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You did well enough. Next you need more info from Steve Harley. I'm not surprised she refused to leave and told you to leave instead; I'd expect just about anyone in that situation to say the same thing. I think you need advice from the pro on how to handle that.

Unlike MyAlias, I think her statment of physical fear of you is legitimate. Your LB history is spectacular and cruel, and you did freely choose to cross the line into physical intimidation, which is a form of physical abuse whether you like to admit it or not. By my standards, I'd have thrown you out twenty times over AND had you arrested.

You have improved, but that improvement was punctured by your drunken outburst and some other problems. That further trashes your credibility in her eyes as far as believing any improvements are for real.

I still think Plan B is the best you can do in this situation since your wife refuses to work on the marriage. I don't think she owes you anything as far as working on the marriage, but that doesn't mean she gets to cake-eat. Leaving is ok, staying and working on it is ok, cake-eating is not.

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Hello Guys,

I am holding together ok right now. Not sure that I did much of anything yesterday, or accomplished anything. I am very confused right now. I just want a great M with WW right now and this hurts.

I really think Mys has it right. I think W did not take me seriously. I think she thinks if anything, it was just another argument and that it was because I was upset with her going to see a girl friend.

I met with a lawyer/lobbyist who works for me. I spoke to him briefly. He is hand picking me an attorney and will get back to me today.

I have a live check comming, which normally would be deposited into our account directly on Friday. I guess the next step would be to let WW know that I have rerouted my checks and will write out the checks from now on. However, I should probably also tell her that she needs to pay for her own cell phone, car and entertainment right now.

I was considering calling a realestate agent to ask questions about listing our house. I thought it might be good to let WW know I was looking into the possibility and that the realestate agent told me we could expect a loss on the house, because of the current market in our area.

Maybe let her know that I am going to talk with an attorney to find out what each of our rights are regarding a legal seperation.

If I do these three things, just maybe she will take me serious.

I am currently stuck. I thought WW might actually agree to looking into some kind of plan last night, but in the end I felt she felt cornered and whenever she feels cornered she cuts her nose of to spite her face! This is a classic pattern she has repeated several times before.

I also found it really interesting last night how quickly she changed her tune about moving out. She was so loud about moving out when I tried to talk with her the last few times, and then really changed her tune last night. I guess this just goes to show that most of what she tells me is probably manipulative BS!

She did ask about S last night and what my plan was for him. I told her that he needed both his parents and that we should have equal custody. Funny, isn't it? It is as though, for the moment, I held all the power.

After a while of our discussion, she started telling me that my whinning and begging pushes her away. I realize her POV is her POV but I do not believe I was whinning and begging. I do believe now that she will say whatever she has to to try and keep things how they are.

I cannot live like this much longer. She blames me for the way our S acts right now. She says he learns how to treat her based upon how he sees me treating her. I said, "Our S is smart and he sees what you do and acts accordingly."

Why do I feel as though I have blown it some how? I don't know. My emotions are all over the place.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EL

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Hey SilverPool,

I just realized we are in the same city! Thanks for the advice. I suspect going dark right now is the right move. I am trying to get a hold of SH right now for a quick 5 minute follow up. Hopefully, I can get his advice soon. If I can't, I guess I will go dark.....

If I do not hear fron SH, then I am not sure if I should pull the trigger on the finances tonight, or wait another day.

This is horrible. I feel as though I am scheming against my W. I guess I am not scheming against my W, but I am against the WW.

Take Care,

EL

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You didn't blow anything last night -- it was going to go haywire no matter what you did. Don't kick yourself about that.

Your financial plans sound good. My thoughts would be to go ahead and move forward with them, but it all comes down to what SH thinks.

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EL:

FWIW -- I would tell you to get the finances under control and pull the plug. Also meet with the attorney asap. The reason I say this is to protect YOU and your rights. To sit passively by and think that your W will just go back to the status quo may be a detrimental assumption.

If you intend to remain in the house and have your S with you, the least you should do right now is to get the legal documents in order in case you should need it in a very timely manner. To be complacent right now may not be in your or your S's best interest.

You don't have to serve anything on W, but it's better to be prepared than to be caught flat-footed.

JMHO...


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I am holding together ok right now. Not sure that I did much of anything yesterday, or accomplished anything. I am very confused right now. I just want a great M with WW right now and this hurts.

It's to be expected. She's in some pretty serious denial -- about the state of your marriage and about her contributions to getting you to that state.

Your actions will be what matters (it always was, really).

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I have a live check comming, which normally would be deposited into our account directly on Friday. I guess the next step would be to let WW know that I have rerouted my checks and will write out the checks from now on. However, I should probably also tell her that she needs to pay for her own cell phone, car and entertainment right now

Ethically, you need to let her know right away or checks will start bouncing. Expect her to get **really** angry. Last night was probably just a trifle compared to what she'll pull when she sees you actively taking actions to match your words. She's probably going to accuse you of things you've never even heard of -- just steel yourself for it, recognize that it's mostly anger talking, be careful (take a tape recorder if you need to), and get out as soon as you can.

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I was considering calling a realestate agent to ask questions about listing our house. I thought it might be good to let WW know I was looking into the possibility and that the realestate agent told me we could expect a loss on the house, because of the current market in our area.

You called or your expect to take a loss? I'm confused here.

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Maybe let her know that I am going to talk with an attorney to find out what each of our rights are regarding a legal seperation.

Smart idea. Make sure you have yourself covered with regards to the important things (like custody).

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I also found it really interesting last night how quickly she changed her tune about moving out. She was so loud about moving out when I tried to talk with her the last few times, and then really changed her tune last night. I guess this just goes to show that most of what she tells me is probably manipulative BS!

She doesn't really have many good options to go to, El. I'm sure she's scared and worried that the rug is being pulled out from under her. Expect her to fight as hard as possible to keep the status quo.

Take her concerns about physical abuse seriously and do not allow yourself to be in any situation where you can be falsely accused or tempted into 'borderline behavior' or you'll find yourself out of the house with a restraining order against you. For no other reason, this is a good idea not to push your luck being around her too much.

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Why do I feel as though I have blown it some how? I don't know. My emotions are all over the place.

Because you hate conflict, you want to work this out like 'reasonable adults' and this just isn't how you ever wanted things to be. You're normal, in other words.

You're doing the best you can right now.

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This is horrible. I feel as though I am scheming against my W. I guess I am not scheming against my W, but I am against the WW.

You're not scheming. You're setting and finally enforcing some realistic boundaries.

Mys

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After a while of our discussion, she started telling me that my whinning and begging pushes her away. I realize her POV is her POV but I do not believe I was whinning and begging. I do believe now that she will say whatever she has to to try and keep things how they are.


You don't believe it was whining because you see your communications as trying to provide hope for a possible recovery.

She's in withdrawal and thinks any efforts are futile. So she sees your attempts as being desparate, needy, clingy, whiny.

She also thinks you are bluffing now that you've changed your tone. We all know it isn't a bluff so you know what's next: My friend it's time to give her a huge dose of EL GONE DARK.

If she wants to just be left alone then give her what she wants. I agree with what silverpool said earlier. I'd follow that as much as possible. No more heartfelt communications. No more trying to convince MB is the way. No more discussion about what you once had and could have again. You're done. You no longer want to hold out hope. Any hope of this thing coming around have to be initiated by her. Without saying it you're bouncing her the ball while you go off to play solo on another court (with your S of course).

Work towards being self-sufficient. Try to do your own chores - laundry, dishes, cleaning, errands, groceries, etc. You could do some of hers as well so you don't come off looking mean but do it with minimal interaction with her.

What what's MWIL's motto during his darkest times: Calm, strength, quiet. BE STILL!

Let her rant all she wants. You don't react. You remain calm and walk away. Time to be VERY, VERY DARK.

The question is can you do it?

Last edited by MyAlias; 10/10/06 12:30 PM.

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(((((EL))))))

Hang in there. THese steps seem to bring all the most painful parts into sharp relieff.

Follow SH's advice, and re-read Myschae's last post if you need to... Good advice in there, too!

Lots of peope here who care about you.

(((((EL)))))


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EL....

Please take notice about something RIGHT NOW.....I lived your HE11 for almost 5 years....and as I approached where you are right now I had occasional "melt downs"....when my wife suddenly pulled out the "I'm scared of you" routine I should have known better. She went into court with her lawyer and told the judge that I was "not stable, threatened her, threatened to take children"....so..instead of just getting served divorce papers I was given a TRO where she was granted temp custody until I went to court....and then it was on....but......

you need to protect yourself and your family.....and be careful and COGNIZANT of her PERCEIVED danger...of course she is scared....


Me BS - 44
FWW- 42
EA for 4 years with fellow employee
became PA in Jan 04 - I knew of this one.
Seperated/ Divorced July 03
2 sons 14 & 12
D Day -6/26/04- PA in 1998 for about 1 year- I had NO idea.
recovery and reconciliation began 6/27/04

Remarried 2/18/06

My story?? Click below.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=129980&Number=1575914
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Hello Mys,

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It's to be expected. She's in some pretty serious denial -- about the state of your marriage and about her contributions to getting you to that state.

Your actions will be what matters (it always was, really).


Right, I can see this pretty clearly. I can see that she does not take what I had to say too seriously, nor does she seem to think last night was profound or different. Heck, this could be her way of reacting to this stressful situation. I am not even sure if S made it to school today. They could be gone when I get home.

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Ethically, you need to let her know right away or checks will start bouncing. Expect her to get **really** angry. Last night was probably just a trifle compared to what she'll pull when she sees you actively taking actions to match your words. She's probably going to accuse you of things you've never even heard of -- just steel yourself for it, recognize that it's mostly anger talking, be careful (take a tape recorder if you need to), and get out as soon as you can.


Yeah, I kind of wanted to run this by SH, but he has not gotten back to me today. I am not sure what to do here. Should I or should'nt I do this today? I have until Friday before it will be noticed that my check did not go into our account. However, I fear that my not telling her this tonight will loose the impact of last night's talk instead of actually driving it home.

I am also unsure if I should add that I feel she should pay for her cell phone (especially since it is in her name only now and she does not want, nor will she answer it when I call it). I also feel she should pay for her own car (which happens to be a Lexus and is $700 per month). I also feel she should pay for her own chiropractic and other medical bills as well as any entertainment such as buying CDs or eating out or whatever.

W has her own checking account that (before this past weekend) had $1900 in it. This would be enough to cover her time period before she found some kind of a job.

What do you guys think about all of this. Am I being way unreasonable, cold and cruel? I am sure it will come across as I am trying my hardest to punish her.

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You called or your expect to take a loss? I'm confused here.


I have not called one yet, but I thought it would be an interesting addition to tonight if I did because I know what they would tell me - that we would loose money in a repressed housing market right now.

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Smart idea. Make sure you have yourself covered with regards to the important things (like custody).


Thanks, but the question is do I mention this tonight. Do I mention the finances, the realestate agent and the lawyer all in one full swoop or do I do one at a time, such as the finances tonight, then the Lawyer in a few days and then the agent?

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She doesn't really have many good options to go to, El. I'm sure she's scared and worried that the rug is being pulled out from under her. Expect her to fight as hard as possible to keep the status quo.


I understand that and this is the reality that was going through my mind when she threw out "finding her own place" to me several times throughout the last 6 months. Now, my reality has been confirmed. My point is that she was just saying this as a manipulation tactic. Learning this makes me wonder just what else is really a lie and a manipulation tactic. Could it be that she actually does have feelings in her heart for me, but tells me otherwise to manipulate me for some reason known only to her?

Quote
Take her concerns about physical abuse seriously and do not allow yourself to be in any situation where you can be falsely accused or tempted into 'borderline behavior' or you'll find yourself out of the house with a restraining order against you. For no other reason, this is a good idea not to push your luck being around her too much.


Yes, I will. I could not believe she would even go there and make this up. I spoke with a lawyer friend today who is getting me a good lawyer to talk with and I mentioned this to him. He advised me to not let myself get into any situation where she could falsely accuse me of something, call the cops and then have a great custody case. Remember, the potential OM is a cop in Phoenix. She could be hatching some kind of half baked idea with him on how to secure S for herself so she could ultimately move to Phoenix......

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Because you hate conflict, you want to work this out like 'reasonable adults' and this just isn't how you ever wanted things to be. You're normal, in other words.

You're doing the best you can right now.


Thanks Mys. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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You're not scheming. You're setting and finally enforcing some realistic boundaries.


Is that what I am doing? Jeesh! Who knew.....

Take Care,

EL

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well as I am old enough to be your Mum, I guess knowing that tells you that you can email me if you want a reply, and I wil get it in the same time zone and come to the board imediately. Disclaimer - If I am on line. Usually am at night until about 2/4am.

I haven't commented before as I think you are already in excellent hands. You were just so alone last night.

I and my husband offer support here if you need it, a phone call sometimes helps late at night when you want to give in and just do ro say what her BS seems to call for. My BS meter is set on high like all those who have been through it, so you can get an instant answer and the board will tell you the same.

Stick with it and know you have MB help right here in town, to do what SH says on spite of your fears and emotional exhaustion.

I can also recommend a Kick #ss lawyer, if that is what you need. He specialises in your two needs, business and family, So let me know. I have an email listed. He is dynamic, instant and incredibly powerful in court.

Linda


Me BSx2 63

1st M 13yrs WS Multiple As.

DD45 DD43 DS41 first marriage.

Him WS 56 P/A. PA + Multiple EAs from day one.

Current M. 26years

D Days 10/02, 11/02, 01/03, right up to 03/06

NC since 03/2006

Me Stage IV Breast Cancer since 36months,

Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us (Hebrews 12:1).Titus wife, Linda
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Hello MyAlias,

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You don't believe it was whining because you see your communications as trying to provide hope for a possible recovery.

She's in withdrawal and thinks any efforts are futile. So she sees your attempts as being desparate, needy, clingy, whiny.

She also thinks you are bluffing now that you've changed your tone. We all know it isn't a bluff so you know what's next: My friend it's time to give her a huge dose of EL GONE DARK.

I guess she thinks I am bluffing because she was bluffing before about her threats to "move out." People tend to blame or see others in their own light based upon their own actions.

My going dark makes me a little uneasy. You see, when I have been upset with her in the past I have gone dark for a day or two and she saw this as my pouting. What is the difference between my going dark and pouting? I guess the point is I should not really care right now, right? I should go dark for me because any further communication on my end most likely would carry hope from my heart and lead to bitter dissapointment.

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If she wants to just be left alone then give her what she wants. I agree with what silverpool said earlier. I'd follow that as much as possible. No more heartfelt communications. No more trying to convince MB is the way. No more discussion about what you once had and could have again. You're done. You no longer want to hold out hope. Any hope of this thing coming around have to be initiated by her. Without saying it you're bouncing her the ball while you go off to play solo on another court (with your S of course).


But this is pretty much what I have been doing, mixed with attempts at discussing things regarding our M. Now, I see it as more of the same, but the discussions will be regarding things I am doing to seperate. You see, I can't see a difference. Its how I feel right now, I guess. Before, I did try to be open and do things with her etc...

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Work towards being self-sufficient. Try to do your own chores - laundry, dishes, cleaning, errands, groceries, etc. You could do some of hers as well so you don't come off looking mean but do it with minimal interaction with her.


Right. I pretty much do this right now, other than laundry. She does not want me doing laundry because our clothes are mixed and she thinks I will mess her clothes up.

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What what's MWIL's motto during his darkest times: Calm, strength, quiet. BE STILL!

Let her rant all she wants. You don't react. You remain calm and walk away. Time to be VERY, VERY DARK.

The question is can you do it?


I don't know if I can do this. It will hurt deeply and I will feel VERY, VERY bad inside, but I could give it a shot.

Take Care,

EL

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(((((EL))))))

Hang in there. THese steps seem to bring all the most painful parts into sharp relieff.

Follow SH's advice, and re-read Myschae's last post if you need to... Good advice in there, too!

Lots of peope here who care about you.

(((((EL)))))


Telly, thanks for being there. It means a lot.

EL

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Yeah, I kind of wanted to run this by SH, but he has not gotten back to me today. I am not sure what to do here. Should I or should'nt I do this today? I have until Friday before it will be noticed that my check did not go into our account. However, I fear that my not telling her this tonight will loose the impact of last night's talk instead of actually driving it home.

I'm not talking about driving anything home, I'm talking from a purely practical sense. I don't know how much cushion you have in your checking account. (Btw, you might want to take half of your savings acct & put it somewhere secure). So, I'm more worried about her unknowingly sending out checks that aren't covered.

Think practically about this.

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am also unsure if I should add that I feel she should pay for her cell phone (especially since it is in her name only now and she does not want, nor will she answer it when I call it). I also feel she should pay for her own car (which happens to be a Lexus and is $700 per month). I also feel she should pay for her own chiropractic and other medical bills as well as any entertainment such as buying CDs or eating out or whatever.

Don't pay the cell phone. Pay the lexus if you're on the loan (no sense trashing your credit). I don't know how medical bills work -- are they in your name because of insurance?

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W has her own checking account that (before this past weekend) had $1900 in it. This would be enough to cover her time period before she found some kind of a job.

Good enough

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What do you guys think about all of this. Am I being way unreasonable, cold and cruel? I am sure it will come across as I am trying my hardest to punish her.

I'm sure it will. I think you should pay for things you're enthusiastic about paying for or things that you are obligated to pay (if you're on the loan, for example). Her entertainment & cell phone don't apply.

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I have not called one yet, but I thought it would be an interesting addition to tonight if I did because I know what they would tell me - that we would loose money in a repressed housing market right now.

Call only if you're serious about selling the house. Otherwise, you're just being manipulative and trying to get a rise out of her. If she's worried about the housing market, let her do the work.

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Thanks, but the question is do I mention this tonight. Do I mention the finances, the realestate agent and the lawyer all in one full swoop or do I do one at a time, such as the finances tonight, then the Lawyer in a few days and then the agent?

Mention them only when you have your ducks in a row and you've made decisions. The financial thing is important because she has no reason to expect her checks will not be covered. The lawyer & real estate can wait until you figure out what's going on.

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I understand that and this is the reality that was going through my mind when she threw out "finding her own place" to me several times throughout the last 6 months. Now, my reality has been confirmed. My point is that she was just saying this as a manipulation tactic. Learning this makes me wonder just what else is really a lie and a manipulation tactic. Could it be that she actually does have feelings in her heart for me, but tells me otherwise to manipulate me for some reason known only to her?

Just don't even go here. Seriously.

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Yes, I will. I could not believe she would even go there and make this up. I spoke with a lawyer friend today who is getting me a good lawyer to talk with and I mentioned this to him. He advised me to not let myself get into any situation where she could falsely accuse me of something, call the cops and then have a great custody case. Remember, the potential OM is a cop in Phoenix. She could be hatching some kind of half baked idea with him on how to secure S for herself so she could ultimately move to Phoenix......

Yes, protect yourself. This may not even be some 'half baked idea' -- never, ever underestimate desperate people. She might become desperate to protect her fantasy that this is all your fault and none of her responsibility. Making you out to be a physically abusive husband in her own mind is great justification for all that's going on in her life. Just don't discard her POV and the danger it could pose to you. She'll probably accuse you of child abuse/neglect over the finance thing. Be prepared for it.

Protect yourself. Do it ethically and legally without punishment or anger. Then, no matter what happens, you can look back and be right with yourself.

Mys

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Hello SMOMW,

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Please take notice about something RIGHT NOW.....I lived your HE11 for almost 5 years....and as I approached where you are right now I had occasional "melt downs"....when my wife suddenly pulled out the "I'm scared of you" routine I should have known better. She went into court with her lawyer and told the judge that I was "not stable, threatened her, threatened to take children"....so..instead of just getting served divorce papers I was given a TRO where she was granted temp custody until I went to court....and then it was on....but......

you need to protect yourself and your family.....and be careful and COGNIZANT of her PERCEIVED danger...of course she is scared....


Thank you for your input. I read a lot of your support for other posters. I am excited you are offering your experience to me. Thank you.

I have lived in ****** for basically +5 years and I did not think it could get worse until this past April when it did. WW said to me last night, "I started to pull away from you physically when I began to see who you really were. Couldn't you see that?" She seems to forget the fact that for three years of SF declining, she would tell me, "it is not you. It is me and I do not know what is wrong with me. I wish I did so I could fix it." Only about a year ago did she tell me that she was just telling me what she thought I wanted to hear back then because she felt I would just argue with her "like I always do." Now what kills me is that she is so upset with me because she claims she has told me so many times in our past that I was hurting her and that I would not listen. This is crazy. We are actually in trouble because I did listen to my W!

Yes, I will keep an eye out for any situation that could get me into trouble regarding her percieved danger.

Thanks for your thoughts.

EL

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Hello Silverpool,

It is very kind of you to offer friendship, especially to someone in a horrible situation. It can drain you as well. I can tell you are a very giving person.

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well as I am old enough to be your Mum, I guess knowing that tells you that you can email me if you want a reply, and I wil get it in the same time zone and come to the board imediately. Disclaimer - If I am on line. Usually am at night until about 2/4am.


Thank you for such a kind offer.

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I haven't commented before as I think you are already in excellent hands. You were just so alone last night.


Please do comment. I feel alone all the time right now.

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I and my husband offer support here if you need it, a phone call sometimes helps late at night when you want to give in and just do ro say what her BS seems to call for. My BS meter is set on high like all those who have been through it, so you can get an instant answer and the board will tell you the same.


Thanks. Sometime you need a different person's BS meter because mine is not callibrated at times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Stick with it and know you have MB help right here in town, to do what SH says on spite of your fears and emotional exhaustion.


Truely comforting. Thank you.

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I can also recommend a Kick #ss lawyer, if that is what you need. He specialises in your two needs, business and family, So let me know. I have an email listed. He is dynamic, instant and incredibly powerful in court.


I'll keep it in mind. Thanks.

Best Wishes,

EL

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My going dark makes me a little uneasy. You see, when I have been upset with her in the past I have gone dark for a day or two and she saw this as my pouting. What is the difference between my going dark and pouting? I guess the point is I should not really care right now, right? I should go dark for me because any further communication on my end most likely would carry hope from my heart and lead to bitter dissapointment.


EL,

Going dark isn't pouting. Going dark is remaining happy and enthusiastic about those things that make you such (your son, your friends, your family, your job, etc). Do those things, interact with those people with joy, happiness and vigor.

Be dark only with your W. Not pouting but distant, disconnected. Show her you are needing to be apart from her because being intertwined with her on a daily basis is much too painful. When necessary communicate with her be courteous (not pouty or angry) but keep your answers short (yes, no, maybe, I'll get back to you, I don't know, etc.). No long drawn out conversations no matter what. Anything similar to that and you'll appear you're willing to continue taking the hurtful behaviors she provides. You may need to start communicating important details through your lawyer. I know that could get expensive but no more than the D that may occur should this R end.

I think you may need to put a call out to the more experienced people who've done the dark thing. I'm not qualified to give you great examples based on your current in-the-same-home conditions.

Good luck tonight. Sorry I won't be around should you need more assistance. I will be back tomorrow.


Me: 57 Her: 54
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Extremely,

I couldn't even read most of your posts because it seems you still want to win your argument with your WW. You can't, don't try.

My advice is Plan B. Do not communicate about anything other than your child, and in that case the bare minimum will suffice. Do not tell her about anything you are doing(lawyer, finances, living arrangements) but DO NOT hide the process you are going through. Telling your WW "I am going to a lawyer" is seen as an empty threat. Her finding out that you have sought legal advice, now that is ACTION. I told me WW that if she wanted to talk about us, it would take an NC letter and a promise to stop lying. If she wanted to talk finances, please have her lawyer call my lawyer. AND THEN SHUT YOUR MOUTH. SILENCE IS THE MOST DEAFENING CONCEPT TO A WS.

No "I love you's". No "Let's Make a Deal". No " I want to do what is best for you(WW). Show her you have a future and it might not include her.


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
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Hello Mys,

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I'm not talking about driving anything home, I'm talking from a purely practical sense. I don't know how much cushion you have in your checking account. (Btw, you might want to take half of your savings acct & put it somewhere secure). So, I'm more worried about her unknowingly sending out checks that aren't covered.

Think practically about this.


You are right. She will not right any bills out until the weekend, so there really is no worry about a bounced check.

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Don't pay the cell phone. Pay the lexus if you're on the loan (no sense trashing your credit). I don't know how medical bills work -- are they in your name because of insurance?


Paying for her car is setting a dangerous precedent. Don't you think? I don't drive such an expensive car. This was a real treat and sacrafice we made for her three years ago when we bought it.

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Good enough


What do you mean good enough?

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I'm sure it will. I think you should pay for things you're enthusiastic about paying for or things that you are obligated to pay (if you're on the loan, for example). Her entertainment & cell phone don't apply.


Well, I am really not enthusiastic about paying anything for her at the moment. This is a woman that sells Arrbone and Tastefully Simple and gets the "house" to use these products. Then she charges the house full price and makes a profit for her private checking account off the house. WTF????? I have caught her on this and she became embarrassed over it, or it would still be going on!

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Call only if you're serious about selling the house. Otherwise, you're just being manipulative and trying to get a rise out of her. If she's worried about the housing market, let her do the work.

Selling the house is always an option. I would rather sell the house than me be told through a legal seperation hearing that I need to move out of the house. SH and I agree that if I left the house then WW would have all she wants and me missing which would not help her see reality at this point.

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Mention them only when you have your ducks in a row and you've made decisions. The financial thing is important because she has no reason to expect her checks will not be covered. The lawyer & real estate can wait until you figure out what's going on.


You are VERY good Mys. I just got off the phone with SH. His quick advice was to gather legal information and do nothing until I have gathered this info. He told me to hold off the finance discussion until I had this legal info. He also told me to not go very, very dark. He wants me to be above board and gaurded. I am unhappy that it will seem like I will be complacent in status quo for a few days. SH says that this is actually not the case as you are gathering information for a seperation and are not being a doormat. He also told me that if the opportunity presents itsefl, I should try and throw in the idea that "it is rediculous to believe that your being in love with the father of your child would be a bad thing." I can't believe he wants me to continue conversation with her. I totally feel like I am being asked to go against the MB direct route through all of this.

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Yes, protect yourself. This may not even be some 'half baked idea' -- never, ever underestimate desperate people. She might become desperate to protect her fantasy that this is all your fault and none of her responsibility. Making you out to be a physically abusive husband in her own mind is great justification for all that's going on in her life. Just don't discard her POV and the danger it could pose to you. She'll probably accuse you of child abuse/neglect over the finance thing. Be prepared for it.

Protect yourself. Do it ethically and legally without punishment or anger. Then, no matter what happens, you can look back and be right with yourself.


SH agrees with this. He was not suprised by her comments. SH also commented on how she will be getting tons of advice right now and that she probably was on the phone ALL day.

On a brighter note, while I was speaking with SH, S called me to talk to me real quick. I guess they did not take off. This past weekend he and I worked on him remembering my cell phone so he can call me whenever he wants. He loves to call me now and feels like quite the big boy.

Thanks,

EL

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You are right. She will not right any bills out until the weekend, so there really is no worry about a bounced check.

Ah, ok.

I wouldn't tell her anything till you have secured what you want to secure (ie. savings)


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Paying for her car is setting a dangerous precedent. Don't you think? I don't drive such an expensive car. This was a real treat and sacrafice we made for her three years ago when we bought it.

I don't know. What's your backup plan if she doesn't pay it? Are you ok if it gets repossessed? Do you know if you can sell it? (Is there an AND on the title or an OR?) Or, if she refuses to pay it and it affects your credit are you going to be OK with that?

I'm not worried about precidents or her feelings or entitlement -- I'm worried about practical, real world, consequences if she decides not to pay and how you can protect yourself (if such things are important to you).

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What do you mean good enough?

I mean: "Good so she has some resources to make her not totally financially dependent on you at this time. She's not exactly "flush" but at least she has some cushion to realistically pay some of these bills."

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Well, I am really not enthusiastic about paying anything for her at the moment. This is a woman that sells Arrbone and Tastefully Simple and gets the "house" to use these products. Then she charges the house full price and makes a profit for her private checking account off the house. WTF????? I have caught her on this and she became embarrassed over it, or it would still be going on!

Charges the house? I have no idea what you're talking about.

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Selling the house is always an option. I would rather sell the house than me be told through a legal seperation hearing that I need to move out of the house. SH and I agree that if I left the house then WW would have all she wants and me missing which would not help her see reality at this point.

True but regardless you can't sell without her consent if she's on the deed -- unless it's forced by the court (say, during a divorce). The chances are, if she's allowed to keep the house without you in it, the only way you can force her out of it is if you actually get the divorce and then she either has to pay you for your half or they will force the sale of the house.

You can't list the house or sell the house without her permission at the moment. (Check your legal advisor on this but I'm pretty sure.)

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You are VERY good Mys. I just got off the phone with SH. His quick advice was to gather legal information and do nothing until I have gathered this info. He told me to hold off the finance discussion until I had this legal info. He also told me to not go very, very dark. He wants me to be above board and gaurded. I am unhappy that it will seem like I will be complacent in status quo for a few days. SH says that this is actually not the case as you are gathering information for a seperation and are not being a doormat. He also told me that if the opportunity presents itsefl, I should try and throw in the idea that "it is rediculous to believe that your being in love with the father of your child would be a bad thing." I can't believe he wants me to continue conversation with her. I totally feel like I am being asked to go against the MB direct route through all of this.

Nah. MB is about opportunities.

You've told her your plans. You don't have to blitzkrieg her. It's not going to make a difference if you do it in 2 days, 10 days or 2 weeks. If you are waiting months and months then there's a problem. You can slow down, take your time, and act with calculated deliberation. You're no longer acting on her whims -- you're following the beat of your own drum. You don't have to be rushed on her account. She'll still be there when you're ready.

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SH agrees with this. He was not suprised by her comments. SH also commented on how she will be getting tons of advice right now and that she probably was on the phone ALL day.

I'm sure she is getting lots of advice.

Listen. I'm serious about the financial thing. Don't tell her till you've moved what you need to move to safe keeping. Don't take MORE than you're entitled to -- but don't leave that stuff laying around either.

In other words, guard your savings accounts, etc. Put stuff where she can't get at it.

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On a brighter note, while I was speaking with SH, S called me to talk to me real quick. I guess they did not take off. This past weekend he and I worked on him remembering my cell phone so he can call me whenever he wants. He loves to call me now and feels like quite the big boy.

She likely won't leave until she figures out a better option. I've no doubt she's probably had offers to stay with either her parents, family or even the OM's family.

Be Careful you do NOT want her to take your son out of state.

Mys

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