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Oh, AGG, welcome to the pantheon of poets! Poets, philosopers ans scientists have asked this question and fumbled the answer for eons.

Let's look at Harley's ENs:

1 Affection
2 Sexual Fulfillment
3 Conversation
4 Recreational Companionship
5 Honesty and Openness
6 Physical Attractiveness
7 Financial Support
8 Domestic Support
9 Family Commitment
10 Admiration

Now, is it true that your lover meeting these needs constitutes love? If you think so, consider that my cats can meet only #1 and yet, IU still love them. Consider the man dying of cancer, completely debilitated, confined to bed and near death. He can't meet any of these needs and yet, his wife still love him. I think Harley's idea is a good first approximation of the conditions needed for love to bloom between two people and I think he's dead-on right that one must meet one's mate's ENs unselfishly in order to keep love alive, but we cannot use it by itself as a definition of love.

My FWB meets all but 7, 8 and 9 of Harley's ENs. It wouldn't be approriate for her to be meeting these anyway. After all, she isn't my wife, so even if ours were a romantic relationship, she still shouldn't be meeting these.

I don't think you are understanding something funamental about me, AGG. It isn't that I cannot love this woman, but rather I choose not to. I am not ready to love again and I know this to the bottom of my heart. So I will not allow myself to love. It most assuredly is possible to keep yourself from falling in love. You have to have a lot of self-knowledge and discipline, but it isn't that hard to do.

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[color:"blue"] I had a FWB relationship once in my early 20's and once in my late 20's.

I was disappointed when my FWB in my early 20's found a love interest. I guess for a brief time I wondered what I was lacking because he chose someone else over me. So in retrospect, I guess I had begun to develop some feelings for him, but not strong ones. Perhaps attributable to the fact that we had sexual encounters maybe 3 times and saw each other even as friends infrequently during that time.

Then my second FWB relationship happened in my late 20's. The guy was like checkurheart - he told me up front that he didn't want or need love - never said or would say the words and had no intentions of remarrying. I took him at his word even though his actions for the year we were together were more like those of a boyfriend. Eventually I met the man that would become my husband and broke it off with my FWB. During the year that we saw each other I think I went through a process that allowed me to divorce myself from my feelings for him. A couple of times I remember being upset over something then forcing myself to realize that there were no real ties in this relationship and he could do what he wanted... Anyway, two weeks after the breakup, he called me and begged me to give him another chance. He told me that he had changed his mind about everything and was in love with me.

Must of have snuck up on him. :P

V.[/color]

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I've never had a FWB, but from all the forums I've read and responses to this type of question, the most common answer is that most of these relationships end up with one person developing stronger feelings than those of just friendship.


~Big Guy

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Still working on my TAKER.
Looking for the one who'll hold my hand at 85.
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the most common answer is that most of these relationships end up with one person developing stronger feelings than those of just friendship


Although I've never posted on this board, I did want to share that it's not always the case stated above.

It's very possible, and actually can be a very rewarding experience.

It should never be entered into unless both partners are REALLY clear on boundaries and expectations.

You both have to be in a really good place emotionally.

I had a FWB for quite awhile. It wasn't always like that, we actually dated exclusively at one point for a very brief time, but decided that just wasn't the way to go for us. I dated other people, he dated other people. It worked.

There was an emotional attachment, but not what I'd refer to as romantic. I think there's a clear difference there.

We're both M now, we're still best friends. We never had the would've, could've, should've and never regressed once we moved on to more serious relationships, are happily M to our spouses, and have no regrets.

Probably one of the best relationships I ever had.

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"We're both M now, we're still best friends. We never had the would've, could've, should've and never regressed once we moved on to more serious relationships, are happily M to our spouses, and have no regrets. "

You got it! If it's done right, by the right people and for the right reasons, and not simply used as a backdoor way into a romantic relationship, there will probably never be anything to regret, even if id doesn't. Can we say this about the other relationships we've failed at?

Of course, I've been told in another thread that I am immoral for having one of these relationships. So perhaps I should regret my profound lack of morality. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

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"Of course, I've been told in another thread that I am immoral for having one of these relationships. So perhaps I should regret my profound lack of morality. " <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Check, you apparantly cannot stand the fact that someone would say that they believe your actions are immoral. So much for the tolerance of beliefs and opinions that you preach so passionately...

Funny how it's expected of others but not of yourself. I'm sure you cannot even see how very intolerant snd disrespectful YOU are.


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Yours is a completely false statment, FHL. I allow people to hold whatever beliefs they want to hold and I don't criticize them. However, I have found that fudamentalist Christians think they have some sort of right to prostyletize everywhere they go and interject their minority belief system on the rest of us. We are bombarded constantly by it. When you call them on it even politely, they go off on some rant filled with chapter and verse quote (usually taken completely out of context) and call down the fire and brimestone and evoke a wrathful God that Jesus came to tell us doesn't exist.

If someone wants to tell me that one of my actions is immoral and tell me why using something beyone "my Bible tells me so" I will happily and repectfully listen ande give their advice careful consideration.

No Christian will ever convince me that I am immoral simply because I will, under certain carefully considered circumstance, engage in mutually consentual sex outside of the confines of marriage. I do not try to force this belief system on anyone, or even attempt to get them to accept it. If others they consider it immoral because of the teaching of their particular faith, they are welcome to hold that view and I will support their right to do so. This is the essense of religious tolerance upon which this nation was built -- a tolerence that is waning in this day of conservative fundamentalism. By that same token, I demand that they repect my belief system and not try to force theirs on me. If I am wrong in my beliefs, then that is a private matter between God and me. That spiritual relationship is private and is not for you or anyone else ever to question.

I have striven all my life to be a good and moral man. I have never EVER deliberately done anything to hurt someone else, and when I have found that I have inadvertently done so, I have asked for their forgiveness. I have sought spiritual enlightenment and attempted to incorporate and reconcile valuable lessons from several religions. I allow others to seek their own paths and not demand they follow mine. Sio, Yes, FHL04, when someone who doesn't know the first thing about who I am beyond a few thousand words posted on the Internet calls me immoral because I don't happen to hold one of their beliefs, I'm not going to respond very well. I would not tolerate this from friends or family and certainly don't have to from total strangers.

None of you, I have noticed, have presented any reasoning behind your belief, but only fall back to the good old argumentum ad hominem. I note that you don't say HOW I have been disrespectful to anyone in this thread. You cannot, because I haven't.

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Funny how it's expected of others but not of yourself.


FHL,

This is the fundamental issue I take with your and Bill's recent posting.

You two have stated that you engaged in behavior that you consider immoral. Check has not.

You may not agree with is choices, but at least he appears to act consistently with his (not your) beliefs. You don't.

I think given that, you should avoid throwing around the hypocrite label.

AGG


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"This is the fundamental issue I take with your and Bill's recent posting."

First of all, Bill and I are not one and the same, though I do support his intent and heart in this matter. I have only replies to things you guys have said.

"You two have stated that you engaged in behavior that you consider immoral. Check has not.

You may not agree with is choices, but at least he appears to act consistently with his (not your) beliefs. You don't."

OK, so let me get this straight. Just because someone does not think their behavior is immoral, thereby allowing them to live up to their own standards, they are automatically worthy of more respect than a person who has high standards of what he feels SHOULD be done, yet sometimes fails in trying to live up to those standards?

I am not arguing on whether Check's standards are low or high. I think it's safe to say that trying to NOT have sex for a long period of time (esp if it's indefinite) takes quite a bit more self-discipline than a more relaxed standard towards sex, whatever that may be. It is only sheer probablility that the person who has the more difficult task at hand has a greater chance of failing at that task, right?

Furthermore, if someone thinks its ok to commit adultery and lives up to their own standards - committing adultery and never feeling bad about it - is that more worthy of respect than someone who thinks it's wrong to commit
adultery and yet sadly goes against those beliefs only to then feel terrible about what they did, and seek healing, restoration and forgiveness? *Please note, I am NOT comparing Check's non-committed-sexual-relationship to adultery, it is simply an analogy in terms of a line of thinking.*

I just don't see how this line of thinking makes any logical sense.

It is good to have high standards to reach for. If you only aim as low as you think you can reach, you'll never touch the stars......

And btw, I NEVER called Check a hypocrite. I did point out that his statements/attitudes were inconsistent (or at least seem so to me), but I never typed the word hypocrite in that post you were referring to. Please don't put words in my mouth.


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Can we say this about the other relationships we've failed at?


I for one, not really. Although it may sound contradicting, that whole FWB idea, takes a lot more care and consideration than casual sex or most friendships as a matter of fact.

That level of honesty, and intimacy is hard to come by.

There are very few people in my entire life I was ever more honest with than by former FWB. That still holds true to this day.

It's not like I ran out and had a handful of FWB. This particular person, kind of fit into that role, when all other definitions failed us. We weren't exclusive, we weren't "just friends", but didn't seek a romantic relationship with each other, while also not preventing one or the other in finding "the one".

I may go one step further and say it actually takes a greater level of mutual respect to maintain one of those types of relationships, especially when it comes to dating and all that jazz. I mean, I love and respect my H deeply, but he isn't allowed to date. KWIM?

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