means do and we will all nod our heads in understanding. But get some time for YOU. You DO deserve it.

Anytime, JLS, and I MEAN that.

THAT is it, EGGZACTAMUNDOLY. I am NOT sure. Sure that he lied about some things?, YES. Sure that he lied after all that junk went down, YES. Sure that I want somebody else?, Nope.







Glad I made you chuckle,for a change. But, Again, I don't KNOW this for SURE. And I don't really think that I might ever, if'n he doesn't confess. And the odds of that are Not in my favor. And I don't know how to ge thru that.

But I CAN crack open a cold one. Actually I don't drink beer, but there is other stuff that I do drink. And I'll get one for you too. So tell me what you like and pull up a chair. Can we sit outside? I'll even lock the goat up so he doesn't ram you in the,hmm-mm, jewels!

I am supposed to be doing paperwork right now and THIS is not it. Be back later, probably after kids are in bed.

jls

But before I do that paperwork(and start that Mon diet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) I will say this. H wants to move back in. Been pushing it really! Can't say that I blame him, even with my imperfections, I ain't that bad and hardly ever boring! Besides which, living with Mom and Dad is no fun, esp at 48.

Been thinking more about that Plan B thing. H simply says that I should trust him. Then, when I debate this point, he says time is all that will tell (he is right) and he really wants that time. I kept telling him that he needs to come up with a plan for us and to help me trust. (His turn)!! This is what he now says..Time.

I don't want to be unreasonable (I hate THAT). I feel for him, not being around his kids too! He was around this weekend alot again and played with S7 more than he has in years! H was very upset when nobody "wanted" him here last Wed, when I worked.

I JUST DON'T KNOW?!?!?!?! Phew, well..I don't.

jls

Been thinking more about that Plan B thing. H simply says that I should trust him. Then, when I debate this point, he says time is all that will tell (he is right) and he really wants that time. I kept telling him that he needs to come up with a plan for us and to help me trust. (His turn)!! This is what he now says..Time.

Did you go to MC (or IC) with him, and talk about the trust issue? If so, what was discussed.

I think going to counseling could be useful.

Trust is not something GIVEN by the BS.
It is something EARNED by the WS.

Time is a factor - trust is earned OVER TIME so that the BS can trust again. However, the secret is "Trust but verify." and if the WS has a problem with that, they don't understand the effect of betrayal very well.

SS

jls,

I agree with SS about trust.

Counseling would be useful, because it's not you educating your husband. And I think Steve Harley is the very best! He'll help your husband write a "recovery plan" that addresses the trust issue in a big way.

Think about it! It wasn't cheap $$$, but much cheaper than splitting up a family. In my case I made counseling with SH a condition of recovery! And, I'm so glad I did - recovery wouldn't have gone smooth at all, IF at all without his help. I had much to learn as a BS - I kept making mistakes that set back our recovery, until SH taught me not to.

I highly recommend him, and if you just can't - a MC that is pro-marriage who will help you navigate the counter-intuitive stuff...affair recovery is like a mine-field, you never know when/where you're going to step on that landmine. Counseling gives the tools you need to avoid the landmines - far less painful than stepping on every mine - I was naturally talented at hitting them all....how embarrassing!!! Lol!

Jls-

Just checking in on you again....and please, I don't find the fact that you learned from my mistakes remotely offensive....I'm glad someone learned from that Plan B mess I made LMAO!!!!! It was sorta like a car accident, wasn't it???? You know you shouldn't watch.....but you just can't help it LOL!!!

Omigosh....advice is funny that way isn't it?? It's soooooo hard to take and sooooo easy to give <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know exactly what you mean, that is why I generally reserve my comments...excluding the part of MB that I'm particularly adept at.....which is Plan A and snooping LOL!!!!! I will advise people on that, for whatever that is worth. I won't however comment on Plan B....not very much anyway, I WILL point out when I see a WS kicking and screaming that it's a GOOD sign, and stuff like that, but far be it for me to comment on something I so obviously suck at. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am still fighting the good fight.....it's an uphill battle a lot of days, but I'm having good days too.....lots better than before, so I can't complain <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-Caren

P.S. I'm sorry, this is a minor threadjack, but NC Walker.....*Sigh*

SS,



Yes, I went to see his counselor last week, just 1X. That was by myself, we now have an appointment together Friday.

My 1st impression was, "oh great, another mediocre counselor." We shall see. I gave her a brief synopsis. She DID catch on that I was not entirely happy, or rather I wa unfulfilled with the M BEFORE the "incident". She pegged that one!

Dewt said something on another thread about recovering from the A and then having the same old, or worse, relationship. Needs going unmet, etc. That filled him with dread. Sheesh, ME TOO!!!

That is one reason why I have not given into his pleas to move back. I not only think that he is untrustworthy in the one way, but I do not trust him to meet my needs, or help make this M "work"!! And he has given no indication that he "gets" any of it!

CSue, Thanks and I am seriously considering giving Steve Harley a call 2moro and make at least one appt. for me, if H doesn't want any part in it. I am still too confused, and the money doesn't scare ME as much as possibly making the biggest mistake - either way!

Caren, Thanks too. I am really sorry about your job. Hope you told your H. Can't help but agree with TA and LM in a way. Your H doesn't sound like the greatest thing, even before sliced bread. And that is not even counting the A. I have to think that you should be able to count on him for his support!! Withdrawal, pshaw! He doesn't sound like he is into the whole dynamics of family! Well, enuf about you. I don't know what you meant by "NCWalker, *sigh*", but you should probably know, NCW dates Fabio ! ;^) -sorry, I'Ville joke- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all your replies, and Don't stop now, people! I really need advice on how to get the most from 1-2 sessions with Steve Harley, as that might be all I get!

jls

Your 1st session w/Steve w/b more of a fact finding mission for him. But if you pay attention, Steve will give you something in return that w/b very helpful. You may not see it right away but pay attention.

We had only 1 session with Steve but it was enough to punch a hole through the fog that eventually played a part in tearing the A apart. Not right away but the seed of A destruction was planted. I will be forever gratefult to Steve for that help.

Your WS says he wants time. Let him have it. At his parents house. Your home is your sancutary. A WS who needs time should not be allowed back as a WS. Trust me, mamy of us BS made that mistake and all it did was bring prolonged grief and it was our fault because we let those pitiful WS' back and gave them time which they used to enable the A. In other words, we were duped to enable the A and meet some of their needs.

Does that make you feel used or what?!??!?!

L.

go with steve...period....fond a way. best money you'll ever spend.

hey how about suggesting he do a pollygraph for the fun of it...lol. the look on his face and actions will tell ya something without even having to do it...lol

BUMPITY bump-bump-bb-bbump!! just like the road i am on...

NOW, gonna try to get some DARN work done!!

Will bump again later if necessary -fair warning folks