Melody, I am still stunned that you have not heard me say that I know this isn't the best way to handle this in general. I don't want or expect any support for what I am doing. MB has been invaluable to me through my reading it has helped me understand why I did what I did. I am not advocating my method for anyone else but me. I really would prefer it if i could do the radical honesty. This is the first and only time I have ever been dishonest with my H in my life. It's not my way of life. But in this case I feel it's necessary. Call it a justification, call it what you want, I am not trying to convince anyone it is the best way to mend a marriage.

It isn't a matter of not wanting to hear what MB have to offer. I have heard it all and read it all I very well know that the underlying reasons for these methods are the very best.

If you knew my particular situation and my H's personality, I think you might understand. I haven't wanted to post those things because of TMI. I just wanted to hang out and be a nice person, supportive of others if I could and learn what I could about all aspects of MB. I really have no hidden agenda.

Kiwi, I'm not too sure I'm going to like DD's reports on Americans. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Dr. Harley on honesty:

From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

2much,

Brilliantly said.

thanx

have you heard from the doc?

Nams, I am not even sure that anyone perceived what OM and I had to be an affair. I haven't until very recently confided in anyone. And low and behold that person actually seems to understand that I was totally blindsided about my feelings and truly perplexed as to the cause. This is more about me than it is about my marriage. The problems I had are a symptom of my underlying problem not a problem with the marriage itself. Granted it's not perfect, but I have never thought it was right to expect to have a perfect marriage. When humans are involved, by definition things are not perfect.

No, unless it is an urgent sitch, he typically calls after hours, so prolly in a hour or two.

I did see red font starting a couple of hours ago. I rubbed butter in my eyes as someone suggested, but that did not help one bit. In fact, I see blurry now. Maybe I should use steam to melt the butter. Hmm....

fc, the cause most certainly is about you, but an affair is very much about a marriage. An affair is a devastating blow to a marriage and honesty is the only solution. Everyone is "blindsided" by feelings before an affair, but that never justifies an affair.

Todd, not in your eyes you fool.

You should rub butter on the computer screen and then iron the computer screen.

I guarantee you won't see any more red fonts.

Melody, you still don't get it. I am not trying to justify anything. I don't feel I owe you or anyone else any explanations. I have to do what I feel is right for me. It may be the 1 case out of ten gillion that goes against the conventional wisdom. But until I can see that in my particular situation that it is the best, I will not do it. I am not even trying to argue the point.

I however, do not want to be berated here or anywhere else because I happen to disagree with you. I am a reasonably smart person, and mostly emotionally intact. I don't want to lose what I do have. I have worked hard to get where I am even though you in one sentence dismissed that I had made any progress at all. I am not going to let you tell me that I am not doing better, because I know I am.


Everyone is "blindsided" by feelings before an affair....

Melody I do not believe that. Say it all you want with a maximum of force and every other insulting way you want, but you will never make me believe that this is how everyone feels. There are too many instances of pure evil on this board for me to believe that. I do not think that all affairs begin innocently.

Jen, lol. Now we know what happened to your computer monitor.

2much, I very much appreciate your rational approach to my sitch. I understand exactly what you are saying and at some time it may be possible for me to pursue the policy of radical honesty. Right now it is not.

Again I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but has it occurred to any of you that I am still married and reasonably happy. I have not had to go to the extreme measures that you all have had to go to. So far, I have a lot of hope for mending myself and my relationship. It's not the best but right now it's pretty good by comparison. No justification, just a rationalization for me keeping on a path that seems to be leading out of this morass. I am a firm believer in if what you are doing is working, then you keep on doing it. I am sure there are all sorts of theories of how to repair a marriage. MB seems to make the most sense, but is there no other way?? New things are discovered all the time. I may find that this will end in disaster, but I have to do what I think is correct for my situation.

I am not even saying that my solution is right. But for now I am experiencing success. I am not on a quest for perfection because I understand it is not possible.

But it doesn't "go against the conventional wisdom" at all. There is no "wisdom" that advocates trickery and fraud and deceit. Anyone who does advocate those traits is certainly not "wise" but cruel and dishonest.



I don't consider it "progress" to live in a marriage based on a lie. That is not progress by most standards. It certainly is not "progress" for your husband. And cannot be in any way construed as "recovery." Honesty is the solution to adultery, not more lies.



Well, all affairs are evil, regardless of one's feelings about them. NO affair is "innocent." They are filthy, vile and putrid. But be assured that we hear the term "blindsided" every day around here; most affairs start that way. It doesn't justify them or make them any less filthy than the affair of a serial cheater. All affairs are the same; filthy, vile and putrid.

No, you are not "mending" you marriage by deceiving your H, fc. That is a self serving illusion you are using to rationalize your continued deceit and fraud. Nothing will ever "mend" until you are truthful with your H. A marriage based on lies, deceit and fraud cannot possibly "mend."

It is the TRUTH that will "lead you out of this morass," fc, not more lies.


No, you have only successfully deceived your H for now. But your marriage, that is based on fraud, is not successful. It is a sham.

Melody, I am not going to continue to give credence to you as a person who is smart, successful, or nice. It's a waste of my time to interact with you. You are so intent on hurling mud that you don't even actually understand what I am saying. I did not say that my way was conventional wisdom. I have said in about 4 different places that MB is the best way. Do you hear me now?????????

And I sure as He!! dont' think you are happily recovered. If you are the poster girl for MB, I don't want any part of it. You simply must be miserable. You need prayers. Lots of them. If you continue to be so holier than thou, it will be not very long before this attitude comes back to bite you. I NEVER want to act like you do and if it's evidence of your happiness, I will take misery in preference to your brand of happiness any day.

I don't care what you consider to be progress in my marriage. You are not in it. I am.

FC...

If you are concerned that telling your H about your affair might result in an outcome that is undesireable to you...you are correct.

It absolutely could.

Would you humor me a moment and address the reason why?

Free will and the ability to carry out decisions of our own choosing. The hallmark and right of adulthood.

By not disclosing this very RELEVENT information you refuse him the right to freely CHOOSE...you take away his choices...you control and manipulate him with lies.

Does this sound loving to you?

The clear and direct message being received by me in your posts is I will do what works for me EVEN if it is *at the expense* of my husband...as long as I am getting what I want...as long as MY world is not disrupted...all is well.

This is a very *selfish* way to conduct your life...you are operating on the premise that you are the only person who counts...the only person who gets power of veto...the only person who makes the decisions about BOTH of your lives.

This is not an issue of MB or method of recovery...it is an issue of dishonesty...disrespect...manipulation...and common decency...or the lack of it.

The first thing to recover is your integrity.

Ditto.

Oh My Goodness - This thread EXPLODED overnight. WOW. It'll take me a week to catch up.

fc, I am sorry you don't like what you hear, but the problem is that [censored] has a very short shelf life on this forum and just doesn't "work." Unfortunately, you probably won't find many who will believe that it is "progress" to deceive your H about your affair and trick him into believing you and the OM are "just good friends." Nor would anyone believe that a marriage based on fraud and deceit is a "good" marriage. That would be silly to believe any such thing, wouldn't it now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Do you think its "nice" to manipulate and deceive your loved ones? Down here in Texas we call those folks rattlesnakes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> What do they call them in your part of the country?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />