It is time, Dazed. Peachy is right. It is Plan B time. She is wearing you down, you are now becoming combative. She is vascillating all over the place. Things are getting worse for your DD because your wife is able to come in daily and bring this junk in. Your DD doesnt want to talk to your WW because she doesnt know what she is going to get day-to-day.

Have you talked about what your plan is with your DD? or is she still just lost without knowing that anyone is in charge and has a plan? She needs this Dazed. Do it immediately! She needs to trust in something and someone right now. Your wife is obviously incapable of doing that, as she is causing all of the problems. But your DD is beginning not to trust you! She cant trust you because she has no clue what you are doing. So, she is starting to try to do it herself. Like bargaining for home schooling. Dazed, talk to her. YOU are in command, you have control of this. Let her know that. Let her in, or you are going to find that she WILL seek her stability elsewhere!

When is the court date? If it is more than a week away, then I dont think you will make it to the court date without going to Plan B. If it is in the next week, then you need to just find things to do and keep your wife away as much as possible until then.

As the Plan B Czar here, I want you to know that you are one of the best examples of entering Plan B after a great Plan A. You have done all of the ground work. But I also know that it is time.

Let us know about talking to daughter, about when the court date is. Make sure ALL of your waterfowl are coaxially aligned! Have your Plan B stuff ready, printed out, etc. Change the locks on the doors IMMEDIATELY!! And have yourself ready to go to the magistrate for the RO against the OM the moment you leave the courthouse after your hearing.

Dazed, the next move is scary...but it is the only possible way back to your family being whole. Time to be the man, as you have been, and take your family where it NEEDS to go. No one can do this for you...you are your daughter's only hope now.

It is time.

In His arms.

Make sure your attorney knows about this also. Yoru wife continues to say things to and infront of your DD that are not appropriate. That judge is going to rip her a new one!!

In His arms.

God, yes. Plan B. Go dark.

DAZED,

Don't do anything rash... call Steve Harley FIRST... your court date is only 6 days away...

Although I am tending to agree with MM since he hasn't been telling you "B" at EVERY turn and since the day after you got here.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I agree it MAY be time for Plan "B" ONLY because (as it's designed) it will preserve YOUR love for WW.

I see your patience getting thin... your starting to "get combative" as MM said. This will only lead to LBs on your part.
And could possibly ruin maybe the BEST Plan "A" I've seen since LOSTVA!!

Unless you can pull yourself together it may be time.,.

CALL STEVE FIRST.....He was talking to you about a "modified" "B" after the New Year the last time you spoke to him.. (boy he's good huh?? He called it within a couple of days!!) Get HIS plan for the future FIRST... see what a modified "B" is that he is planning FOR YOU....

Anyway.,... take a DEEEEEEPPPPP breath..... GET STRONG...... TALK TO YOUR DAUGHTER....CALL STEVE.......
GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS...FRANK

P.S. MM... I've always wanted to ask you... how long was your PLAN "A" and how long were you in PLAN "B" till your WW came home???

Dazed,

You need to make absolutely certain that your attorney knows DD refused to go to GA appointment and the stuff your WW and MIL said to her before the appointment. If you tell your attorney and your attorney brings this to the judge's attention, its not your behind that is going to be chewed on by the judge or GA, it will be your WW's. What she is doing is intentionally interfering with the Court's order re: GA. She has intentionally manipulated DD so that the GA cannot do her/his job, which is to represent DD. Perhaps you could reschedule with GA and get DD to go by telling DD that the GA is there to be DD's lawyer in all of this. Dad has a lawyer, Mom has a lawyer and the Court has given DD a lawyer to represent DD's interests - not Dad's or Mom's interests, but her interests - that may appeal to her and make her feel 1) like she's being heard and 2) very grown up. You could also tell her that, by talking to the GA, it might (don't say will, say might) prevent her from having to go in the courtroom and tell the judge, in front of both Mom & Dad, what she is feeling or where she wants to live.

Regards,

BB

Regards,

BB

I have so much to do..
This is most of my problems... Everything in life seems to be piling on right now.
I am behind with everything right now...really everything.

WW gets my hopes up like on New Year's eve and then just blows me off and treats me like ******. Everything is drawing on me now. I had also believed that she would be home by New Years. Then as if on a schedule New Years eve she tells me she has been lieing to me about only missing me a little and really misses me so much and how she wants to come home and how she is going to go with her girl friend and take care of things so we can be happy. Then to only be let down again and that she was out all night on NY's eve while I worked to repair her car all by myself. She told me to call her before 12AM and when I did the phone was shut off. Of course she never called me.
I feel like a fool. I love her unconditional... I offer forgiveness to her for her affair and yet she thinks she is the one that must forgive me and it is a given that i should forgive her...
She still thinks that OM is great and I am a bad guy... I continue to push on and do everything in my power to find a way to show her happiness and she just blows it all off...
I still struggle with how she can act like it is an option to choose your husband of 13 years or piece of crap OM of less than a year.
She thinks I am a bad guy for wanting daughter to have a voice in the custody trial. She acts like I should just give in to her and let her do what she wants like I owe this.
I feel she is the one that should be working to win me back... She is the one that strangled our marriage for months before D-DAY. She wanted it to die and blames me for it. She has openly broadcasted to our entire community what a bad guy I am and how much a victim she is.
I find myself under attack from both her family and mine over the lies she tells about me...
Yes, I am frustrated. She believe the sun rises and sets in a worthless using piece of ****** that has done everything in his power to blow up our marriage and family just for himself and she can't even see that. More than that, she blames me for holding her back from this great future with another man and letting her daughter join them....
I feel like I do everything to make a coming home look easy for her and she just pisses on it. With out any effort on her part just blow it all up and make what could be a beautiful moment for us turn into a nightmare.

She tries so hard to bring the worst of me out. She just treats me so bad and is so rude and mean to me... It makes me sick to know that she is so submisive with OM and she is the little princess that gets told how to do and what to do and likes it...
I figure she must need me to vent on and let the taker in her out and play. For real... I think she is almost all giver to OM and just the opposite with me.

She made me so mad today by screwing up daughter then telling me on the phone that daughter is fat and it no wonder that the boys make fun of her in P.E. and that she should stop eating icecream and start doing more than watch tv like when she was a kid she did this and that blah blah.
Then said, that she does not like school because her freinds from last year are not in her classes and she is to stubborn to make new ones...
Also said, that I am to blame for taking daughter from her and that a daughter needs her mother and frankly I was never around anyway so daughter is probably just acting out because she don't know what to do about only have a dad that she does not really even know.
This was why I finally had enough and brought to her attention that it is the dam affair and WW's choices that is the problem....
Was that so bad of me???? I mean for real... How stupid and drunk can this woman be? How could she not see this..
So by me pointing this out I love busted and put guilt on her... Well dam it... Who else is going to stand up for our daughter and tell this idiot that if the sky looks blue well it probably is just blue...
Your dam right I am tired of her ignorance and malace for doing what is right... She just acts like she is holding a lottery ticket in her hand and it is for sure a winning ticket and she has me and daughter in the other knowing that we suck and will cost her the lottery ticket and then some if she keeps us...

The more I hear about how great she thinks OM is the more it hurts me. Knowing she treats me like ****** all the time.
He has got her to believe that the love busting he has done is a part of protecting her...
I am just not a sales man... Okay... I am a not a type A personality that can just talk ****** all day long.
She also confessed that she likes type A personality men... That she always wanted that from me and I never gave it to her... That is why she has always found guys to have around as friends that could make her laugh. She said that she just filled that void for years with other men and this time she just fell for one of them. She said, he can always make her feel better and laugh. She said, she can see herself grow old with him because he can humor her.
She said, that she don't think I could ever do that and that she for years was willing to over look that in me but when I let her down so many times that she started to think she should start living for herself and not others.
She told me that she just gave and gave for years and now all she wants to do it take.. Stop living for others and now all for herself... Like it's pay back time because she said she did so much for people and look what it got her... Nothing in return...
Now she has a man that would do everything for her and is trying to... She actually said, he would lie in front of a train for her...
This is just how fogged out she is............
This is the same guy that ran from me and left her to fend for herself three times once I caught them... Same man that hid from me behind a chair and called the cops on me when confronted... The same man that told her to get out of his house before he called the cops on her and she begged him like a little girl to please please not do this and after he verbaly abused her for 20 or 30 minutes he lets her in the door for make up time of which she was there for several hours for...

Got to go..

I just sent this email to WW...

WW-
Today has been a really sucky day for sure… Let me remind you that I love you more than ever WW. Remember when you would say. “How much”? I say right now to you. You mean more to me than anything in the world. I would like for us to have a great marriage and family. You know I believe there is a way for us. Just like everything I said to you Sunday night on the phone. I believe in you and trust in the goodness in your heart. You are a good woman with a very caring heart. I understand you feel like that you gave and gave and it got you nothing. I ask you to please believe in yourself and not to give up.

I just thought you are probably feeling down right now and could use a little pick me up… Yeah, I know things are not so good right now. Remember I love you and I am here for you. You can lean on me when ever you need to…

Dazed

WW's Reply:
thanks for your words.

NICE JOB DAZED!! Let it out... THIS IS THE PLACE FOR THAT!!

Do we think WW is acting mean? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> YES!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Do we think OM is a piece of ****? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> YES!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Do we think that this all S***S for you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> YES!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Do we think that we're going CRAZY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />because we can't stop this for you..... NO....no we don't.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> because.... this is the way this crap goes.... UP AND DOWN... BACK AND FORTH.....IN AND OUT...and.... THEY ALL DO, ACT AND SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOUR WW is DOING, ACTING AND SAYING...

ALL OF THEM....

That... is why Harley's plan works....you've made progress.. two months ago she was POSITIVE she was done with the marriage.... then a month ago she was "Pretty Sure"
now.. she's well... sort of kinda sure....

Don't give up.... it is going well... CALL STEVE!!

GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK

Dazed,

Would you please pull your head out. You are hurting your daughter badly by not making her go to the GA. You are hurting your chances to regain marriage by playing foolish games with your W. You are causing huge drama that does NOT need to be in your life.

Get your Daughter to school NOW. Then go to work and do a good job. Talk with your lawyer about plan B and its function and why you need to be protected from your W for awhile.

You are trying to bargin with the devil right now, and all that will do is lower you ever so slowly but ever so surely into H**L. Stop it.

Please back away from this and be the parent you need to be. Your daughter can be made to go to school and if she won't go, then you will lose her as may your W. The court will take her away from you and perhaps place her with your W and OM or perhaps with foster care. Does that sound like something either your daughter or you want? I don't think so. Get with the program, get her to GA as ordered by the court, and tell her the consequences of failing to do this.

YOU HAVE TO GET CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE and that means quit playing games with your W. SHe is out of your life now, and frankly you have far more important things to worry about. Your daughter is #1 and you need to rear her properly AND provide for her, so losing your job is NOT a good idea right now.

Dazed, it is time you stop being dazed. It is time you play for keeps or you will lose someone even more important than you WW...you daughter.

I am very serious about this, and I hope you take what I have said seriously.

God Bless,

JL

I know you are hurting, and confused, but you need to quit making this statement. This is simply not possible. If she continues on this path, then the day will come when you will not be available for her to lean on. After all, look at your above vent.

I know MM will have good advice for you, so I will leave it at that, but please refrain from telling her taht you will always be there for her. you will always be there for your W, but not for your WW. There is a difference.
I would be worried now, that if you go to plan B in the next couple of days she would say "see what I mean? You said I could always lean on you, now you back away"

I would suggest that your Mantra need to start adjusting a little to say "I love you, I want to stay married to you, but I need to protect myself and my daughter, so I can no longer listen to you putting me down."

JL had good advice as did MM and brit's brat.

Incidentally...your WW is telling you WHY she fell for OM. He is different. He acts differently. My xh is a type a. I am a type A. I find ithard to be in relationships with people who are not...nothing wrong with you B people either.

you need to decode what she is saying dazed. she is saying...this guy is different..he probably chases her a little...then pulls back...and waits for her to chase some more.

don't you get it? it is time for dazed to become the mysterious type a guy...and not a salesman either...and I am not one...just adopt some type a attitudes ok?

that would mean 1)NOT WRITING YOU WILL BE THERE FOR HER ALWAYS...wrongo buddy!

here's the type a response: ww: will you be there? I am afraid I am gonna lose you (fog talk)..dazed as type a: well honey I wish I could say tht I will..but I don't know. Honestly I love you to pieces girl, but you have worn me out. Loving another woman has to be easier than this is. (or just say something foggy) and "well babe...I think I have to look out for me. I gave to you all these years and you never saw the LOVE in my actions...all the little stuff I did you overlooked. In the end, I think it was YOU who took ME for granted."

Om probably gives, then pushes away...gives then pushes away...and his being an extrovert is something that is different than you probably if you are not like that. It is her PERCEPTION that he is different...that is all.

here's an example. I went to school w/a guy named connor. He was always a diamond in the rough in high school...he had trouble getting dates as he was quiet, smart, and not one of thepopular jocks. college came around. He called me up one day and said "hey peach..am going thru frat rush. canyou help me? I need a pick me up. image consulting?" so I did it.

We played on his STRENGTHS...and then changed perceptions! sent him to a cool salon (yea a man spa basically back then) and he had a stylish new cut. went out and I helped pick out clothes...cologne...and we practiced on him being able to shoot a smile he was comfortable with to everybody he met. picked out glasses that according to the stylist, made him look smart..brooding, and hot! plus they were good with his face shape. told him he needed some good buttondowns that were from a good brand...some sharp ties...and some key casual clothes and good pair of jeans. also one very nice pair of dress shoes and good socks. nice belt, wallet, and watch. that is the man makeover. one night he met his fiancee...she walked up to him and said that she was so glad he wasn't like all the other "handsome" guys at the party..that he was down to earth, smart, yet could smile that darn smile that melted her heart..they have 2 wonderful kids and are happy..he still flashes the million dollar smile he once had to practice to do...so that's what happened when a guy decided enough was enough!

In college, he pledged the best fraternity...within a month after that..women were chasing connor all over the place! he had so many dates he didn't know what to do...and he was never a type a. just an unsung guy who decided he needed a makeover. His fiancee after year one had to chase women away with her stick!

what's wrong with this? you can do that. first begins with attitude. you must change. no more doormat mentality..your ww knows you'd open the door...SHE NEEDS TO SEE IT CLOSING NOW! you need to do a man makeover and appear in court as this guy...but do it for yOU! you can do it.

trust me..if i can diet and lose 15 lbs then you can do this!

AND YOU ALSO ADOPT A GET TOUGH ATTITUDE ABOUT MAKING YOUR HOME A PLACE OF SERENITY FOR DD...and you help dd by stopping the ww and her insanity!

right now you're in serious need of a pickup. your ww is tramping all over you and it's time to change and reframe this picture! I am serious.

remember the definition of insanity..doing same thing over and over and pretending that it's making a difference!

time to change brother. get tough with attorney. be loving and firm and have a serene home for dd...get the GA stuff done!

MEMORIZE 180 LIST...i think this is important. do and begin doing 180 and man makeover this week and then flip into plan B hardcore!

she will begin to see the door closing..her good old standby husband is getting hotter! and tired of her poo. and may want somebody else b/c she is so irrational and crazy. suddenly you act different. you talk differently..you LAUGH...and smile with so much confidence it makes her cringe..but in a good way..b/c she is worried what the girls will find when she's gone.

you show up for court..and you LOOK different. first you started acting different...distanced yourself further from her..got tougher attitude...she will fear she's lost you!

as I tell others..you can make the affairees love bust from afar!

and you can start tonight by attitude change. When ww starts being disrespectful and LBING YOU...cut her off. say "this is going nowhere..do not disrespect me. I am gone"..hang up.

teach HER HOW TO TREAT YOU...

Dazed:

I am afraid the Christmas Season was nothing but a sham for your WW. She was playing you and continues to play you. I think more appropriate words to your wife would be:

"This marriage will be over very soon, my love for you is down to nothing, I am moving on in my life, and my goal is to find a woman to make me happy and to help take care of DD, as I raise her. I simply have fallen out of love for you, I don't want you anymore, so don't bother me anymore".

Then say, "What is it gonna take to end the marriage as quickly as possible. I hope you and your OM enjoy yourself for the rest of your lives and for eternity in he11".

Tell her there is nothing else to talk about and hang up.
She isn't coming back to you and she used you for the holiday and to get her car fixed, nothing more nothing less. So do what you need to do. Those feel good letters don't work and it takes two to make a marriage work. I was worried that she was scamming you and it has proven to be true.

I am sorry but until you really dont want her or need her anymore, you will not get her back. It was when I was completely fed up and was ready to let my FWW completely go was when I got her back. I took her back when I didn't even like her, love her, or want her, it was that bad. It took a long time for me to feel anything for her. You need to get to that point and then act on it, rather you call it Plan B or D. Even after I took my FWW back, I didn't think it could be rebuilt because I too lost all respect for my wife. Get to that point and you might have a chance. Get to that point and it won't even matter. Get to that point and you will be the one who chooses to keep her or dump her.

TooSoon

TOO SOON,
Do you REALLY REALLY think DAZED should say:
"What is it gonna take to end the marriage as quickly as possible. I hope you and your OM enjoy yourself for the rest of your lives and for eternity in he11".

I can't believe you would REALLY think he should say that.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

DAZED,
Don't play MIND GAMES with your W... you're PERFECT just the way you are... don't change ANYTHING about your MANTRA or yourself... her love for this OM is FAKE.. so why become HIM?????? You ARE the man she REALLY loves JUST the way YOU ARE NOW... and your D loves you too...

Once again DAZED hits a little hard time in his PLAN "A" (The one that the EXPERT STEVE HARLEY told him to be in BTW..)
And BANG...everyone jumps in and instead of helping him be STRONG..... try and make him WEAK..... tell him to "GIVE
UP"

"She isn't coming back to you and she used you for the holiday and to get her car fixed, nothing more nothing less. So do what you need to do. Those feel good letters don't work and it takes two to make a marriage work. I was worried that she was scamming you and it has proven to be true.

Nice toosoon....nice... that will give him confidence...

That's not true Dazed.. even MM told you that there was GREAT progress....everyone believes MM so believe that there was a LOT of progress and I agree....

Whew.... DAZED...
DON'T GET A HAIRCUT
DON'T WALK DIFFERENTLY
DON'T WEAR MAN MAKE-UP
AND PLEASE... DON'T TELL YOUR POOR WW TO "Enjoy an eternity in he11" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
CALL HARLEY before you start thinking like this..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK

Okay, I've never been a plan B advocate for dazed, and maybe I'm still not, but Frank, you're not seeing reality here. Obviously dazed is in danger of losing his love for ww, right? Is that not a given? You've heard him say his fuse is getting shorter with her -- what does that tell you? And would you not agree that WW is dangerous for DDs mental health? She seems to be manipulating and using both DD and Dazed right now. I'd have to agree with the others, if not a plan B, then at least a makeover is in order. It bothers me that he continues to let her rant and complain about him without cutting off the "conversation" in a polite, yet firm manner. He's allowing her to disrespect him, and as long as he does, she will. And she's losing, not gaining, respect for him in the process.

Dazed, listen to the MB'ers who think things have gone far enough. Do call Steve Harley if possible, I'll agree with Frank on that one. But you CANNOT let her continue treating you and DD as she is. This is destructive and nothing good can come of it, including WW coming home. I believe she will not come home until she knows she can't treat you like **** with no consequences.

You are soooo in my prayers Dazed. You and DD will get through this, but things have GOT to change now. Please, don't let them continue like this. Take care,

WOM

Please help...we know you care..but let's not attack others ok? that poster was just wanting to save him from more pain..and thats all I am saying 2 u.

dazed,

plan B time is here friend. and it's time for you to take things in a positive direction. please don't get down. but get smart. you will be better in the end...whether ww comes to senses in an acceptable time frame for you or not...please know that ok?

you need to EXUDE CONFIDENCE right now...do the man-over thing...trust me. do that and end the plan a on a high note...and start disengaging. when she is disrespectful, hang up. say what I said to you to say to her.

teach her how to treat you...and since she is not acting as a mother should, the courts will reward (or NOT) her for her "motherly" behaviors.

let her reap what she has sewn...and you did a great plan a.

I just believe for her to come home, she must see door shutting quickly...and she must panic. that is what she must see.

she must think you've had some enlightenment..or you're becoming foggy too. see you've had some awakening in your life...you're really changing..make the outward and a few confidence tweaks and NOT serving the WW needs anymore may be all it takes? plus a dark plan b should have her running for the hills by february if you are smart.

remember when I said the darker you go the faster she comes home? that is where you are now...you kep off on the inevitable for so long..i know you are hurting. but now is NOT the time to show your pokerface. You gotta fake it until you make it ok?

man=over for dazed
new confidence
learn 10 new jokes and PRACTICE FLASHING a hollywood smile at perfect strangers. Just practice looking so darn happy. I will bet you forgot how to do that! it is attractive btw...and ww would think so.

get some new style...new haircut..maybe some hip reading glasses..new jeans..shirt, dress shirts, etc. and WEAR THEM TO COURT...WHEREVER WW IS..and begin to detach completely...and be happy...flash the smile. amuse her..but DETACH...make HER CHASE YOU..

memorize 180...

and just a few days before court...when she has SEEN the confidence, the new look...the new attitudes...and is already firmly acceptant now of your MB changes...she will think you are gonna be some catch...

she might think that at your job..the women at the watercooler will laugh at his jokes just like I do at work with guys..and think that ..OH NO..MY H IS GONNA BE SINGLE AND HE'S SO GREAT NOW..

it ain't over yet.

TOSS WW A TOTAL CURVE BALL IN THE LAST REMAINING DAYS OF CONTACT OK?

begin man over and detachment activities asap. and make sure your new "look" is seen all over town. and get dd some new clothes too...

make home serene and peaceful..NO ROOM FOR WS WHO DO NOT RESPECT FAMILIES AND PEACE.

ww knows she can return if she COMMITS TO NC, MOVES HOME, ENDS JOB W/OM, AND ALL CONTACT...she knows what to do.

and your plan b letter...

will show her how to get home...

and if she doesn't...one day she will re read the letter..and will keep it hidden from om locked away...and it will mean something to her about how she threw her life away...that's what my xh did...and does...he kept my plan b letter and hid it away from his mistress/wife. she knows he reads it. and it is so sad.

but we live to do better each day and we are only responsible for ourselves and our kids.

What dazed is doing today is not bringing his wife back to him. He must do a complete switch like the 180 degree approach. Take the opposite approach to what he has been doing.

Today, no matter how much his WW hurts him, Dazed says, "I love you no matter what you say or do to me". His WW continues to know she can have him anytime she wants regardless of what she says or does to him. What if her actions brought an expensive price, like the loss of her child to dazed and the loss of Dazed himself?

I believe in the Tony Robbins approach to human nature and that is when your actions bring you more pain than pleasure, you will make the necessary change to stop the pain. In Daze's case, Daze must ad pain to wife's affair or it simply won't end.

He resists the RO, Plan B, and he may or may not try and take the kids for fear of losing his wife forever. His fear is his worse enemy today. Once he looses his fear, he will say and do what is needed to end the marriage or the affair. Nothing is changing for him other than his WW brings more abuse to him as her pressure gets worse. Now is the time, since she is panicking, for Dazed to tighten the noose on the rope she put around her own neck.

Just my opinion. I got my wife back with a good Plan A supported by the threat to ruin her reputation and by implementing exposure to prove I would do more exposure. I brought pain, humiliation, and reality to the affair. The initial humiliation by exposure and the threat of more exposure caused more pain and humiliation on my FWW and that began to exceed the pleasure the affair had brought her in the first place. She ended the affair.

MM took away his kids from his wife. The pain from the loss of the kids exceeded the pleasure his wife received from the affair. MM didn't tell her he loved his wife so much that I will take you back whenever you are ready. No, he went for her jugler vain and took away his ww's lifeblood, her children.

When the pain exceeds the pleasure, the WW will make the change. Human nature 101.

TooSoon

JP
I didn't and have never attacked anyone here...just the advice that will HURT DAZED CHANCES OF restoring his Marriage....and that's all I'm saying 2u2

workin_on_me,
If you look back two posts you'll see I'm suggesting Dazed might be ready for Plan "B" too.. or SOMETHING.. modified as SH has said... the part that got my hair up and always has is that at the FIRST sign of trouble so many people jump in and tell him to "go dark"

Very few like MM and a few others have told him how to Plan "A" and then to tell him to be phoney and change who he IS because OM is like that or worse... to tell his WW to enjoy he!!.. that's just not good advice and is cruel...and... it WILL NOT WORK... it will destroy his GREAT Plan "A"

toosoon
I am a HUGE Anthony Robbins fan myself... totally agree with the pain/pleasure theory (if you look back I even posted that a long time ago to DAZED) But... all I'm saying is why NOT the PLEASURE... the PAIN is already there in that DAZED ignored her for so long... she needs to see pleasure to return....

All that venom she's spitting out his WW TESTING Dazed has REALLY changed... (AND HE'S PASSED EVERY TEST) I fear if he acts like you suggest she will simply say..."SEE... YOU NEVER WILL CHANGE"
I KNOW she's not playing fair... but WS's rarely do...

"Today, no matter how much his WW hurts him, Dazed says, "I love you no matter what you say or do to me".
It's not really that he'll love her NO MATTER WHAT she does...but...he loves her IN SPITE of the way she's acting (like a little spoiled brat) and his "disipline" is
"AS LONG AS YOU ACT LIKE THIS..... YOU ARE NOT A FIT MOTHER.... AND I WILL NOT TRUST DD WITH YOU.... THAT is Plan "A" to a "T" loving but firm on the IMPORTANT STUFF...

I also think DD (God love her) may be learning a little from her WM and that's not good... Dazed CAN and should disipline her kindly and not let her use this to get her way either....
BUT... I don't think he should teach his D that when things get tough in a Marriage you BAIL OUT.. and go dark either.
This is a VERY tough situation with the trial 5 days away and all/... that's why I think he needs SH..... It's OVER my head anyway... GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK

time to get focused, do like mm said...go into foxhole..

BUT GO INTO FOXHOLE FABULOUSLY...

leave a killer impression...look great. make ww think she's losing out on the secret catch of the century.

you have enough time to do it.

start tomorrow. change attitude. change looks.

and change verbage...make her think she's lucky to have had you.

and by all means...TELL ATTORNEY HOW WW AND WW MOM ARE MANIPULATING DD TO NOT SPEAK TO GA..that is hindrance of the legal system and manipulation and bad parenting if I've ever seen it.

it makes me wanna puke. how she can twist a young girl and scare the child into not telling the truth.

and the pain/change analogy is sooo right!

work it smartly dazed. ww sees you outside change...sees you smile all time...being charming...looking different...she kows the mb changes you've made...she then last but not least will see dd gone..and living with the most eligible bachelor dad in town!

that is the picture you must paint quickly...you can do it.

then go dark as night.

BTW Peach...
Your idea about a "man over" isn't too far off... I agree he should ALWAYS look happy when he sees her... and he BETTER not do the Man in sweatpants routine right now LOL... he should be "looking good" and he should look "happy" with the NEW IMPROVED DAZED HIMSELF... so she will see that it's REAL. And let's face it... if he doesn't like who he's become...how will ANYONE even his W.

BTW his WW hasn't worked with OM for a while now maybe you forgot..

AND... if Steve thinks it's time for some sort or Plan "B" finally... then I'm all for it and will help Dazed do as good a "B" as he did an "A" and the combo will bring this terrible nightmare to an end....
GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK

Folks, calm down. As JL said, it is time for Dazed, and everyone, to pull their head out at least a little.

All of you have made valid points. All of you have agreed on certain aspects of this. So, let's list those first:

1. Everyone agrees Dazed that if you can do it, you need to contact SH ASAP!! While some of us have become "experts" at this, we are not the master of this. SH has seen thousands of these cases, not tens or hundreds as I have.

2. Plan B is a coming!! Sure, we all disagree on exactly WHEN...but we can all hear that train rumbing down the track.

3. Protect your daughter!! No more of the WW's crap! Get your attorney on this ASAP. And as JL and others said, get ahold of your daughter. I am sorry and I KNOW how tough this is for her right now. But she is a 12 year old girl and you are the ONLY adult in her life. You are not her buddy nor her best friend. You are her Dad, and sometimes being Dad means being Mr. Unpopular with your daughter. So be it! Dazed, if that GAL gets an inkling that you are anything but a stellar father, you may lose your marriage and your daughter. And as others have said...I am not kidding! Be the man...be the Dad. You dont have to LB to do this...but you must stop all of this nonsense. Stop pushing the WW on your daughter. Stop trying to get WW to interact with your daughter. That woman is NOT your wife, and really isnt her mother right now. Your wife and her mother would have kicked this woman's a$$!! This WW just looks like your wife. If your WW wants to say "I'm not coming around DD anymore," then you let her. Peace in your daughter's life is the most important thing right now...not her continually being reminded how screwed up her mother is.

4. we all agree that you need to sit down and lay out the plan with your daughter. Teach her what you have learned about relationships, marriages, adultery, etc. Let her know that you are doing everything possible to save her family. She needs to know.

5. We also agree that you should never say "I'll be here always." That, sir, is a doormat! That is NOT Plan A.

----

Okay, now the stuff we dont necessarily agree on. Some on here have advocated going to Plan B for over a month. I have not thought that, nor has others. Neither has SH.

Some have advocated going to Plan B in order to force a crisis or to let her hit bottom. And while that is a byproduct of Plan B, that is NEVER the reason for doing Plan B.

Since I was named the Plan B Czar on here a few years ago because of my love for Plan B, let me say that Plan B can never be about retribution or hitting bottom. It is ALWAYS about saving the love the BS has for his/her WS.

For the last month, if you read Dazed's posts, he has been upset, for sure. He has been tired and emotionally spent. But I want everyone to look at those posts...and then match them to the last two posts by him. You will see a DRAMATIC change. A change that I knew was coming, and so did SH. Someone above even pointed out that Steve was only two days off on his prediction. He is the master, afterall!!

Go read, folks. Dazed's thread is a textbook lesson in how the MB approach works for affairs. His WW is the typical runaway wife. Dazed has Plan A'ed better than anyone I have read about on here. Certainly better than I did. So, read it. Get the flavor of what has been going on, get a flavor of the subtle changes that his wife has been making. And then look at the dramatic change today took.

Some say his wife is just using him, that there arent any changes. I say "not so." While she is using him, as all cake-eating adulterers do...there have been some rather dramatic changes to her over the time of this Plan A. Go back and read...she has moved. Dazed has deposited a whole bunch of love units. So much so that his wife is in EXTREME pain!!! And ooohhhhh how I love a WS who is hooked to the BS right before they go into Plan B. The pain will be excruciating!!

Look, I am NOT Steve Harley! I have learned a lot here and from him. And over time have gotten a good handle on this. this whole thing is a delicate dance and must be played in the right way. I have my own issues. Mr. and Mrs. Mortarman may end up not being together...that is always a very real possibility. Just because I Plan Aed and Plan B'ed my wife home doesnt mean we will resolve our problems and build a new marriage. We are trying. But what I did do is give my marriage a CHANCE to make it and to show myself, my God and my kids that I was willing to go as far as I could in order to make it work.

Now, Dazed.........

You have at least 15 sentences in the last two posts that tell me that your love bank is hemmoraging (sp?) big time! Your last post tells me that everything is flowing out, with you even stating the obvious that nothing has been coming in for a long time. It is this that we are looking for to tell us that it is time to go to Plan B. What did SH tell you? He knew that about this time, after Christmas and all of that Plan A, that you were going to get POed.

First off, no going off on your wife. Sure, she deserves it. But as Steve once asked me "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?"

Second, take care of daughter as outlined above.

Third, contact Steve ASAP.

Fourth, change the locks and WW is never allowed in the house with DD there again. That must be her safe place. If wife wants to visit, then she takes DD to the park or mall or wherever. Not in that home. Only your wife is allowed back in there, not WW. Once I went to Plan B, my wife had to pull up and honk to get the kids. One day she decided to press my Plan B, so she came to the door. When I opened it, and saw her standing there, I just said "Wait here," shut the door and left her outside in the cold, and gathered up the kids and sent them outside to her. Dazed, that is your home, your wife's home, your daughter's home. Would you let me come into your house and treat you and your daughter that way? Of course not. Then do not let this alien do it either. DO NOT LB though!! Just change the locks, and then matter-of-factly let her know what the rules are. You dont need to negotiate...just state what the rules will be.

Fifth, get your attorney on her butt ASAP!! Your attorney blasting her is not the same as you blasting her. You do marriage, he does divorce. Your WW must be stopped with this child abuse...and it is child abuse!!

Lastly, my friend...I know you are tired and POed. And confused. I have been there. I am a man that has walked in your shoes almost exactly. I know the doubts and the fears and the anger. If you and I were in the same room right now and you could look into my eyes, you would know that is true.

So, I am telling you to just calm down. This is just one more day. There is still a roof over your head, food on the table (by the way...do your job and get paid...please dont be irresponsible), a car to drive, a daughter to love, etc. Also Jesus loves you.

Oh yeah, one more thing I forgot about. There is still a marriage...and you still have a wife. She may still leave for good. But TODAY, you still have everything you had yesterday.

Count your blessings, Dazed. And then get up soldier, grab your pack and move on in your mission. No one can fight this war for you. All we can do is radio in advice. This is hand-to-hand warfare with the devil himself. Dont you fight fair, okay?!?! You rely solely on Jesus, you suit up, and then you take the fight to the enemy. No matter what happens in the end, you cannot lose by following that approach.

You have your orders now. You have the plan. Now execute.

In His arms.