Dazed,

I've never posted to you before (I usually post on Emotional Needs), but I've been following your thread since November. I feel compelled to post right now because I think it is CRITICAL that you stick to your plan, and that you listen to the advice of Steve Harley, Mortarman, Owl and Please Help.

I agree that timing is everything - and that Plan B too early will be a disaster. And I have seen changes in what your WW has been saying to you to indicate you are making some progress. Stay strong with your Plan A.

One thing I'd like to add... I don't pretend to be an expert on infidelity - thankfully, I was spared your cross. But time and again, as I have read your thread, I've been amazed at just how well you have been doing your Plan A. I think you have an intuitive understanding of what you need to do to reach your WW. I think your decisions have, during the time I've been reading (from after you started a good Plan A), been consistantly sound. Have confidence in what you are doing. It's starting to work.

WOW!!! Someone's angry!!......This is precisely why I don't post much (because of your type of post). Just because our ideas (mine and Longhorn's-and quite a few others, I might add) on how to handle a situation are not the same as yours, does not mean we don't care about Dazed and want to offer what we feel is a solution for him. Nor does it mean we want him to Plan B yesterday! However, we feel he needs to at least PREPARE for Plan B fairly soon and to me, he doesn't seem to be considering that.

You certainly know how to insult well meaning people, PH!


P.S. It's an MB tenet, lest not forget, PH........

Mortarman- Props my friend...

Yes, I know about Plan B and have letter written... I hope that the missle never needs fired but its there... Probably need to edit it to update and stay out of legal trouble.

The big thing right now is just measuring where she is at with regards to coming home and to work out a stategy for dealing with what happens next....

What does Dazed need besides a unconditionally loving wife and great daughter... lol
Dazed needs support when I am tired and weak... A place to feel sorry for my self and vent frustration.... Help with a plan and stategy for implimenting it... Help understanding what the WW is doing behind the fog.....

In a nutshell I need help with: Reaching my potential in life, Doing all I can do to save my family and marriage, No matter the outcome learn how to become a better father and person.

Thank all of you...

BTW~
Maybe a Plan B vs. Plan A thread would be a great idea to post as a new thread...

Mellow...
I cram things down and they come out like that sometimes....I get to the point....to harshly sometimes..sorry..

I just read SOOOOO many ideas on what,when,how,why he needs to go to Plan "B" and almost NOTHING about teaching him to PLAN "A" (ah... the plan he is actually in....)

And when people feel the need to state the OBVIOUS about sex with OM.. I wonder HOW does that HELP dazed focus ON THE PLAN HE IS IN..??

All that "vision" can POSSIBLY do is MAKE HIM MAD AT HIS WW....OM.....HIMSELF.... THE WORLD......

Now... when his W starts to "vent" and spews anger at him... what is more likely to do....

A.)Respond with loving warm PLAN "A" responses...
B.)RIP HER HEAD OFF WHILE THINKING OF OM ON TOP OF HIS W???

NOT THE KIND OF HELP HE NEEDS....

That's all I'm saying...

Using MM's Military scenario....
Do you go to your troops and tell them how much more POWERFUL the enemy is than you? Do you remind them of the areas that are being LOST to the enemy? Or do you do the opposite? What makes them want to keep on fighting?

And about Plan "B"

Tenet \Ten"et\, n. [L. tenet he holds, fr. tenere to hold. See
Tenable.]
Any opinion, principle, dogma, belief, or doctrine, which a
person holds or maintains as true; as, the tenets of Plato or
of Cicero.
(I had to look that word up LOL)

My understanding:
Plan "B" was designed by the Harley's as a Plan for a BS whose had their HEAD AND HEART ripped out of the body by this affair... to PRESERVE LOVE FOR THE WS... so they DON'T LB all over the place and destroy ALL the progress Plan "A" has made and make it POSSIBLE for the WS to RETURN....WHEN the affair falls on it's face....

Seemingly MOST everyone ELSE'S understanding.:

A way to "WAKE UP"....PUNISH......ALLOW ONES WS TO "HIT ROCK BOTTOM"..........THE ONLY WAY TO END AN AFFAIR.....THE STICK... THE CAKE EATING STOPPER...... THE WAY TO "LOVINGLY" SHOW THE WAY HOME....ETC....

NOT THAT IT HASN'T DONE THIS IN A FEW CASES....NOT THAT IT WON'T DO THAT... I just don't believe that's what the Harley's had in mind....

I think Plan "B" is a VERY VERY risky deal....it can backfire... and I believe it does MANY MANY MANY more times than it works to cause ANY of the above....

WHEN THERE WAS A ONE WEEK/MONTH POORLY EXECUTED PLAN "A" IN FRONT OF IT...how could that possibly be seen as anything other than cruel, self serving and nasty?

I am with lexxy...B will be coming but not until after court.

Honestly that is what I see.

And hopefully she will turn her views around. But she needs to be somehow told that you can't go on living like this...gently communicate you wish NC, the affair to end, and you'll work together to heal and repair your family and can PUT AN END TO THIS NONSENSE. She is in pain yet she is still manipulating masterfully dazed.

You can begin laying down this pavement..planting ideas in her mind about coming home...and see what happens. She needs to know this limbo canno go on. Keep up the plan A...but know that B is looming ok friend?

It does not mean anything bad...you did and are doing a great plan A. But do not be afraid of B either when that time comes. I can actually say that I think she'll come home faster after the second court date. She needs no cushioning after it friend.

Lexxy was a WW. She knows...she knows what broke thru to her.

and remember, you are talking to a woman who does, as mortar put it, sees words in a different way not...different perspective...foggy.

Don't listen to words ; just her actions for clarity.

Okay here is a perfect example of what I am facing....
How should I respond to this presented to me from WW minutes ago?????????
___________________________________________
thats ok. You & D12 can go. I don't need to
take advantage of your benefits. D12 did want glasses like
mine though. Maybe you can help her pick out some that look
better on her than what she got last time. She always liked the way
mine looked on her.(This is her response to our eye doctor sending us our annual exam notice).

I have been thinking--D12 is pretty adamant on NOT tt that G. A. L person-
maybe we can just figure this all out between us. What do you think? I really can be fair.
I mean really, you already know she will want to be w/ you most of the time--you have
a tv & computer---I don't even have a bed.

Dazed,

Let me try and put this in another form for you. MM and others have give all of the information you need. The drill is simple:

1. You stay in plan A until after the custody hearing. Period end of story. No decision making to consider.

2. You do a great plan A up until then, and THEN you go to plan B, it will shock her, she will miss the new dazed, and she will run to OM who feels he has gotten what he wanted. But he will be in for a huge surprise. You have upped the ante in this poker game far higher than he can play. He will come up short and your W will know it.

Now for a slightly different look at the time between now and the court hearing. Do you fish? It is an art. You have been hauling hard on that line and your W has been fighting all of the way. Look at what she said
She is running out of things to throw at you so she is down to some really dumb things, not even the REAL issues you two had before this affair. She is wearing out, and you are hauling on the line. However, it is tiring you and you might snap the line. So it is time to ease back on the tension abit. Don't call her, express your love and back off of her. Pay attention to your daughter. In short, let your W come to you.

Now here is were the fishing analogy fails, you are also being reeled in. She is playing you and you are fighting it and it is tiring you out. So back off. Sounds like what I just told you doesn't it? Well it is.

She is with OM, she is posturing for the lawyer and custody hearings, she has not come home, and she has made NO commitment to you. All of this must change before she can come home, but quit fighting it.

YOU KNOW WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN. Some of it is starting to happen, but it is tiring you out. You are in this for the long haul. As MM says you are at mile 15 of a 25 mile hike with full pack and gear and you are tiring. Slow the pace abit, keep one foot in front of the other. Take a water break, eat, but don't rest too long or you cannot keep going.

This march is like fishing, a delicate play of strength, endurance, WILL, and courage. So far you have been up to it, now keep it up. The really delicate part is beginning.

Focus on the important things. In my mind and I think yours these are:

Protecting your D from being around OM and your W while she is acting as she has been.

Trying to save your marriage, and this often means doing things that are counter intuitive. I think MM can explain to you how much a drill sargeant is hated during basic, and how much he is loved and respected by the men his traing helped keep alive. It is the same now. YOu will have to do some hard things and your W will be mad, and you have to calmly stand your ground, not deviate, and keep focused.

You can do this Dazed, but you are going to have to be a stronger man than you ever realized you could be. Quit questioning yourself, quit questioning her (by the way "the fog" means that their logic is flawed, but it is self serving make no mistake about that), and focus on your goals.

Pace yourself, but keep moving one foot in front of the other, and gradually you will grind down her objections. Gradually, she will see the truth of things. Have you noticed that you are NOT hearing about how you spend your time these days? Think about what you are NOT hearing, including that she loves you.

You are winning this war keep at it.

God Bless,

JL

Dazed,
What you are doing and have done these last few months is amazing. I can empathize with you and what you are going through as I am one who was faced with much the same thing. While my WH never left our home, I was faced daily with the knowledge that he was engaging in various 'activities' with a women at his workplace. After a couple rocky months I realized that I could not control anyone but me, and by getting to know myself and changing myself for the better I was making myself, his wife and mother of 4 children a much better and easier choice.

I don't honestly know how long the A went on. I know what he told me and I guess I have to accept that. What I do know is that I too faced a divided camp. There were just as many telling me to dump his sorry butt as there were fighting for my marriage. I got the doormat nickname, but I never considered myself that. What I did was continue to be a good wife and mother....consistantly with few if any LB's. I contined to listen and talk with H whenever he felt like talking. I included him in all activities; he had the choice whether to participate or not. But...and this is a biggy....I did not let his A dictate my life. I did not allow it to influence my emotional or physical well being or that of the children. Life went on with or without him...his choice. And..I found ways to insert myself into his everyday life at the office in small but well planned ways; another plus of knowing him as well as I did and knowing what would touch him.

One thing that I did not allow, however, was for him to bait me or do the you did this/that which I see your wife doing. When he would start I would calmly say, yes that is correct but we are not going to discuss that any longer and either continue with the real direction of the conversation or end it. It is called emotional blackmail and you cannot/should not permit it.

I am one of PH's long time plan A folks. A couple of years at least. That was how long it took me to reach my endpoint. And quite honestly the thing that finally sent my marriage into recovery was my quiet and gentle admission that I had come to the end of my rope and that things needed to change or I was leaving him, point blank. He knew that I meant it and by that time knew full well what he could lose. While I don't think you are at the end of your rope quite yet, I do believe that, as was suggested, you need to have a plan based on the possible outcomes konwing that the only way you will ever get your wife back is if/when this A ends, completely and forever.

My best to you...DR

Just learning is so right...

excellent analogies.

And from your ww's email dazed...she is talking to dd about court? About the guardian ad litum? That is something she should not go there with...not at all with dd.

Truly believe she is trying to soften you up and she is saying SHE will make a deal with YOU. That is what I get outta her email. She's saying SHE can be fair...reasonable. She's saying let's drop the court appointed child advocate..let's just do this ourselves! And she does want to be with you most of time.

The WW is giving YOU the ground rules in this email. She is saying what she wants you do to do. Again, she's saying dazed PLEASE ENABLE ME.

Make sure this week you obtain subpoena for OM's XW...that will show he's definitely a smut lover. and will show to court why this man should NOT be around dd12.

And if you say no to WW...she will get mad again. It is a cycle. Becoming rather predictable if you ask me. She gets sweet, caring, comes by more often, then leaves, gets moody then angry...then comes back sweet and nice..attempts again to get you to drop lawyer, G.A.L. from court, etc...and when you say now will become angry and rage.

That's her pattern. What she has done over and over.

As always, Just Learning is right on the money.

Dazed, listen. I know you are venting, and that is fine!!! Vent away! Just understand that it is our jobs to keep up the mantra with YOU! To help you grab your pack, stand back up and begin again to take those steps each day. As JL said, if the pace is too fast, slow it down a bit (I think that is what Lexxxy was alluding to).

You are close to the end of this he!! and it is becoming tiring because you want to get to that end. But this will happen in its own time. As Steve Harley told me one time, you cant shorten this process anymore than it takes...but you can sure lengthen it!

You are doing great! You are actually doing a much better Plan A than I did (maybe that is why mine took so much longer!!!).

Steady!

In His arms.

Also, that post about court, the GAL, and what your wife was doing with her email by JustPeachy is dead on. Make sure you print that one out for your lawyer.

Remember, while yo uare still Plan Aing, you are also fighting a legal battle. In any conflict, the legal stuff MUST take precedence over the Plan A.

In His arms.

Lexxxy is correct. Plan A needs to be less "in your face." You need to let her come to you, as JL said also.

When she wakes up one day and sees how much she is relying on you...how much she really does need you...it is that day she will come home!

In His arms.

Owl also makes a good point here, Dazed.

You need to do third tier planning. I nthe military, we do this in order to decide what to do. Let's say we decide to attack a hill. Well, we then plan out what the likely responses of the enemy will be. Then, we plan out our responses to the enemy's responses. We then try to determine their response to our last ones. Three tiers.

What that does is follow the likely avenues out, so we can go back to the original decision and decide the best course of action. Our decision is really made for us, and our subsequent decisions, because they have already been planned for. That way, we only have to deal with the unplanned stuff that pops up.

Plan it out! Write it down, out to three tiers:

My action =
1. Her possible responses
2. My subsequent actions in regards to each of her responses
3. Her responses to each of actions in #2

If you do this, then you will actually guide her in the direction you want her to go. In the military, many times, we actually have the enemy following our plans and making the plans we want them to, because we planned out likely responses.

This is war, and their is an enemy. Fight it as such.

In His arms.

There is enemies all through WW, and they need to literally be cast out in the name of Jesus.

Lady

Dazed:

A couple of thoughts from me too, for what it is worth. First of all, Our DD was mid Jan '04 and it took my FWW till mid April '04 with MC to quit seeing the OM. Your timelines are not substantially different so be patient since they are all different.

I used exposure and the threat of more exposure to stop the affair. I also worked the moral issue, Family, and God at the same time by trying to shame my FWW away from the OM.

I think the court case and the DD is your biggest tool. When she talks about your attorney overstating facts, etc, I believe I would say something like, "I need to do whatever it takes to protect the children from the damage you are causing to them by having an affair. I need to protect the children from you, their lost mother, since you have chosen to live an ongoing adulterous life".

My thought is to know that you are prepared to take the kids away since she is unfit. I am a firm believer in Tony Robbins theory. When the pain exceeds the pleasure, the person will make the change. The pain from affair and extreme pain from the loss of the kids needs to exceed the pleasure that the OM gives her. You have been giving her the Plan A carrot but you must enforce it with the stick. It is called tough love. Let her know you will do what is necessary to protect the kids and if taking the kids away from their mother is better for them, you will do it without blinking an eye. In the fog state, she is not a good mother.

Love is not enough to win her back but create fear within her and take her kids away, she will be back, as Arnold would say.

By the way MM, I don't know what you do for a living, but you really should really consider becoming a marraige counsellor specializing in infidelity cases. I think you have a real 6th sense about you.

Dazed, I think your wife is moving back to you and I have been saying that for awhile. I am not keen on Plan B yet either. There may come a time for it, but I think it is time to start putting subtle pressure on her in a tough loving manner because she seems to be running scared or her Christmas actions were by design and that is why the OM was allowing it. I mentioned befor Christmas, we need to see how she acts and she is already acting differently than she did throught the Holiday. That means she may have orchestrated the whole play. Don't feel alone, all WS's manipulate, plan, scheme, and lie to get their OP fix.

TooSoon

Dazed,

Haven't heard from you for a bit. How are things going?

If you've decided to take a few days off from that boards that's OK. We all have to do that occasionally.

Let us know how you're doing when you have time / you're ready.

We'll keep hoping and praying for you.

Stay Strong!

Update:
She called me at the end of the day after I did not reply to that email request to negociate a way out of the GA appointment with daughter...
I told her that I did not think that we could not act on a court order with out dropping the entire petetion... She said, yes we can. I already called my lawyer to find out... I said, well don't you think that getting a professional third party opinion would be best? We are not even suppose to be talking or asking her anything about this stuff for 1.. For 2 she don't want to hurt our feelings and most likely would not tell us entirely how she is thinking and feeling...
She got mad... Accused me of taking her daughter away from her and just me being selfish.
She blamed me for everything wrong in her life... I diverted her current problems back on her choices... Sorry, can't really recall the exact wording... Just same old crap.
There was one thing she said, before in her phone call just before lunch.. She said, I dread 1PM lunch break and 5PM.. I said, why... She said, because that is when i have to deal with all this and I hate it. Now wait a minute... Lunch break is OM's time... So is after work...Things in fantasy land must be going great.

I did not hear from her again the rest of the night.

Yesterday morning WW called just minutes before me and daughter left for the dentist office. She was nice and wanted to make sure we were not late. Asked me to call once we were done.
While waiting, I read a bible that was in the waiting area. The passages about divorce and marriage, sin of adultree... Interesting the one reason given why a man can divorce a women is for having an affair... My friend mentioned last night that the book only says a man can do this...
Why does this world glamourize affairs like it does...That is what the tabloids live for... National news is covering the divorce of Nick and Jessica Simpson... Brad and Jen... This all makes me sick... I will never look a things the same after this... I notice that almost every thing in society includes affairs as if they are a part of marriage.

Back to my story...
I made the WW a dental appointment with options for two different dates... After taking daughter back home I went by the store, got WW a pop and took the paper work from the dentist out to her work... I really wanted to make a surprise visit to see if there was any thing around her desk or rings on her fingers of OM's...

When I walked in she was really nervous... NO rings or pictures that was in sight... You should have seen her eyes when I handed her the papers...Once she read them she was nice and I surprised her with the pop... She looked sad... I told her she looked like she could use a hug... She said she probably could... I told her we will have to do that later... There was a lot of people coming and going around her little desk area she works at... So, I held her hand for a bit, and made small talk... She still has daughters plant on display and the vase from my flowers is on her desk top.
She told me that her brother changed the termostat on her car and he thought the old one was in backwards... I told her if he turned it around the wrong way your car has no chance of working longer than five minutes at a time and there will be no heat or defrost... She said, yes... there is no heat or defrost now... I told her your car is done. You must let me finish it this week... She said, okay... I would like that. I told her that I would go out and put water in it so she could make it to pick up daughter at 1 PM. I did go out and put in water. Then went on to work.

She called and thanked for taking daughter to the dentist and thanked me for getting her an appointment.. We talked about insurance and made small talk... She was friendly and seemed okay. Thanked me for watering her car and continuing to work on it this week...

She emailed me right afte lunch... Asking if I was talking to daughter when she got there... She was really upset that daughter called me and asked about what to do with her teeth that was hurting from the cleaning... WW was hurt that daughter called me and not her... She also thought that i was calling to see if WW actually shown up on time... She was mad thinking that i thought she might not make it on time and make daughter late to her activity...
I told WW that I had suggested oragel for her teeth and or the childrens tylenol that has ibuprofen we have in the kitchen...
WW was really mad that daughter is coming to me and not her...
WW called me again near the end of the day to blame me for everything... I let her ramble and re-directed certain comments of hers back to questions of her affair and choices. She just kept complaining about history and things I did over the years....
I calmly and quietly asked her this:
WW, what will it take for you to come home? I new I could not speak first... There was about 20 seconds of dead silence.. Finally my cell phone rang... WW said, well your precise little cell phone is ringing so I better go...

WW called back right before 5PM to make sure that I was going to go get daughter... She says, well I don't have a job where I can just leave like you do, super dad... I said, okay... See you later..

I picked up daughter from her leadership program and she was begging for food... I said, we needed to wait for mother and be considerate.
We got home and daughter waited about 15 minutes for her mom.. Daughter went upstairs to play on the computer while waiting...
WW shown up in a real find mood... I new when she rang the door bell to have someone let her in that she was going to be a pleasure to visit with.
The plan was for WW to come be with daughter at home or go out somewhere for the evening while I finished her car engine.
When I let WW in the house she started right in... Your mirror is not hanging straight... Who's Christmas gifts are those still under the tree, why have you not put up the Christmas gifts, the dog is going to eat daughters stereo stuff you guys just left out, where is my mail? She just stood in the entry way not willing to go anywhere else.

She said, I feel so awkward in your house... I said, and why is that? She said, well it's not like any one is welcoming me with open arms here... She has not even came down stairs to see me... She could care less if I am here or not... You have taken her from me and are just turning her against me...
So, at this point I had my coat on ready to leave... Seeing how WW was acting I knew that I could not leave her alone with daughter... So, I took my coat off... I asked her what she was going to do? Daughter is very hungery, how about I go get dinner? WW said, well I am just going to go... She don't care if I am here or not... I said, WW... She is upstairs waiting on you... GO UP to her... She just stood there... I asked daughter to come down stairs...
She said, high mommy... I am hungry can we eat soon please?
WW looks at me and says, well that's up to him.. I said, daughter what would you like to eat? Maybe you and mom can go eat... WW said, daughter lets go eat and go do something like go to the mall... Daughter, said... Mom can we just stay here and eat... Besides I am tired... I could see WW starting to boil... Daughter goes into the kitchen and brings out a box of hamburger helper pasta and hands it to her mom... Said, Mommy can you make this for me... WW, is angry and says... NO can't we just leave... Your dad does not have any supplies here to make that... Daughter says, yes we do... It's in the kitchen... WW, says there probably all old and out of date... Daughter gets frustrated with her and goes back up stairs to her room....

WW gets mad and blames me for turning daughter against her. Says, she will just go get daughter some food and drop it off... She slames the door shut really hard and drives off spinning the tires on her car...
I go up and set with daughter for a while and visit with her about her computer and who was on MSN and that kind of thing.. Just show interest in what she is doing... Like what her mother should have done.
WW comes back and throws a bag of food on the entry way table... Says, she is leaving and see how considerate I am... I even brought you food... Unlike what you do.. I should have just walked in eating like you have done before... NO not me... I am considerate and care unlike you...

Daughter comes down stairs... WW starts in telling daughter that she is just going to go and how daddy is just making it so she can't see her any more... I said, WW you can't go there... The judge told us about that... WW says, _uck the judge and your GA.. Daughter i hope you enjoy talking to the GA that daddy is making you do... Daughter says, I am not talking to any one about anything... I told daughter to please go upstairs now... Mommy is out of line and you are not suppose to be hearing divorce talk especially where you mother is trying to make this all my fault... Daughter goes up stairs... I told WW that she is way off and that is cruel and wrong for you make statement that are not even true infront of her like that... She says, well you are turning her against me probably talking about me every night and how you are so perfect now.

She left and then called me as soon as she could... She was really ready to go now... I really pissed her off by not evern raising my voice with her... She was screaming into the phone and I just kept talking down and slow... She mentioned once about us fighting and I said, who is fighting her.. I have not even raised my voice... She actually calmed down after a short pause... She blamed me for her apartment, her being the one out of the house..
I asked her..WW why are you in that apartment and not at home? She says, I should have made you leave but i was being fair and nice.... Look at what that got me... I said, WW the fault is not all yours here... It was OM that made you leave our home for that little dirty no heated, unfurnished apartment...The way I see it that he needs to share in the blame for your choices...

WW starts in blaming me for not being a good dad for years and now I am super dad taking over... Says, that I remind her of where and when daughter is at... WW says, that you act like I don't know nothing and are just a piece of ****** mother... I said, WW.. I am informing you of all of daughters events and schedule so we can joint parent our daughter together.
She says, well you never did before... I said, now you have the oppourtunity for the family you always wanted.... She said, and you had the oppourtunity for years and just pissed it away... I said, now the oppourtunity is yours... It is your choice now. She says, I lived for that kid for 12 years... I took cloths to school for her when she spilled lunch on herself... I volunteered at the school, I ate lunch with her three times a week at the school, I took her everywhere with me and basically lived for her... I said, and now you have the oppourtunity to jointly raise our daughter... She said, I lived for you and her for years, and what did it get me? I said, and who are you living for now and what is it getting you? She said,,, ME and l am living for ME... _uck you....
I said, WW we would not even be having this conversation right now if it was not for him...
It was your choice to leave our home and be in an empty apartment... Neither me nor daughter wanted you to leave...So who did?
This fogged out babble continued for a while... She was very angry that I never raised my voice or lost my temper...
I just kept turning her blast back onto the affair...
She said, she told her lawyer that I was not being fair with her and that I was not sharing time with daughter and I would not let her have anything out of the house for her apartment.

Once off the phone I went up and spent some time with daughter upstairs... We figured out that I needed to get her a new USB multi-port card for the computer so I asked her to go to radio shack with me and then to the shop to work on the car engine. On our way to radio shack I seen a car coming from the other direction with smoke just belowing from it... Once at the stop light I could see it was WW and her car had steam pouring from it. I turned around to make sure she got to her apartment... I did not follow her close enough that she seen me just from a distance...
Her brother putting the termostat in backwards has completely killed it and now the radiator exploded... I am sure that is my fault too...

I called her to make sure she was okay... She was still mad as ******... Said, you don't care about me... You don't about anything other than yourself.. click..

She called me back about 15 minutes later... Asking where did you see me? Was daughter with you? Then she was mad as ******... Said, so she will leave with you but not me??? That figures... I am just a piece of ****** now, you are perfect and great...
I paused for moment and said... WW, what do I have to do for you to believe in me? She said, I have to go.. Click.

In the morning I went by her apartment.. When i got there at 20 till eight the car was running... Very bad idea of hers... It was already very hot, water all over the parking lot. I put water in it and seen it running right back out. I shut off the car...
I thought if I shut it off, it may make it to work knowing she is so stubborn she was going to try it anyway.
So, I scrapped ice off the windows so she could see.

Daughter asked me to give WW her scarf she bought for Christmas, so I put on on the front seat and called WW...
I asked if she needed a ride to work... She said, no... I said, I am out side and your car is done... It will not go any further... She said, well I can make it.. I will be all right... She got in it and took off for work... Steam pouring from it as she went... I told her she could call me when it stops...
She called from work to tell me she made it and she was sorry for being so mean on the phone earlier...

Me and my freind was talking last night about this...
We came up with a couple of thoughts.
1) I need to try to diffuse her angry outburst on me. Need to let her know that she can not do this and get away with it and be all nicey nice and make it all better next time. This babble is risky because she is just looking for new material to justify her being with OM... She only has the past and very petty stuff like not taking the trash out every week and now the custody thing is what her and OM is using to discredit my love for her.
I want to make it known that what she is doing is hurting me. Withdrawing love from my bank at high speed rates. She will not be able to bash me and beat me and come back and say sorry and it be all better until next time.

2) She needs to be angry with me for two reasons.
A) She is the submissive one in her relationship with OM.... He is the one beating on her and yelling and controling her... This was never her role in our relationship... She needs an outlet to vent her frustration and anger and she can't do that with OM... He is funny make me laugh guy until he gives ultimatims then becomes angry guy all the while a control freak that is watching what times the lights go out at night.
3) Her anger at me is her defense mechanism to justify being with OM... When she starts to miss me and thinks about coming home she must think of ways to be mad at me and angry to justify not being with me and being with OM...
As long as she can stay angry with me she can accept her choice to be with OM and her crap life...
My friend thinks that she uses this to block out her love for me... Other wise she would be with drawn from me and not wanting to bait me into a fight...

My wife used that 'beating up' tactic on me once or twice while she was living in the motel waiting on the flight to go live with OM.

Whenever she got abusive like your wife does, I simply told her that I was NOT going to fight with her...she was the only one fighting here and that she needed to stop and start acting like an ADULT...and I gave her two warnings...after the second warning I simply told her that I would be glad to talk with her when she could stop shouting and resume TALKING...and then I hung up on her.

Even now, my wife tends to try to use that tactic occasionally when we don't agree on something. And I'll just walk away letting her know that I'm not willing to stand there and be treated like that. She can come talk to me when she's able to attack the problem, not the people.

Good job on staying calm and talking quietly...it's one of the most effective tactics going. And IF this stuff gets brought up in court, make sure to have your lawyer ask the both of you about HOW these 'discussions' were handled...so that it paints clearly the picture over who the rational person is.

Oh...next time she says that she should have made you move out...ask just how she would have done that? No one can force you to leave the house...no one forced HER to leave the house. She made that choice on her own...just like she can choose to come home at any time when she finally ends her affair.

And as far as DD coming to you for everything...quietly ask your wife what does she expect to happen with her mom living someplace else? Of course she's going to come to you...because right now, you're the only one who IS there for her all the time...and you're the only one who ISN'T constantly verbally attacking DD. Right now, she's NOT a fit mother...she's mean, hard-hearted, and abusive. Not to mention, unavailable when DD needs her. How could she expect things to be any different.

Sadly, I don't think there's going to be much change in your situation until after your next court date. Make sure you're still documenting all of this...every conversation, all your attempts to help WW, EVERYTHING.

Since you know your wife's general MO in how she deals with you (alternating verbal/emotional abuse with tears and regrets) have you given any thoughts as to how YOU can negate this? Start your countermeasures now. Remember, this really is all about YOU taking control back of the situation...at least the parts you have influence in.

Dazed,

Please, please, please call you attorney immediately and make him/her aware of the situation with the GA and how WW has been raising these issues with DD. It is CRITICAL that you make him aware of this NOW. This could seriously impact your case and your attorney needs to be able to damage control NOW as opposed to after the fact.


Regards,

BB

Dazed,

What about the RO against the OM?

In His arms.