And what might that be?

I agree he could be being mean and vindictive or it could be something else... only he knows.

I know I found talking about the details of the affair helped me in healing a lot of the pain and hurt I had. And sometimes strangers were easier to talk to than people more familiar with my situation. IMO keeping pain inside does you no good. Could that be what he was trying to do, express his pain?

Miker

Very possible. Thanks for the different perspective.

In the long run, did it really help you? If your W had been repentant and you were patching up, would you have done the same?

Low

Most WS's at the time of exposure are half out of their minds with grief, fear, anger and pain. And if the WS has been lying to them than their sanity has been badly shaken.

They are not thinking in strategy. They are merely trying to survive the pain, in minutes, in hours and in ungodly long nights.

And the future is way too painful to even consider, if they are one of the lucky ones.

Yes I think it definitely did help ME. Not WW and definitely not US.

If my WW was repentant and we were patching up (which wasn't my case at all) I my approach would have done harm to US and made things much more difficult. It really would be a balancing act between personal healing and trying protect your WS from hurt. But when your hurting so bad its hard to protect the person that has caused it.... tough call...

Miker

Although I do understand your point Low.

If a WS is fortunate to have this board before they start going nuts than yes, they need to be able to read threads like these to help them make good choices.

I agree with you on so many points but if you wanted to retain your privacy then you should not have shared with another man's wife, you should have kept it private.

How he reacted was probably out of pure survival, he probably was in THAT much pain.

Well, Low, I think it is simply because you, a former WS, made the statement and for some of us that puts a certain "spin" on it. I don't think this would have progressed in the same manner had a BS like myself suggested the same thing.

I completely agree with what you originally stated, BTW. I did not expose my husband to many people because I didn't need to. But geez, Louise, OWH ranted like a lunatic to everyone but the three-year-old down the block. Not only did I think this was humiliating to OW, it was definitely not helpful to recovering their marriage.

Tactical exposure to end the affair is helpful. Screaming out to every one who'll listen that your WW or WH is a dispicable piece of rancid meat is damaging. (And please, people, don't ask if it is more damaging than the affair itself.)

Supporting my point (and I think yours) that there is a right way and a wrong way to expose is this: the OWH continued to bad-mouth his wife to everyone for months afterward, long after he could claim d-day trauma was to blame. I talked to him once and told him to knock it off, that his wife was really trying to make amends and she was doing all the right things (yes, I actually defended OW!). That shut him up. Their marriage did not start to improve until he stopped these stupid tirades. Our recovery, on the other hand, began taking root on day 1.

~ Snow

Hi Lo,

I think you are doing a great job. Thanks for hanging around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And fwiw, one of my deal breakers (as a BS) for reconciliation would have been 'public knowledge' (via WH, OP, or OPS). My private humiliation was quite enough. If we D'd, then ok, who cares, he's a clod, he's immature, his loss, spin, spin. But I cant imagine staying AND living with it publically. My issue, many deep inferences, of course.

And I know someone mentioned Shame and true recovery above, but I dont think I could get around this. I could not/did not use Exposure as a tool. I'd leave first - Dru

Heck, I'm ashamed that HE knows how badly I was treated. I hate the MC knowing...

Low:
(Hey at least you seem to get "activity" on your threads). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

In the sterile environment of a message board, I concur with much of your posting.

However, we all have to acknowledge that when Extreme emotions are involved, the dynamics of the "clinical" setting are many times out the window.

But yes, exposer is a tool that can (like any other) cause Harm as well as Good.

With that said,
(and the difficulty we encounter many times here) with getting newer BS to EVEN take the First Steps of Exposer ......if the A is ONGOING , then I would rather see possibly too much exposer .....then the opposite side of NONE!

Sadly Too many BS are frightened (frozen like deer in the head lights) into total INACTION & doing "nothing".

Which, IMO is one of the biggest mistakes made Here.
[I too was guilty of this early on].

In addition, there are other reasons BS expose --- (other than JUST ending the A).

I know I ended up exposing to My Dr. (for health reasons) ....he insisted ON A REASON for my wanting STD testing.
So he got MORE than he bargained for, I guess.

Even more so,
I exposed to some individuals Just so I could Find a small measure of Support and understanding. (Which I desperately needed at the time).

When this happens,
IMO its unreasonable to assume that "details" won't be shared (even if they are 3rd parties).
Of course when I said my W is having an A ....[They were Both concerned & interested] so the Natural questions of Who, when, where, How long, how do I know, ect,... were asked.

Then since I was the one bringing them into this, I answered.

Of course, I don't recommend taking out a newspaper ad or Other extreme. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I am a proponent of "controlled" and levels of exposer.
Start small and progressively make a wider and wider sweep (until the A either ends OR you've done all you can).

I won't say that vengeful exposer is helpful in the aftermath, but I will say I understand why someone would feel a need to do so at the time.

So even if TOO much exposer makes Recovery more difficult, I'd rather see "that outcome" Than NO Recovery to get to AT all.

If that is the path they choose, well then like the WS ....they'll have consequences for doing so.

I understand your desire to Warn them away from taking this action you feel is a mistake.
Your just trying to Help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Hey, you can always try ...some will get it & some won't.
Just like some Need to and some don't.
Its always a mixed bag.
Stay strong Low.

LO, I think that many find this thread troubling because it has been instigated by a WS who seems to have a subtle chip on his shoulder. That may be an unfair interpretation, but the initial post did have a provocative undertone. It has since moved onto higher ground, but have you considered that you might yourself be provoking indignation for unconscious reasons of your own, and doing so under the guise of a serious discussion? I think that's what's being picked up on.

Exposure beyond the immediate circle, and even after the breaking off of the A, can be useful. I exposed details to H's family, after the end of the A, as a scorched-earth policy to reduce H's ability to make use of an enabling environment. Several members of H's family had been exposed to OW4, but had allowed themselves to turn a blind eye. By telling them explicitly what had been going on (and listening to their earnest denials of knowledge), I ensured that they would not again be able to see H in the company of another woman and claim it was innocent. In many ways, I wish I had been brave enough to expose to a wider audience, so that H would know he would be suspected any time he was in the 'innocent' company of a woman who wasn't me.

TogetherAlone

Low,

I sure didn't mean to aim any bad feelings towards you. I love reading your stuff, and you help to keep things in perspective so many times around here.

This board needs you and your perspective.

Didn't mean anything derogatory towards you, but I have the perspective of the betrayed, and I am sure it often shows...too much.

Ok well I read the 1st and 5th pages so pardon me for missing a few thoughts but here's mine....hope that's ok. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Exposure can be over and underdone. Either will have adverse effects. Then again the 'perfect' exposure (if there is very such a thing) can still have adverse effects.

Bottom line is that exposure is done to fill a need. C/b BS need, emotional need, safety need, protection need, financial need, medical need, etc.

A WS or even Xws will never like t/b exposed. Who would? Even in the fog, a WS & OP hate exposure. It reveals their true identity (WS and OP), makes the secrecy of their A now look and feel dirty. The fun of the A is blown away. Now it is more of a scramble to keep tha A than a challenge. No more adventure, more like A recovery mode, which in itself is a sick thought. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Is there ever too much exposure? C/b. Depends from whose standpoint you are viewing it from. No one will ever completely agree as to the amount.

As for those BS' who have to tell all to all, well it is a fact that even BS' need help in dealing with exposing. The hurt can make a BS take a step down in their level of thinking and exposing becomes a crutch. I can certainly atest to that fact. I wanted everyone to know what a jerk the WS was. I probably told more than I should have to more than I should have. Heck, I posted here to total strangers for over 4 years. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> My H now feels some of you all know me better than he does. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Will there be abuse from too much exposure? Yea probably. What's a WS to do? Nothing. That is the least of what a WS deserves. What about an Xws? Well an Xws would understand a bit but probably still get more upset than they should have. Why? Because if an Xws stays as an Xws too long, the BS' taker gets neglected. An Xws is still a WS of sorts, just not as bad.

When the Xws turns into the spouse? How about exposure at that time? It could happen. The spouse should by then understand that as a recovered spouse, the A is part of the factual history that may be brought up at any time. That is one of the consquences the Xws/spouse must live with for the rest of their lives. Small price to pay for being allowed back into their families though.

JMHO,
L.

Something I've been thinking about.

Can there be adverse effects for the A if the A partners expose it themselves?

WH and OW moved straight in together and lost no time in telling MIL and FIL about their new relationship. They were down visiting them within a month.

MIL and FIL are, I must point out, appalled by their son's behaviour, and are being wonderfully supportive of me. MIL tries to talk sense to WH whenever she can.

WH and OW also 'exposed' to OW's parents, though doubtless they told them that I was some kind of psychopath and that I left him etc etc. I have since sent them a letter explaining the truth of the matter - that WH actually abandoned his wife and children to live in a septic lovenest with their daughter (chose my words more carefully than that, though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

WH and OW are only concerned about keeping their A secret from their Catholic school, where they are both teachers. I have exposed here. But within our families, WH and OW told about the A themselves (albeit from their own warped POV).

Don't know if this will be good for them or not. They are both very keen for their R to be seen by everyone (except their school) as not an affair, but a 'proper' relationship. WH has actually said to MIL: 'Surely Alphin must know by now that this is much more than just an affair'.

Will this desire for openness help or hinder them? I don't know.

Alph.

I'm a BS but I never once wanted to expose the affair to just anyone. I was too horrified myself.
Don't think I didn't want to get revenge on OW - of course I did (and secretly still do). But I decided from the beginning what a scumbag she was and I never, ever, ever wanted to be as trashy as her.

And the person who actually betrayed me was my H.

I have never felt comfortable about spitting out damaging remarks about the OW (she was married also), because you cant get away from the fact that your partner has to take 50% of the blame too!

It does take two to Tango, as they say.


Oh, and I believe in Karma.

Hope

Has been an interesting discussion that's revealed a lot about where people are in recovery, or that people aren't in recovery at all.

I'm sorry if I come across as having a "chip". The only perspective I have any familiarity with is that of the WS.

An attitude that's often demonstrated here that I try to help with is one where the BS assumes they already know what's right, who's right, and who has the right to feel what about anything.

All too often I share what I felt about about things only to be told "No, you were in the fog...you really felt like this..." by people who don't have any idea. So many stumble in the dark looking for answers, then when they get one, they don't like it or find it offensive.

A FWS should not have to live the rest of their relationship with their tail tucked between their legs. If you call that a "chip", that's fine. Once the A is over, recovery can only start when BOTH parties are willing to acknowledge each other's feelings as valid. Too, often, I see the attitude that a WS's feelings shouldn't matter because of what they did. I see that some think the FWS deserve any and all abuse they receive from a BS in the name of allowing the BS to heal.

I think this is unhealthy.

It is in the BS and family's best interest to restore your FWS to a place of honor and respect as quickly as possible. This doesn't mean sweeping issues under the rug, but dealing with them. If your FWS has feeling about being unfairly embarrassed by something you exposed, it's in your best interest to acknowledge their hurt and talk through it rather than take the opportunity to remind them that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I'm quite aware that the BS is often out of control initially because of the pain. However, there are MANY who come here exhibiting a great deal of control seeking advice about their next step. When they are at this point, they have a chance to avoid making the mistakes that come with being driven by pain and fear.

The motives behind an action often make it easier to understand why an action occurs, but frequently have no effect at all on mitigation of the consequence of that action. Whether or not someone hurts another out of blind pain, simple neglect, or cooly calculated revenge does nothing to change the outcome of that action.

It is the outcomes we seek to optimize. An adverse action driven by the pain and fear of betrayal may be understandable, but that doesn't justify it.

It was earlier implied that I was trying to make the BS into a "bad guy" by proposing that there are things they could do differently or better. That's not my intent at all. All I know is that my wife was very successful in restoring me to a place of respect and honor. I know the things the she did and didn't do that worked. I offer that to these boards because they are largely populated by the BS. The only person the BS can control is the BS...so, we talk about things YOU can do to save your marriage.

I've realized a secondary (but important) function here is helping the BS process the pain.

I'll never, ever pretend to be able to help you with that because I simply cannot empathize - I've not been there. I would guess that most BS would find it offensive if I even tried to say I understood. I don't.

So, the only thing I have to offer BS's is advice about how I responded to my W's actions. I think she did a pretty darn good job. I'm proud of her...and thankful.

Wouldn't you like for your FWS to eventually come to the same place?

If LowOrbit was my WS, I woulda taken out a BILLBOARD! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Melody,

If I don't get some feedback over my WH's school exposure, I'm doing it! Billboard, leaflets dropped from a plane, an ad in the Times.

Oh yes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

KEWL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mel, all I would've asked is that any photographs have been taken from the LEFT...it's my best profile...