Mel,

I know it walks like a duck and talks like a duck but she doesn't. (affair) How does she ever get to see it this way? What has to happen?

Is it normal for her to have her head in the sand and not call it such. I am sure she does not want to talk about it because it makes her realize what a terrible thing it was that she did.

Heck, I can't even get her to consider MB anymore much less aggree on a plan and what it is called.

You know, w, she already says she wants to leave. That should not be a reason to avoid a chat with your FIL. Your FIL is doing business with the OM not knowing that his D had an affair with this man. And is probably facilitating an affair without even knowing it. Do you imagine that your in-laws would have any reason to prevent her from contacting him over there?

I think they very much need to know the truth. That exposure might just wake your wife up somewhat.

What happened is that she is deep in a fogland and wants very much to pretend like it never happened. What bothers me is that she is behaving like someone who is IN an affair, W. All the signs are here. The hostility, the sleeping in another room, the threats when you bring it up. This does not even sound like withdrawal, but someone who is in an affair.

She does not resemble someone who is remorseful, much less someone who is in withdrawal.

Why am I getting a sense here that WW wants you to be estranged from her parents? Could I be reading that correctly?

Mel,

Don't get me wrong. I truely believe my WW told them about the "inappropriate relationship" phone calls, kissing and all, but I really think just as she does that FIL and possibly MIL does not see it as an affair either.

I mean it is like SH said. When I say things to my wife she can't hear them because they are coming from my lips. I am thinking the same is true with my FIL and possibly MIL. They want to believe it was just a another mistake their daughter made and BTW, this is the 2nd time it has happened that they know about and I must surely be this horrible controlling demanding jelous husband. I just don't think my FIL gives a rip at all.

A couple of years ago we thought he was in the beginnings of Alseimers (spelling?) (his mother had it) but I thought it was depression over business matters and his other daughters horrible divorce and sitch. Now I think he has just become mad and spiteful at the world. Even other people have seen that in him.

I know, but I have no evidence at all. I am not around her every waking moment but the OM is 3 or 4 hours from our town. She has not gone to a horse show and I have not been able to find any evidence of A. In fact she seems to have softened her edge somewhat.

You could be. I know she does not want me to approach them about our "problems" because she thinks that would make the family sitch even worse if we did have a chance of working things out. We have a big Christmas Eve at her parents coming up. Much like our Thanksgiving that we have always done. Only, I am not boycotting if you know what I mean.

w, how does she feel this would make the family sitch worse?

Mel,

Basically she knows her Dad is a stubborn man and if we work things out he will be ok with me and act like he is ok with me as long as it is something she wants, but if I go to him and try to tell him about our issues and be sure he is clear she knows he will bow his back and it will be something he will hold against me from now own making our estrangement from her parents permenant.

I remember a few years back her Dad did something I did not like and he found out about my disapproval with it, he basically blessed me out for my opinion and he said he did not care and if I didn't like it I could lump it.

My wife was torn to pieces about this. She was upset, cried, family will never be the same, etc....... She really overreacted in my opinion, but her perception is reality.

So I guess she just thinks if we make it past this, no need to make things worse in the family than they already are.

Her family is pretty disfunctional to be honest. Her mother is a perpetual liar and hides things like shopping sprees from her husband, bills, etc.... Her Dad is controling and only his opinion matters and never listens to reason. He knows it all. Her brother and sister both had marriages that ended in divorce. Her brother was the BS, her Sister was the WS and now my wife is a WS. What a mix huh?

I know it all sounds screwed up and I would like to clear the air, but I am trying to think how I could do that without making her so angry that we can't continue to move forward.

Hi Waiting,

What is bothersome to me about the next issue is it's about parents. I know parents are very important. But don't we leave our parents when we get married. I mean not physically. I don't think all of parents opinions should be taken into account when in marriage problems.
And parents can become a real wedge in the marriage if not careful..


It's your marriage. You are adults. Your wife is looking to much to her parents guidance and opinions which might not be healthy guidance. I hope she realizes that. Her decisions cannot be based on what the parents think, say, and do.

I hope she is not just using them as a scapegoat to make you feel guilty again by saying "this is what my parents think about you and our marriage. So this is the way it is." That is so unfair to you. (remember you haven't talked to them at all, so how much do you think she says is true). How do you know they think it was no big deal if you haven't talked to them. Maybe she doesn't want you to talk to them. I don't know...

Remember, tell her how you feel....

I feel (sad, hurt, angry) when you bring the parents opinions into our marriage, as much as I love them, parents should never be used as a wedge between a marriage, it's not fair to us or to them.

Lady

Lady

She is not bringing her family into it at all. In fact we hardly discuss her family and what they think.

The way this came up is she kept it from me for about 3 weeks that her dad sent all of his horses to the OM's barn for training. To me this was information she should have shared. I am hurt by what her Dad did but not at her. She says her parents and what they do have nothing to do with us and I aggree.

But, what is the motive for the OM to stay away from my wife if he obviously is currently doing business with my FIL.

My wife talks to her Dad all the time about horses and how the training is going and what the trainer is doing. Is that just not keeping the OM at the forefront of her mind.

Also, if we had any hope of me joining her one day in a hobby she enjoys, I can't see that happening as long as OM is that involved with FIL and MIL. It makes me sick.

My FIL and MIL just does not see what my wife did as having an affair. I know how they think. They think I just need to get over it and I am overreacting or something like that.

I could just scream I am so frustrated. I know now why my wife is having such a difficult time getting over things and us moving in a positive direction.

She loved horse shows and she is smart enough to know that her Dad pretty much has made it where she will have to choose me or the horses and showing because she knows I will never go for having anything to do with OM with her or myself. Heck if I saw him today I am not sure what I would do.

I know that is going to do no good. I have been there before on other issues. Should I just ignore the problem?

Dear FIL,
Waiting, I drafted this letter which you may find useful should you decide to say something to FIL. I would personally consider waiting a few more weeks in recovery until you get WW to actually admit, through counseling, that her inappropriate relationship was actually an affair. I think she is in denial right now.

Mr. W


Dear FIL

It has recently come to my attention that you have placed all your horses for training with Mr. ____. It is also my understanding that WW informed you a couple of months ago that she had an "inappropriate" relationship with Mr. OM (I called it an affair as it was a secret relationship that included a deep emotional bond and kissing/hugging but that is our issue to resolve).

I am writing you today to inform of the impact your decision has on my family. Wife and I are working diligently at restoring our marriage from the damage caused by their inappropriate behavior. As a condition of reconciliation we have agreed that Wife is to have "No Contact" with OM for the rest of her life or as long as she is married to me. "No contact" was recommended to us by professional counselors as a requirement for marital reconcialition. As such is the case if OM continues training your horses then wife must not only choose to not ever see OM nor ever go/perform at horse shows where OM may be present but must also withdraw herself from your horses as the risk of seeing OM there would be too great. Additionally, our children will be necessarily deprived of contact with your horses less they be exposed to OM.

Though personal hurtful to me, your decisions are completely yours and I respect that. I do not in any way claim any right to tell you what to do or whom to do business with. That is not my place. However, my place as the head of my immediate family has required us to make uncomfortable choices as a consequence of your decisions.

I do not believe you intended to be hurtful and I realize that going back on your decision now may be uncomfortable. I know you are aware of the destructive nature of extamarital relationships and I hope you will reconsider your decision. I hope you decide to place your horses with another trainer as OM is a danger to your daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren. He has disrespected OUR family with his actions and removal of your horses and the fees you pay him is but a small consequence of his actions. That being said, I will respect your decision either way.

I truly love our entire extended family and hope for continued peace as we all try to overcome and resolve our intrapersonal and relationship issues whatever they may be. I have no intention of battling or otherwise debating this issue with you. I merely wanted to clearly and respectfully state my opinion and provide you with additional information so you can make whatever appropriate decision you see fit.

Respectfully,
Waiting on Love

Waiting. I agree with Mel. You can't afford to allow your wife to lay the B/S on to her parents. And also, as they say, name the baby - it was an affair. Denial. Don't you love it. Of course it has connotations but that is exactly what it was. And it was Sexual if there was kissing involved - I'm sure we aren't talking about a peck on the cheek.

Mr. W

Thanks so much for you letter. I can tell much time was spent and many thoughts. I really like the letter. I have an appointment with SH the week of Christmas. I am going to pray about the letter and see what God says about me using it. Our MC (not SH, the other one) suggested I might not ought to address this issue with FIL because it does not endear me to my wife. I know it will be a blowup. I like the approach you took though.

I am just so tired of feeling like the bad guy if you know what I mean. I came to a conclusion. I am guilty of 2 things. My problem was is I have been too good of a father (if that is possible) where I poured so much into my children at the expense of my wife. I also meet needs of my wife, but meet needs that were not her top needs and was negligent at meeting her top ones. was great because it is a top 4 need for both of us. I was oblivious to her lack of love deposits she was not recieving.

I just hope it is not too late. Our present MC thinks she is just not willing to put anything into the marriage.

Last night I was looking on our laptop for some pictures for my brother. I came across photos from the last 3 years, holidays, vacations, sporting events, non events and just looked at them and how happy we seemed together. She looked so happy. My memories are of happiness, laughter, etc... The memories of vacations are particularly painful as it triggers thoughts of fun things we did together, wonderful SF and affection. Just all kinds of good things. I was just affixed on looking at them. Gazing into her eyes on the photos I could almost feel her love for me and it was a warm feeling. I could imagine her arms around me and her head buried on my chest when we hugged. Her body laying next to me under the covers. It was almost real, looking at the photos.

Then I looked at our Thanksgiving pictures from last month and see smiles but no fond memories. Her eyes don't even look the same. Her face is drawn downward despite the smile in the photo. It is just so painful.

Today is our 21st Anniversary. It is pretty sad. Last night we ( all 4 of us) watched a movie last night. Catch me if you Can. We laughed and had a good time watching it. Then everyone went to bed. My wife again went in the spare bedroom. It just made me sad. I went to our room and sat down and just teared up. I have not cried in a number of days.

After I dried up I wanted to tell her "I still loved her".

I went in her room and sat on the side of the bed and it took me several moments to be able to say anything. I told her "I just wanted to let you know I still Love you". She sat up and said she knows and hugged my back. I then told her "You are the best thing that ever happened to me" Then I teared up. She said no she isn't. I told her "yes you are". She rubbed my hair, hugged some more, rubbed my hair and kissed my head.

I just walked out after that and went to our room. Whimpered some more and then went to bed. (I felt so weak and alone last night)
I could not sleep all night thinking about our anniversary and all the years of good memories we have had.

Today is so hard.

Wow Waiting, What a sad painful night for you. I don't understand....what the heck is her problem.

Why is she continueing to do that to you? There has to be something more to it for her to sleep in the other room. Has she been sleeping in the other room since D-day?

How long does she think you all can go on like that. Doesn't she see the pain she is still causing?
Why is she still staying so seperated from you?

Lady

Lady

I really don't know why she is doing what she is doing. She says she doesn't want to hurt me. She knows she is. I really think she wants to have some feelings, but she wants to come about them her own way.

She just does not want to force anything or work on anything. She has it in her mind that it will just happen I guess. Kinda like it just happened when we first meet and when she had her A.

What she is forgetting is there was proximity (closeness) in both situations. The beginning or our relationship and her A.

I just don't think she is going to have those feelings without trying. For example, we hugged as I left the house this morning. She even kissed me on the cheek. I could tell when she was hugging that she was either feeling something or wanting to feel something. Just by the embrace.

We always would go off for our anniversary. We would go to the big city or mountains. Last year we went to Mexico. I planned our 20th for 2 years. We had an awesome time. Then 3 months later she is in the beginnings of an affair. I just don't get it. None of this makes sense. If you asked 100 people we know, that have known us since High School they would be shocked if they already did not know what was going on. It is so out of character. It is like she developed a different personality.

We have been together since 1979. She was 14 and I was 17. Broke up once when she was 15, niether of us could stand it. Got back together and have been together ever since. Married in 1984. This is all just so sad and crazy.

Waiting,
I am so sorry for what you are going through. Reading your post I almost teared up for you. But I want you to know I prayed after reading it and I thanked God for wrapping his loving arms around you so that you would know that you are not alone. I know.....believe me I know too well what you are going through. It is so very hard. But let me try and offer a ray of hope and some perspective. What you are going through right now is the toughest part. How long this tough part will last I cant predict. But do know this.....it gets better. You will get stronger no matter which way this goes. You cant make your W react the way you want her to react. It is up to her and she has to make choices that she will have live with the rest of her life. But what you can do is accept God's loving embrace and that will make each day better. You are not alone. You have support here and more importantly you have God's love...which will never ever go away or falter or waiver. It is rock solid and through his love you can be rock solid as well. I will continue to give thanks to God for the miracle he is going to perform in your life. We know not what the miracle will be.....but it is coming. Have faith my friend.

WCNTexas

Thank you so much for your prayers and comfort. I really need it today. I have always been a confident man that was always sure of myself. Not proud or cocky, but just sure footed and comfortable with my decision I make and handling problems.

I have never been an emotional guy. (except when watching Field of Dreams, I cry like a baby because of the similar sitch with my Dad and baseball)

I just am having a hard time bearing the thoughts that my wife may leave our marriage. I mean it really hurts when she says something like "I am not attracted to you anymore." She says I am handsome, but she is not attracted to me. That just cuts me to the bone.

I am just a wreck today but trying to hold it together. I run a business, teach Sunday School, am an active person in the community and an active father with my children. I would do anything to keep my family together. It means the world to me.

I just don't understand why she would want to leave when I have always tried to do the right thing.

Be considerate, humble, loving, firm when needed to be, always there for my kids, try to protect my wife and family, make a good living, provide a warm home and good vehicle to drive.

I have always stood for what is right (good), never sided with what was evil (intentionally).

Always told her I love her, flowers on special occasions, would lay down my life for her and my children and anyone else in our family and even some friends.

Love my country, my community our children's school and our church.

I am about 25 lbs heavier (since our wedding) than I should be according to charts but people don't consider me overweight.

I guess I have to quit trying to make sense of it, since it doesn't make sense in the 1st place.

It just doesn't make sense.

I want to pull my hair out. I have to shake the cobwebs from my brain and the images of putting a gun to my head to stop the hurt. (Don't worry, that will not happen, but I do fight them and I am on AD's)

I guess today things are just tough because of the day it is. Our 21st Anniversary. I wish I could have skipped it. I think I would have felt better.

Thank you again so much WCNTexas. My faith is what keeps me going. I hope and pray for other here also. So many are so hard to read. It breaks my heart. God is good and I know that.

God bless you for caring.

What are you going to do about exposure to your fil & mil?

I'm praying for you today. Hang in there mate. Somethings gotta break soon.