MEDC, you send me a response yesterday, but since that thread is locked now and since I feel I have a right to respond and voice some questions and concerns to you, I will respond to you here:

Yesterday I posted the following on the locked thread:

Your responded with the following:

Firstly MEDC, yes, some people did call me out on my actions directly…you are correct about that and I don't have a problem with that. But NO one ever said on THIS board (or to me directly) that "they distance themselves from me until I do the right thing (in their opinion)". The only one I can recall who said something of some sort was Pep...her exacts words were: "we are all in the sisterhood but if you refuse to do this exposure you have removed yourself from my sisterhood”. She was the ONLY one who has been open and honest with me regarding "distancing" herself from me. So I’m really wondering who are all the other MB vets you were talking about…and since I don’t know about them, you obviously know something I don’t…and the only way you can know about something which was said about me and I’m not aware of…is if there were some “off-board” conversations going on behind my back…

Secondly, if you deny that such conversations, “gossiping” and “conspiracy” was taken place about me AND some other individual members, I want to remind you again of the following you’ve posted on your locked thread:

Then Knewbetter posted you the following:

And you responded and confirmed with the following:

So as you can see MEDC, you have confirmed YOURSELF that there WAS some private “off-board” discussions taking place before you have posted your “list of names”...and obviously the "list of names" was discussed "off-board" as well before you've posted it because the whole purpose of your thread was for new members to "avoid" the people who's names appeared on your "list". And since I was INCLUDED in that "list of names" of yours, I was obviously discussed too by you and other members before you have continued on and posted that "list".

Now, what I want to know from you is:

1. WHO are these MB vets you've discussed me "off-board" with behind my back?

AND

2. WHERE have these discussion taken place? On e-mail or a private board? And if it was on a private board, WHO’s private board is it?

I have a right to know and the reason I want to know is because I’m in the process of deciding if I’m going to leave these boards permanently or not… Because I don’t know if I want to continue posting on a place where I don’t feel safe anymore, especially after I’ve read the following post of Jen yesterday:

Jen, in case you’re reading here, I just want to thank you for that post... You did a brave thing, but I think members deserve to know what’s going on… Thanks again for sharing that...

Suzet, I fear you've become WAYYY to emotionally invested in this place.

These people owe you nothing. You owe them nothing.

We all have to realize that what is posted says far more about the poster than it does anyone else.

MEDC and others can only hurt you if let them. Stop letting them.

Let your posts speak for themselves...you don't owe anyone an explanation of them. If they don't like them, they know where the "ignore" button is.

I'm sure I'm on several ignore lists...

But you know what? The coffee I'm drinking still tastes sooo good...

PS, Do you think you guys will ever make it to Cape Town? I have to fly to Jo-burg in October...

Low, I think you’re correct… I’m too upset and hurt over this whole issue. But if there’s one thing in this world I can’t stand, it’s “clicks” and “little groups” gossiping about others and “teaming up” against others. Even in real live I can’t stand this type of behavior…it OUTRAGES me…and I had a need to speak out about it… In my childhood I’ve experienced these type of “clicks” in school…I’ve distanced myself from such “groups” because I hated what they were doing…and as a result I never felt I “fitted in” with any of the “popular groups”. I still see this type of behavior in my adult life today…at my work…where there is a certain “click” of woman who likes to gossip and discuss other colleagues behind their backs… It’s disgusting and I will rather fit in “nowhere” than to identify myself with such “groups”. Maybe this is why this happening of yesterday was such a big trigger for me.

I guess it’s true. I have to learn to take things not so personally!

Good advice, I will try to follow it.

Mine too - especially the Cappuccino one with thick cream on top! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Maybe PE (Port Elizabeth) one or other time (during the months of September or December) – this is the closest we might get to Cape Town. Friends of ours have moved to PE recently and we want to visit them sometime this year. How long are you going to stay in Jo-burg and when does your one year contract in SA ends?

Suzet, I thought much the same thing as Low Orbit yesterday and didn't get around to posting it. I've been involved in a few discussions in my day, and I've long since accepted that a whole lot of people will be horrified by my very existence.

And my coffee, like LO's, still tastes fantastic. (It's a mix of Henry's decaf and Barritta (sp?) Colombian. Bizarre, I know, but I made it strong and it's smoooth without a bit of the sour taste that I dislike so much.)

Suzet,

I'd ignore it too. In checking mkeverydaycnt's history, it appears he's never been married (close, but his fiancee cheated on him). He's apparently angry and lacks compassion, he doesn't display much in way of MB skills, and I wouldn't take anything that he says to heart.

Work on your situation---you've been around here long enough to know what you need to do. It's not fun to be on the outside of a clique, but it's often not anymore fun to be on the inside, either.

((Suzet))

I may be way off base here, but I was wondering if you were exhibiting such strong reactions to certain posts/posters because you are feeling guilty about not telling OMW.

I ask this sincerely. As you know, H and I POJA'd not informing OMW as well. While I stuck to our agreement since Dday, I had continuous strong pangs of guilt surrounding this issue on and off for nearly a year.

My sense is that you have some guilt as well. You had followed my thread, and had asked me at one point if I had heard from OMW. This says, to me, that you also have similar thoughts.

Breaking POJA feels like a betrayal to H, but it's also a continuous betrayal of OMW. Both don't feel very good.

I also have been upset with these boards recently. There has been too much intellectualizing and not enough helping.

I hope you stay. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Katie Mae

Truer words have...

How can we teach our children this, so that they don't grow up with that horrible and very lonely feeling of not being picked for the team.

It's hard to think of anything that is more frustrating then watching someone feeling like they are an outcast, or not in the "in" crowd. Feelings such as these carry over into adulthood way too often.

I'm generalizing here Suzet*...but your words on that other thread really touched home, the ones about feeling as if you were being talked about.

You know the dream of being in the high school gym and for some reason unknown to you, not one of the people whom you thought were your friends would talk to you, or sit with you...feeling like you had the cooties and everyone whispering behind your back and snickering.

Oh no sorry, that was my nightmare... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Suzet,

I am in full agreement with LO .. which is pretty common..since LO ...is just a straight shooter..and heck...you just gotta agree with straight shooting...and LO's deliveries are perfectly timed.

I think this all went down at a very vulnerable time for you, and for that, I empathize with you...you aren't "on your game" ...because so much of your focus is on your M...where it absolutely deserves and SHOULD be.

It may not matter a hill of beans...but I have the utmost respect for you and KiwiJ. You two are long time posters...and are unfortunately... on this pedastal that people tend to believe is infallable.

It took a monumental amount of courage for both of you to admit to your recent shortcomings. You both know full well the temperment and beat of the board, and knew you'd get beaten to a pulp.

Aside from proving the obvious..that this recovery stuff is serious business... you both offered a raw look into your hearts and your vulnerabilities, and I'm truly just blown away by that.

Fight the good fight... stay diligent in your efforts...and get back to the real reason you freqent these boards. There's always someone...who looks for just one person to extend a hand.

You and Jen... are what made me come over here to begin with...as I usually spend what little time I have to post..over on the slow paced recovery board. But we're just such happy people over there...you should drop by !!!!

Katie, of course I have feelings of guilt over this (of OMW not knowing), but this was not the reason for my strong reaction.

I feel frustrated with the fact that (because me and my H can’t follow through with exposure right now) that certain posters now view me as this ‘bad foggy’ woman who doesn’t have any compassion for the OMW at all...which is not true.

Also, I feel hurt and disappointed by the fact that some people label ANYTHING I have to say regarding me and my H’s circumstances (things which are VERY real and valid to us) as justifications and rationalizations for not exposing to OMW... I’m hurt over this lack of understanding from some and the wrong assumptions they have made about me as a result of it.

Thanks for your post and care Katie...I appreciate it.

Just J, K and weaver, thanks for your posts too...

NS: Just J, your mix of coffee sounds very interesting! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Betryaedinjersey, I didn’t see your response in time because we’ve almost responded at the same time.

Anyway, I just want to thank you for your post too and thank you for your encouragement…it’s people like you (amongst others) who will make me think twice about ever leaving these boards. These damn boards are so "addictive" - it's the other problem I have on my hands! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now and then I post on In Recovery, but it’s a while since I’ve posted there. I will drop by again - thanks for the "invitation"! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Suzet, it's one of the benefits of grinding and brewing your own coffee. You can mix things that they'd never be able to sell in the stores, and you can make it just the strength you like. I'm a big fan of Starbucks coffee.... brewed at home. I do buy it from their stores as well sometimes, but it sure is more expensive that way.

Oh, and was it you that posted that really long article about marriage and divorce with Biblical analysis? Dang, that was good. I really appreciated its whole-Bible and thorough approach.

I usually take mine black but dropped a hi-liter in it this morning...gives it that special glow...

venti americano with lots of sugar

Hee hee hee. Orange or green, LO? I like mine light and sweet (coffee-color of her skin...) [Sorry, that's one of my favorite songs ever, and the refrain always runs through my head when I refer to coffee that way. If you don't know it, it's one of Suzanne Vega's songs, called "Ironbound/Fancy Poultry." It's one of the most vivid and evocative songs I've ever heard.]

Suzet,
I am not saying this to pick a fight with you but I wanted to just bring to your attention something you stated.

"I feel frustrated with the fact that (because me and my H can’t follow through with exposure right now) that certain posters now view me as this ‘bad foggy’ woman who doesn’t have any compassion for the OMW at all...which is not true.

Also, I feel hurt and disappointed by the fact that some people label ANYTHING I have to say regarding me and my H’s circumstances (things which are VERY real and valid to us) as justifications and rationalizations for not exposing to OMW... I’m hurt over this lack of understanding from some and the wrong assumptions they have made about me as a result of it."

Suzet, every ws and fws who come on this board stating that they have not told the ops are told the same exact things you are being told. Look at 2Bnormal. How many tmes was she told the same things?

Because you are a long-time poster, does that make you immune to the same statements that are made to others?

Because you are a long-time poster, you may feel it more because you are well-versed in MB and KNOW the principles, and I believe from reading your posts you KNOW you should tell. I also get the impression you are relieved that your BS says no.

Many who post to you seem to have less patience with you because you are a long time poster and maybe they expect more from you because of that. Maybe that is why it seems that a number of the vetren MBers don't post to your threads as they don't see it being effective. It happens all over the boards- people seem to post to those where they feel they can be effective. If a person is told the same thing over and over and does nothing to remedy it, then posters move on to someone else.

just my opinion

Only going to be there for a couple of days. Have to meet with some government minister about some interpretation of rule...

My contract should wrap up in Jan-Feb of next year. I like it here quite a bit. I have entertained thoughts of moving my entire family here and staying...becoming a gentleman farmer of sorts...who knows...

Yes, it was me who posted it.

Thanks for your opinion moveforward.

My issue is not the fact that posters disagree with my sitch (of course they will and I understand that). However, my main issue is that false assumptions and judgements were made about me as a result of it...but the worst...that my name was put on a little "avoiding list" for new members while I've NEVER posted advice to new members (or others) which were in conflict with the MB principles or contradicted it in ANY way...

Suzet,
My reply will be short and to the point. First, anyone that chooses to let you know that we talked is up to them. I have no intentions of letting you know with whom I spoke (do I need to carbon copy you on my emails with IWRA from today...no, it is not your business). I have had extensive email communications with people since I first arrived here. My advice and words are the same in either venue.

Whoever here said that I was never married... you failed to read the whole history. I was married and divorced in my 20's (she was my high school sweetheart and a ws). We are now great friends and she has even fixed me up on dates. For those that want to dismiss my words as the rantings of an angry man... feel free... my ex partners would say otherwise and my ex-fiancee has said so right on this site.

My positions are based on what I believe to be clearly right/wrong. If anyone has a problem understanding that... that is your problem to resolve... not mine.

I am through discussing the topic.

Suzet, as I have told you on many occasions... I wish you well... I truly hope that your M continues along its present and happy course.

MEDC

I don't disagree with anyone's situation except for people who come here involved in actual affairs and looking for validation to continue them.

Everyone else who comes here is, to me, looking like they are in a process of change. Change can sometimes take longer than some of the posters here WANT it to take. I don't see where it helps for those posters to get so nasty, to denigrate, call names, sneak off and tattletale, or take upon themsleves the right to do any number of things that could possibly cause more harm than good.

They may feel justified in taking the risk, but it isn't their lives that are being toyed with.

I honestly figure, if you can't help, then stay out of it. That is myself included. There are a few people who come along who I feel I can't help, like those involved in full blown active affairs. It hurts me too much and I don't want to lash out at them at a point in time where they could be, if given the right guidence, on the verge of making some all around positive choices.

Reading the locked threads yesterday, yes, I do agree, there does appear to be a small group of hardliners who have an agenda going. And I don't think I am alone in considering the possibility that they make their plans on another board and then come here to carry them out.
From my perspective that is just plain Evil. I am disgusted by the behavior and its intent.

As for MEDC, well as one poster noted earlier in this thread, they have issues. I can't say I have seen MEDC actually post all that much to help. Most of his posts are attacks, starting threads to gain attention, profanities directed at people he disagrees with, posts that attack in support of people from the other board who are carrying out attacks on people here...all I figure is he has some pretty deep wounds and he still needs to work through them. I am sad he has such anger, I have been in that state myself before and it is such a weight that makes misery out of the entire day and colors the perspective of the world to where it becomes a source of even more pain.

Anyhow, I wish you would not leave Suzet, though after reading here for 4 years, I can see why you might want to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />