Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
Cali~ Since my answers/comments are based on my situation, I didn't want to TJ Blue's thread.

Quote
Ad how could that possibly be best for oc to exclude om, her father from the picture.


First of all Cali, you know as well as I do from being on these boards that most OM/MM's exclude themselves, nobody has to do it for them. In all likelihood, this OM is no different, and is only too happy to walk away. If the OM really wants C, he will go for it. I am only suggesting to Blue that if he loves this child as his own, and is willing to take on all fatherly responsibilities that he shouldn't go out of his way to disprove his legally assumed paternity.


Quote
I get that they aren't doing anything illegal. But is that how that child will see it when the truth comes out?


I don't know how the child will see it when/if he/she finds out. It may very well all blow up in Blue and his W's face, just as it may happen for my H and me. Their OC may deal with much emotional turmoil at the point of discovery, just as ours may.

But, imo there is no perfect decision and no perfect outcomes in these kind of situations. We as parents have to make the best choices we can for our children. Blue seems to be coming from the same thought process as my H/me, in that we believe the good that will come out of raising our child in a secure, peaceful, 2 parent, intact family without shuffling him back and forth from 2 households, (and all that goes along with that), will far outweigh the damage that may be caused when/if our child finds out he has a bio father out there.

We may be completely ALL WET in this decision, but it's the chance we're willing to take, because again, there is NO perfect choice in this, and we can only work with what we have, but we believe this is the best choice for OC, our COM, my H, and our M. We feel our child may be hurt in either scenario, so we chose the scenario where we truly believe there will be the least amount of hurt for him. And quite frankly, our decision to raise as our own was the obvious choice anyway because OM gladly walked away on his own accord.

Quote
I'm not saying the whole process isn't hard on the M or COM but is preventing or trying to block C within all a persons legal means a good thing for a child.


I'm not sure what all is figuring into Blue's decision, but in our case-- We believe no ONE person's rights outweigh another person's rights, ie my COM and H. It may seem to you that my OC is the only one who has anything to lose or gain in this situation, and as such all decsions should be based upon him alone. But, there are other people and their lives to be considered as well. Our COM and my H, and yes even our M needed to be considered too, as they all had something to lose or gain as well. We made the best decision, while trying to consider the rights and what was best for ALL the parties involved, not just the OC. But again, OM was no where around, so it's pretty much a moot point anyway.



Quote
I guess I could see better if this person was or did something to hurt oc but thats not what I'm getting so I don't get it. Ad you know I'm a BS just like he is so it's not like I don't understnad the pain involved here.

Because Cali-- it's not about whether the OM is a good parent or not. It's not because I think anyone who has an A is an unfit parent, because obviously the mother had one too, just as I did and it would be hypocritical to say an OM is automatically a bad parent, but not the WW. But, back to my first point-- many of them don't step up and try to claim their paternity anyway. So why roll out the welcome mat for them, if it's within the law not to so so, and when you also believe it's truly in the child's best interest not to? And secondly, this is not about revenge for the pain caused to the BH, or at least it shouldn't be.

Quote
But I guess my bottom line thought is how can anyone say depriving or trying to aid in depriving a child from their bio parents wether we personally like them or not a good thing?

Cali-- Once again, more times than not, it is the bio father HIMSELF who is doing any "depriving", not the BH. Beyond that though, I guess after seeing my H with our child, I don't put near as much emphasis on bilogy as you do, so I don't see much deprivation going on. What I see is the fact my H quite possibly has "saved" my child's life, in giving him a fulltime, loving father and a drama free life.

One other note Cali, because I'm a little confused myself. Elsewhere, you and I discussed a little bit about the lawsuit of the man from MI, and his contention a man should be able to "opt out on fatherhood" if he simply doesn't want a child. Why do you find it OK for the bio-father to opt out on his child, thus depriving his own child the right to know or have any support from him, YET you have a problem with a BH supposedly "trying to block C" between the bio father,(who hasn't shown any signs of wanting C anyway), and child??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
How will the child feel? I think it will feel darn lucky and very loved knowing that "it's dad" loved it with true unconditional love. Blood didnt make the love, the heart did.


When you learn to forgive someone who has really hurt you and forget the wound that they have caused, then you truly love that person.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
From your lips to God's ears, TS. I hope that's how our child and Blue's child will see it, but I'm not going to be naive. I'm preparing for the worst, hoping for the best-- hoping the proof will be in the pudding, (which will be the kind of life he's had, filled w/ love, security and nurturing). At the very least we can say we didn't PUSH om away, he did that all on his own.

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
Trying to do decide what is the right thing to do, is hard, it stills tears me apart some days on if I made the right ones, I just got to hope that I have, and even if it was wrong one in the end at least you know that you really was trying.

Yes there is a chance it might not come out the way that you wanted, but raising your child with love and morals your child will understand, maybe a few reblious words in the beginning, that will probably come from shock, think we all understand that part. But after that the child will think and understand and realize how lucky it is. And one day that child will grow up, fall in love, start a marriage and then in their hearts will know.

I know..... I was raised by another man when my bio-dad left my mother when she was pregnant with me and she married my "dad" when i was a tiny baby. I was in my 20'S when I accidentally found out. I decided to meet my bio dad, and came to my own conclusion.... I am a better person because of "my dad" and I count my lucky stars that he stepped up and loved me with his whole heart, and I look up, respect, and love him more for his unconditional love.


When you learn to forgive someone who has really hurt you and forget the wound that they have caused, then you truly love that person.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
I do have to add this too.... what "my dad" taught me was what true love is!


When you learn to forgive someone who has really hurt you and forget the wound that they have caused, then you truly love that person.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
Thank you thunderstorm, that is really encouraging to hear. I know personally of a few other people with the same type of background as you, including a close relative, and they feel the same as you do.

It's so strange, but in a way I find my H's love and adoration for this little one to seem more meaningful and deep than the love he has for our bilogical children. I don't mean he loves him more, certainly not. I don't know... I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it has something to do with the love not being something he's "obligated" to feel for the child because of dna linkage? Whatever it is, it just seems deeper to me, or special or something, (can't even think of the right word to describe it). I think my H is even taken aback a bit at his love for this child. Because I'm sure if someone would've foretold our situation 10 years ago, he would've said he could never love another man's baby, (esp one produced from an A) as his own. I mean really, who would EVER think such a possibility?

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10
B
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10
Sorry I don't know how to "quote" but I will add my position

1)"most OM/MM's exclude themselves, nobody has to do it for them. In all likelihood, this OM is no different, and is only too happy to walk away."

Reply: Actually this OM is in love with my wife and also considers himself a family oriented man. One of the things that attracted my wife to him was a pre-fabbed family (My 4 girls) (who are wonderful)) that he tried to steal. He impregnated her purposefully (I believe) to ad glue to the affair, and to insure that I would reject her. It didn't work. In talking to my wife about it, during the issue of CS, she said that if he were to pay CS that he would want involvement with the OC.

" But is that how that child will see it when the truth comes out?"

We looked at the situation and liken it to a parent's use of say an illegal drug during the parent's youth, and thier teenager is now considering using... Would you say: "I did it, so you make up your own mind"? or would you let your children know that it is wrong. If they brought up your use, then indicate that it is not hypocritical to admit that the parent made a mistake and that the child should learn from it. There is no pending reason to disturb the existing children's ideas of the sanctity and stability of thier household now. Further as the OC is an adult, and perhaps facing a marrige crisis of his/her own, perhaps that would be a good time to say that he/she should reconsider ir he/she should put away his/her spouse, "because after all your Father didn't leave your Mother when she became pregnant with you"...


"We believe no ONE person's rights outweigh another person's rights"

Boy oh boy, I will have to disagree on this one. If a serial killer were to write a book about his experiences, and sell millions, would he be entitled to the profits? Our court system in a rare decision on the right side of right and wrong, said that the criminal has no right to profit from his crime. Likewise should an interloper interfering with the contract of marrige, violating a legal and sanctified union be afforded rights arrising from his misdeads? I hold that he SHOULD NOT!!! Even though a WS was a willing participant, the BS was not. Also, the children of the marrige have a RIGHT to a 2 parent, married household if in fact that was the state in which they entered this world. The COM, could in fact have an actionable cause (Lawsuit) against both the WS and the interloper, should the interloper decide continue to stick his nose (or other metaphorical anatomy)where it not welcome. His so-called "right" could only have come from a "wrong", a "trespass", a tort, a failure to meet his responsibility (To not interfere in a marrige and not commit adultery) (as well as to control his tadpole deposits in places that arn't his to do so). No he gains no "rights" only responsibilities for his actions. (In my opinion)


One last thing, out of respect for you "dad" If I were in you shoes, I would call him Dad (with out quotes and capitalized) and Father and Daddy, and Abba, and PaPa.. In regards to the polywog doner, just that- "a bio", or a "sperm-doner". Don't discount the love and value that your Dad placed upon you in his daily decision to unconditionally love a child not of his liniage. In many ways it takes a Real Man to do so. He's not a stepdad, he is a hero. For a man to do so is a big deal that most women will never truly understand. We cannot bear children, our meaning in life is fathering and fatherhood. To be denied the fatherhood (bio), when we "could" father(bio) and then fatherhood, it is a denial to our being and biology.

We decided on 4 kids. Now she is pregnant with a child not of my line. In a very real way, I want to have another child after this one (OC), I can't explain it but I think it would hurt less.. if our last child was mine.. the idea of our last one not being so seems to bother me more. Just wierd feelings I guess.. sorry to go on. THe bottom line is, our last pregnancy (COM) almost killed the wife, this one is a HUGE!!! risk. no way I can have another.

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
Quote
"We believe no ONE person's rights outweigh another person's rights"


Boy oh boy, I will have to disagree on this one. If a serial killer were to write a book about his experiences, and sell millions, would he be entitled to the profits? Our court system in a rare decision on the right side of right and wrong, said that the criminal has no right to profit from his crime. Likewise should an interloper interfering with the contract of marrige, violating a legal and sanctified union be afforded rights arrising from his misdeads? I hold that he SHOULD NOT!!! Even though a WS was a willing participant, the BS was not. Also, the children of the marrige have a RIGHT to a 2 parent, married household if in fact that was the state in which they entered this world. The COM, could in fact have an actionable cause (Lawsuit) against both the WS and the interloper, should the interloper decide continue to stick his nose (or other metaphorical anatomy)where it not welcome. His so-called "right" could only have come from a "wrong", a "trespass", a tort, a failure to meet his responsibility (To not interfere in a marrige and not commit adultery) (as well as to control his tadpole deposits in places that arn't his to do so). No he gains no "rights" only responsibilities for his actions. (In my opinion)


Bluejayed~

I don't have a lot of time right now, but I wanted to address at least this point.

I should make clear that when I said "We believe no ONE person's rights outweigh another person's rights", I was speaking in the context of who were considered in the decision we made after my A/P, those being my family members ONLY--my H, my COM and my OC. My point was that we believe each member of our family has equal "rights", and that the OC was not the only person who needed to be taken into consideration when making the decsion of how to proceed. I was in no way including the OM or really even myself.

If you'll go back and read what all I wrote after my above statement, I think you'll see we may be closer in agreement than you originally thought. Not that it matters if we agree, but I did want to clarify what I said. And hey, I'm on your side here, or I wouldn't have tried to explain the advice I gave to you-- to Cali. Heck I probably wouldn't have given you any advice in the first place.

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 188
I was just trying to point out to autumday how important my dad is to me so she can somewhat rested in her decsion


When you learn to forgive someone who has really hurt you and forget the wound that they have caused, then you truly love that person.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 164
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 164
Thanks for explaining. It makes more since to me. I wasn't looking really at how this affects others just really oc. I guess it's a little different in my eyes since we dont have any com yet. But since we do have contact w/ oc it does effect me, dh and of course the marriage. I guess being thrown into all this I had begun to feel it was just part of the deal. Everyone gets part of the raw deal. But if I hear you correctly you're saying it doesn't have to be so.

I think some of my comments are so strong on this aspect because my father wasn't ther and ther have been debates whether or not it was on his own accord.

As far as the other thread is concerned about the opt out I see the father making that choice. Not someone making it for him. i would hope that wouldn't be his choice in all honestly but I think if woman have those rights that isn't too far of a stretch to allow that one to the man.

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,383
^^bump for McB^^


Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 39 guests, and 52 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
MikaylaVaux, I.P., Alex82, Dezzeiemm, love spells
71,725 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,545
Posts2,322,787
Members71,726
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5