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H appears to be in the angry stage. It's right on time.

The last thing you want to do is trap him in this phase with demands, or even just your observations, about how he should be healing.


with prayers,


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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Thank you for answering my questions, Becca.

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Because he's told me this.




He told you that when you two have SF that he doesn't feel anything in his heart for you?

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We had a conversation about the time we were separated the first time, he was dating someone and he had to break up with her so we can get back together. He never told me this before but he told me that it was HARD for him to do that (break up with her) and that they even cried together when he broke it off with her. I told him "wow, you must have been in love with her" and he said he doesn't remember. So I said "you never even cried during the birth of your children or for me" his answer was "I don't remember"..... this conversation made me realize of course he is the way he is towards me, we were so freaking young when we got married, we were in HEAT not in love! His heart has never been in this marriage. I do not even KNOW his heart.






I thought I read where you said your BS cried and cried when you were in your A....

How can you say he NEVER cried over you? Or that his heart was NEVER in your marriage?

How could you possibly KNOW this, Becca?

Have you ever been able to climb into his mind? His heart?

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Yes, I DO believe God can make something beautiful out of all this crap I created, but he doesn't.




But, Becca, if YOU believe God can restore your M, why do you get upset what your BH believes?

God can restore your M through YOU...

If God restores your marriage, what difference does it make what your BH believed about it?

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Because his version of "staying for the kids" is unhealthy. He wants to do nothing about the issues (related to the A not even about the M) and how can that be healthy? if resentment, anger and frustration is not dealt with, is that going to become LOVE at some point???




I don't think it's unhealthy to stay in the M b/c of the kids.

Becca, why don't you first deal w/ YOUR feelings of anger, resentment, and frustration?

Tear down those walls...and you will see things differently.

Do your half, Becca...

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He said he is doing this just to keep OM away




I thought you said he was doing it for the kids?

Again, his reasons don't matter...he is choosing to stay...why not choose to believe that he does love you? Wants you?

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All I can do is assume and wonder.... he won't share his TRUE feelings or heart.... he told me he has NO feelings..... I find that hard to believe!




You can accept that you just don't know. Rather than assume things. Assuming is disrespectful.

He may just feel numb, b/c he's been hurt so badly.

Give him time.

Don't keep asking him about his feelings..share yours w/ him.

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It matters to me because this is how his family handles issues "sweep" them under the rug and they will disappear.... he is GREAT at that but his anger comes out in other ways.....




Forget about his family.

Focus on his actions....when he crosses your boundaries call him on it. Otherwise, don't assume your marriage will end up like his parent's marriage.

You are 100% responsible for your half of the M...


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He is closed off to anything I do or say....




Is this REALLY true?

Is ANYTHING the word you want to use here?

You said you two are still loving. When you take his hand he holds yours back.

When you initiate things he WILL participate and ENJOY it.

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my actions to him are not sincere or truthful.... he has hard time trusting people and now I have given him a reason.




Becca, if you are acting in truth and sincerity, why isn't THAT enough for you?

Why can't you just give him TIME to believe in you again?

It sounds as though you keep pushing him...pushing him to hurry up and deal w/ his pain in the way YOU think is most helpful to him.

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He had no respect for my opinion BEFORE the A.... now I am might as well be painted on the wall....




Do YOU respect HIS opinions? B/c I'm not seeing it from your posts here.

Change what you are ABLE to change.

Respect his choice to hold his feelings inside himself. Quit trying to force him to do something he does NOT want to do.

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Yes, he told me he is doing this out of his sense of responsibility.... not because he wants to.




I do alot of things out of a sense of responsibility....b/c I WANT to be responsible. It makes me feel good. It makes me happy.

Now, even IF (and that's a big if) his ONLY joy in your marriage is his fullfillment in meeting his responsibilties, it doesn't mean he can't find other joys in the future. He found them in the past.

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No he didn't force me, and I thought I was doing the right thing.... I thought it was my job to do those things....




That's right, YOU chose to do them.

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I guess I expected appreciation




That's right. You expected something in return for doing what you did.

When those expectations didn't get met, you turned them into RESENTMENTS. I know how this works, b/c I did the same thing.

How is THAT fair?

Did you ask your BH that if you do X, then would he do Y?

Anything short of that is disrespectful.

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I see now that God does not want a passive husband and that it is HIS responsibility to do those things as well.




God wants us to BE HOLY as He is holy.

How's THAT coming along for you?

None of us are perfect. You are not the PERFECT wife that God intends for you to be either.

You are in your BH's stuff, Becca.

You don't belong there.

Stay w/ YOUR stuff.

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Because he isn't managing the pain in any way...




Really?

Is he huddled in a corner eating his own hair?

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I don't know.... he won't share, when I bring it up, all I get from him is "I don't know...."




You don't have to know.

You don't have to understand his choices.

HE doesn't have to be able to articulate what he's feeling.

Accept his choices. Obviously you would make DIFFERENT choices if you were him, but Becca, you AREN'T him.

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He is very hard to love. I don't feel a connection to him, there is no intimacy, I really do not know who he is..... he is a stranger to me.




It is IMPOSSIBLE to love someone when you are JUDGING them.
Accept him and his choices and you will feel differently towards him.

I promise you will.

Knock down those walls of judgment you put up, and you will be able to connect w/ him again.

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Because again, if we ignore this, it is NOT going to make it go away.... he wishes that was the case.




Becca, how do you KNOW this?

His mind is still funtioning. He's still thinking...he's still processing things. It's impossible for him not to be.

He doesn't want to share his feelings.

Respect his choice.

Share yours w/ him.

Own your feelings, though.

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No of course not, but to him knowledge is power and if he were to share himself with me, he would be giving me power.....




Ok, good to know.

He doesn't feel safe w/ you yet.

Be patient.

Be loving.

Be accepting.

Inside and out.

Be those things to yourself and to him.

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Yes, there are many reasons why.... and as hard as it may sound, one of them was just to know if he even care. Another reason was that my heart was empty and instead of seeking God to fill it, I seeked another man. I was lonely, depressed and needed to feel loved. All selfish reasons, but those are my reasons.




Now see Becca, that paragraph is rich w/ things to delve into and understand.

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and as hard as it may sound, one of them was just to know if he even care.




You had the A b/c you wanted to find out if your WH cared?

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Another reason was that my heart was empty and instead of seeking God to fill it, , I seeked another man.




So, if your heart was filled w/ God, you wouldn't need your BH to fill it?

If that is true true, then why aren't you seeking for God instead of trying to change your BH's actions?

I'd be willing to bet your choice to have the A is very similar to my choice and other WS choices...

You had expectations that were not met. And over time you turned them into resentments. And then began to feel entitled to have your expecations fullfilled, and there by gave yourself permission to go outside your marriage.

Want to change your marriage for the better?

Stop judging yourself and your BH.

Learn to accept yourself and your BH.

Understand where resentments come from. And learn how to stop them dead in their tracts.

Live in the PRESENT.

Enjoy right now.

Make choices that will build up your M, not tear it down.

Accept your limitations.

Own your stuff.

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I was lonely, depressed and needed to feel loved. All selfish reasons, but those are my reasons.




It isn't selfish to want to feel loved. Feelings aren't bad or good.

You felt lonely and depressed. You wanted someone to make you feel better...make you feel loved.

I understand that need.

Becca, there is a way you can learn to meet your own needs. You don't have to go through another person to do it. When your BH "failed" to make you feel loved, you looked for someone else to do it.

Now that you turned from OM you are right back where you were before...looking to your BH to make you feel better about yourself.

And I'm telling you that you need to learn how to make yourself feel better w/in yourself.

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I do understand the whys now.... which is why our situation right now makes me wonder what on earth I am doing here.




Only you can decide why you are in your M.

You say you want a Godly marriage.

Well, you can start being 1/2 of that equation.

Be who God wants you to be.

Don't focus on the work He's doing in your BH's life.

Quote:

Yes. that is absoutely correct. He thinks if he goes to counseling or read the books, he is going to be blamed for some things and he doesn't want that.




Then HEAR him.

Respect his choices.

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No, I will get out of here before I allow that to happen. I've learned that without the connection, closseness and intimacy with him, I might as well leave because that is not the kind of marriage that can succeed.




Becca, You don't only have two choices here. Either stack up resentments or get out of your marriage.

You DO have other choices.

You can learn to stop building resentments against your BH.

When you learn how to do that you can make the connections and have the intimacy w/ him that you crave.

Quote:

I am extremly frustrated, emotionally exhausted, and thirsty for companionship.




I know you are. ((((Becca)))

Frustration comes from not fullfilling your own expectations. Resenting yourself. Ouch! You are beating yourself up. It is no wonder that you are exhausted and thirsty to find a fix to your situation.

Start examining your beliefs about yourself.

I bet you have many negative beliefs about yourself.

Stop all DJs. To yourself and to others.

What you do to others you will do to yourself. And vice versa.

Don't call yourself selfish, stupid, mean, empty, ect...

Don't think or say any disrespectful judgments against your BH either.

If you will choose to respect yourself and others, your world will change.

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His view of women is that we are not capable of much other than trouble. We are not efficient, or as intelligent as men are, we are not as driven or as capable as men are. His views are so distorted.




Good to know.

But, I was hoping you could talk to me about his ACTIONS that you find disrespectful, not his thoughts.

I don't judge thoughts, feelings, or intentions...only actions.

I don't want anyone trying to poke around inside my head, so I don't try to poke around in other people's heads.

I want to be respectful.

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I am an obstacle to him. If I wasn't in his life, he would have so much more money and "toys"....




Is this something he said to you?

If so what did you reply to him?

Quote:

I committed adultery, the only time when God allows for divorce. He is very well aware of that and he is willing to give m a D if I am the one to file.




And what Biblical grounds do YOU have for filing?

Quote:

I don't know how else to change my thinking. Is it wrong for me to want him to heal so he can figure out if we can R or not?




It isn't respectful to want/demand he take YOUR path to recovery and healing.

~ Marsh

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Marsh, I don't always agree with you... but your posts always leave a lot to think about.

Happy Birthday.

MEDC

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Quote:

MEDC, come on! The best thing these two can do for their daughter, (and the BH is the only father this girl has ever known correct?) is to repair their marriage. Their daughter will be better served by being raised by both her parents in a loving and happy home than by anything else. That means that taking care of the marriage is the #1 priority for the well being of the daughter.




he has changed his mind and now he is "not sure" what he wants.... so what the heck do I do?? Do I keep waiting? in the meantime he throws things like "if we divorce, she is 100% YOUR responsibility" what is that suppose to mean?

Of course a happy, loving home is what is best for the children, ALL THREE, but it requires work and time and he is not willing to do anything to make that happen, or I should say he doesn't KNOW if that's what he wants. When does a BS know they want to work on their M? do they just wake up one day and realize that's what they want? He is very concerned about what our lifestyle would be if we were to D, how that would affect the girls, he says at least right now we BOTH live under the same roof. Again, aren't these signs that he just wants to settle for a marriage of convenience? something to take us through the next 10 or 15 yrs?

I have a hard time understanding him and the fact that he doesn't share his thoughts or feelings make it that much more difficult, add his passive agressive personality and most of the time I wonder who the heck he is? I would rather have him explode, yell and scream than this deadly silence.

It is very easy for people here to say "just sit there and keep taking it" but they forget that I am also human and most days I am at the end of my rope with all this. Yes, those days divorce seems like the best way to end this. I come here for advice and all you people can say is "you are being selfish, you need to give him time, you need to understand him" you know, I don't need to be told WHAT I ALRAEDY know.... if I was PERFECT I wouldn't be in this freaking place in the first place! THose are the same things I get from HIM! no matter what I say or do, his answer to everything is "well, you are the one who had the affair" and that's all of you are doing. I came here originally looking for help and trying to figure out what I did wrong and how to fix it, I have stayed away many times from posting because all I get are judgemental opinions. Everyone seems to act as if they are perfect and I should just shut up and take it. Well, I can't take it anymore. I am spent. I came back trying to get information to give to him to show him that NO you CANNOT stay in a marriage JUST for the sake of the kids and instead once again you people crucify me. Thanks so much. Christ died on the cross for me, you don't need to do it to me over and over again.

MEDC, thank you for understanding my concerns about my daughter. I am a big girl and I do realize that saving my M is what is best, but I can't do it alone and I can't even begin to fix anything until BH is ready. No I am not going to contact OM just because BH cannot make his mind neither am I going to use OC to get him to make up his mind. That is not what I came here for if people can go back and read that original post.


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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Becca - I understand your frustration. If you meet his EN's I belive given time the situation will change. He is punishing you at the moment - meet his needs and I bet he will crack.

I have not read this whole thread - we are away from home at the moment. I have been wondering how you are.

All the best. Hang in there. You can do this....


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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He is staying in the M, regardless of what "excuses" he's given you! He still loves you. Think of what you've said, "He is only staying M'd to me so I don't go back to OM." He still wants you, otherwise he would have D'd you long ago and let OM have you. I say to do a plan A, fulfill as many ENs as you can. Who cares if you think he's a bucket with holes, you don't have to fill it with water to fill it. Use stones that are bigger than the holes. Get what I'm saying.

This is what I am saying here. I was not attacking you, but giving it to you like I see it. I did it in such a harsh way because you ARE thinking about yourself here. There are many things you could have done to "find the evidence" of just staying in a M for the children. I'm not the first one to tell you to work on meeting his EN either. Your H honestly doesn't know WHAT he wants right now. And yes, I'm going to say again, GIVE HIM TIME.

I'm sorry if that makes you feel attacked, but it is meant to help and to open your eyes to things you aren't seeing. Mostly the bold print above from my previous post. You are pushing him to make a decision that he's not ready to make at this time. At least you are still in the same home. Do little things to make him feel warm and fuzzy again. It will soon break that deadly silence.


Tigger
me~BS & WS~38~~h~BS & WS~37 my d-days~7/92, 1/96, 7/00, 9/07
h's d-days~7/11/00 & 2 weeks later 3 COM, 1 OC(mine)
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McB... first of all you are welcome.

Second... I do not want you to use your child... I just want him to stop doing it.

And last...I would say this might be a good plan of action..meet his needs for right now. But make sure that you are engaging him in conversation that requires his input. If he was not like this before, I would be saying the same things as the others here. But the FACT is, he was. So, just sitting back is letting your life become more unraveled. You are a long way from having to make any decisions about divorce. There are lots of things that need to happen before that... and counsleing is a must. Let him know that it needs to happen for the good of your family. Let him know that while you love him and want to remained married to him AND WILL NEVER CHEAT AGAIN that you are unhappy with the state of the marriage and that you need help.
If he has a trusted friend that you are also friends with the wife, I would seek out their help. It does not appear as though his family is going to be of any help so you need to find your allies where you can.
But please ... DO NOT TOLERATE him ever again using your daughter as a tool here. That requires a response in my book.
Keep posting your thoughts here. Recognize that many on MB think there is but one way to do things. Everyone here means well and is trying to help. Some people do well at reaching some and not others. There have been a very few FWS here that I have felt moved to understand and want to help... you are one of them.
For now... slow down, breathe and develop YOUR plan. Run it by us if you choose... if you don't like someones response, try and remember they are trying to help... even if they are not helpful to you right then.
You are a good person and mother... let's try and figure this out with the help of the professionals that you are involving in your life.

MEDC

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PLEASE read back the words you posted above and try to realize how distorted your thinking is right now!

Quote:

there is a child involve who could very well end up without a father




YOU LEFT YOUR MARRIAGE AND YOU TOOK YOUR OTHER TWO CHILDREN AWAY FROM THIER FATHER

have you forgotten them?

YOU WERE WILLING TO DESTROY HIS LIFE AND UPROOT THE LIVES OF THESE TWO CHILDREN

YOUR CONCERN SHOULD NOT BE ONLY FOR THE OMC!!

Quote:

we have a child to worry about




YOU SEE YOU DID IT AGAIN

YOU SAID WE (you and OM) HAVE A CHILD (A=ONE) TO WORRY ABOUT

no! you have 3 children

and a D will leave ALL 3 of your children without a family....at least not a family that is together

.............

Becca

i love my h very much. i have done everything you could think of to show him that i want to save our marraige and he is STILL having an A

i will continue to do anything.....well that's not entirely true

i WOULD NOT be able to take my husband back if he had a child with the OW

i just couldn't find it in my heart to ever forgive that much

your husband HAS

and i would think that THIS is even harder for a spouse than even finding out about the affair

he is in SO much pain....but he is doing the BEST he can to do what is best for you and even for YOUR child

your thinking is still very much the thinking of a wayward spouse

you are finding nothing but unhappiness in your marraige AGAIN, you are finding nothing GOOD in your husband AGAIN, you have no RESPECT for HIS NEEDS

so you WITHDREW from him and you are again

this kind of thinking IS what led to your affair

consider this

now your H is UNHAPPY in the marriage, he is finding nothing GOOD about you or what you did to him, and he has lost RESPECT for YOU

he has withdrawn from you

what would you have needed when you were at this point in order for you to STOP yourself from having the A

if your husband had plan A'd you....maybe your feelings would have changed and the awful things that followed could have been avoided

but he didn't KNOW how you were feelings because you didn't tell him before you choose to have an A

you know how he is feeling!!

you can PLAN A HIM and give him time to deal with the pain in his own way and in his own time.....if you meet his needs, you will create deposits in his love bank and he will be more willing to meet your needs

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McBecca - I just wanted to offer support. I totally know how you feel when you say your H won't even discuss, heal or work with you towards a better M. It's so upsetting to endure a bad M prior to an A, weather the storm of an A and then to go right back to the same bad M after the A and the storm subsides. From my perspective, you can be the lighthouse until the cows come home, but if he doesn't do his part it's not going to matter. It will only prolong you being unfulfilled in a M and you overcompensating for his lack of efforts. My situation has drug out for 2 years. I am now starting to realize that it has been two painful years that didn't need to happen if I would have just gone with my gut instinct and left.

Hang in there, you will find your answers and be at peace. I fully understand how upsetting it is from the standpoint of being a mother and wanting so desperately just to be happy and do right by them. I'm struggling with that very issue right now. An H that loves his kids dearly, but doesn't treat their mother right OR live up to his potential as a father. Just wanted to offer my support. I sense that you're struggling quite a bit. Keep your chin up.

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Quote:

I see both of your points.... Mulan and Todd... but I disagree.
First off, I was very clear that there would be NO contact with the OM. Please read my post again.
As far as the rest of it goes, the child deserves a father and if her H does not want the job or threatens to walk away from HIS daughter, then IMO it is time to involve the bio dad in the childs life. That you do not agree is okay... I am equally amazed at your positions as I DO NOT see marriage as being the most important role of a parent. I am just aghast that he would say the child would be without HIM ever again. That shows me that he either doesn't love the child or is using the child as a threat against McB. Neither of those things are acceptable in my book.
And Todd, it is not threatening HIM... it is responding as a responsible parent to his threat to harm his daughter. I could not disagree with your perspective any more strongly... but support your right to voice your opinion. I won't tell you to be careful giving YOUR advice... not because it has any more merit than mine... but because McB is a big girl that can come to her own conclusions.
Just so I am clear, my number one priority is to give advice that I feel is in the childs best interest.... the marriage is secondary to me. I do think McB needs to give her H some room... but that does not mean to tolerate threats that he will leave his daughter. Because any father that can threaten to leave his child is not really a parent to that child in my eyes.

Todd, I haven't seen you around in a while... I hope you are well.

MEDC





Quote:

I see both of your points.... Mulan and Todd... but I disagree.
First off, I was very clear that there would be NO contact with the OM. Please read my post again.
As far as the rest of it goes, the child deserves a father and if her H does not want the job or threatens to walk away from HIS daughter, then IMO it is time to involve the bio dad in the childs life. That you do not agree is okay... I am equally amazed at your positions as I DO NOT see marriage as being the most important role of a parent. I am just aghast that he would say the child would be without HIM ever again. That shows me that he either doesn't love the child or is using the child as a threat against McB. Neither of those things are acceptable in my book.
And Todd, it is not threatening HIM... it is responding as a responsible parent to his threat to harm his daughter. I could not disagree with your perspective any more strongly... but support your right to voice your opinion. I won't tell you to be careful giving YOUR advice... not because it has any more merit than mine... but because McB is a big girl that can come to her own conclusions.
Just so I am clear, my number one priority is to give advice that I feel is in the childs best interest.... the marriage is secondary to me. I do think McB needs to give her H some room... but that does not mean to tolerate threats that he will leave his daughter. Because any father that can threaten to leave his child is not really a parent to that child in my eyes.

Todd, I haven't seen you around in a while... I hope you are well.

MEDC





MEDC:

This is what you said in the earlier post...
"If you ever make a comment like that about OUR daughetr again, I will find an intermediary and contact her bio dad so that he can begin visitation with the child."

"IF YOU do X, THEN I WILL do Y."

This is 100% a threat. Yes, a threat.

You say it is not because it is in response to another threat. This is just flawed logic. If a burglar grabs one of my children and threatens to harm them, I may just tell him I will hunt him down like a dog until there is no breath left in me. I just threatened him. It may be reasonable for me to threaten him like this, but it is still a threat.

I pulled this definition for threat off the net...
"A threat is also an explicit or implicit message from a person to another that the first will cause something bad to happen to the other, often except when certain demands are met."

You advise McB to give her H and explicit message that she will cause him harm (taking away the child) except when her demand that he be a father is met.


"I am not going to be threatened with having OUR child grow up without a father and if you say it again, I will take that step to protect MY child's future."

This would be seriously disrespectful! Especially the part about "MY" child. Wow! And by the way...this is yet another threat!

In your post you also say: "IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT CHILD HAS A FATHER FOREVER!!!"
I agree with this word added before FATHER ==> the word is GOOD. This is important because your post assumes that the bio dad/OM will be that good father. That is unknown. As an adoptive parent, I am quite aware of the fact that bio parent does not necessarily mean good parent. I believe this distinction invalidates your entire argument. We do not disagree that this child (and the other two) need a good father. I do, however, strongly disagree in your assumption that the bio dad is the best choice...especially given all the other problems that that particular man brings to the table as the OM. I do not suggest that the bio dad does not have rights - he does 100% and may exercise them at his discretion. However, to suggest McB make the decision to involve him as a threat to her H is ludicrous.

Imagine for a moment that McB took your suggestion and made that threat. Her H responds negatively. She carries out the threat and contacts OM/bio dad only to find he is really not interested in being a father after all. Where does that leave the child? Where does that leave McB? Where does that leave their other two children? Danger, danger, danger! Her H may not choose to step up and be a good father, but McB should not even be tempted to contact OM by taking your advice.

BTW - I do not defend McB's H here. He clearly has said things that should never be said about his children.

Todd


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Quote:

"I am not going to be threatened with having OUR child grow up without a father and if you say it again, I will take that step to protect MY child's future."

This would be seriously disrespectful! Especially the part about "MY" child. Wow! And by the way...this is yet another threat!




Todd, once again I will say that I think you are dead wrong. I am not tr=ying to get your agreement...only to offer what I feel is the best advice for the poster. But in response to the above... the "our" changes to "my" in response to HIS actions... not hers. As I said earlier... I see your point, I just do not agree... and I really won't. I have been following her sitch for months and have a firm concept of what should be done... IMO. You have yours to which you are entitled. I will agree to disagree.

I make no assumption about the bio dad... just like I don't about bio moms. I give the benefit of the doubt to parents until such a time as they no longer deserve it. that is why I have full custody of my child and my ex has supervised visitation.

Again, I will agree that we disagree and will continue to post what I feel is the best advice to this thread.
I hope you are well.

MEDC

edited to add...

Quote:

"IF YOU do X, THEN I WILL do Y."

This is 100% a threat. Yes, a threat.




This I find way off base. IF YOU do something to hurt my child... I will do what I need to do to protect my child. A response to a threat is not always a threat. I would state this as a matter of fact.

Again, I see your point... I just do not see it your way.

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MEDC:

Feel free to disagree with me. However, recognize that what you advocate goes against MB principles. As such, it is the wrong advice here IMO. I hope McB listens to other viewpoints and I also hope she ignores your advice. I do agree with you -- to disagree, that is.

Todd


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Quote:

Marsh, I don't always agree with you... but your posts always leave a lot to think about.

Happy Birthday.

MEDC




Thank you, MEDC.

I agree w/ you more often than I disagree w/ you.

~ Marsh

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Becca,

You posted this thread w/ expectations.

You didn't get those met.

I understand your disappointment.

But, would you please consider that you were given something BETTER than what you expected?

Come back tomorrow and re-read the posts here.

You saw judgment from others, but I saw people reaching out to you. Trying to give you a NEW way to see things.

I didn't see anyone tell you to "just sit there and keep taking it."

Quote:

they forget that I am also human and most days I am at the end of my rope with all this.




Really? Do you really think anyone forgot you were human?

Do you really believe anyone couldn't read your frustration in your posts?

Quote:

all I get are judgemental opinions. Everyone seems to act as if they are perfect and I should just shut up and take it.




I didn't see anyone on here "acting as though they were perfect". Or acting as though you should shut up and take it.

Quote:

I came back trying to get information to give to him to show him that NO you CANNOT stay in a marriage JUST for the sake of the kids and instead once again you people crucify me.




You are trying to prove his opinion wrong. Why?

What you really want is for him to tell you he loves you, wants you, and wants your marriage, correct?

And all we're saying is to look at his actions....they are telling you that he DOES love you and want you.

If you will choose to believe that, you won't need to hear those words, b/c you'll KNOW/BELIEVE that he does love you.

Your choice.

Quote:

instead once again you people crucify me.




Re-read the posts again, Becca.

No one wants to pile more guilt on top of you...or hurt you.

I see love and concern for you.

Becca,

If your BH told you he wants to stay in the marriage, would you push him to read marriage books and go to MC?

B/c I think he might be telling you he doesn't know what he wants and/or is staying ONLY for the kids as a way to keep you from pressuring him to "work" on the marriage.

You can choose to believe he loves you, or you can choose to believe he doesn't.

Your choice.

~ Marsh

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Great posts Todd and eav!

~ Marsh

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McBecca

you asked about children and divorce

i believe there are chapters in every "save your marraige" book that talks about the harm done to children by divorce.

here's a chapter from my life that they could have include in any of those books


I came from a very broken family.....

my earliest memory of my "family being together"

my parents fighting all of the time....bad fights....

my father smashing all of the car windows with a log during one...... being thown out and locked out during another....and knocking, pleading and begging all night long to please let them him home

things like that and worse

was that good for me, my sisters and brothers?

of course not

what was worse?

my mother, and all of us girls seeing my father's car parked and my brother bike parked in the driveway of the married woman that we were soon to discover was having an A with my father.....had been for years....since BEFORE the fighting started

my sister's and brother's earlier memories are of my parents during happier times before the A ruined our lives

i don't have any of those memories

my father left us......6 children to be raised by a stay at home mom with no job skills

he moved on to his new life....he moved in with his married girlfriend and helped to raise her 3 children

sure, we got to visit dad.....and this new family of his

and we felt like we were "visiters"...like they were his children and we were kids he cared about

they got to spend birthdays, christmas and easter mornings with him

we got to visit

but on holidays, my father would usually come through with his child support for a change so we were okay (he "ment well but he was already taking care of a family"....so he said)

they got new clothes, new furniture, a new car

we got to live off welfare

but we were okay....hey we got food from the food bank and clothes from the salvation army

they got braces.....we had medical assistance

they got lunch AND ice cream money.....we got to use the lunch passes that said "free" nice and large for everyone to see.....at least until you wise up and just stop eating so no-one knows you can't pay for lunch

they had both parents....and their mom could stay at home because my dad was supporting her family

we got....a mom who was so depressed from the A and then the D that she barely got out of bed.....so i was raised by my older sisters for years....many years

my father was the man i idolized before he left....i was waiting at the door when he came home every evening...i was the one who curled up on the couch to sit beside him when he watched tv

he left when i was 6......i had a breakdown and ended up in therapy for years

i spent the rest of my life trying to please my dad.....to get his attention

but he had a baby with the OW soon after he left.....and she took my place in his life

my sisters.....well they were tired of taking care of our house and raising us kids......

as soon as they were old enough, they tried to find a guy to get them away from all of this

all 3 of my older sisters ended up pregnant, unmarried, and living off welfare

but it was okay.......they got away from the h*ll they were living in didn't they?

one of them.....she will never get married...she hates men...not because of anything that was done to her.....but because the first man who was supposed to show her love, kindess, and care.....

well he instead showed her that men can't be trusted, they will hurt you, and they will not take care of you

me......well.....the man who i tried so had to get love and attention from......he taught me through his actions that it's not worth it to try to please someone and to try earn thier love.......it's either there or it isn't

and that it's your spouses job to make you HAPPY, to take care of you! to do whatever they need to do to keep you there

because that's what he said my mother DIDN'T do.....and that's his reasons for his A and the D

he taught the values that i took into my marriage....you see, i was smart....i found this really great guy who didn't believe in divorce....his whole family was against it

so i KNEW an A and D would never ruin my life again

i found a guy who believed marraige was forever and you did whatever it took to keep your spouse happy and at home

i didn't even bother to put any effort into earing my H's love too long past the I DO's

why bother.....

but i still tried to please the man who had deserted me long ago....i would show him what a hard worker i am and how i wasn't going to end up like my sisters

so i worked hard....long into the nights

hey my dad was finally proud of me!

but my H? well...he gave and gave and gave....and got lonelier and lonelier

and guess what.....HISTORY REPEATED ITSELF

and my life is now destoyed again

and in case your wondering if there was a happy ending?

my mother never really came out of her depression or had a happy life after my father's A

she never remarried and still loves him to this day

my father never did marry the OW.....they both got divorced but then......nothing

they stayed together for awhile because of the child they had together

then they went thier separate ways

my father tried again to find love

with another married woman

she went back to her husband after 6 months

he sunk into such a depression and said he finally understood how my mother felt

his last years of his life were spent alone and so filled with regret.........

and he told all of us....his biggest regret

was that he never tried to save his marriage

that he never "did right" by his kids

that he "never should have left your mother"

because all of our lives would have turned out so very different

are we the average family who lives through an A and a D.....maybe not

some are worse and some are better i'm sure

but i can tell you that before the A and the D.......my parents and my older sisters all have memories of an "average family" that still had a chance to have a better life than the ones we all ended up with

so from my experience

i believe that it is better for children to be raised in a home with two parents who are providing for the care and welfare of each other as well as ALL of the children

AND

i believe that spouses owe it to themselves and thier children to put everything they can into making this happen

as much as it takes.....for as long as it takes

FOR your children

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My goodness, eav...

Your post brought tears to my eyes.

I wish that my ex could understand what he has done, and continues to do, to his children.

{{{eav}}}

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thank you Olanya

i've actually been considering deleting it ever since in posted.

i don't know if it will help at all but i really feel strongly about the reality of a D on the whole family.

i would hate to see McB make a mistake that might end up changing the lives of all of the people she cares so much about

and not for the better

and then living to regret it

i really think it's too soon for her to stop trying

for everyone's sake

i just wanted to find a way to help her to see the perspective of someone who has lived through this

many lives are destoyed from a D

and the children get hurt the worst

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Please do not consider deleting that post, eav. It's probably one of the most moving things I've ever read here. Thank you for taking the time to write it and post it.
Mulan


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eav,

I could not have described the pain of divorce and the loss of a father nearly as well as you have. I second the story with my own. Similar in many ways.

McBecca, I haven't posted to you, at least as far as I can remember. I think we can all agree that the frustration you describe is palpable, and I feel tension when I read your posts, real tension. The best advice you have gotten is to love your children, ALL of them, and to GIVE. Put the taker away. Things may not be sunshine and lollipops, for now, but they are stable for the children. This can give you time to focus on your M. Give love.

I'm in the very early stages of recovery. I am a BS, who is back in Plan A. I have to hear that my H felt like he was cheating on his OW by coming back to me. I've heard him talking about how worried he is for losing HER love. It's horrific, the things that a BS endures. Please consider what your H does, not what he says. Actually, consider not talking about your R AT ALL for a while. I think it causes you great pain to HEAR that your H isn't THERE YET.

Time, time, time. It's a game of endurance, a marathon. You can do this, we know you can. I'm so sorry about the pain that you must suffer now, but things will get better, if YOU get in the race, stop worrying about whose running along with you. Have fun with you kids, include their DAD. Kiss him, touch him, because YOU WANT TO; don't think about what he's THINKING, just do...

Good luck to you, McBecca (you do deserve to be happy; we all do)


Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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