Thanks, Dorry. It all make sense ... very good sense.

Does inspiring him to change simply mean that I should just keep on improving even though I don’t see any responses? If so, how long should I wait? Two years or longer like what everyone says? I’ve already endured this for so many years, I don’t think I can do it for 2 more years! What can/should I really expect??

BS can be affected in may ways. Your BH seems to be running from the problems in your relationship : All of them. Food and habits are our comforts when we are hurt and clueless. With your H, comfort eating makes him feel like he did when Mom gave him pie to make him feel better as a kid perhaps; also a focus on pornography where women are predictable and having multiple sex partners doen't matter, unlike in you rmarriage and teh 'real world'.
And work where he isn't a cuckold, and his view of his own self worth and maculinity is still intact.

My interpretations may be wrong, but can you SEE how his regression to type may be a continuation of a problem denial mechanism he had BEFORE your affair ?

I have no skills to address your Hs issues, andI suspect neiter do you, but you owe him patience BUT do not avoid conflict. If you care for him you should gently persist in love to ask him why he does what he does.

It sounds like he needs some professional counselling. I think getting him there should be your first priority.

regarding "should you keep on improving" why wouldn't you do that REGARDLESS of the outcome of your recovery ?

All blessings

Then you need to apply some of the HNHN guidelines. Practice the same methodology with on subjects with a lessor impact.

example:

Scenario: Whisper needs help putting a shelf up in the bathroom.

Whisper: H, I am going to the store to get a shelf for the bathroom, any suggestions?

H: Why?

Whisper: We need the space and I saw one that would fit just perfect. I'd be open to other suggestions or you can go look at it with me. I'd really like that.

H: I am busy at work.

Whisper: Ok. (note: no details).

H: What store are you going to?

Whisper: Home Depot

H: I like Lowe's better.

Whisper: Did you see a shelf there that would fit?

H: No.

Whisper: Wanna go and check it out for us?

H: I am busy at work.

Whisper: Ok.

H: When are you doing to Lowes?

Whisper: Not sure. (by now u r probably getting annoyed....keep your cool). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

H: Well I can go by Lowes after work. Want to meet me there?

Whisper: If you throw in dinner @ Chevy's. (tempt his tummy...remember about a way to a man's heart?)

H: Hm.... ok.

There u go. Got yourself a date, some couple time and a shelf shopping.

That's a sample. BTW, Lowe's and Chevy's are near my house. LOL!!!

JMHO,
L.

Orchid - thats really clever!

I think my experience is similar, so in case its helpful...



It was many months post dday before I felt like I really had any idea what H was feeling and thinking about my A. I would ask and he would say, he was feeling 'nothing' or he was feeling 'empty'. He also went through a period of saying he wasn't in any pain or wasn't thinking about it at all. I think his way of dealing with something so major was to initially push it away and to withdraw.

I had no idea what to do. I got advice from BHs on here to keep trying a sort of reverse plan A, work on myself, apologise completely and fully at any time the A came up, and look after myself.

I guess we didn't really start working on the M until 8 months past dday, when we started MC. Until then I was recovering in myself, with an IC and books. I was patient and present for H but had little expectations of needs being filled. I asked anyway, and accepted it when he said no sometimes. Now we are 14 months post dday and things are improving considerably. Our M is much better than it was, we communicate better and are much more respectful and gentle with each other.

I have grown a lot through IC and all of the relationship and personal development books I have read. H agrees that he much prefers the person I am now to the person I was pre-A. Me too!

H is still recovering though, and there are times he can't contribute much to our M. Who knows how long it will take? I can't focus on that. It is not under my control. I can only focus on improving myself, including establishing boundaries for resolving conflicts. If H can't yet always fill my ENs, I fill them myself or spend time with friends or family. I have quite a good life! Making opportunities for fun things (weekends away etc) have been very important in our R.

The purpose is to to have the most fulfilling, happy, and rewarding life you can by becoming the best whisper you can be. FOr your sake.

Smur,

Your case is closer to whisper's. I was just giving a HnHn Orchid version. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Your H's are dealing with the A in an avoiding stance. It is hard. Makes more work on a recovery xWS than s/b. Even though I believe the Xws s/b doing most of the recovery work.

Glad to see you are both doing well. Seems like when your H withdrew, you felt compelled to pursue?

There are a lot of BS H's who could use your insight.

Thanks for helping whisper.

L.

Dear Whisper, you’re welcome and please don’t think so negatively about yourself my friend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You are a WORTHY PERSON and you’ve made SO many good changes during the past few months... And you've made these changes not only for your H, but also for yourself. It’s okay to have problems and struggles Whisper and it is not expected of you to handle everything in life perfectly. Life is a learning school and it requires time and patience...also with yourself.

Whisper, please know I feel very proud of you in spite of the difficulties & problems you currently experience and I’m sure many others here thinks the same... Just look at all the people who care and all the great support and advice you receive! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You have no reason to feel like a failure Whisper... Problems, difficult & struggles are part of life and it is NOT the existence of problems, struggles etc. in your life which determine if you’re worthy or not. You are worthy in spite of these things!

Whisper, maybe it will help you to look at the bigger picture and view the obstacles and struggles in your life as things to help you grow, learn and develop throughout life.

I don't have advice for your current situation Whisper (others have already done a good job with that) so thought I would lift your spirit a bit and give you some moral support! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hugs, thoughts, prayers and blessings to you,
Suzet

Bob - My H just called to ask about the IC's phone #. Maybe he's going to call today?? Please keep your fingers crossed for me!!

Orchid - Good suggestion. Make sense.

Smur - Thanks for sharing. It helps to know I'm not alone w/ this. You're right. I need to work on me and hope that he'll catch up. I just hope it won't be too long. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Suzet - Thank you. You have a way of making me feel better about any situation.

Also, just to let everyone know. I'm not giving up on this. This week was a set back, but I'm going to keep plow through.

Wish me luck ... and thanks to everyone for your great advice, encouragement and support!!!!!

Many hugs,

This sound good - keep it up Whisper! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> How are you now after the weekend?

whisper - I'm happy to hear that things are a bit better. Have you read on the Dear Peggy site? She has a graph of recovery that is basically a very zig-zagged line heading in an upward direction. I think of that a lot if I am having a bad day!

Orchid - yes, I think I definitely pursued when H withdrew. Which was probably not for the best. I need to work on more acceptance. Allowing him to do what he needs to for recovery in his own way, not judging or 'helping', while still respecting and caring for myself, and drawing boundaries. Being totally open with him about my feelings and my new self-knowledge. I am slowly learning.

Suzet –

This past weekend was terrific ... we had dinner out with some friends on Friday and my H took me to a romantic evening out to dinner and an upscaled blues/jazz club. Couldn’t have been more superb.

Then, Sunday hit. (I'm really starting to hate Sundays.) If you recall, my H had suggested that we schedule a weekly pow-wow to review our progress and set goals/activities that will keep us moving in the right direction. Well, we did just that. One of our tasks was to complete all of Harley's MB questionnaires and go over them. Even though I noticed my H didn't complete his until the last minute and didn't bother reading the explanations at the top of each page so as to answer the questions appropriately, I didn't say anything. I thought he, at least, did complete them. So, we started by going through the Personal History Questionnaire, each taking turns answering a section at a time so that we can clarify or answer any questions the other had.

The one thing that really stuck out was his sexual history. I guess I'm very sensitive to this part, since I know he was/is still “using” pornography. During our discussion, he admitted that he's had some sexual exploits in the past that were pretty intense and "adventurous." At the time, I didn't think much of it until the next day. What didn't make any sense is why he was so open and adventurous with sex with other girls but not me? And, the worst part is feeling that perhaps I drove him to pornography somehow. Unfortunately, I spent most of the day yesterday (Monday) obsessing about this, and, when he got home, I brought it up. He automatically became defensive and angry. After a couple of hours, we finally made up, went out for a nice drive and grabbed a quick dinner. Everything seemed peachy again until we got back to the house. As you know, we’re still separated. So, when we pulled up, my H became edgy, and I didn’t understand why. He asked me what I wanted to do and said “I guess I don’t mind if you want to stay.” What kind of comment was that? I became indignant and left, but I felt something was amiss. What was really strange was his behavior triggered something that happened over 13 years ago! When we were dating in college, he cheated on me once with an ex-girlfriend and lied about it. I almost forgot about it until something in his words & behavior triggered that memory. I tried to ignore it and left.

As usual, he called me around 9:30 (his bedtime) to tell me good night. Said he was tired and was crawling in bed. Again, I detected something was amiss, so I decided to drive out and see if my instincts were right. When I got there, all the lights in the house were on, so I walked in and immediately knew he was in the basement. When he heard me come in, he quickly turned off his computer and flipped the monitor. I was shocked! Of all things, I didn’t expect this – considering we just had a fight about it less than 2 hours ago! Then, it finally dawned on me … that my H was absolutely, unequivocally addicted to pornography! Even though many at MB had warned me about it, I guess I never fully understood it (or simply ignored it) until last night. Just like how I was when I was in my A, he was willing to give up our marriage for his addiction!

What was really naïve of me is my thinking that my A would give him the wake-up call he needed to “kick the habit.” Shortly therafter, my H came over, bringing both of his computers saying that he wants me to keep them until he’s able to overcome this. He asked if we could go for a walk. As we talked, I realized I was hearing the same B.S. that I was dishing out for the past 1.5 years … except for the fact that his addiction has lasted 8 years and is still there! And, all this time I thought we weren’t having SF b/c “it” just goes away after a while. Hate to bring up old history, but that’s also why it was quite perplexing that the OM (even after 1.5 years) still wanted SF all the time.

Suzet, I’m so lost I don’t know what to do!!! Like Dorry said, I’m so scared that things will revert back to how things were. BTW – it turns out that my H hasn’t exactly kicked his computer gaming addictions either. Just like his use of pornography, he just waits until I’m gone. And, he just admitted last night that he’s also addicted to eating. (I didn’t even know there was such a thing.)

What the h*ll is going on here?!! What happened to the good-looking, out-going, fun-loving, intelligent man that I married???? Was he always like this, and I just didn’t (or refuse to) see it? I know we got married young and very quickly (after 8 months), but we were already living together, so you’d think I would’ve seen these things. Maybe I just didn’t want to see, so I didn’t? Is love truly that blind?

And, most importantly, what do I do now?? I’m so frightened. Again, Dorry is right - I just didn’t want to admit it … I don’t trust myself. I’m afraid that I’ll miss the attention and long for the physical intimacy that’s been lost for so long and look elsewhere (again) for that love. Now, instead of the passionate love that I started to feel for my H again, I’m left feeling disgusted, sad, cheated … and very lonely and afraid.

The good news is we’re going to see our MC today. Unfortunately, I’m not as optimistic about things as I was. I equate things w/ my A, which lasted 1.5 years and is still plaguing me after 3+ months. What can I expect from an addiction that lasted 8+ years??

Can anyone please help and shed some light on this? Please??

Whisp - I always got the idea you were a confident woman who liked to get out and do things.

What you really need to do is find other things that can make you happy besides a man. Seriously - i found out i was so dependent on H to make me happy - that when we had our problems in recovery and he was distant and not changing, I wsa feeling like you. What I discovered is while H and i can be in a loving relationship that makes us both happy, and enjoy eachother's company, etc - it is NOT my H's responsibility to make me happy. It's a perk of the relationship...

So when he can't make me happy - I can't turn to another man who makes me feel happy - did that, been there - big mistake...so what can I do?

KEEP working on yourself - find things that do make you happy - running, skiing, pottery, reading, a woman's group, singing - I don't know - something. Start to hang around with other woman and get out for a ladies dinner and movie night - this companionship is healthy and can keep your spirits up.

Your H is in a rut - he is feeling all sorts of feelings and falling back to his old habits of addiction - and yes there is a food addiction - it's why some overweight people have problems' loosing weight - they eat to escape from problems.

BUt you need to be patient - gently encourage and help your husband to seek solutions to his problems, but continue to seek solution to yours. Don't put that added pressure on your H of being the one who HAS to make you happy.

The reason I say this is even when you recover...all marriages have ups and downs...what if H gets sick, or depressed, or has to work away sometime down the future, and you are still dependent on him to make you happy...what will happen when he can't meet that need for a temporary period of time...your weakness will be exposed and you won't know what to do.......fix that weakness now.

I am glad H admits he has some problems, perhaps continue to gently persuade him to go to IC. Or offer him other things to do with his time with you. The addictions are escape behaviors - make it as comforable in the house as possible when you are around, and encourage time with you...This way he has less and less reasons to "escape".

Whisper,

I can hear how painful this must be to you. You asked :



From an outsider's perspective, I would say, yes, he has always been like this. It must be extremely painful to think that you haven't seen this. Could it be that your A was partly about escaping from this painful knowledge and pretending it wasn't true?

BUT (and there is a big but!!)



I think this is also true. He is also and has always been this person.

I found a lot of promise in your post because your H obviously realises he has a problem. This is very important!! IMO, most people in the world do not think they have any problems. I think everyone has at least some dysfunctional ways of dealing with their problems. You and I had As. Others have alcohol, working, shouting, blaming, distancing, gambling....etc...

As I see it, the issue is whether or not we are aware of our dysfunctional coping methods and, if they affect the rest of our lives badly, we try and find ways to overcome them. Your H sounds like he is trying that first step. He has ackowledged he needs help to overcome his addiction.
How much are you able to step back and let him try and fix himself? I don't think that means you give up all rights to leave the M if, after givign him plenty of time, you cannot see any progress.

I think that means that you focus on making yourself happy, as D pointed out. Did you read BR's detachment with love thread?

PS - as an aside about dysfunctional coping - I have some work to do today that I am avoiding by posting to you....

I am editing because I wanted to add that I didn't ignore your feeligns of beign terribly afraid. I have felt that too, often. I think it comes from realising that we are truly powerless when it comes to other people. In all honesty, there is NOTHING we can do to change them. Its very scary. That does not mean that they won't change. They might. But if they do, it won't be through anything we do or don't do. The best we can do is be true to ourselves and keep growing and learning.

Whisper...

If you need an ear, I'm here. If you need a friend, I'm here. If you want to vent, I'm here. It hurts to see your pain. Maybe there there is reason... maybe god has a reason for this. Who knows... But I want you to "know"... I'm here for you.

Undo

Dorry - I do have many things that I'm a part of and am fairly independent. I'm on a competitive women's tennis league that plays 3 days a week, I was volunteering at a local animal rescue center, I was going out with my girlfriends frequently, I'd walk, jog, read books or watch sports when I'm by myself - and I love it! Once recovery began, many of these activities stopped - not b/c I wanted them to, but b/c my H wanted me to spend more time w/ him. But, he only wants it on his own terms, doing the things he wants to do (which is basically sitting around the house and watching sci-fi or violent movies that don't interest me whatsoever). Last week he bought tickets to a rock concert but then wasted them b/c he chose to work late, so I just sat at home, all made up waiting for him all night. And, no, he didn't HAVE to work late - he just thought he'd set a good example for his team. If I seem bitter, that's b/c I am. I've gone through this for 8 years, and I just don't know how much more I can take.

Smur - Yes, the fact that my H actually realized he has a problem is a big step for him. This is also why I'm willing to stick it out - with hopes that THIS time will be different from all others. As I said to my H earlier today, I will stick around until either things improve or I am completely void of all hope, love and self-respect. And, if it came to that and I leave, I will know that I leave in good conscience and that there will be no regrets.

Dear Whisper,

(((HUGS)))

Just to let you know I have read your posts and updates. I don’t have much time right now and I’m not around on these boards for the rest of today and tomorrow, but I want you to know that I’m still keeping you in my thoughts and prayers during this painful & difficult time…

I will post to you again on Friday or after the weekend.

In the meantime, please take care of yourself...
Suzet

I don't have any advice, just know I'm praying for you and your husband's healing of pornography and marriage.

{{Hugs}}

Undo/Suzet/Kds,

Thank you very much. You don't know how much it means to me to know that there are caring people like you that I can lean on. I do feel very alone right now, b/c this is one topic I cannot bring up to my close friends and family. My therapy group and my friends on MB are all I've got.

Thanks again,

Dear Whisper, I want to share something inspirational & encouraging with you today. I have also posted it on my ”Encouraging poems, prayers and stories” thread, but while I was reading it this morning, I thought it would be perfect to specifically share this one with YOU today. I hope it will help to uplift your spirit and give you something positive and encouraging to take into the weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Here it is:

[color:"purple"] BEGINNING TODAY

Beginning today…
I will no longer worry about yesterday.
It is in the past and the past will never change.
Only I can change by choosing to do so.

Beginning today…
I will no longer worry about tomorrow.
Tomorrow will always be there,
waiting for me to make most of it.
But I cannot make the most of tomorrow,
without first making the most of today.

Beginning today…
I will look in the mirror and I will see a person
worthy of my respect and admiration.
This capable person looking back at me is
someone I enjoy spending time with
and someone I would like to get to know better.

Beginning today…
I will cherish each moment of my life.
I value the gift bestowed upon me in this world
and I will unselfishly share this gift with others.

Beginning today…
I will take a moment to step off the beaten path
and to revel in the mysteries I encounter.
I will face challenges with courage and determination.
I will overcome what barriers there may be
which hinder my quest for growth and self-improvement.

Beginning today…
I will take life one day at a time, one step at a time…
Discouragement will not be allowed to taint my positive self-image,
my desire to succeed or my capacity to love.

Beginning today…
I walk with renewed faith in human kindness.
Regardless of what has gone before.
I believe there is hope for a brighter and better future.

Beginning today…
I will open my mind and my heart.
I will welcome new experiences.
I will meet new people.
I will not expect perfection from myself nor anyone else:
Perfection does not exist in an imperfect world.
But I will applaud the attempt to overcome human foibles.

Beginning today…
I am responsible for my own happiness
and I will do things that make me happy…
admire the beautiful wonders of nature;
listen to my favourite music;
pet a kitten of a puppy;
soak in a bubble bath…
Pleasure can be found in the most simple of gestures.

Beginning today…
I will learn something new;
I will try something different;
I will savour all the various flavours life has to offer.
I will change what I can and the rest I will let go.
I will strive to become the best me I can possibly be.[/color]

Whisper, I want to encourage you to also read my prayers, poems and stories thread I've referred to above. There are many other inspirational stuff you will find helpfull.

Hugs, thoughts and prayers,
Suzet