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Joined: Sep 2005
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I'd like to throw something out there to you. How much do you know about your wife's childhood - teenage years? Maybe that's not the only question, How much does she remember about those years? I say this b/c a therapist would see some "red flags" being raised. A therapist would probably start probing to find out what's happened that's made her shy away from the sexual part of her marriage. Just a thought. . .

I'm glad your children keep you hanging in there.Their smiles and innocence make life lighter and more meaningful. (Although when they hit their teens you sometimes wonder?) My girls helped me make it one more day. So many times I thought about ending it all but then I'd be leaving my daughters with the same people I had so many issues with. Who would protect them? Not the best reason at the time to stay on the Earth but it kept me here until I got healthier.

Hang in there! I know it can be hard. When things seem really dark, reach out for some support. Read the children a book or make a tent house in the middle of the livingroom. Those tent houses were always good for a few laughs and surprises.

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I glad you decided to stay on Earth. I've never gotten that low because there are too many things I enjoy doing. My work and kids and hobbies are very fullfilling. My worst thoughts are only about ending the marriage.

The tent houses are great aren't they! And the tree houses, the spy clubs, the stuffed animal zoos,... They are true marvels! There is no greater feeling than snuggling up next to the kids and reading with them! Except for the good night hugs. Oh, and the huge smiles when I come home. Oh, and... OK it's all good when the kids are around!!

I really don't know anything about her teenage years. She doesn't talk about them at all. Her mother is a very negative, dominant, controlling person. Her mother is not a very loving, caring person. I can only imagine how much that negativity must have hurt her when she was growing up. And I'm sure she is trying to model her mother's behavior now. I almost ran when I met her mother and dysfunctional family, but I thought my wife could never turn into that!

She did break down once and told me she wasn't going to let her mother control her anymore. She also had a few boyfriends that used her.

Don't ever think of giving up! There are too many people that actually love and need us around.

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Quest Girl - You described me completely in your post! I am feeling, thinking all these things you have pointed out and just realzed them as I was reading them. I will for sure go and get the books you recommend - if just so I can communicate with my H - who I think is having an EA - maybe its all because we dont know how to communicate?! Wow! Thank you!


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I don't know if anyone is still reading this, but I just need to write down my thoughts. It helps me cope.

In her emotional needs questionnaire, my wife said she is happy not having sex and doesn't like my affection because she thinks it is false. She said she will only consider sex in a "marriage environment". OK, maybe it's just me, but I thought we were already married! I guess she has decided the marriage is over. Everyday she cuts out another part of my heart and throws it away.

Today was a good day with the kids. I helped out at their basketball games and football games. I got to take my oldest out to eat by myself. I love being around little kids!!

Our pastor has talked with both of us separately. He sees I have been making a sincere effort to fix the marriage and better myself. He said she is much too hard on me and she needs to at least acknowledge my efforts. He has said she is very hard hearted.

My birthday is coming up. #49. I wonder where I will be living next year when I hit 50. My best guess is she will be living in her big new house, and I'll be in a rented out room. One time after she had ranted at me, she left by saying she wanted me to leave but was going to get her main floor laundry! We have laundry in the basement now and she has been trying to build or buy a house with main floor laundry. It looks like that is the only thing she wants from the marriage.

She said if I built the new house for her we could have stayed together for another 10 years. I asked her what would happen after 10 years and she didn't say anything. It seems like after she gets her big house and the kids are gone, then so is she. So what incentive do I have for staying another 10 years? I do get to spend more time with the kids and be closer to them. Other than that, there really are no reasons to stay.

Thanks for listening!

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Today was a little easier. I slept on the couch last night, and she didn't say anything. She wouldn't talk to me all morning. After church she looked at me with the maddest look on her face. It really made her look old. I didn't realize how hard the years have been on her.

But then her female friends showed up, and she was suddenly happy and chipper and smiling. She wouldn't even introduce me.

I spent all day fixing things around the house and playing with the kids. She fixed us lunch and then ate standing up so she wouldn't have to sit with us.

Tonight I kissed the back of her head goodnight. And she just lay there and didn't move or say anything. I wish she would either decide to try to do something to save our marriage or leave. Why would she even want to stay married like this?

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Hi Heart,

I'm usually on the EN boards but popped over here today. Man, what a sad state of affairs. I admire your courage and strength.

Personally, I don't think the W deserves the new grand house and technically you are paying for it right? I wouldn't do it. The house won't be a 'home' and it won't make her happy. She's just occupying her mind and being selfish. Once she gets her house you will be dispensable (unless of course she can't pay for it).

I wouldn't move out either. She doesn't want the M then she is the one who pays the price, not you, not your kids. Your lives shouldn't be disrupted for her poor choices.

I agree, she is hiding behind her religion and I would use that to your benefit especially since she is. Point out the ways in which her religion show her that what she is doing is not right either. We don't get to bend and twist it to suit our wants and needs. It is what it is. We live by it or we don't. There isn't room for hipocrasy.

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I wish she would either decide to try to do something to save our marriage or leave. Why would she even want to stay married like this?


Tell her that. Burst her bubble and make her think. Don't make this fluffy and easy for her. Make her responsible for her actions and choices. As of now she gets it all. An H who bends over backwards, pays the bills, funds her expensive housing project and is accepting nothing in return.

Read up on boundaries and tough love. I agree not informing her of your church attendance and study into faith is a good idea. However, get some books like the Love Languages for couples and kids, maybe Harleys books and leave the around. That gives her the opportunity to educate herself as well as showing that despite what she CHOOSES to think, you are trying.

It sounds like she is trampling all over you and her heart is cold. I don't believe this all comes from just you and may have ALOT to do with her upbringing. People do often mirror thier parents. They don't realize it unless someone tells them. They don't know any other way to be unless someone shows them or they decide they want to be different and seek that out. Your W may never be the loving affectionate women towards you or your children but she doesn't have to be cold and indifferent.

Just my thoughts.

Symphony


[color:"purple"]Men go to far greater lengths to avoid what they fear than to obtain what they desire.
The Da Vinci Code

Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all.
Dale Carnegie

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Ralph Waldo Emerson[/color]
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Why would she even want to stay married like this?

With everything you described from this weekend, I'd be asking that question too! BUT - From what you say in your postings, she's got it pretty good. You play and watch the kids, you're building her a new home (with that 1st floor laundry) and you're the one that's trying so hard. What's happening that would motivate her to change?

What does the pastor and your therapist suggest to you? There has got to be a fine line between doing your best to be loving and supportive versus being a doormat.

I've had to look at what I've been doing that is hurting my marriage. My biggest fault is not setting boundaries! This is why I often feel resentful and like I'm a doormat. I've stopped focusing on trying to get my husband to see how verbally abusive he is, how self-centered he can be and how angry he gets at the world in general. Instead, I'm doing my best to tell him how something feels or affects me, especially if it hurts! To set the boundary if he's yelling that I'm going to leave the room, house, whatever it takes until he calms down. Because I just sit quietly sometimes and not share what's going on inside just allows him to repeat the behavior. When he yells, sometimes I cry, sometimes I withdraw, sometimes I yell back and sometimes I find hurtful things to hurl at him because I feel so hurt! None of this has helped solve anything.

In many ways my husband is very immature in certain areas. He doesn't take responsibility for the things he does. He trys to pin the blame on someone or something where ever possible. He also likes to control! When we first married, he would compare me to his X-wife if I did something he didn't like. I hated that and was always trying to prove him wrong by being nicer. From now on, if he should do that, I'm going to say that I don't feel respected when I'm compared to one of his past wives. (I still need to figure out what I can say that isn't pointing fingers and shaming as much as it's saying NO to the behavior.) Another thing that he would do is tell me he'd had enough and just get in his car and take off. This would send me into a panic and I would either call him on his cell phone or chase after him to come back. Needless to say, I try not to do those things any longer.

I never really learned to set boundaries. My mother was a very cold, manipulative needy person. Whenever I tried to set a boundary with her, she'd find a way to "guilt" me into doing it her way. In fact one time when I'd had enough and said I was leaving the house, she told me she would commit suicide if I walked. Needless to say, I was never allowed to grow-up and seperate from her. And because my mother lived in such a "fairy-tale" world I sort of picked up some of that thinking myself. Yuck!

So I'm getting another chance to learn what I didn't get to before. One of the problems I faced in my 1st marriage was that I was married to a man that had a difficult time expressing himself. As much as I wanted to know what he was thinking and get closer, he couldn't seem to do it. That's one of the things that drew me to my 2nd husband. He was able to verbalize his thoughts. For the first time in my life I was getting to hear what thoughts go on inside a man's mind. (Of course now I feel I get to hear all his thoughts and he doesn't stop and give me a chance to voice mine.) Go figure! Sort of reminds me of the song "Isn't it Ironic."

I'm glad you use this site to safely share and hopefully work out some of those thoughts and feelings that you're faced with each day. Hope things are more tolerable today.

Last edited by Questgirl; 10/10/05 08:52 PM.
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Thanks for the support! Today was a VERY good day. My wife was gone all day to class!!!!, so I was with the kids by myself all day!! She came home at 9pm and went straight to bed. I kissed the back of her head goodnight again (no response).

I loved being with the kids by myself! Hugged each one as they got off the bus, listened to their piano lessons, fixed them a steak dinner, said a great dinner prayer together, argued for 20 minutes about whether they loved me more than I loved them (they lost!), talked about how great my Dad was and how he is now in heaven (the kids seemed really excited about someday going to heaven, but I told them to enjoy their time here first), did homework together, practiced for a quizz on the constitution, read a book, got a snack, kissed them good night, ... and then grumpy came home.

My pastor says to keep showing her service and affection no matter what. And to keep loving her, either as a wife or as we are to love our enemy. It is her choice which way she wants to be loved. He thinks a marriage can be saved even if only one of the spouses wants to save it. That happened in his first marriage before his first wife died. I think he is also working with some of her connections at the church to get her to change. My therapist says that I can't change her unless she wants to change, so I just need to do things for myself and learn to deal with the lack of affection and lack of sex. She was telling me I might have to learn how to be celebate like a priest if I really want to keep the family together! I told her that keeping the family together was my main goal (at least for now). But my therapy has taught me to stand up to her and not let her control me. And not to let her anger hurt me. Lately, when she starts to rant at me, I'll say something calmly and leave (go biking or walking or fixing something in the garage). Then I just wait until she calms down. I used to withdraw to protect myself like you did, but that would just hurt me and the kids. They both think my wife's actions are from her feelings of inadequacy learn in her childhood. And she is projecting her anger at herself onto me.

My therapist has been giving me some lines to use when my wife is angry. Now I say things calmly (without returning the anger), like "I know that you think ..., but I disagree...", "It hurts me when you...", and using "I" sentences that don't attack back. But it's hard to remember to use them when things get tense.

Wow, it sounds like it was a nightmare for you growing up! How can a parent threaten suicide to their kids! I really feel your pain at growing up with that kind of controlling mother. I was lucky that my family was VERY happy, open, and caring. My parents were amazing!

I think it's really hard to find the right person for life, especially since both spouses are constantly changing. I think a marriage will only work if BOTH spouses are willing to try to grow together and aren't afraid of seeing their spouse change. And will still love them no matter how they change.

I'm sorry you've had such problems with your marriages. Why is it so hard to live a loving, peaceful, happy life with someone that has vowed to do that with you? We just need to find a way to become equal partners and true lovers (mentally and physically) and share our joys and sorrows.

Thanks for sharing. I hope this site is helping you too!

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My wife can't afford the house alone, that is why she needs me around. But we already have too much time and money into building it. Plus we sold our house and have to move.

I've been thinking about becoming more independent also. We usually go out to eat on my birthday. I'm thinking of asking her to stay home and telling her I would rather go with just my family (the kids).

I might skip Thanksgiving at her parent's house too. I would be happier spending the time helping at a homeless shelter. Her family knows we are having problems, and this might get her thinking. One sister has said she felt sorry for me in this marriage, another told me if I help my wife more with the house plans maybe my wife would cook for me (my wife had told her I should just be happy she cooks for me and raises my kids), and a sister-in-law was wondering why I was OK letting my wife build a huge house (I told her I didn't really care that much about money so I didn't care what my wife did with it).

If she just wants to stay roommates, then she can't expect me to act like the happy husband.

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"If she just wants to stay roommates, then she can't expect me to act like the happy husband."

I agree with you. Hang in there. I'm glad your children bring you such joy. That must help alot.

Symphony


[color:"purple"]Men go to far greater lengths to avoid what they fear than to obtain what they desire.
The Da Vinci Code

Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all.
Dale Carnegie

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Ralph Waldo Emerson[/color]
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I have a very fulfilling life: great kids, great job, good friends, interesting hobbies, many outside interests, excellent health, ...

I just wish I had someone special to share that joy with every day.

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Is it hard to find the right person or have many of us grown-up not knowing how to keep a relationship healthy? From my experience I'd say the latter.

Glad to hear that your day went well and I hope that you do get to share your joy with someone special. God knows what's in your heart!

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I think you are right. I think almost any couple can be the right couple if they are both willing to give everything to the other person, to communicate effectively, and to unconditionally love that person. Today there are just too many outside distractions and people no longer understand that their spouse and family are the reasons they do everything else. What good is a job and money and cars and toys without a family to share them with?

I just want that someone special to be my wife and the mother of my kids. So I guess I go back to work on the marriage. What else can I do to make myself a better person for her?

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Well, today we started on her half million dollar house. All I can think about is "why am I doing this for her??"! But it's too late to turn back now.

I started reading "Love Must be Tough" today. I guess I should have read it before we started building!

Saw my marriage counselor today and came to the realization that I wife just can't show affection. It's just not in her. How did I every end up with someone so cold hearted? And how did our kids turn out so warm hearted and happy with her around?

The kids got back their national exam scores today. They all scored in the 96th percentile for math!! They must have my math genes, since I was a math major! Plus my wife is actually a very good teacher for them.

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My wife slept on the couch again tonight. Our bed felt so empty, I went just got up and went to work at 4am. She didn't sit by me at church yesterday, and after church we went to different retaurants to eat lunch. She went with my daughter, and I took the boys somewhere else.

We did go out to eat supper together, but she would only talk to the kids. I'm almost done reading 'Tough Love'. Just not sure how to get tough without breaking up the family. Our kids are too young yet to handle that.

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Kids adjust...AND

It's better for kids to live with two happy parents in two happy separate homes than together in one very unhappy home.


Me, 43
DS18, DD12
Divorce final May 10, 2007
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But are house is not very unhappy now. She's unhappy and I'm unhappy, but we avoid most conflict. The kids don't see us upset, we are civil around the kids, and they do see me showing affection and writing notes to my wife. So they know I do love her.

Our house is actually very happy, just more like a dorm happy instead of a family happy.

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Read Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders by Harley - or at least a review.

It would be a good basis for understanding more of what is happening with you.

You may have made mistakes in the past or even now - but it seems that you are making efforts and she is not.

I can discuss any of the "spiritual" aspects if you care to.

To begin by pointing out one. If you walk away from her as the "unbeliever" she names you to be, she has no obligation to you and is free to marry again.

work closely with the folks that are supposed to have input with her that she chooses to be influenced by.They will be your best allies.

Read the thread on Emotional Needs by River Girl for a substantial success story in progress.

No one book - influence from many directions and from within...

c

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Thanks, I haven't read the book yet, but I'm guessing I'm a buyer and she is a renter. I'm in this no matter what, so I've bought it and want to keep it and fix the things that don't work. She is a renter and is in this until she is unhappy and desires something better. Did I capture what the book is about?

I've been working with a top person in her church. I realized early on that she wanted me to be the 'unbeliever' and push me away so she could remarry. The person at the church is ready to confront her on her beliefs because he has seen both sides and knows she is trying to split us up.

Right now I'm not even sure I want her back. I don't want to be with someone that I make unhappy and that does not want to be with me. Maybe it would be better to shelf my beliefs and walk away. It's been too many years since she cared for me. It's too hard to constantly be the only giver in the marriage.

I've been looking everywhere for answers and support. Counselors, pastors, books, forums, friends,... Together I think they are starting to help.

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Yes, pretty much: freeloader "I'm hear as long as it doesn't cost me anything, and I like it - but if it does I'm outa here.

Renter: I will "pay rent" but if something needs to be fixed, fuggedaboutit, I'm outa here.

Buyer: committed, works to fix what is wrong and find ways of improvement...

That is the title - getting a clear picture of LoveBank accounts and the dynamics of what happens when different combinations of the above 3 occur - is better yet.

2 statements I hear you say that govern you strongly -
" I'm in this no matter what,..." and "Maybe it would be better to shelf my beliefs and walk away."

It may be that you are something like me - a mistake that I have made with my life - if you want to call it that - is, and this will be some hard to describe - is to be governed by a set of beliefs - to the point that you become detached from your beliefs. The Beliefs are what you "want" to be but aren't, exactly - but you have learned how to live with it anyway.

My picture is something like I see people's involvement at "church". They are committed to the institution of church but not really a dynamic relationship with God. They know what it is supposed to look like and are more committed to what is in their minds "eye."

Just so, I have been committed to the institution of marriage and the set of beliefs that go with it - so as not to have any option other than what is inside that belief set.

I guess that has kept me married these nearly 30 years - and but it has short circuited me being me - offering a relationship of honesty and transparency. One might think of "hiding behind a set of beliefs."

A new book is read, a new hope for a better relationship - if we could only get on the same page. etc.

My wife shares somewhat the same fault. But why wasn't this woman responsible for the tongue lashings i got even if it was during "that time of the month?" Because it is that time of the month is her responsibility checked at the door?

Now you have more than that time of the month to deal with at you ages - menapausal symptoms will trash you like a stray dog in a butcher shop trash can.

Coming to the place of being buyers early on in your marriage would have better prepared for this. "Now it is winter and you don't have proper clothing." Neither of you.

The emotional "knowledge" that has been embodied while keeping an outward "belief" system that has displaced honesty in the relationship - works in a wierd way:

"I am doing what is right but it is not working - and (possibly) after all, this is what I am supposed to do and God is supposed to make the difference."

Having a fear of looking like you don't have that belief system or looking like a unbeliever - may have you trapped in a squirrel cage - running, running - "hey, I've been here before..."

more later.

c

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