traicionado,

Did you pick up on whom DD3 is? She needs to share PSP or whatever you call it....

Don't you just love a router? My favorite woodworking tool is the lathe. Have you ever read "The Lathe of Heaven" by Ursula LeGuin? Great book! IF you like science fiction. Yes, as opposed to science fantasy.

Carl Sagan didn't factor in the exchange rate. I think WWIII will find NZ a quite attractive place to go. Very economic and, as we all know, war is expensive.

We are nuclear free, we are clean and green, we have a population of 4 million, we have fresh, beautifully cooked food, we produce world class wines. You can be skiing one minute and fishing or rock climbing or kayaking or yachting the next.

You can swim in unpolluted, uncrowded beaches that are available to everyone, you can hike in areas where you feel like you are the only person there.......

Shall I go on.

Sell the place? It's priceless.

How does she manage to write with no accent?

LOL - it's there B. Just ask the people who've actually talked with me on the phone.

Well, it sounds like the last thing you need then are a bunch of whiney American Tourists hanging about. Just ship us your wine and let us whine and dine at home.

What was that other sport you mentioned? The one you guys invented - where you go rolling the ball down the hill. I also saw on The Amazing Race where you had invented yet another one. Something to do with riding a boogy board down a water fall. Sounds like WAY too much free time to me. Keep this up and, before you know it, you'll be outfitting golf carts with DVD players.

And do the toilets REALLY flush backwards?

Oh, zorbing. I don't think we invented that. Riding a boogy board down a waterfall - yeah, right. Like anyone sane would do that.

Seriously, it's a very beautiful place with a fabulous climate and tourism is probably our major industry.

We get HUNDREDS, no THOUSANDS of American tourists here. We love you all no matter how whiny you are. The Americans don't whine - they love it.

Sledging
Sledging in NZ
Detour:

Teams must drive 13 miles to Okere Falls and perform a New Zealand adventure sport called sledging. With the help of two river guides, they must ride down a one-mile whitewater river course with only a small board, called a sledge, for protection. Sledging down the river would be scary, but Teams that braved the rapids could finish quickly. Colin & Christie, Chip & Kim and Linda & Karen all summoned the courage to perform this option.

Okay so Sir Isaac Newton actually "invented" it when he invented gravity because zorbing is closely related to his famous "inclined plane" experiments.

I do however think you guys modified gravity enough that you won't have to pay for patent infringement.

LOL - I don't know maybe they do it. I'm a city girl - what would I know.

I have been having a rough few days. Does anyone know if having occasional thoughts about wanting divorce is just a "normal" feeling? For the past few days, I have had these feelings that maybe I would be happier with WW out of my life.

I just don't feel like she really wants this marriage and I am wondering why I am putting out so much effort to save it. I have been feeling the betrayal very intensely the past few days. I don't know why.

Isn't trying to get a WW back into a marriage that she doesn't want being controlling? Everyone tells me I shouldn't try to control WW. I feel like that is exactly what I am doing by trying to keep her in the marriage.

She shows no remorse and I am sorry but that is just a deal-breaker for me. What she did hurt me very much. I guess I am being selfish in expecting remorse but then again she was quite selfish in having an affair.

Anyway, I guess my question is "are these feelings just a passing phase that will go away?". We have vacation coming up at the end of July so I don't see anything happening before then but I can't really envision my life after the vacation at all.

Did you read Mr c's post? Here it is. I think you are pretty normal.

I’m at the point where I really don’t want to put any more effort into luring back my F(?)WW. She has put so little effort into recovering. She still can’t even begin to tell me what was missing. Says she never knew she was unhappy until she met OM. She claims to be remorseful but rarely seems it. She refuses to leave her job where she sees OM everyday, supposedly as friends only now. The only reason I haven’t filed for divorce is the kids, there are two, 3 and 7 months (yes, she had the affair while pregnant, and yes, I have verified the baby is mine).

I started seeing an IC right after D-day, and I remember being so sad and telling the IC that I didn’t want the life of a divorced Dad. It seemed so awful to me. Nine months later, that life looks pretty damned attractive to me. Is divorced life really that bad? I would still have plenty of time with my DDs, just sans spouse. I would have my own place and start to move past this nightmare.

So I ask you, why bother chasing someone who clearly is no longer interested in you? It’s demeaning, depressing, and at this point, seems fruitless.

Oddly enough I did just read that. I got depressed by the replies. When is enough enough? Do I have to go for two years before I have the right to quit? I don't think I could survive cc46's timeline. I don't even think she can.

Is this just a passing phase? Will I get out of this slump? That is my question. Are these feelings normal and yet transient?

Your feelings are normal and transient.

The good thing about this place is that you won't go on hurting forever. Either you will recover your marriage, or you will be quite happy to move on with no regrets.

Well, this is not my thread, but reading that post made me depressed also. I think I am going to bed. Goodnight everyone.

These feel like dangerous times. I don't know why they feel that way or what that danger is. I just don't have any strong emotional connection to keep me tied to WW. I love her but have also been really hurt by her and I don't feel like she is logging on yet to our marriage. Maybe she is. This is just the way I feel. And it makes me sad. And I don't have any spare AD's here in the office to pump up the dosage. I think I will start mainlining the AD's. Maybe that will help.

Oops. I think I just figured it out. It was that darn letter I wrote for tear's husband. That's what has done this. I forced myself to relive this entire event. That is what is wrong.


OT: I do have another question. What is an occasional table the rest of the time?

T, It seems I sleep while you are awake and vice-versa.

You challenged me about my timeline! That would make me even MORE determined normally, not because I like to WIN but because the hard things are the ones that are usually the right ones. So I would be even more convinced it was the right thing to do (because remember I cannot know since I am not an expert AND Thank God I have no experience).

BUT at this point I have just realized that I may have found the REAL solution, the instructions about how to live my life and be happy. I will have it confirmed by the priest this tuesday when I talk to him.

But it has taken a long time to get to this point. I have often thought of divorce, I carried a lawyer's telephone number for a long time in my wallet, I even took it out a couple of times. I have imagined myself divorced...

That is just one of the solutions that we see for the pain we feel. The point is that DIVORCE will not cure the pain. It's like eating oreos to cure your toothache.

You are focusing on the wrong issues. Your pain will go away when YOU recover, whatever Gemela does or does not do and whatever happens to your marriage. I repeat, because I have told you before, I believe, in my humble opinion, that you are on the wrong track. Yes, I believe you try to control G, I also believe that you are not in recovery and that she has stayed because she cannot leave, I also believe that you are terrified of baring your soul to her and even to yourself. You have not looked inside yourself enough. You keep projecting the problems out: either it's G, or DDs, or the job, etc But you don't look inside yourself.

Most of your posts are about the "material" things that you have given your family. But when have you really sat G down with no distractions and no shoes or DDs or excuses and told her how you feel about yourself, about her, about your marriage? When do you have INTIMATE conversations with her?

You don't, maybe because you are afraid of yourself.

Divorce in your case would be like oreos for a toothache.

But it is normal to think about it.
I did for a long time, until I realized that it would not take away the pain. Now it's moot. I'm focusing on really treating the pain, hopefully curing it.

BTW, I do think that the letter you wrote to Tear's husband probably is the cause of these thoughts.

And FEELINGS go away. Your commitment shouldn't. Marriage is a commitment, the love feelings are not necesarily there ALL the time. You know this.

FEELINGS can only last a short time, they will change.

And listen to Believer, she knows what she's talking about.

cc46,

Well when you do find the answer from the priest on Tuesday, please share.

I am one of the most introspective people I know. I did not talk to gemela about a lot of that early on in our marriage because of language. Big mistake. I watched King Kong last night and, well, I am sure there was a message in that movie I wanted to relate here but never mind. Gemela and don't have intimate talks right now because she won't allow it. You said yourself that we have no relationship. You are correct.

I am between a rock and a hard place. If I tell gemela how I really feel some times, I feel she will think the M is hopeless and decide to give up. A sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. So I have to be positive and upbeat per plan A which I am not all the time feeling which makes the sadness even worse. This whole thing is convoluted at the moment.

At the moment, I feel like I have reopened a lot of wounds over the "tear" issue. If I get the opportunity, I have no problem telling gemela that. I still get back to an old topic. How do I really know I want R when I have no clue what R really is? And, excuse me but I am also wondering what will happen two years from now when WW runs into OM again. Will we go back to square one? I wish I knew the answers to these questions.

The only thing I have is my commitment to marriage. I have nothing else left to me.

And don't go talking bad about Oreos because that makes ME even more determined.