Dos his phone have caller ID?

No caller ID on his phone.

He just took it back out to his car, I think.

What bothers me about your situation is

- Your husband sleeping in another bedroom. I can pinpoint the day that my husbands affair started. We had had a big fight and he slept in another bedroom. Normally, the next night he would be back in the bedroom. He did not come back for one week, and only because I cajoled him to. It is not normal for him to be sleeping in another bedroom.

- These card nights on Friday. Where are they held? Who is normally there. Can you verify and can you drive past to see if his car is there.

During my husbands affair, I found some lyrics to a love song in one of his pockets. It was very unusual for my husband to have this. I confronted him and he like your husband looked me straight in the eye and said he had downloaded them from the internet. They were from a particular CD. He was so casual and matter of a factish. I believed him. It had been sent to him by the OW to describe her feelings for him.

To this day, I cannot believe how convincing he was. I believe our FWS become professional con men.

I would be snooping. Your husband sleeping in another bedroom sends alarm bells out to me.

It has sent alarm bells to me for quite some time, I think I am deaf to them anymore. Plus, many people have told me that they sleep in other rooms from their spose for perfectly legitimate reasons. So, I endure.

Evertime I have asked WH when he will come back to sleep in our room, his answer is "I don't know." Last year, I finally decided to make it a place I liked rather than despised and I painted it my favorite color and decorated to my taste. He really has no presence in here anymore except that he keeps his clothes in the drawers and in the closet.

Even on nights when the boys and I have been out of town for whatever reason, he still sleeps in the other room. Wierd.

Willing, the WS wil do and say anything to save their butt. The responses to your questions are rehearsed before the BS ever asks. Trust me...I know from experience. I did it all the time - "Ok, if he asks me about such-n-such, my response will be such-n-such." That's why I could respond so quickly and smoothly. The conversation already happened in my head. I was always defensive, though, and LOOKED for reasons to keep my distance - both physically & emotionally. I convinced myself that my H was bad (though in my heart I knew he wasn't) and I could come up with ALL kinds of justifications. I can understand you wanting concrete evidence but, at this point, I would say you have a good start.

I'm sorry you're going through all of this turmoil. You guys deserve better.

Also, I cannot verify the card games. I am not privy to the names of the players (believe me I have asked) nor to where they play. So, I can't drive by because I have NO idea where to look.

I do believe that there is some legitimate card playing at least sometimes. He makes references to conversations about things like fantasy football and other sports-related things that I think come from those nights 'with the guys.'

Also, the OW from 4 years ago is another teacher at the school where he works. They are both teachers and both still work there. However, their classrooms have been changed and they don't have the opportunities to see each other that they used to. I have at least taken some comfort in that over time.

His behavior is just not the same as it was during the A 4 years ago. Looking back, it was SOOOO obvious then, and I still had no idea.

Could he really still be having an A when I can account for alomst all his time except these Friday night poker games? I am going out of my mind thinking about this.

He probably feels guilt if he's in YOUR room. It's easier to avoid all those feelings if the WS can seperate him/herself.

So, Flukette, IYO..... is this A still ongoing?

If it is, how could I be so stupid to not know it FOR FOUR YEARS!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Can you get hold of his cellphone and check the call history? Also is it possible he has more than one sim card for his cellphone? One that you don't know about?

Everything about his behaviour sounds suspicious to me. The separate bedrooms, the pills, the cellphone, the poker games. I think you are definitely entitled to do some snooping but do your best to act normal until you get evidence. He is a big boy and he knows how to read. I very much doubt he picked up the wrong pills by accident. Good luck. TT

I don't thhink that he has a phone I don't know about. I never heard of a sim card until last week, and I doubt that he is saavy enough to have another and change them out. I do look at his call history at times and I review the itemized bill every month. There has been nothing suspicious.

I realize that there are many red flags. But, there are legitimate explaintions for all these things, too, aren't there? I am just afraid if jumping to conclusions too quickly and causing further damage to the delicate relationship that we have now. That is why I feel bad about tracking him with a GPS..... Looks like I may have to muster the guts to do it anyway.

Ironically, the way I finally confirmed that he had not ended his A on the first try several years ago was by putting the baby monitor in the room where he slept. I heard every word of the middle of the night phone call that night and all h*ll broke loose here. It took that for him to finally end it. (or, so I believe)

I don't know if it is - I think all the signs are there for it to be. If not, maybe he's playing the field or keeping his options open? I have a BAD feeling it is, though. I'd rather not tell you that, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You aren't stupid. You want to believe him and I can understand that. You will want to get some solid evidence and I certainly cannot say that it is still going on for certain. I'm just saying that the whole thing seems fishy to me.

Flukette - don't feel bad telling me anything! I have been told that I am 'hard headed' and sometimes it takes so much for me to embrace something other than my own thoughts.

I am upset - but I can thankfully say that this pain and frustration is SO different than when I found about about the A four years ago. I was so, so scared then. I wanted my marriage at any cost. I was afraid to be on my own financially and emotionally.

I don't feel that way now. If he is having an A, my fight is over. I am stronger as a person and I know I can make it on my own and that I can be happy and that I deserve better.

All that said, I am still afraid to trust my judgement. I will have to find a way to get proof one way or the other before I can rest easily again.

I want to know NOW!! I do not want to waste more time thinking about this. I want to either work on my marriage or move on. Sad thing is that even if there is not an A, I don't think WH wants to work on our marriage. I think he is only here for the kids. Maybe I am too, but I don't think so.

Where is the manual that tells us what to do in these situations? I want black & white answers - I am so tired of hanging out here in the 'grey' world. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Absolutely not! It is not against Harley's principles at all. He very much advocates snooping when you think something is going on. Rather, you have a responsibility to find out the truth. His explanation doesn't ring true to me, but that doesn't mean its not. That is what you have to find out. But snooping will rule it in or out.

I will tell you that an affair would explain quite a few things that just don't add up to me. I have had the hardest time putting my finger on your situation because I have had this sense that something HUGE is missing. It doesn't add up. And while I would hate for it to be the case, this might be why.

WW, can you hire a PI to tail him for one night?

I need to check into finding someone to tail him for one night. I feel stupid asking this, but how do you go about finding a PI?

Another thing that is wrong in our relationship that I haven't mentioned is that WH will not say "I love you." I just went into the other bedroom to tuck in YS and WH is in there watching TV in bed, too. He always goes to sleep early. As usual, I kissed him on the forehead and said "I Love You, Goodnight." He was just irritated and snapped at me. This life s*cks some days.

It makes me so very sad that this is the example that my children have of a marriage. It just makes me more sad to think of them having two homes if we divorce.

If I wanted to find a reliable PI, I would call the police station and the desk sargeant for a referral. Many PI's are retired cops.

Can anyone give ma link to show me what I am looking for as far as a GPS? I went to the Best Buy website and it looks to me like all those products are things that you use to get directions to somewhere. I don't know what I am looking for that would let me put it in his car to find out where he has been.

I think I am going to either do this or get a PI to follow him on Friday night. Surely it cannot be too expensive to get someone to follow him and find out where he goes. I am sure once he gets there, he stays, so it is really probably only a matter of an hour or two worth of work. Will a PI even bother with something like that.

I don't have alot of $$ to spend on this (I need to keep it under $200.00 if at all possible - the lower the better). But, the peace of mind will be priceless so I am definately going to do it (as long as I can get the nerve).

I waver - a GPS may be cheaper (?) and will get no one else involved. However, I run the risk of him finding it in his car. A PI will probably get faster results but will be less risky for me, I think. Any ideas what a PI for a few hours one night might cost?

OK - this strikes me as wierd, too. I just went into the kitchen and noticed the TV light still on in the bedroom where he sleeps. I went in there and he is watching TV - wide awake. I asked if he was just not tired yet and he said he wasn't. Kind of strange because he went in there to lie down 2.5 hours ago because he was so exhausted.

He usually goes to bed early so it is strange to me that he is up this late - esp after a late 'poker game' last night. Is he awake because he is stressed that he has been 'caught' today?

I am so tired of being hyper-sensitive to these things. (Seriously, should I even be reading anything into the fact that he has not gone to sleep yet? It seems that I am ridiculous - why do I keep doing this? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />) I was NOT this way before the A. It makes me angry that his actions changed that part of me. It is not fun to over-analyze every little thing that happens. This is a sad, sad consequence of his A.

Hello willingtowait2,
Go through the phone book and "interview" PI's before deciding on which on you will use. I can tell you first hand that I hired one for $100.00 and it got me nowhere. Zilch.Then I waited too long with the credit card company to fight it and I was out my $100.00.

I then called the whole list of them in th phone book and explained what info I was looking for and what price they would charge for that. I got prices all over the board. The one I ended up going with was also an attorney, was reasonable and was able to get every question answered within just a few hours.
A friend of mine hired a PI a few years ago to follow her husband for a week and take tons of pictures (He lived in the city during the week and came home on weekends.) It cost her almost 3,000.00. That is a lot of $$$ and I doubt if most of us average joes could afford that!! But it got her what she needed. She discovered he had his own private mail box in the city, had an OW who he wined and dined. Also my friend was pregnant at the time. Her H was flabbergasted when she walked into the restaurant where he was dining with OW and presented them with all the photos of them together and the mail that she wasn't supposed to see. They are still married by the way, and it is 4 years later and it's going very well.

I do also have to agree with the other posters about confronting him. I had a very bad problem with that -- as soon as I found out something, I would confront him with it because I was so upset and couldn't keep it together!!!
My WH went much deeper and learned to lie better and to never use his cell phone around me -- he would just call her from pay phones. Now he has a different job and has his own personal line and personal email. That scares the crap out of me. Also, he never uses the computer at home anymore. I still have so many red flags -- for all I know there is a new OW. The old OW didn't want anything more to do with him and last I heard she got married this past fall.

With that all said, our relationship has been great for the most part. He's given me flowers a couple times, says I love you now and never could before. He calls me or emails me a few times per day. For awhile he showed me his cell bills. He explains himself, his whereabouts and will even call me from the phone of where he says he's at if I ask. Our relationship is probably better now that it has ever been before, but once that trust is broken it's so hard to regain the trust!!

Also there was one sentence you said that bothered me:


Well, no it wouldn't be the same as I'm sure he remembers very clearly what NOT to do to make it obvious to you. He knows how NOT to act and probably practiced answers to your probable questions over a 100 times in his head just to hide it. I feel strongly about that.
In my situation, I had 3 D-days. (Same OW) Each one was very different because my WH "learns" from my reactions. The answers (lies) he gives are answered in a way that will get the "best" reaction from me.
Seems like I sound so bitter and I don't mean to. Just to be fair to you in the info that I give, the lying from my WH was just as devastating as the A because I felt that all these years, I really never knew this person at all.
Honesty is something that is just so important to me. I have never been a good liar and I've never had much time for people who lie to me. Goes way back to high school I guess.
Anyway, enough of my saga, just wanted another avenue for you to consider. I will watch your thread. Take care!