I'm sorry that the conversation with your WW turned out that way.

It's so hard to understand that she can repeat that nothing happened between her and OM.

Althought you are justify to call her la puta, I don't see that will take you anywhere, maybe that's what you want, not to discuss anything further but I get the impression that you two have not yet said everything there is to say.

It seems Pitman* whom I have never read, has a harder approach to infidelity. I like the MB because it asumes that we all make mistakes, althought the affair is solely responsability of the WS or WW.

WW like yours or like G seem to have some fragility or vulnerability that make them more vulnerable to have an affair, in their weakness may also be their charm...

I like the Christian vision that we are forgiven or saved* not because or merits or qualities but because of the Grace.

Anyway, I hope you aren't having a too rough night to night. Time to get out that Superman outfit.

((T))

Sorry Todd...sounds like the fog has overcome her completely. She needs major help...I know despite your anger you still care about her. I'm sure the whole exposure thing kills her to have to face what she has done...it is amazing to me, although it happens consistently like clockwork with the WS's that they can brainwash themselves into believing the bull that they spew...as if you abandoned her in her time of need.

I think you may be right to turn cold, calculated and take the necessary steps to extinguish your malignency...I don't think she will respond to anything less. The sad part is that you probably will be emotionally done with her by the time she realizes what she is losing. I know it will take some super powers to get you thru this adventure.

The COBRA coverage is usually extremely expensive and limited to a defined time frame...could you be blatant and tell her you would love nothing more than to divorce her but you wouldn't give her the pleasure and let her know that the only thing you want from her is insurance coverage???? That might be a LB...hhhhmmmmm, sounds like just what the MD ordered to me...but who am I to give advice...I'm not the covergirl for Dr. Laura's the Proper care and and handling of husbands...

Could she be having a mid-life crisis? Or going through menopause?

Yes, we all make mistakes, but as Pittman says, "It is true that if an affair is blatant enough and if all ****** breaks loose, the crisis of infidelity can shake up the most petrified marriage, Of course, any crisis can serve the same detonation function, and burning the house down might be a safer, cheaper, and more readily forgivable attention-getter."

And also: "Being in love does not protect people from lust. Screwing around on your loved one is not a very loving thing to do, and it may be downright hostile. Every marriage is a thick stew of emotions ranging from lust to disgust, desperate love to homicidal rage. It would be idiotic to reduce such a wonderfully rich emotional diet to a question ("love me or love me not?") so simplistic that it is best asked of the petals of daisies. Nonetheless, people do ask themselves such questions, and they answer them.

Falling out of love is no reason to betray your mate. If people are experiencing a deficiency in their ability to love their partner, it is not clear how something so hateful as betraying him or her would restore it."

And finally: "One trick for avoiding personal blame and responsibility is to blame the marriage itself (too early, too late, too soon after some event) or some unchangeable characteristic of the partner (too old, too tall, too ethnic, too smart, too experienced, too inexperienced). This is both a cop-out and a dead end.

One marriage partner can make the other miserable, but can't make the other unfaithful. (The cuckold is usually not even there when the affair is taking place.) Civilization and marriage require that people behave appropriately however they feel, and that they take full responsibility for their actions. "My wife drove me to it with her nagging"; "I can't help what I do because of what my father did to me"; "She came on to me and her skirt was very short"; "I must be a sex addict"; et cetera. Baloney! If people really can't control their sexual behavior, they should not be permitted to run around loose.

There is no point in holding the cuckold responsible for the infidel's sexual behavior unless the cuckold has total control over the sexual equipment that has run off the road. Only the driver is responsible."

Pittman just happens to live and practice in my city. He and I are on the same wavelength. While I appreciate the fact that Drs. Harley are pro-marriage, I do not like their approach and never have. Yes, there are problems in marriages, pre-affair. Problem is, there are problems in every marriage and not every marriage, thank God, experience infidelity.

Hey 2much,

WW has called back eight times.

How do I know it is eight times?

As I said, I am nothing if not analytical and methodical. I write down everything. I keep notes. I could build a huge website in honor of her infidelity.

During conversaiton number six is when she told me not to worry about OM, that she has found someone new to "love her".

She has gone off the deep end. Exposure was a big step. Her Father, who is a most severe man, has disowned her. For those not familiar with Latin culture, WW will not be allowed to attend her Father's funeral, lest she cast shame on his memory.

She dug her hole; she can wallow in it.

Will somebody please get some kryptonite, carve some bullets our it and shoot me?

I am so sick on this [email]cr@p.[/email]

What is Pittman's full name and title of book you are quoting from. It is time for you to dig down deep for some superstuff...dust off your cape and get your plan ready...Orchid always says your heart and mind need to be in sync in order to execute your plan...are you ready?

What lyrics are you thinking of???

Don't despair, you are way bigger than any of this...I'm sure it doesn't feel like it at times but you really are...if you can fight the real deal on your own this should be managable as well...different kinda pain but still managable...what would superman do in this sitch?

...and what does Pittman say about saving a marriage or ending a marriage affected by infidelity?

Does he give any options?

I think Believer questions maybe unto something...

I understand the cultural implications more than you know...my H married me knowing he was being disowned by the very act of our marriage...that is some of the reason I hold onto trying everything possible to make our M work...I am now his only family...makes it even more crazy that he would risk loosing the one constant, faithful, comfort in his life...irony is that is what he hates the most about me now...my stability, responsibility, unconditional love...he is now interested in wild spontanaity, wrecklessness, youth...has seriously risked health in some of his antics...I just don't get it either.

Sounds like your WS has entered the land of lunacy based on your description...if nothing else she should seek IC before she seriously takes the plunge...if she didn't care about you why would she be calling repeatedly...is she a vengeful type personality or is it her Latino hot temper?
I'm sure after 36 years of marriage she knows every button of yours to push...

2Much - Private Lies by Frank Pittman

thanks BK...how are you doing?

Never better 2Much - How bout you?

One of the best infidelity books I have read is the one by Janis Abrahms Spring - "After the Affair" Actually wish I had read it oh..... on d-day. LOL

I've read a lot of books including the Pittman one.

How are you anyway 2Much?

What would Superman do?

Why, he would fly to his Fortress of Solitude and think things through. I am sorta in a solitude place.

My WW is in complete denial. I asked her again, how could she go hop in bed with OM with me literally lying in bed, with her thinking I am dying?

Guess what she said? Todd, you don't have a brain tumor. You are making it up just like you made up my affair.

That is how crazy and luny the woman has become.

Pio and I talked about this possibility many times. Since both our wives are Latin, they were raised in similarly religious and cultually conservative backgrounds, hence when the affair came to light, they were tasked with juxtaposing their conservative background against what they had done.

Hence, the reason why my WW told me that "God knows what I have done". She used a mirror to deflect the light from her to me. A defense mechanism as it were.

Translated: she is cracking up. I truly believe she could flip out and go crazy at this point.

Know what WW lacks at this point?

Empathy.

My WW used to be the most emphathetic person in the world. So here we talked tonight for the first time since March and guess how many times she asked about my health?

Zero.

The same number of times she had asked before I moved out. Don't misunderstand me: I don't want sympathy. I am way past the need for that. I would like support from the woman to whom I gave thirty six years of my life to and share three wonderful sons with. But it is not there. Everything in her world is a prism that lets in good light and reflects any bad light towards me or some other fool.

I have been through he!! to be honest. She has no idea. I will never share it with her. Fortunately, I am a very strong person. I have not told my sons many things I have been told. I keep them to myself.

Are my heart and head aligned? Not right now. Right now, my head is as hot as it can get and my heart - my heart is stuck in my throat.

BK,
I'll have to check out both books...I've read tons but not those two. I am hanging in there. Had MC #1 this week...H running hot/cold since but did attend and was pretty honest with MC. I'm trying to be patient and not too enthusiastic and see what H takes the initiative with...very hard for me since I am an overall go getter and it kills me to wait for someone to take the lead...especially when the trust factor is at ground zero. Next appt in 2 weeks due to scheduling issues. I have nothing but time at this point so I'm willing to throw it all out there if he is willing to work as a team...waiting to see evidence of teamwork!

Any suggestions?

2much - sucks but the BS really does seem to take the lead in recovery at least at the beginning.

Wanna try a contest to see who has read the most infidelity books - damn if that wasn't true it might even be funny. I swore I was not going to read any more books but you know..... I feel like I am an amazon gold customer. Infidelity books and relationship books. I swear if they don't stack at least 18" high...

Todd - how are you feeling? Does superman get fearful?

Pio - Where are you?

I'm fine.




No.

Todd (aka Mr. Kent)

I have said this before (and I will most likely say this again one day): Probably the worst thing that can happen when dealing with the trauma of infidelity is reaching a state of inaction where both parties accept the pain level without resolving the issues. Sort of an emotional plateau.

In many cases this is what people think is “reconciliation”. It’s not. At best it can be a period of time to gather resources and strength but at worst it’s just a time-bomb waiting to go off.

That’s why I am going to congratulate you on your last confrontation with WW. Although it didn’t get you closer to her then it did get you closer to your final decision. Whether I wish you reconcile with your WW or not is not relevant. What you truly want is all that matters.

Honestly – although this site is called Marriage Builders I think this forum is more about personal growth. That growth can lead to reconciliation but infidelity can also lead to divorce. At the end of the day I just hope that this forum helps its members to accept the final outcome.

Just remember Todd that your WW is not your Kryptonite. I have a feeling you tend to be your own Kryptonite.

WW is Lex Luthor.



Bigger, I have no idea what this means.

Todd, you say your W had forgotten how analytical & methodical you are. My ex had counted on me to be myself which is not methodical or analytical. This allowed him the ability to lie about his relationship & assume I believed him when he said he wasn't involved with another. This after 20 years. ex felt perfectly ok with his infidelity because in his mind the marriage was over years previous. Re-written history & news to me.

In the end it didn't matter. Though I live in a no fault state my attorney had witten things in such a way that presummed proof of an affair or at circumstancial evidence of one. His attorney either didn't catch it or had no way to ask for changes before things were presented to the judge. You should be in a good position with the evidence you have.

Sick that WS have the ability to twist a bend & then believe their lies. What's worse is the fact that after so many years it all ends in a fight about money.

I haven't been on this board until recently so I don't know the history of your physical troubles but I'm sorry to hear you have two malignancies. I wish you well with that. Are your sons available to help you?

BK, don't you mean 18 ft high??? Do books on tape count? How bout research articles? If I enrolled in a study would I get more points?

When you said BS usually take the lead in the beginning of MC were you referring to the tone/direction or amount of work? I wasn't sure if you were empathizing with me for having to wait or if you were inferring that my WS wasn't doing his part yet? Either way I'd be interested in your input. I'm going bonkers cuz I have told him repeatedly what I need from him and he is giving me some of it but I have zero faith and when he gave me his cell password I could care less since I feel like he either got a new phone or is using another means to comm with OWs...how do you go from 1500 TMs per month to 5 a day only to your wife and have no incoming TMs???? Did he put out a bulletin to not use his cell or is it diverting to a different #? Can all other calls/TM be blocked from the billing? If he has cut off all contact that would be great but I just don't see it...still secretive about lots of other stuff...but spending tons more at home time and making an effort to spend time together although very akward since we have nothing in common any more...

Used to have sharp mind and attention to detail for anything and everything...since all the infidelity stuff he is like Edith Bunker...I told him it was because he was having to juggle people, stories, lies, energies to try and keep everyone happy and he totally agreed.

He made a comment to me about how I don't know how hard it was for him to cut contact with all OWs...he looked extremely sad and was dead serious...I told him calmly that I couldn't feel sorry for him since I am his wife...I agreed it was probably very hard but couldn't really empathize since the whole thing was still very painful to me...he got angry although he said he understood...

What the heck am I supposed to do in those situations...I can objectively feel bad but I personally feel like those are the consequences of his actions...what'd ya think?