Something that I think is just as important and hasn't been discussed at all...HOW are you telling your H no, BL?

Are you saying..."I'm not ready yet, I love you but it's just too soon and I'm working on trying to get to the point where we'll BOTH be comfortable and able to enjoy each other that way."

Or are you saying..."You had your fun with someone else, and now I don't want you and may not ever again!"

Or as you'd said earlier..."There's the bathroom..."

Think about how YOU would take the first one vs the others...

So what message are you giving your husband...and what message do you think he's receiving from you?

THAT is the true crux of the matter here. IMHO

***********edit**************

Look who's making assumptions. I assure you Mr_Incredible is quite eloquent in expressing and identifying his needs, I was surprised that his second most important emotional need is COMPANIONSHIP. Where was I during the beginning of his Affair? Going to school fulltime and working a 30hr part-time job. We passed like ships in the night. HMMM. Anyone know how to do addition? I caught on to the new math. Spend a lot of time with my Husband!! (MOW was glad to spend every waking free moment of her time with MY Husband while I was heavily occupied. She even sent her H out of town to give herself more time to MY husband.)

It's all about you, isn't it.

I'm not one who wants to argue, I just try to carry on a discussion and ask questions. I'm assuming in your post Mr_Incredible was your husband. I think he identified his need because he was thrown into the situation, not because he was asked what his number 2 need was. In other words he found himself alone wanting companionship and he started seeking it. Had you asked him prior could he have said, don't start going to all these classes and working I need you here? If he could have related that feeling then maybe the situation could have been different? Is that possible?

I probably need a different thread on men and their feelings. I know some will disagree with me, but I have done a lot of work in this area and men typically don't relate to feelings. Ask your husband tonight to name off a list of feelings and see how many he can name. Make your own list first and see who has the most. It's an interesting comparison.

oh my goodness!

"Having issues with conversation during our recovery. DDay was 6/7 and WH moved back in mid July. In IC and MC since this time. Just trying to heal internally and start fresh with WH but not ready for conversation. WH is putting pressure on me stating that he has needs to and we can't just ignore the subject."

"Having issues with admiration during our recovery. DDay was 6/7 and WH moved back in mid July. In IC and MC since this time. Just trying to heal internally and start fresh with WH but not ready for admiration. WH is putting pressure on me stating that he has needs to and we can't just ignore the subject."

"Having issues with honesty during our recovery. DDay was 6/7 and WH moved back in mid July. In IC and MC since this time. Just trying to heal internally and start fresh with WH but not ready for honesty. WH is putting pressure on me stating that he has needs to and we can't just ignore the subject."

"Having issues with affection during our recovery. DDay was 6/7 and WH moved back in mid July. In IC and MC since this time. Just trying to heal internally and start fresh with WH but not ready for affection. WH is putting pressure on me stating that he has needs to and we can't just ignore the subject."

Your husband is right -- you can't just ignore it, just like you wouldn't ignore it if it were any of the needs in the examples above. You have to work on it.

Mel is right. And please read what Neak said -- its profound (its not gonna be easy later)
And Lem asked the best question of all --
Do you want to reconcile your marriage???

If you do, then both of you must commit to meeting each others most important needs (in the way they want them met) In order to fall in love and stay in love, you need to be the one meeting his needs.

Broken, I know that AskMe and Kitten are validating you. (This is a marriage building site, and advice is given on those principles -- please educate yourselves further rather than argue with the posters who KNOW this stuff)
But please consider the advice given to you by Mel and Lem and Neak and 10S and ComfortblyNumb and KDS.
They may not be telling you what you WANT to hear, but they are telling you what you NEED to hear.


** setting down pom-poms and running back to the corner **

That is what my husband say.. that his fleash and mind say why stay but his spirit says stay. it is a hard time that you are going through. he has vialated you and betrayed you. but if you love him and want a healthy relationship. You have to move forward. and it is true about meeting eachothers needs me and my husband have leard this for the last10 months to put our selfs aside and consider eachothers needs. witch takes talking and meeting in the middle. He is the one who has hurt you . And you are choosing to work it out so if he loves you he will hang in there but in the mean time you need to figure out what boundreys you can allow to be pushed aside to.sex is the number one thing that conectes two people it stirs up that love for eachother.Its true you dont have to have sex but that is what helps keep the fire burnning. it doesnt have to start out with sex. Tell him how he can help you get to that place faster. start with telling him to complement you tell you what you mean to him and for him to tell you all the time he made a mistace and is sorry, he can never say sorry to much.This is what my husband has told me and so I ask him when he is having a hard time how can I help you. he normaly tells me to just hold him. You husband needs to realize you have horrible thoughts all day long that are over wellming and so its hard. But you need to face your fear and find away to over come it.You meched he can go to the bath room yes he can but its not the same doing that there is no conection with each other. talk touch and sex are healing things. it might be hard at first and make you feel ekey but it does heal in time.

AskMe, this is where I think you are confused and why I have asked you numerous times to read about the concept of emotional needs. You are not distinguishing between "feelings" and emotional needs and don't have the slightest understanding of Marriage Builders principles.

You are talking about feelings, we are talking about emotional needs. They are different things. We are not talking about sad, happy, angry; we are talking about actions that faciliate emotional happiness that leads to love, such as conversation, admiration, attractive spouse, sexual fulfillment.

These are easily identifiable by taking the emotional needs questionaire. Men have no trouble identifying their most important needs that bring them happiness in a marriage.

Please read up on it so you understand what we are talking about. I have given you the links. I think you will find that "Dr. Harvey" is one smart fella. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Lexxy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have you taken the MB EN Questionnaire? You seem a bit clueless about it. Have you read all the material on this site? Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


I don't see how this is actually relevant. Yes it may be hard for a man to rattle off a list at the drop of a hat, but when comparing different needs and their value to him he becomes extremely eloquent. I think most men can do that. He's wonderful at writing letters, and being affectionate with me, he is not the sort of closed-off backward person you seem to assume most men are.

AskMe,

""You know why sex comes up as a number 1 EN for guys, it's because they don't know how to express their true ENs. Guys can't relate to feelings, but they know what feels good. A sex addict can prove it. Sex addiction is not about sex as strange as that sounds, its about the emotional needs. Guys just can't express feelings so researchers end up hearings sex as number 1.""

Lady, I don't know what kind of research you do, or on who, but that paragraph is about as "WACKY" a statement as any I have seen.

If you work in a prison, counseling sociopaths I might understand where you are coming from. Mayb you do.

AskMe??? Ask you? I think not!

k

Sorry if I was mistaken to be a lady, I happen to be a guy and a recovering sex addict. I am quite familar with sex addiction. Sex addiction is not about sex.....do some research or I will be glad to point out the websites that indicate the same thing.

BL, et al

You have your needs and your H has his. If you are in Plan A where you are to meet his first 3 ENs to the max then his SF should be met, according to the MB rules.

If he is back, truly remorseful and totally committed to rebuilding the M, he should be empathetic to your "feelings"!

He is/was the badboy. He should "RESPECT" you and understand your pain and deep hurt, and not demand SF until you are comfortable.

As with rape victims, sexually intimacy is slow to recover and must be achieved with baby steps. It is said that infidelity can be compared with rape. (maybe worse)

The wounds of infidelity are numerous and deep and take time to heal. He SHOULD be aware of what he has done to you. And he SHOULD want to help you heal and be empathetic to your "feelings". He SHOULD put his need for SF aside till you are ready. In a perfect world.

If he is demanding SF then he is a selfish ******. The kind AskMe describes in her wacky paragraph.

But, I also agree with Mel, that withholding the SF is not bringing him closer to you. Something you and he must talk out and work on. MC would be a perfect place for this.

IMHO

k

Askme,

""Sex addiction is not about sex.....do some research or I will be glad to point out the websites that indicate the same thing.""

Sorry, Dude. I don't really feel the need to do any research on sex addiction at this time.

Your wacky paragraph said to me:

Sex addicts don't know how to express their own feelings.
Guys can't relate to feelings, but they know what feels good.
All guys are sex addicts.

Glad you are recovering! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

k

Oh, sorry for the confusing structure. Writing and work sometimes don't mix. Never meant to mean all guys are sex addicts, my apologies.

Wasn't trying to push the research, it was just a point I was making about emotional needs. A sex addict searches out to meet emotional needs, not sex. For me it was to find validation and admiration. Those emotional needs were unmet in my childhood and carried forward into adult life. So I sought out affairs trying to meet those needs.

Been doing great in recovery for several years with the wife. Thanks for the encouragement.

DISCLAIMER:
The words that follow are my personal opinions, interpretations, suggestions, etc. They are likely not to be in keeping with MBs' ideas and concepts. If you're easily influenced by others or are looking for input based strictly on MBs' concepts, I would strongly suggest that you not read this entry.



ML,
I am appalled to think that you think I have that much power over BL. She's an adult who can sort out people's opinions, advice, Marriage Builders principles, etc. I'm just not that powerful of a person.

I am appalled to think that you think I'm just trying to tell BL what she wants to hear. I don't know her. Why the heck do I care what she wants to hear?

I am appalled to think that your questions, suggestions, and opinions have been strictly about having or refusing sex. BL said "My WH doesn't want me to just go through the motions, he wants the connection intimately, too." If her WH wants intimacy along with the sex, then I feel that some of my sharing was accurate in terms of things that help create feelings of intimacy, e.g. resolving trauma, good boundaries. BL could go through the motions, the physical act, and the feelings of intimacy might return. The "fake it til you make it" idea. But, BL already stated that she tried that initially and it made her feel "dirty". I believe that Dr. Harley addresses some of this issue when discussing SF as not just the spouse being "willing" to have SF, but "desiring" SF. I'm not an expert on MBs concepts like yourself, so I could be totally off base.

At no time have I tried to present my opinions as coming from a Marriage Builders perspective. I have dealt with many trauma survivors. What I shared is relevant and accurate to working with people who have survived and healed from trauma.

Individuals need a sense of "autonomy" in order to feel safe enough to engage in intimacy. Good boundaries help establish and support autonomy and, ultimately, intimacy.

I am appalled at myself that I don't measure up to your standards! Guess you'd better get that 2x4 out and wack me alongside my head a few times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Haven't been around for a reeeaall long time, but this struck a chord. I am somewhat confused with ML's adamant belief that
the BS needs to "Lie down and take it". Not everyone rebounds so quickly that they trust the WS enough to want to have SF.

I responded to my WH's EA with more passion and SF then he knew what to do with....then ends up telling me that it doesn't mean anything to him.....that he realized he is just using me. WOW.....guess what that did to my self-esteem.
Now 1 year past Dday....we are still seperated and he still tries to intiate SF with me. On one hand I say....well this might just be the thing that brings our marriage back to the table and I still love him...so why not. Then I also have to wonder if it isn't just another bootie call. If my daughter was involved with a man that treated her like crap, but was always looking to get laid....what then...tell her, "Gee hon, maybe if you just gave him a few more BJ's he might actually start treating you like the beautiful person you are"...I think not.

Don't get me wrong...I believe we should do whatever it takes to meet each others EN...even if it is just a guess with WS's that don't tell you what they need. But when things sre still so fresh and the hurt still raw...all I can say is tread very lightly and don't rush.

Marriage is all about give and take. Maybe BL really doesn't "desire" her husband anymore and maybe she should think hard about compromising her sense of self to someone she may just not want to be with. It is her call and no one
should be forcing her hand...especially not her husband.

Hello to everyone who reads this. I am Brokenloves husband and wanted to respond to this. The main question for me at this point was if brokenlove wanted me in this relationship. I havent demanded or implied that aqll I want is my need for SF satisfied. However, I have felt that my needs have/are being ignored. Brokenlove can not commit to me. I wish that she coulc. I have done everything that I know to do to save this marriage and the bottom line is this: brokenlove doesnt want this marriage. She wants our family, but not a relationship as husband and wife. I cant do that. It isnt fair to either of us or our three children. I was/am willing to give her time to heal, but she really isnt committed to that. She just wants our family unit to stay as is. I realize that I am the screw up here. I did this. But to recover, I believe that one has to want to.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. I wonder why she would bother posting here if she doesn't want to save her marriage.

What steps have you taken (actions, not words) to restore the marriage? Maybe we can help you out.

Therapy, read all of Harley's books and others, and have tried really hard to meet her emotional needs. I just think that she is closed off to this and any type of REAL recovery. I dont know what else to do.

Have you answered all of her questions about the affairs? Have you figured out why you cheated? How you can keep it from happening again?