Go read my other posts. I'm not going to argue with you. OF COURSE MY H WAS A VICTIM OF MY A. I am relaying the facts IN MY CASE, nothing more, and you are taking them and extrapolating.


I am asserting nothing of the kind. A little FYI. The BS did not have any facts about my A. She had innuendos. I told my H the truth, which she did not have - not even close. The truth was far worse and more incriminating than anything she had. And you are taking my words and twisting them.


He doesn't feel the need to "protect himself". Sorry to burst your bubble, but he loves me. And guess what? As a human being, I am much, much more than my A. It does not define who and what I am. And as I said above, the BS had rumors only. The truth I told my H was much, much worse.


Disagree.


My motives were selfish, and I have freely admitted that. But I will never be convinced that the BS was correct here. Never. Interestingly enough, neither are many of the people that she knows, who now shun her, or the therapists that we have visited.

But you are welcome to your strident opinions. Have a nice day.

Absolutely. But some adults are different than other adults, and posting styles vary widely.


I think that *some* people are here for that reason. Others are here for different reasons. Different posters have different approaches. For some posters, it's like they are behind the wheel of an SUV, tailgaiting compact cars. The anonymity inherent in the cyber-world can be a threat to civility. I do find that disappointing.


Agree. The subject matter of this forum and the topics it covers are quite touchy, and are bound to hit on a few controversial areas and to touch a nerve or six.


I'd be interested in knowing what you have learned. I'm always in the process of learning myself.

I would like to take this opportunity, if I may, to sincerely apologise to anyone I may have offended yersterday while replying to this thread.
L love beeing Irish, but sometimes it's a curse <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />!
I have reflected on all that was said to me yesterday and have taken your views to heart, whether I agree or disagree.
I have put my beligerent self away today and have asked God's help to make that a permanent thing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!
If there are unanswered Q that anyone would like me to reply to, I would be happy to do so(although I don't know why you would want to talk to me again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).
Blessings to all of you,
Jerry

Penalty, obviously she did have enough "facts" to know about your affair with her H and seek out your other victim to imform him. She had no way of knowing if he knew or not. So what if she didn't have "all" the facts [how could she??] she knew enough.

Let's remember who the real victims are here, your H and the OM's wife. It is not her motives that are suspect, but yours. You screwed her H, for God's sake. I can't imagine any "motive" worse than that. Other folks aren't obligated to keep your sleazy little secrets for you. You are the one who did something wrong here, not her.

Hopefully you did the decent thing and apologized to her and gave her the true facts since, as you say, she did not have all the facts. She had a right to know every detail since the affair was information about HER life that was wrongfully withheld from her. You owe her the truth and an apology.



So what if he loves you? That doesn't mean you are trustworthy. If you had an affair, all the love in the world will not turn you into a trustworthy person. Lying and adultery are profoundly untrustworthy actions that define your level of trustworthiness. Apparently the other BS was right about the affair and that is what counted. As far as veracity, I would trust her word over that of the adulterer.

You might have had more facts about the affair, you were there screwing her H and she wasn't, after all, but that sure doesn't mean your veracity exceeds her. It don't.


Why thank you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Love ya, Jerry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wow Mel,

You're at it again. You totally took PK's first post out of context and had your way with it.

How totally disrespectful to slaughter her the way you did. Unbefreakinlievable!!

This is really the melodylane "SEE IT MY WAY OR SHUT UP" thread.

No opposing opinions allowed. ML decides what you should do and nothing else matters. (She is on another thread this morn doing the pitbull/exposure technique also).

Geesh. PK...don't waste your time "defending" yourself. You don't need to.

Surviver, is it not ok for ME to have an "opposing opinion?" Or do you just reserve that right for yourself? Can you never discuss the issues and stay away from personal attacks? Methinks you are just angry because you CAN'T defend your position.

Since you are not able to defend your opinions, you wrongly assume it is an "attack" when someone challenges your argument. People usually resort to personal attacks, as you have, when they KNOW THE FACTS won't help them. And that is what has happened with you.

LM,

I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. If you are a Christian then you should have integrity. The definition of integrity is doing the right thing even if no-one is watching. BSs did not invite the As in their life upon themselves, the WSs did and no-one but the WSs got a vote in the situation. The point here, IMHO is if you know and know for a fact then you must expose or you are indeed an accessory to the A. Same as if you knew someone was going to rob a bank or commit assault or murder, if you know date, time, location, everything, and you withhold this info from the authorities and later they find out what you knew and when you knew it, well you are chargeable and most likely will be found guilty as an accessory to the crime committed. Pretty straight forward. Same goes for the bible, if you believe and are trying to live a christlike life, you must do the right thing PERIOD! If you don't or you pick an choose where you do and don't then you might be what some folks call a NON-Believer or Hypocryte. Just my .02

No, she had *one* fact. Just one. I could have denied it but chose not to. I chose to reveal an entire affair. I'm comfortable with that. It felt good not to lie, but it had been years since I had. Guess I was out of practice.


Well, we have lots of victims here then. Because this sainted BS also had her own A's. And she continues to.


Screwing her H is a "motive"? I thought it was an action.


And where, oh where do I say that people are obliged to keep my "sleazy littls" secrets? She never had my secrets; no one did. And where did I say that I did not do something wrong? And why all the perjorative adjectives? Kindly remember that I am a FWW. Save your vitriol for something else.


I called her 4 times. She didn't take my call. That's her prerogative. But she wasn't interested in any apology, or in knowing the truth. Her M was over. She was interested in hurting me and my H and my children. That's it. End of story.


See above.


Oh, I don't think it's "so what". I think it's rather important, actually. I have a lot to offer. I am more than the sum of my mistakes, as are we all.


Then you would be a fool. Because she is a multiple WS who hid her affairs from her H and bragged of them to her friends, which is where I heard the rumors about her. But I'm not in the habit of repeating rumors and presenting them as fact, which is why I never said anything to her H, although I could have. And after she was separated from her H, she dated a MM. But you're not interested in knowing the situation, you're interested in grinding your axe. Go ahead. She's had more A's than I. And unlike you, I do not believe that one period in a person's life defines them forever. People change. No one had to tell me to end my A, I did it because I wanted to.

Also if you're "happily recovered", how on earth do you reconcile that with never trusting your H? Because he is an adulterer, "profoundly untrustworthy", correct? How could you be married to someone you trust not at all? And recovered or not, how could you be happy living with someone you do not trust?

Just wondering. It doesn't seem logical.

Jerry, I was answering the Q, and I don't believe it was directed to your sit.

If the couple is not M, then I don't feel there is responsibility to tell.

Also, I wasn't trying to disrespect you, I was just taking the opportunity to rip on ML. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I exposed myself, I knew I didn't have the strength to end the A all on my own, and the OM wasn't allowing it on his end, so it was also necessary to expose to his W.

Most often the WS, knows it is wrong, wants it to stop, but they lack the self control, exposure holds them accountable.

EXPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

PK have you heard of redemption???

You know, pk, all that is nice, but it still doesn't address the original issue, which is your assertion that the BS was somehow the "bad guy" in all this for contacting your H and exposing the affair. She WASN'T. You were the BAD GUY for having an affair and lying to your H all these years.

All the affairs on the world, on her part, won't erase that true fact. Nor will it make her motives suspect. Your motives are SUSPECT. You are the one who had something to hide, not HER.

Maybe she is a fellow liar and a cheater, but her alleged lack of trustworthiness is no worse than yours. And is irrelevent to the issue. Remember, you did the same thing, after all and are not in a position to question her veracity.


In other words, you were still lying to your H after all these years. Every day that you did not tell your H about your affair was a LIE. A lie about his life. Do you realize that?


The victims in this SITUATION are your H, your OM's W and the children involved.


But not the TRUE story. Regardless of her "motive" you were the one who hurt your H and your children. You did that with your affair and 4 years of LIES.

And I give you alot of credit for trying to call her and apologize, however, your posts sure don't indicate any remorse for what you did TO HER. Instead, you try and portray YOURSELF as her victim, when nothing could be further from the truth. You show seething animosity towards her. That is not remorse.

Your H was victimized BY YOU, not her. She just exposed your lies.


Nowhere did I say an adulterer could never be trusted again. You just made that up. Trust has to be EARNED. And my H has spent the past few years earning trust. But when he was lying to me and having an affair, he was absolutely untrustworthy.

Yes, she did. I hope that there may be people reading who find it...illuminating. That was my intent. Things are not always black and white. It is much easier to believe that they are.


I enjoy answering incivility with civility. I enjoy using my education. Plus, I have the hide of a rhinoceros. It's a useful thing for a FWW on this forum and the parent of two teenagers.


Well, I have to say that a person coming on to this forum for *advice* is getting exactly what they paid for in many cases. One must ALWAYS consider the source.


Thanks for the support. I think that in many cases, attitudes like ML's drive FWSs from this forum. I think that's a shame, as there is much to learn on here from BS and FWS alike.

pk, I don't think folks who are truly here to get help are so easily run off when someone presents an opposing view. You presented an opposing view yourself and I imagine that most folks are just fine with it. If civil disagreements will run a person off, then they don't belong on the internet in the first place.

OT:

PK, I love this...



I am a FWW and the mother of one teenager, now..My OS is now 23 but he acts like a teenager!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS..my hide is not as big as it used to be (workout almost daily)... but it is HARD....

LOL......

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And where did I say that I was *not* wrong to have the A and keep it from my H? Where? You are making an incorrect assumption and berating me for it. And if I want to believe that she was vengeful for doing what she did, I have every right to do so. As I said, I am not the only person with that view.


Again, you are taking what I said and putting your own incorrect spin on it, and calling it a "true fact". Nowhere did I say that it was fine that I had an A and kept it from my H. Nowhere. Yet you keep presenting it as truth. Why?


You brought up the topic of trustworthiness. It was not on my agenda. Please don't call her a fellow. She is dating a MM. And again, with the "liar" and "cheater". Those are perjorative terms that exist in the present. I am not a liar and cheater.


I wasn't questioning it. You stated that you would believe her over an adulterer. I simply pointed out that we were both OW and that she continues to be. It was not irrelevant at all.


Yes, I most certainly do. That is one of the things that we struggle with in recovery, and one of the reason that I have a lot of amends to make. But again, you are making an incorrect assumption about what I believe.


I belive that the OM's wife is more the victim of the woman her H left her for than I. Feel free to disagree.



Sigh. You are preaching to the choir. And she was not interested in the true story. If she was, she would have taken my call. I left my cell and home phone #'s. And I don't think that her motives should be given a pass in this situation.


Again, where am I making myself out to be a victim of the OM's wife? Where did I say that? Seething animosity? No.
Not at all. Had she the courage to confront me, I would have apologized. But she hasn't any courage *or* integrity, and I will not pretend that she does simply because she was the BS.


I exposed my lies. And again, for the umpteenth time, where do I say that my H was not victimized for my actions? Where?


Since you're going to read a bunch of things into my posts that aren't there, I read a "seething animosity" towards all WP/FWP in your post. Your posts to me have been inflammatory in the extreme. You have been rude and condescending, and you appear to derive enjoyment from it. You don't ask questions, you make assumptions and then go on the attack.

I have earned trust from my H, btw. He was able to confirm, through contact w/OM that I was telling him the truth. I have been a complete open book to him for years, in terms of my actions. If I chose not to reveal my A until the seeds of doubt were planted in his mind, that is something that I will have to deal with. I had young children, and I was fearful of losing the person I loved most in the world. I didn't think it would be discovered, since I went complete NC and changed many aspects of my life.

I was wrong. But for you to heap condemnation on me without knowing the facts serves no purpose, IMO. And do not dare to tell me that I have no remorse. I have nothing but, and that is in the opinion of the person who matters most, my H.

Mimi, thanks for the laugh. You have inspired me to get upstairs and work on my reformer (Pilates). Internet forums (like recovery) are not for the faint of heart, that's for sure!

pk, you asserted that exposure of your affair to your H was not a "postive or necessary thing"



and we are supposed to believe the OMW is the bad guy in all this for exposing to your H. That is what I am responding to. We are supposed to question her motives instead of yours, oddly.

How else would he have found out since you didn't inform him? It is irrelevant if the OMW had only "*one*" fact, she apparently had enough to get the message across, didn't she? How could she possibly have more info since affairs are conducted under the veil of deceit?

This was pertinent information about his life that was being wrongfully and CRUELLY withheld from him. Every day that you did not tell him was another LIE. That is manipulation.

So, no matter what the BS's motives were, she did a good deed to your H by exposing the affair. Adultery is bad enough, but there is never a good excuse for lying about it and keeping the victim in darkness. It is ludicrous to portray the OMW as the bad guy here just because she told your H.

Which goes back to the underlying principle being discussed on this thread, that is it a MORAL OBLIGATION to warn a BS if there is an affair. Even if one's "motives" are not pure, the act is still an act of decency.

Here is what Dr Harley says about it:

From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

huh? You lie and carry on an illicit affair with her H and you have the audacity to question HER integrity? Wow, that is SOME serious chutzpah! She doesn't need to "confront you." She doesn't owe you that. You, on the other hand, owe her an apology and explanation.

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