I was reading through here and felt I had something to say... then I got to the last post and realized that Mel already said it... but I'll say some of it anyways...

Mr. and Mrs. W have chosen not to go to the reunion because they are aware of and respect the dangers of the addiction. I don't believe Mrs. W feels compelled, but knows and respects how people can fall.

Feelings for OM... it sounds like a huge "NO". Vulnerable to human failings again??? Mrs. W doesn't want to risk what she has to find out.

I have nothing but respect for both of you, Mr. and Mrs. W. A long and prosperous M, I'm sure.

An interesting point, though, from Rose about the question of honesty by posters when both are posting. I don't believe it is an issue with the W's, but something to be aware of.

Mrs. W... I'm just thankful that your H was helping me along... Your insight is excellent, and your charming personality comes through clearly... but I don't think I would have had the patience to read through all your posts if it were you helping. I'd be long divorced by now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That said... always a pleasure to hear from you.

Shaden

No, but this statement is wrong. Your perspective is helpful...if we have the stamina to read it....LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I think about moments in the A--which is not very often considering how much recovery absorbs the recovering mind--I feel sad for wasting that time. Life affords so little as it is.

KariJean...we have a 6 year old...thus, I think the exact same thing everytime I see Stanley herein as well. In fact, thanks to you I can't stop whistling the introduction to the show... "Welcome to Stanley's World" (which I think is performed by the group Baha-men?).

Mr. W

ROTFLMAO

Very good post Shaden, I see your working on that Canadian politeness issue quite, er, nicely. lol

Catch you on the flip-flop.

Go Red Wings.

W

Threadjack: Mr. W, I am guessing that you are a lawyer. Am I right?

Ummm, yeah, WHY? Do only lawyers whistle???

W

It was a dead give away when you honed in on the one term that motivated the response posts.

This is different.

I have some past relationships I am indifferent to..and others I cherish - like my first boyfriend...and sometimes I do wonder how his life turned out - I NEVER wonder if things could work for us - we were young puppy love - haha - the mistakes you make back then!

I had other relationships that were during parts of my life where I was NOT well (my self destructive coping patterns I discovered recently) And THOSE love relationships were toxic...I do not ever think of them anymore, unless an occasion like this reminds me of them.

I never had a desire to marry or spend my life with anyone of these people, which makes my current love affair with my husband so unique, special and cherished.

MY affair with my ex-OM fits into the toxic part of my life...it was not a love affair that i learned from, or was part of life...it was a toxic relationship based on where I was in MY life at that time.

If I didn't fix my cycle of TOXIC coping cycles...i might be bound to find another OM one day along the road...wouldn't matter about who the OM is...just something to cope...

Why I believe like ahuman said...it's fixing inside what's most important...and then because we are all human - I am no better than Kiwi or suzet...protecting myself incase my changes AREN"T failproof..

I dont wonder how OM is doing...I dont wonder how my toxic relationship partners are doing from my past...

OM no longer pops up into mind (both fondly NOR hatefully ...I can say that now 19 months later...in fact...the only time he is even remembered is when I am on MB using my experiences to perhaps help someone else...

Perhaps that is a danger to me?

Dorry,

I am indifferent toward Ishmeal...he's not a real person anyway. He is just a character in a novel...so I can freely discuss the book "The Old Man and Sea" without hesitation or fear of having feelings for Ishmeal.

Same with the OP's...they are all merely characters in all of our lives. They do not represent anything more than a fictional character or a real character that was killed off in the middle of the story. As you steer your way through life you can go back an re-read it or discuss it, alas, it was only a few pages ago, but it doesn't mean you care (edited to add:or risk caring cause I KNOW YOU DON'T) about him/her...it's just your history. You're HERE today, in real life.

One step forward, nothing more, nothing less.

Mr. W

p.s. - Thanks for the love Mrs. W, right back at ya!

Lets not forget that Mrs W is writing for the speedy recovery of Mr. H. I believe some people write in the forum what others want to hear.



Ahuman; this is what KariJean said about that:



Falling in love within an affair is no different than falling in love while not having an affair. However, the love feelings are stronger within an affair because the obsessive component is much higher. That is why some folks in affairs have such a hard time breaking away from OP without a d-day. That is why they try 100 times and fail each time.

No - the love feelings aren'T STRONGER...the addiction is STRONGER. Very important to seperate the two...

let me add to that.

HOW exOM made me feel was why I failed over and over...not how I FELT about exOM...And I do believe that is the case for MANY MANY FWW...

Ahuman...You sneaky thing you...Mr. W's "honing skills" are AWESOME, but I gave away his "attorneyhood" in my earlier post...Well, that and his love for the word "herein"...LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree with you that my above statement about my perspective not being helpful is wrong...I should have said, it appears to be unhelpful to Stanley...

And Shaden, you Canadian Dawg you!!! My posts are not normally so ridiculously long...HONEST...Within this arena, a FWS(or at least this one) feels it necessary when describing their own situation to be overly explanatory so that nothing is misconstrued...Alas, then the length gets misconstrued...It's a real "balls to the wall" vantage point from which to post I can assure you...I really appreciate your kind words about us...U be cool too, my friend!

Happy Early Canada Day to you and Dorry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

This isn't true. But I think I understand the point you are trying to make. The 'feelings of romantic love' are perceived (biologically as a reward system in the brain) the same.

That said, not even that is the same. I never experienced the internal guilt and self-destruction when falling in love with my H, as I did in my A, so the neurological reward was not the same.

Apparently, coke addicts experience stimulation in the dopamine pathways--similar to those in love. Are they in love with cocaine?

All love relationships start with the way the other person makes us feel.

All friendships start with the way the other person makes us feel.

Which is why we pursue relationships and take them further. If a friend always makes you feel worse after talking to them you tend to let the friendship go cold. If a friend is constantly negative towards you, you let the friendship go cold.

Dorry, I posted that I only thought of the OM when I was on MB and it was the sincere truth. I was so relieved that it WAS the sincere truth. Anyone, like JL or others who posted back to me when I first came her, will attest to the struggle to get that point.

Believe me, my boundaries are firmly in place now. They will always need to be there no matter how indifferent I think I am to the OM.

All I want to concentrate on now is making my H "wildly" happy, not just happy. Oh, you'll have all missed the post (because I deleted it) where I said to him I'd told the board that he was wildly happy and he said "I'm happy, I'm not wildly happy."

Folks,

I read the first page of this rather long and interesting thread. It struck me that there is a piece of the logic missing from the "grand" statements being made about a WS.

If you consider that contact with OM/OW is to be avoided because there will always be an attraction, then isn't the converse always true as well. Contact with BS will always lead to attraction and those loving feelings will come back right? Now given that BS usually occupies a much larger portion of the WS life and has loved them longer and probably even had children with them, the OP would NOT be a threat right?

So if you read this carefully, you will see a bit of a contradiction here. IF ALWAYS is true for OP, then it must be also true for the BS and by definition the BS would always win. This strongly suggests that the ALWAYS is not really valid. It also suggests that Dr. Harley's encouragement to avoid OP is a precaution based in the uncertainties of life.

You see if the WS's marriage is strong, EN's being met, communications open and strong, OP has little chance. If however contact with OP occurs when the marriage is in a low spot, or there are other issues in the marriage, short term or long term, then contact with OP could be disasterous.

Dr. Harley cannot predict the future, neither can any of us SOOOO the prudent thing is to avoid contact. However, the encouragement to avoid contact does NOT mean that the WS always and will always feel love for the OP. Hence it seems to me that Mrs W is not blowing smoke or protesting too much. However, that does not obviate the potential that some day in the future their marriage might not be in a high point and temptation would rear its ugly head. For that matter that also means Mr. W is very likely vulnerable as well.

So Dr. S as much as I agree with alot of what you say, I do think Mrs. W has a point. She could very very easily be completely over OM and feel little or nothing for him. The issue is the future when things may be different.

I think in the case of Suzet and Jen, the communications was NOT where it should or needed to be, and clearly issues within their marriage lingered. Yet, also consider that both came here and opened up about it and via one method or another their H's have been informed and both couples are working on their marriage. So was contact preordained or the death of the marriages? Who knows but hopefully not.

Stanley you and Myrta are an example where communications have improved alot, although Myrta is still pretty defensive. I doubt she loves OM, I do agree with the posters that pointed out the wording in the emails was to get their fix of emotional high and excitement, not because they felt that way.

Just some thoughts.

God Bless you all,

JL

I believe you KiwiJ...and it's why I will never test my changes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I think it;s also why MrsW cancelled her high school reunion. We made some big changes...we fixed alot of whats in us...but what if I was in your shoes? I KNOW I would run..I know I wouldn't give in...but how do i REALLY know? I am not willing to test it out. It has nothing to do with how I feel about OM, it's more on how I KNOW he can make me feel...

JL, honestly, I've said it before and I'll say it again, give up the science stuff and become an MC.

You ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Of course, but they (the healthy ones) are not motivated by the way that person makes you feel about YOU...

My point was that if the relationship makes you feel so good that you would lie and hurt those people you once loved, its not about the relationship. Its about personal issues. Unbalanced personal needs not being addressed directly.

Exactamundo! This was what I was trying to say, but you said it better, JL. Like I always say about the alcoholic hanging out in bars, someday the inevitable weak moment arrives, and he is back to drinking.

It is the same with adultery, I believe. They may have all the resolve in the world, but someday, some time, they will have a weak moment, and if the opportunity is right there, they just may take it... Better to just stay away from the bar in the first place. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />