Well, I am feeling pretty good about everything tonight. She opened up a bit, it was very very minimal, but I feel there is something different about her opening up this time. It is more of a gradual and consistent development over the past few days instead of short, back and forth, more intense changes. Also, our one friend that bought into what she said more than anyone else talked to me today and told me two encourging things: that I seem like I really am doing pretty good; and that she knows what it is like to love someone who is very selfish. She still believes what my W has told her about it being over, but seems to have seen through some of the crap she was putting out there.

Beyond that, I just belive that the A is waning. It is more of a gut feeling--which I have learned to trust more than doubt the hard way--but there are also (a lot of) little signs I can point to, and things I remember about her past (two of her past relationships died because of distance, for one example). I also believe she is uncertain about moving out, even though I'm sure she would say otherwise.

I just feel that things are going in the right direction... All the same I know how wrong I can be, and am preparing for the worst.

Time shall tell!

You have to wrk on you and doing the Plan A. it is impossible for you to change her in any way - but by doing a good A - you can take extraordinary precautions to avoid amking anything worse. You have hardly had tiome to paln A - but we choose our own time frame. Also your history makes things more complicated - so it may take longer. Work the plan A - plan your plan B, thast is when you make it dofficult for her to see the OM - right now you just ask her not to talk to him in "our home".

And read all the stuff on the site over and over until you have the hang of it without having to look it up. or all the books if you have them.

So did you do as I suggested to talk to Dr. Bill?

Linda

Its been a while, so I suppose time for an update.

My W has remained distant--with cracks in her distance here and there. This is by far the longest since the A went into full gear that she has been like this. Based on what her mother said and knowing my W I believe it is because she is using the A as a 'pain-killer,' and she is afraid to get close to me again because I may hurt her again. Unfortunately, I know there are no words I can to do change this...only deeds and time.

It seems she is still planning on moving out, but it get the sense that she is having second thoughts--does little things to improve the house; shows concern over some of our fruit trees which won't even bear fruit until after she has moved out, etc. If she does move out I do feel it will help end the A and bring us closer together since she is planning on living by herself, no roommates, nothing. Her and I are the same in this respect: we need social interaction. Even just someone else rambling around the same house/apartment that we never speak to makes us feel better than living completely alone.

No idea if OM is still planning on moving here, although last I have heard he was still very indecisive, and of course my W has said nothing. To some degree I wish he would just move here already since it would probably force my W to face the reality of who he really is and the nature of the A. Its easy to keep a happy relationship via phone, but much different when you interact often and she would have to see his jealousy and various other negative qualities.

As for me, I have kept up a very good 180 for the last week or so. It seems to have brought her guard down a little, but very slowly...as I expected and take as a positive sign. Regardless of barely even seeing each other and speaking even less, we have continued to communicate. I put some figs from our fig tree in a bowl and put them on the table as a gentle reminder of how much she loves the house; she has begun to put her dishes from breakfast in the sink for me to clean instead of leaving them on the stove, etc.

I've also learned to stop spying since 1) it more often makes me feel worse than better; 2) I don't like hiding anything from her; 3) it rarely tells me anything I don't already know based on her actions and it never alters my plans, my actions, etc.

Regardless, there is one thing that is bothering me at the moment. We had always been very honest with each other before the As--I was even honest with her at that time as well!--there is room for improvement, but not all that much. But now because of her A, I find it difficult to be honest about everything, at least when we do talk. I have to hide many of my feelings about the A, her actions, the OM, etc. but also small things here and there since if I did tell her she would simply use it as ammo against me and complain to the OM about it! The main thing is I am finally recovering from a financial hit--we have different bank accounts, although both of our names are on both--and if I let on at all it upsets her. In the past I would have told her every detail immediately, but now I feel I have to give her as little (real) ammo against me as possible.

Monsters in movies always have some simple fatal weakness which when hit just right--boom--over. Silver bullets, a wooden stake.... why can't this monster, The Affair, have such a quick and simple way to die?

Hope everyone is doing well!

Well, it seems I am on the right track.

The last week, as I mentioned, I have been VERY distant. There have been occasions where I was tempted to break the distance--such as last night she looked MORE beautiful than usual in the outfit she had on--but held back.

So I had stopped checking the cell phone records, but had been tempted for a few days since it may help prove my theory: she uses the OM to bury and run away from me and the pain that I caused and remind her of. So, today, I couldn't take it and I checked the phone records and.... I really prepared myself for the worst, but luckyily SHE HAS BEEN TALKING TO HIM A LOT LESS! And add to that, for at least a month, if not more, HE has called every morning within half an hour of when she usually wakes up for work...the time they first talk after she wakes up progressively increased over the days, and for the last week she--not him as usual--has been making the first call and usually it lasts a minute or two and occurs and hour and a half to two and a half hours after she wakes up!

Please yell at me if you think I am horribly wrong, but: I believe it is best I continue the 180 and include in that a complete and utter ignoring of her A. When I mention or focus on the A, she runs into it to hide...when I don't, she has less and less reason to speak with him at all.

Anyone want to wake me from my happy delusions? Feel free, it would help, but right now I feel pretty good!

I don't recall. Did you expose?

Yes, I exposed, two weeks ago. Most already knew about it, so exposing simply gave my side of the situation which helped dispell what she had told others about me being obsessed, crazy, etc. Then again, most saw that on their own as well.

I just checked one of my WW's e-mail accounts, which I hadn't done in months, and found out that one of the people whom I exposed to immediately told OM, and OM sent it to my WW. The person who I had exposed to preface the copy of my letter with, "Here you go, it's pretty nutty. What the ****** have you gotten yourself involved in benjamin. I'll talk to you tomorrow." I read and reread what I wrote and can't see how it is nutty...am I in a BS fog?!

Perhaps it comes off as "nutty" because this person I don't believe I have ever met, but even then!

But...any thoughts on why my WW never made mention of knowing? Never got upset? Even though it was the SAME DAY she got the e-mail that I told her it was disrespectful for her to continue talking to him.... Is she trying to protect HER sources?

This whole time I had prepared myself for the fallout...yet none came. Good? Bad? Neutral? What?

Whew...what a day! First my promotion, now this!

WW came home not too long ago (which is odd...for the entire week she has been coming home six hours early from work and then leaving again...and she isn't that close to work...hmmm...) and told me she was making soup and if I could grate the carrots for her since she didn't have much time. I was suprised, so I let her know of my promotion. Then it became clear...

She asked me to help so she could confront me. She asked me if I had seen Ryan's (FOW's lover) response to my letter; why I wrote the exposure letters; accussed me of blaming OM for everything; that I've been a pain in the a..; that I 'follow' and 'chase' her around not giving her space. All of it I shot down with ease leaving her no real arguement with which to attack me. I just HOPE this came through the fog. She would become speechless and drop topics as she realized she had nothing to go on. Also, I completely avoided ALL LBs, and even apologized for the few--three minor incidents--I have performed in the last two months or so.

I asked her, for example, if there was any dishonesty in anything I had written or said. All she could come up with was contacting people that 'have nothing to do with this' and blaming the OM...I asked again for any dishonesty, she just stuck with these and defined them as 'dishonest.' The one thing I wished I would have added was, after pointing out I never blamed anyone in anything I wrote, and that if that was the impression I gave it was not my intion, I should have said, "If exposing the facts, the truth, of the matter implicitly blames OM, or even gives that impression, then it is not ME blaming him, it is the truth." Oh well!

Oh, and that suggestion to tell her to move out earlier...worked beautifully! I said June, she said July, I repeated, she said maybe even August, she will decide! So funny.

She also told me that she would talk 'calmly and answer my simply questions' after I am out of 'denial.' I asked her what I was in denial about, expecting fully for her to say for her and I to save our marriage...nope! I'm in denial about my 'motives for my actions.'

Its clear to me that my tactics are working; that her reasons for being mad at me are illogical; and even possibly that she does still love me. Oh! She kept bringing up my love for her in attempt to make me stop attacking the A, "If you really loved me you wouldn't be doing this; you would respect my decisions and actions." I calmly explained that usually, yes, but not when it hurts and is disrespectful to me.

Anyhow, I told her I would send her a copy of the NC letter that I sent so she could judge for herself how valid the 'response' was...she said she didn't care, but brought it up enough that I'm going to.

But I was also thinking about tackling some of the other lies in the response, specifically about the FOW 'not knowing' that my wife and I were together; that FOW was 'under the influence.' Both of which are completely false. I would like to correct these lies so as not to leave them as truth in my WW's mind...but I am hesitant since that requires bringing up some details of the affair and even though she says she doesn't care, I know it will hurt her. Any thoughts? Maybe simply pointing out that they are false and proving it very broadly such as "OW and I talked about my relationship with you, her guilt over it, etc. multiple times; she knew." As opposed to detailing the context of the conversations which would include at least alluding to physical intimacy.

I also began to write some things that I had learned about the nature of affairs, what it says about WSs and OPs, why they happen, as well as all the reasons I wanted NC with FOW.

I hope to send this before she gets home tonight...but of course I can wait. Feedback would be awesome!

I think I will just send the NC letter, and a short but pointed denail of the other lies in the 'response.'

I am probably stressing myself too much about this letter, but I can't help it.

Right now it has a preface to the NC letter saying: here it is, judge if the response makes sense to you. Also, below I wanted to address some other mistruths not related directly to the letter.

Then the letter, then I explain that OW knew that my wife and I were together, not separated or anything else; that A was not a 'one time thing' (as the response indicates) and that OW wasn't 'under the influence' during the A (how could she be unless an alcoholic?). Also that I am simply happy about never having to speak to OW again. Then a repeated apology for the pain, and that I am not only sorry, I have learned what I need to do to make sure it never happens again and that I have done that. I can't make the pain go away, even though I wish I could, but that I will prove myself, no matter how long it takes.

What concerns me is PRIMARILY indicating that the OW knew, and that it wasn't a 'one time drinking accident' as claimed. This concerns me since I don't want to bring up too many painful details, but some do come out.

I want to send it ASAP, but I also want to be certain of what I am sending. Please help, any advice would be appreciated.

post the letter SW. I'll read it.

I have removed all names to protect, um, all of us who are not all that innocent=) Thank you so much MDC!

---------------------
Below is an exact copy of the message I sent to OW, you be the judge of just how much validity FOW’s lover had in his response. Also note that I have not said or written anything to either of them about any of this outside of this e-mail, so the response couldn't have been to prior conversations or the like.

There are many other mistruths in the response that are not in direct response to my message, but there are two specifically that I would like to address, but I will keep it very short. Of course, if you want more information, details, or anything else, just ask. These responses are below my message.

The letter:
I had decided the following a long time ago, and really should have sent this to you then, but I was waiting for my wife to be willing to review this letter and approve it. Alas, if I wait for that it seems clear the letter would take a while longer.

As you know, I am madly in love with my wife, deeply committed to saving our relationship, and deeply regret all of the ways in which I have hurt her, the primary way has been of course by my actions with you. Consequently, I wish to never have contact with you again, in any way shape or form. Of course this is complicated by the fact that we share many friends and acquaintances, and being involved in a few similar pursuits. So instead of completely avoiding you by not going to events, etc. I will still go and simply not speak to or look at you.

It is unfortunate that it has to be this way, but actions have consequences, and I am very willing to face them as well as what is required of me to make good all the mistakes and pain I have caused. I also see no reason for this to be unnecessarily uncomfortable; and hopefully it isnt.

Then again, I doubt this comes as much of a surprise since you have obviously noticed how I now act around you.

Have a good life.
[End]

To quote the response to this:
"if i'm not mistaken, when the 'unfortunate mishap' occurred d. was under the impression (as well as under the influence) that your wife had already split from you … i'm under the impression that you yourself led d. to believe this as truth."

Completely and utterly false. Before anything beyond conversation developed between us, she had asked me about the situation between you and I, and I told her, honestly. We had also discussed it at least two other times during the week you were out of town (she did not ask prior to this). In addition there were enough things that I had said, talked about, etc. that would have made it clear—in addition to telling her the truth directly—what our situation was, and that we were in fact together and that you were not okay with me seeing any other women. She had even expressed to me—before the affair had ended—that she was afraid of ‘f'ing anything up,’ and at a later point that she had ‘f'ed things up.’ Further, if that was a concern of hers why would she have been hanging out with me at Champaign’s the night that you came to speak to her, and then why would she have been so scared of facing you if she didn’t know and if she didn’t continue the affair while knowing?

As for the ‘unfortunate mishap,’ which makes it sound like a one day or one time event which it was not, and as for being ‘under the influence,’ that is also false. There was one night when we each had three beers, and over a few hours. She neither said nor did anything differently after that night in regards to me.

I receive nothing but joy at the thought of never having to even say ‘hi’ to that woman again.

I want to again apologize for my mindless actions, and to stress that I have not only come to regret what I did, but have also faced up to it, explored why it happened, what led me to even want it, why I felt, believed, and acted the way I did and I now know the reasons and just what needs to be done to make sure that such mistakes are never repeated. I have done what I need to do, and it will not be repeated. I cannot simply erase the pain (that only comes with time), even though I wish I could, but I can and will prove myself, no matter how long it takes.

In eternal love.
Your husband.

I'm not one of the experts around here, but I'm pretty sure that this would NOT qualify as "No Contact".

I don't know the mind of a WS, but as the BS, this wouldn't work for me. At all.

As for the other explanations, they're awfully wordy, and a pretty big distraction. Not sure what you hope to accomplish by going into those details. O&H, maybe? I'd skip it unless she asks for detail -- she's indicated that she doesn't wantto hear about it, right? Why give her images that she doesn't want for her to replay over and over to justify her own behavior?

If you feel like you have to address them, I'd say to simplify a lot. "These comments are not true, I will provide more detail if you'd like."

Thank you.

Well, the NC letter has already been sent, and I do understand what you mean because I had said that I would still go and do things that OW is at.

I shall write that simply address to the lies. Should I include the repeated apology for my A or leave that be for the time being?

What is O&H?

Again, I'm not one of the experts around here, so you might want to wait for one of them to weigh in.

But if it were me getting this letter ... I like leaving the apology in, but even the apology seems a little wordy and almost preachy. I would react much better to hearing my H say just the first and last phrases in that paragraph than the whole thing.
"I apologize again for my mindless actions, I wish I could erase the pain. I will prove myself (prove yourself what? trustworthy, loyal, ???), no matter how long it takes."


O&H = Openess and Honesty ... something I'm still working on learning -- how to not keep things too bottled up.

I would like to hear more opinions, but I have decided that I will send it tonight. I told her Thursday that I would send it, and I don't like waiting.

I finally figured out what O&H is just before you posted=) I have actually been quite good at O&H throughout our relationship...of course I could have done better, and now I know just how. Regardless, I even told her about my A the day she came back into town (she was out of town the week that my A went from EA--purely conversation--to a PA), and she even knew that I was spending time with the OW. Even now when she tries to attack me she has not nor cannot accuse me of lying or hiding things from her.

Thank you again. Anyhow, I have removed everything after the letter, and this is what comes directly before it (I will have a cig. after posting and then if no responses to change my decision, it will be sent):

My love,

Below is the exact copy of the message I sent to OW, you be the judge of just how much validity there was in the response. Also know that I have not said or written anything to either of them about any of this outside of this e-mail, so her response couldn't have been to prior conversations or the like.

The rest of the things in the response that cannot be gauged by this letter, are also completely false. I will gladly provide details if you so desire.

I receive nothing but joy at the thought of never having to even say 'hi' to that woman again. So much so that I have decided to completely avoid her, no matter if that means missing local events; my life will be better for it. I would even inform her of this change from what I wrote prior, but I have already told her no contact, and will not break that, so I shall do this on my own.

I apologize again for my mindless actions, I wish I could erase the pain. I will prove myself, and regain your trust, no matter how long it takes.

Yours in love,
Tu amor,
your husband

-----------
I hope this goes as well as intended!

sorry SW - I got side tracked. Did you send it?

not just yet, any thoughts? And don't worry about it, your life can't revolve around my problems or MB=) Thank you for your time and concern.

It's good. Not 100% sure why you're sending it but...seeing as that you are, I would add that you are "fully committed to doing whatever it takes to rebuild that marriage." I know you kind of say that. State it unequivocally.

Tell her that you are ready for a Q&A with her if she would like. You are a new man, open and honest. You have absolutely nothing to hide. The truth is your new best friend. Share with her the relief you feel at living in the truth. And you want to share as much or as little as she wants to hear. And that you're there to listen to her share herself - without disrespectful judgements or expections.

Does she know about MB? Tell her that your are participating in a forum full of BSs and FWSs where you are getting guidance on learning how to be a new man. A new husband. One who fully owns and accepts resposibility for his behavior. Have you changed? How? Tell her.

Maybe more than you want to add. Just some ideas. In all correspondance I have with my WW - try to do this in conversation as well - I own everything that's mine and share my truth with her at every opportunity.

Overall this is good.

Thank you MDC.

She brought up the response to my NC letter that FOW's lover posted and made public. She brought it up to try and attack me, so I told her I would send her the actual letter I sent. She is the only person I care about understanding how off base the response really was (although I think she already knows).

She slightly knows about MB, but right now wouldn't care, unfortunately. She is still very heavily in the fog, although I believe our talk on Thursday (the all out attack she attempted that is!) did get through to her at least a little; she was acting better today. Plus, many of her insults (me being obsessed/crazy) and her insistance that it is dead and over between us were interestingly lacking.

I added most all you suggested, but tried my best to keep it very short. Plus I have also told her before in a prior letter, and plan another one around those lines (at the least I will give her one if/when she moves out).

Here is the entire addition (all para 2, and end of para 4):

The rest of the things in Ryan's response that cannot be gauged by this letter, are also completely false. I will gladly provide details if you so desire. I would be happy to tell you anything--as much or as little--you want to know, for I have nothing to hide. I have even stopped hiding from my own self, my fears, and my emotions, as I had in the past: it has really made an improvement in my life and I love basking in the truth--even when that means facing the consequences and responsibilities of my own actions. I am also here anytime you would like to share about yourself, your feelings, anything and everything and without judging you or any expectations.

+ " I remain dedicated to saving our relationship, no matter what it takes." At the end of the last paragraph.