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Thanks mark... I got you message on the other thread too..... I do know that God can deliver i do.... but man i thought i was having some downer days last week... well those were downer days, but man i just feel like i want to be out on the prowl! I mean come on!!! What is wrong with that?!??! I just convinced my H to get a new motorcycle so we could do some riding and he has been getting really nice gear and i am so excited... we are leaving to go on vacation next week! Things are great! What the heck do i want to prowl around for?!?!? I know there isnt anything as good as i got!!! Argh..... i just am so frustrated!!!!


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I know LIC,

That infernal conflict within!

Drive me crazy too. Normally when things are going well relationship wise, I can talk myself out of giving in to any urges to make contact or anything, I have the strength to do it. But, when storm winds blow at home, it makes it sooooo much harder.

My mind knows what's right...and I'm committed to doing that. But why is it so hard??

I understand. Mark is right, we need to ask for strength. Sometimes I forget to do that...sad, but true...

you can email me if you'd like, it's on my profile...


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it just seems that my mind is racing a million different directions... i try to stop, breath, and focus but the focus goes to the wrong thing.... kinda like in the old days that y shaped tool that was supposed to help you find the water spring.... you hold on to it and it is supposed to lead you to the water..... well mine wants to lead me anywhere but the water.... maybe my y tool is leading me to the patron well!!!!


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Mark.... I hope all is going well in your court.... mine.... im surviving... but struggling.... I never got a response from you.... did i leave you speechless?

LIC


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LIC,

When have I ever been speechless?

I've just been busy while at work, not even here at times, and have tried to stay away from here at night when I am home with the family. If I stay up late enough, I might come here after my W goes to bed.

The search for self worth from others is a drive that cannot be satisfied. Once that road is started down, it requires the stimulus over and over again in order to feed the need. Find your fulfilment within yourself and in the value that you know God has placed upon you. Christ died for you. How significant is that?

The desire for feeling desired or sought after can be strong. It is a need that must be fulfilled by only your husband. That is the boundary that must not be crossed to avoid adultery. That is the one that got crossed before. You cannot protect your LB$ from having deposits made, so you must not allow yourself to be in a position that will let other men make large deposits. The bank is always open, so only your H can be a customer that can make those deposits.

When you can identify what it is that other men can give you, what it is that they do that makes you feel loved or have a greater sense of self worth, then you can attempt to teach your H to meet this need in the same way. The alternative is to allow other men to meet this need and repeat the cycle of betrayal all over once more.

Or you can take a hard look at what your H already does for you and see that he does love you and is showing you his love, but maybe not in the way you wish him to. Since it is more difficult to accept LB$ deposits in a currency that to us has no relevancy, this can cause resentment to build up and you will go into withdrawal and no longer accept his deposits. Again, the cycle repeats itself.

When was the last time you guys revisited the ENQ? Keep in mind that ENs can change over time. In fact, right after Dday, any BS might consider O&H as their top need, but, especially men, might within weeks revert back to SF or RC.

Have you two read FIL/SIL? It explains the basic concepts in detail and then after explaining the ENs and introducing the ENQ has both of you stop reading, fill out the ENQ and then there is a form for you to fill out and both sign promising to actually meet the ENs you just identified.

I'm finding that there needs to be a balance between discussing the relationship, working within the MB framework and actually doing the things that are talked about here. The stronger effort must be put into the doing for it all to come together. Dr Harley's stated goal is for each couple to not only have a committed relationship, but one that is one of love for each other and passion as well, long after the honeymoon. That must become our goal as well.

The answer isn't on this web site or in any of the books. It was there all along, but we chose to not accept it. The answer is to actually do the things that Dr Harley says work to restore the passion that has gone AWOL and claim it as our own once more. Meeting ENs will never be accomplished by talking about them. A couple will never fall in love all over again by discussing what went wrong, only by doing it right from that point forward. (OK, I'm also talking to myself and a few lurkers here as well as to you)

Oy! I think I'm starting to sound like LA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mark

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Mark... you said it all and i even now before you wrote it all that i knew it all.... *sigh* but it doesnt make it any easier.... that is what is so hard to deal with.... i mean overall... things are great... we are both doing great and spending a lot of quality time together etc etc etc..... but then this little fire starts inside of me... and the little voice starts talking inside..... i say no no no no and the little yes yes yes... and it goes back and forth for a few days.... now im here feeling like im trying to get lost!!!! EEK!! Cant I just step on his head and stop him from picking on me!?!?! Gosh darn!!!!


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LIC,

You need to have a plan for when those feelings come up. That plan cannot be to merely grit your teeth and resist the urge. As you've stated, you and your H are doing well. What happens when things are not going well and the urge to run comes along?

When those feelings come, you must to have a way to fall back to a safe position. This might be a close friend who you can call or it can be your H. It just can never be a close male friend, under any circumstances. I'd even rule out a pastor as this person, though maybe his wife could be the one if she were willing to take on the assignment.

But you have to know what to do before it happens because when you are in the midst of all the emotions at the time, you will not be thinking correctly. The time to decide what to do is when all is well, not in the middle of a storm.

When you feel like running, commit to running to your H.

Mark

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LIC,

Haven't heard anything from you all day. Just wondering how you are doing...

Mark

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Hi Mark! im doing okay.... I had a rough night and H was pretty upset with me.... we talked it out this morning and things are better... but i still need to figure out a plan to get me out of these slumps when they come around.... because i know this isnt going to be the last one!... Thank you for asking... i really appreciate it!
LIC


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Hi Mark!
Just wanted to bump the thread and let you know I am back.... though not very good.... the ring came off yesterday and I think we are going to be moving forward with a seperation.... both of us are tired and I cant pretend anymore.


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LIC,

That is the saddest news I have heard in a while...

I take it vacation didn't go well.

I wish I had something to say to make it better for both of you. I hate to see anyone give up, but I know it happens all the time.

I'm so sorry...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Mark

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Mark,
I never thought in a million years that this is what my life would be..... I try to sit and wonder what went wrong and how to try to fix it and have been trying chance after chance yearning for my heart to feel something..... but still i feel nothing...

below is an email i sent to a friend yesterday morning still arguing and trying to convince myself otherwise..... I have also realized that I do not have any respect or love for myself due to the choice I made and that I have resorted to inappropriate vices to help numb the pain when i feel it gets to hard.... this is not right and I know that I must change myself because no one else can change me but me.

Dear "friend"
oh boy.... vacation.... the weather and water were beautiful and a perfect place for me to argue with God in some sense..... my heart has been heavy as you know and really it didnt come back any lighter..... on the flight home we watched a movie called " the painted veil" twice.... and it really made me think..... the plot summary was:

The Painted Veil is a love story set in the 1920s that tells the story of a young English couple, Walter (Edward Norton), a middle class doctor and Kitty (Naomi Watts), an upper-class woman, who get married for the wrong reasons and relocate to Shanghai, where she falls in love with someone else. When he uncovers her infidelity, in an act of vengeance, he accepts a job in a remote village in China ravaged by a deadly epidemic, and takes her along. Their journey brings meaning to their relationship and gives them purpose in one of the most remote and beautiful places on earth.

Or there is this one too.....

Kitty Fane (Watts) is a frivolous young English woman who longs for romance and excitement, trapped in a loveless marriage to a staid Shanghai researcher. When her husband (Norton) learns she has had an affair, he volunteers to fight a cholera epidemic in China's war-torn interior. Dr. Fane forces his wife to accompany him on the difficult and hazardous journey, endangering her life in the process...

basically it really hit me!

but the interesting thing in the movie was that the husband at least did show interest or initiation... and in the middle of the epedemic they both started helping orphans and such which made them see things differently... kinda not so much about them but the big picture.... so i guess i need to move to shanghai and help with some epedemic! I told my friend that and she said that I may not need to go to that extreme..... but whatever floats my boat.... Who knows anymore..... As i sat and thought this weekend I realized that part of the problem is i want a confident man yet with some sensitivity.

we went to mexico with another couple and as the other wife and I were laying on the beach she turns to me and says.... you know im kinda tired of trying to help you without you fixing anything..... it was a bit of a stab..... like man if you only knew all that i have been trying to do!

Then yesterday Greg and I were just trying to relax and he decideds to apologize to me for expressing that he dislikes when i hang out with my single friends.... i got so upset.... he will do anything to make me happy...but by doing so... he has no backbone! I felt like almost walking out!!! I told him once again not to change his feeling to try to make me happy to stick to his guns but as long as i am happy he doesnt care!!!! it is so hard..... because there is my human side and then the side that wants to stay on God's good side....i know that God's love is bigger than anything...... but then i think am i giving up too soon... do i just need a little more faith? but then i think about the whole backbone thing and i get so frustrated! i am too strong, independant and confident i think to be in a relationship! i was sitting and thinking yesterday.... if my decision is fleshy self versus staying on God's side...but if I stay with Greg will I stay on God's side by staying faithful to him and being happy with him? If I stay with him is it for myself or everyone else? i just wish that i was confident enough to make a decision.... with out dealing with the fear of the unknown..... that is what scares me!!! Then there is the thinking of if I make a decision that doesn't make me happy am I really "living"? No matter what either way is hard...If I stay with him, I need to find a way to be happy and for both of us to have our needs met. If I leave then I am going to have to deal with the struggle of being alone and starting a new life. the funny or sad thing is the first one scares me more than the second!! Honestly, I sometimes feel I have already left him. My heart hasn't been there in a long time, I havent been happy for a long time and that cheats both of us as well as God. Then i ponder how long am I willing to wait on a miracle? i think 7 years is about as much as i got in me for a miracle

you know the funny thing is... my sister just moved to auburn too..... maybe God new before i did..... go figure!!!! or is it the devil at work giving my more opportunities to screw things up!

so... I think that is pretty much everything I have been thinking....... Thank you for emailing me and keeping me on track! I full heartedly appreciate every inch of the love support and encouragement you have given!


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LIC,

I know you've been working at this for a long time now, but how long have you been doing the right things?

Has H read HN/HN, or better still FIL/SIL?

Has he been actually trying to meet your ENs?

Could your meds maybe need another tuneup?

Just searching here....

In the movies it always seems to work out. The handsome leading man (strong but silent) carries the sexy leading lady (usually against her wishes) off into the sunset and they live happily ever after.

But only after they figure out that they were meant to be together, acknowledge their love, which cannot be resisted or denied and fall into each others arms as the scene fades to darkness.

But this is real life and Errol and Kate are dead...

I propose a sequel.

The scene opens with three kids running through the kitchen. She is on the phone with him as he says he's working late...again. She says the phone company called and wants their money. He says the car had a flat and he had to pay to get it fixed. The kids return and the bowl that contained the meatloaf she was preparing crashes to the floor. Her BFF arrives and listens a while and then says, "I don't know what you ever saw in him."

Now that sounds like real life to me.

The next scene opens with the two of them in bed. Before turning out the lights they take each others hands into their own and begin to pray. "Thank you Lord for getting us through today. For all that we have, our kids, our home and each other, we give You thanks." The scene fades to black and as the picture vanishes she says, "Turn out the light, will ya?" and he says, "Yes, Dear" and sighs.

It ain't perfect, but I'm still workin' on it.


Let's see if we have anything in common...

Married too young?
Feel like we married for the wrong reasons to begin with?
Thought everything would work out on its own?
Got tired of trying to change our spouse?
Got tired of making changes to ourselves that seemed to go totally unnoticed?
Settled into a marriage of "to much trouble to try to fix it and I don't want to be seen as a failure?"

Anything you want to add to MY list?

While you were away in the sunny climate of Mexico, hanging out on that miserable beach, W and I attended a conference in Indianapolis based on "The Song of Songs" aka the Song of Solomon. (www.tommynelsononline.com)

We learned a lot.
We had a good time.
We still have issues.
But we're not done yet.

Mark

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LIC,

Egads, I've been where you are so many times I have lost count...

Being ahead of you a few years, I can tell you this...

You can't let movies make decisions for you. You can find "a message" in just about every movie out there, but movies can't and shouldn't tell you how to live your life. The media is responsible for a lot of the reason women today "think" they're unhappy. Real life doesn't work that way.

And of course, I agree with everything Mark the wise said...

None of us can predict the future. There is just no way to tell whether someday you will find the happiness you seek with your DH or not...

My honest opinion though is that a lot of the issues you are dealing with are things that you need to work on with yourself and have little to do with your H (I know, I've been there and still am on occasion...) and they will be there regardless of whether you are married to your DH or not.

What I have learned (from wise people here, like LA and Pep)...when in such doubt, don't make an irrevocable decision.

I'll let you in on a secret too...7 years into my M, I would've bet the farm that we wouldn't make it to our 18th anniversary, yet next month, here we are...

So, I'm pretty happy now, but not just because my DH changed, he did...but because I have grown and changed too.


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LostInChrist - are you up for some blunt talking?

If you are a believer, then start acting like one.

If not, do whatever YOU want to do.


Quote
Then there is the thinking of if I make a decision that doesn't make me happy am I really "living"? No matter what either way is hard...If I stay with him, I need to find a way to be happy and for both of us to have our needs met.


"Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to the disciples, "Sit here while I go and pray over there." And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and He begain to be sorrowful and and deeply distressed. Then He said to them, "My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay her and watch with Me."

He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will."

Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, "What! Could you not watch with Me one hour? Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." (Matthew 26:36-40 NKJV)


"Nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will."

"Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation."

"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."


L.I.C., which of these is you?


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I try to sit and wonder what went wrong and how to try to fix it and have been trying chance after chance yearning for my heart to feel something..... but still i feel nothing...


YOU "feel nothing?!?"

Why don't you spend some time reading Matthew 26:36-56 and Mark 14:32-50? Meditate a little about what Jesus felt and what HIS response to God was.

"Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that is must happen thus?" (Matt.26:53-54 NKJV)

What part of God's promises to believers do you reject?
What part of Jesus' sacrifice for YOU do you reject?

"I know that I must change myself because no one else can change me but me."

You are wrong, L.I.C., you HAVE BEEN changed by God and all you need to do is to be OBEDIENT to His commands and teaching.

Why won't you?

Fear?

You fear God?

You fear that recovery and walking with God might take some WORK on your part?

You fear whether or not God can be trusted?


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Then yesterday Greg and I were just trying to relax and he decideds to apologize to me for expressing that he dislikes when i hang out with my single friends.... i got so upset.... he will do anything to make me happy...but by doing so... he has no backbone!


Greg has no "backbone?" You've never been a BETRAYED SPOUSE, have you? You have no idea of the BACKBONE needed to even attempt recovery, let alone the humble submission to God in order to be able to forgive as Christ has forgiven our own sins, do you?


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am too strong, independant and confident i think to be in a relationship!


No you are not any of those things. You are a sinner. You are a "do it yourselfer" who tries to do things without God.

L.I.C., WHO bought and paid for you with HIS life?

Who stands ready to take you back as his wife, because he was also "bought and paid for" by someone who willingly submitted His will to the Father's will while He was hated and despised by the very people He was accepting death to redeem?

This whining and moaning is NOT worthy of His sacrifice.

We are talking ETERNITY here and you are moaning about ..."oh gee, what if I actually do follow God in obedience and my life doesn't turn out to be a fairytale?"

L.I.C., I am going to leave you with one TRUTH. God is faithful to all of His promises.

That includes the "triangle of marriage" promise. If you don't know what that is, that is part of your problem and you need to ask about it. If you do know what it means, then why don't you believe and trust in God?

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Mark, MAZ, and FH
Thank you all for your responses. I respect each one of your opinions and appreciate the honesty.

As for the movie and what I took from it... I took that until the characters were completely broken and shattered then that is when things could start to be repaired.... and....That having expectations for/of someone that werent there even to begin with is not right.

as far as me fearing God... this I do
as far as me trusting God... this I do

God has just changed my focus.... He has changed it from bohoo my life is horrible to how can I become that offering that He wants me to become? I have put my focus back on Christ as my number one and have realized that no one other than He can fill my needs....

Humans are sinners... thus they will let you down... God is working something amazing in me that only He knows what will come of it... but what I can say is... that for once I finally have a peace that passes understanding and it is really nice to have surrendered my burden over to my maker.

LIC


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LIC...

I get what you're saying about the movie, that's not so bad a lesson.

As for this quote of yours...

Quote
God has just changed my focus.... He has changed it from bohoo my life is horrible to how can I become that offering that He wants me to become? I have put my focus back on Christ as my number one and have realized that no one other than He can fill my needs....

Humans are sinners... thus they will let you down... God is working something amazing in me that only He knows what will come of it... but what I can say is... that for once I finally have a peace that passes understanding and it is really nice to have surrendered my burden over to my maker.

I think you should print this out and stick it on your computer, your fridge, wherever. These are the kinds of insights that easily get pushed aside and forgotten when our selfish side wants to come out and take over. I'm working on the same thing, sista!

Maybe print out the posts that really speak to you and keep them somewhere and everytime you feel like you may be slipping, go back and read them again. I find a lot of peace in doing that.

You are wonderful and strong.

You can do this.


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oh thank you so much!!! And that is exactly what I am doing!!
Love,
LIC


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LIC,

I've been missing in action most of the day but wanted to check in and see how the rest of your day has gone.

Have you taken a look at the website I gave you? I have no idea where you live, but if there is going to be one of the conferences near you, see if the two of you can go.

They also have a video series, but I have to tell you, being there together makes a lot of difference.

The speaker at our weekend was a pastor from Texas who was one of the most amazing speakers I have ever heard. We sat through a total of six hours of listening to him and I could have listened for six more. His delivery was such that he'd be relating a story that had everyone laughing. People actually fell to the floor from their seats laughing a few times. Then he'd get to his point and there would be dead silence within about a second.

There were about a thousand people there and yet he seemed to be able to pick specific people out of the audience, relate to them by name, which he remembered in later sessions, even over night, and I'm sure that at times everyone there felt he was talking directly to them.

And just as a reminder, if you haven't read it yet today...Jer 29:11...

Praying for you (both of you)...

Mark

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Mark,
I did check the website and it doesnt seem that this specific seminar will be coming to our area... but my husband and I have been to one put on my Family Life Today... which seems to be about the same type of conference.

The rest of my day yesterday was fantastic! up to this point i did not understand what Peace that passes understanding ment... but now i do! So many times I have been or felt that I could go no longer but the Lord still kept me going and allowed me to stick on the same course.

This last summer I spent a weekend with my Mom and Godmother in tears just wanting to give up (one of many many many times) and as these two women that are near and dear to my heart and very strong prayer warriors were uplifting me and my burden I remember my Godmother telling me.... you are not done until God releases you..... my response at that time was how will i know?!? She said... You will know.... God brought that back to me yesterday along with this peace that I have not felt for years!

I will look up Jer 29.... and please do not feel discouraged for me.... I have not made any permanant decision.... what I have done is changed the focus to what it should have been all along.... God.... He is my refuge and my strength... He is the one to hold me and nourish me.... He is the one that I am to be an offering to.... How and what I need to do in order to continue to have Christ as my main focus daily will be taken step by step, day by day..... But I honestly, and truly am doing GREAT!!!

LIC


Formerly Lost in the World.... but really by Gods grace.... He has found me once again!!!!
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