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LIC,

Keep checking back since they don't always have things posted a long time in advance.

FLT has some great stuff including email devotionals and romantic hints and tips. Another good source for help in healing is newlife.com. They have individual seminars including Healing Is a Choice and other great stuff.

See if their radio show is on in your area (New Life Live). A year ago I managed my lunch hour to correspond with the broadcast and just listening helped a lot.

Focus On the Family also has resources on infidelity and marriage as well as their sister site troublewith.com. They can also give specific recommendations for counseling in your area.

Have you heard the story of the man pushing the rock in the path? If not, I can relate it to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mark

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LIC,

While you have your Bible out,check out Psalm 5:11 & 12 and Psalm 102:12. Also see Joshua 1:5 and Isaiah 57:15.

Mark

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Mark.... Will check out the verses and I would love to hear the story about the man pushing to rock.
LIC


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LIC,

A man walks along a path with Jesus. As they come to a place where the trail narrows, they encounter a large boulder, too big to climb over and with no room to go around it.

Jesus tells the man to push the rock.

For several minutes the man tries with all of his might to move the rock. He turns his back to it and pushes harder, using his legs. He even attempts to move it with the use of a tree branch that he finds nearby.

At last, he collapses to the ground, exhausted from his labor and sobs, "I can't do it, Lord!"

Jesus looks at the rock and says, "Be gone!" The rock vanishes as Jesus helps the man to his feet.

Still panting for breath the man asks, "Lord, why did you let me work so hard at moving the rock when you could move it with just a word?"

Jesus responded, " I never told you to move it, only to push it. You needed to know that you could not move it. Besides, you are now stronger than you were before you tried."

Push until He tells you to stop, and then simply let Him move the stone! (He's really good at that!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mark

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LIC,

OK. The weekends is over...

How was the weekend? What's new? How are you doing?


Mark

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Mark,
Thank you for checking up on me... I have been trying not to post on other threads due to the circumstances and path my situation has taken... I know that others check this thread too and I pray that I am not a discouragement or an example for anyone else as to how they should proceed. My focus continues to be Christ and I am filled with this joy inside that can almost not be contained! It is difficult though because I still have compassion for my H and choose to not display this in front of him for fear of adding more pain to his plate. After many discussions this weekend it looks as if roommates will not be working out well and that I will be having to hunt for a place of my own... but I am okay! Actually I am great! For when God is for you.. who can be against you! I know that He will supply all my needs and that I do not have to worry about anything.....

so to answer your question.... God works in mysterious ways but I am doing very well.

LIC


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LIC,

Let me know when you want to talk. I'll be around.


Mark

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Mark,
I hope you realize that I did not mean at all to say that I do not want to talk... I so appreciate your input and wisdom. I just know that this is a "Marriage Builder" site and that my path has changed from that. Please do not take offense to what I said.
LIC


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LIC,

I'm not offended in any way, but as you said, this site is Marriage Builders... and my opinion of marriage can be found in Genesis 2:22-24.

I have no desire to lecture you.

I don't wish to discourage you.

I am way beyond attempting to talk you out of it.

I am only guessing that nothing I say will change your mind, since you seem to be totally at peace with your decision.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

I'll still be here if you ever have questions or need encouragement.


Mark

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LIC,

I am saddened for you and proud of you at the same time. Only God knows your heart....thank you for revealing your thoughts and feelings with Mark and all of us.

I'm sad for the pain you and your H are enduring. But I'm proud of you for finding what you feel is a God-given peace in your situation.

We're all here to support you and each other so please keep posting on this thread.

Ace

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{{{ACE}}}
I think you are my God sent angel in the flesh!!!! I just continue to feel God's love through you and others and feel so blessed!

Praying for you and many more.... and still snooping around <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
LIC


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LIC,

Well, I'm going to ask...

Not because I don't respect you make your decisions...

For clarity...for all of us. Clear choices are the best ones...not living from feelings, directly from our beliefs.

Why are you choosing this?

LA

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LA,
I was wondering when this question was going to come up..... Simply put.... my reasoning for making this dicision is because for years I have been struggling with the same issues using different approaches to help fix or make the probelm more doable.... Though glimpses of change occured, with every attemp for improvment as things slipped back into the routine of "normal life" for my H... the efforts on one end did not cause enough momentum to make a lifestyle change. after numerous prayers, years of searching Gods will... He has given me peace about leaving... which is something that under all the other situations did not happen. Thus, this chapter is closing and the new chapter is about God and me....
lic


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LIC,

Like I asked before, you may have been working on the M for a long time, but how long have you been doing the right things?

There are two ways to gain momentum. One way is to be hit by something going at a high rate of speed. Your momentum does change when that happens.

Another way is to simply begin moving in the right direction and gradually accelerate as time goes on. Continuing in the right direction never implies a time when we can coast, so continued effort must be maintained.

Since marriage isn't a destination but a journey, I think that the real issue becomes maintaining continuous movement in the right direction rather than momentum that carries us along. But it must be remembered that movement alone is not a sign of progress and that is what attempting to build momentum ends up leading us to. We feel like we have given enough energy that we can begin to coast and by so doing, we lose the momentum we have built up.

Also remember that lack of resistance along the way is not an indication of going in the proper direction. We can be totally lost and be making great time along the way.

Living near Chicago gives one a perspective on this concept. We only have two seasons here; winter and road construction. Every spring the orange traffic cones bloom along the roadways and soon the state shrub is in bloom also (the orange and white barricade) Our state tree is the stop-light standard and our state mineral seems to be asphalt. I think our state motto is "Be prepared...

to stop."

Between my home and places I must visit frequently there are many possible routes to be taken. Some of them save a mile or two. Some save a minute or even five, but no single route exists that takes away even 5% of the trip either in distance or in travel time.

Often, the most direct path is the one that takes the longest and is usually the best route. I have spent many hours in traffic either going to or coming from a customer or vendor location. Last summer, I made a trip to a customer in the south part of the city that at three AM would likely take less than 40 minutes. Due to construction, traffic accidents and a lack of common sense on the part of many drivers, the trip took 4 hours!

At one point, 4 of us got out in the middle of the highway and played several hands of euchre on the hood of my pickup. We got back into our vehicles and only moved about a hundred yards before stopping again.

But I had to get there, so I just stayed with it and made it there and back, though it did take all day. (The return only took two and a half hours)

So, I was going the right way and to the right place, but didn't seem to be making very good time. I even considered getting off the highway and turning around, but on the occasions that I have done this, I have found that traffic on the secondary roads is no better on those days than the main highways.

God does not promise a life without difficulty. He does not tell us that our way will be either simple or easy. Sometimes, He lets us make a decision, based on our own feelings that is counter to what He desires for us. Though our way may become easier by these decisions, it isn't an indication that His will is what we are following.

Can He use a wrong decision by us to further His purposes? You bet He can! He can also honor us for our perseverance and "stick-to-it" attitude when we continue doing the right thing in the face of difficulty. For by doing this, we bring honor to Him.

I have no doubt that God desires for you to focus on Him. My only question would be whether He wishes for you to do so within marriage or outside of it.

Just my nickel's worth. (2 cents doesn't buy what it once did)

Mark

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LIC,

Thank you for responding.

I didn't hear anything different than in your previous post, though. Which concerns me. What I hear is that you spent a lot of time and effort on trying to fix what wasn't broken...and what wasn't in your control.

When you first came here, you committed to working on yourself because that greatly benefits the marriage...by half.

What I remember is that you were going to learn solid boundaries and boundary enforcements...that you were going to not choose to do or say anything which would create resentment...and you were going to listen and repeat...see your H as separate and equal to you.

What I heard in your previous posts was that something happened on vacation, you came home, H was upset with you, then you chose to take off your rings and that you both are tired and you don't want to pretend anymore.

Then in this post (that I'm quoting), I hear you are choosing to end your marriage based on feelings, is that correct?

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Mark,
I never thought in a million years that this is what my life would be..... I try to sit and wonder what went wrong and how to try to fix it and have been trying chance after chance yearning for my heart to feel something..... but still i feel nothing... [color:"red"] Your beliefs didn't change, did they? Your perspective? Your perceptions? Why would your feelings? [/color]

below is an email i sent to a friend yesterday morning still arguing and trying to convince myself otherwise..... I have also realized that I do not have any respect or love for myself due to the choice I made [color:"red"] I don't believe your lack of respect or self-love is a result of your choice...I believe your lack came first, then your previous choice [/color] and that I have resorted to inappropriate vices to help numb the pain when i feel it gets to hard.... this is not right and I know that I must change myself because no one else can change me but me. [color:"red"]I have heard you say this more than a few times. I haven't seen you live it. When you look at your BH and say "I get so frustrated because he has no backbone!" then I say, flip it over, LIC...where's yours? You won't change your own thoughts, where they dwell; your actions...to act and resent...to feel injury and not speak, not state, not share...no more lip service to this I must change myself...when you don't even KNOW who you are right now, IMO. You are dwelling in your BH's stuff, not your own. [/color]

Dear "friend"
oh boy.... vacation.... the weather and water were beautiful and a perfect place for me to argue with God in some sense..... my heart has been heavy as you know and really it didnt come back any lighter [color:"red"] I read on 4/27 you were doing well...spending time...talking about the motorcycle, getting to do hobbies together...making that effort...and then vacation...and now it's 5/15...and I'm hearing this is your heavy heart...and I'm confused. Why would your heart come back lighter if you didn't know why it was heavy in the first place? [/color] ..... on the flight home we watched a movie called " the painted veil" twice.... and it really made me think..... the plot summary was:

The Painted Veil is a love story set in the 1920s that tells the story of a young English couple, Walter (Edward Norton), a middle class doctor and Kitty (Naomi Watts), an upper-class woman, who get married for the wrong reasons and relocate to Shanghai, where she falls in love with someone else. When he uncovers her infidelity, in an act of vengeance, he accepts a job in a remote village in China ravaged by a deadly epidemic, and takes her along. Their journey brings meaning to their relationship and gives them purpose in one of the most remote and beautiful places on earth.

Or there is this one too.....

Kitty Fane (Watts) is a frivolous young English woman who longs for romance and excitement, trapped in a loveless marriage to a staid Shanghai researcher. When her husband (Norton) learns she has had an affair, he volunteers to fight a cholera epidemic in China's war-torn interior. Dr. Fane forces his wife to accompany him on the difficult and hazardous journey, endangering her life in the process...

basically it really hit me!

but the interesting thing in the movie was that the husband at least did show interest or initiation... [color:"red"] I hear a huge DJ in here...am I reaching or is it there? [/color] and in the middle of the epedemic they both started helping orphans and such which made them see things differently... kinda not so much about them but the big picture....

As i sat and thought this weekend I realized that part of the problem is i want a confident man yet with some sensitivity. [color:"red"]LIC, what did your BH think of the movie? What are his thoughts, his feelings, his beliefs? Did he agree with the doctor...that adultery deserves death? Or that healing comes from working, living, partnering side by side, without judging, defining, compartmentalizing and discounting your partner? Are you really saying here is that your BH isn't right for you? Or are you doing the projection which can help you greatly? You want to be a confident woman in your own righteousness, radically honest, deeply intimate and totally respectful with your BH?[/color]

Then yesterday Greg and I were just trying to relax and he decideds to apologize to me for expressing that he dislikes when i hang out with my single friends.... i got so upset.... he will do anything to make me happy...but by doing so... he has no backbone! [color:"red"]A BS has no backbone? No one else has MORE backbone, IMO[/color]

I felt like almost walking out!!! I told him once again not to change his feeling to try to make me happy to stick to his guns but as long as i am happy he doesnt care!!!! [color:"red"]So you were telling him instead of listening? Do you know what he meant, why he wanted to say it, or did you assume? Do you want to get to the issues or do you want things to stay in assumption land? He may not know what's underneath his urge to believe he can make you happy...his issue may have gone to control...because my DH manipulated constantly in an off-the-radar control (his own words) and he never looked confident a day in his life...are you interested at all in who your BH really is?[/color]it is so hard..... because there is my human side and then the side that wants to stay on God's good side....i know that God's love is bigger than anything...... but then i think am i giving up too soon... do i just need a little more faith? but then i think about the whole backbone thing and i get so frustrated! [color:"red"] When you focus on changing, defining and compartmentlizing your partner, you won't have any room left for love. Your choice.[/color] i am too strong, independant and confident i think to be in a relationship! [color:"red"] How are you confident? You say you are lost, fighting your own demons, that voice in your head, the miasma of being human...what if living without a marriage partner is EASIER for you than living up to your vows? What if you are falsely strong...in that you take over others' through boxing them, reducing them, rather than accepting and understanding them? Might give you a feeling of strength...it is a great weakness. That was my experience in myself. [/color] i was sitting and thinking yesterday.... if my decision is fleshy self versus staying on God's side...but if I stay with Greg will I stay on God's side by staying faithful to him [color:"red"] I believe God would ask you...is not my side, your side? Do you not rejoice in choosing fidelity, for if you betray yourself when you betray others (and vice versa)?[/color] and being happy with him? If I stay with him is it for myself or everyone else? [color:"red"] There is a higher payoff, I believe, in staying and earning your way out of the marriage, than leaving it based on what hasn't come to pass.[/color] i just wish that i was confident enough to make a decision.... with out dealing with the fear of the unknown..... that is what scares me!!! Then there is the thinking of if I make a decision that doesn't make me happy am I really "living"? [color:"red"] Figuring out how you make yourself happy is what I thought you were focused on here. Was that part of what you wanted to learn? [/color] No matter what either way is hard...If I stay with him, I need to find a way to be happy and for both of us to have our needs met. If I leave then I am going to have to deal with the struggle of being alone and starting a new life. [color:"red"] If you leave without getting all your lessons, you will repeat this over and over again...and that may be what you want...because you won't have to go to that unknown...that level of intimacy which scares you so much, IMO. [/color] the funny or sad thing is the first one scares me more than the second!! Honestly, I sometimes feel I have already left him. My heart hasn't been there in a long time, I havent been happy for a long time and that cheats both of us as well as God. [color:"red"]You haven't chosen to act from your love, rather to guide yourself from your feelings. Where did that get you a year ago? What did you learn about how much power you have over your life experience? [/color] Then i ponder how long am I willing to wait on a miracle? i think 7 years is about as much as i got in me for a miracle [color:"red"] Have you read Acey's threads? She was like you for 32 years of her marriage...and she now sees a lot of what she was doing, how their dance took place...and within months, her life is drastically different [/color]

you know the funny thing is... my sister just moved to auburn too..... maybe God new before i did..... go figure!!!! or is it the devil at work giving my more opportunities to screw things up! [color:"red"] What are you saying here without really saying it? What do you believe are the signs that God is leading you away from your marriage? [/color]

so... I think that is pretty much everything I have been thinking....... Thank you for emailing me and keeping me on track! I full heartedly appreciate every inch of the love support and encouragement you have given! [color:"red"] How often have you said this to your BH lately...that you full heartedly appreciate every inch of the love and support and encouragement he's given you? [/color]

Our perspectives are powerful...they determine how we experience life and what we make our decisions from. If yours is one of resentment, entitlement and lack of respect...then that is what will be your life experience...and LIC, please believe, I lived that way for longer than you've been alive. I don't want that for you and I guarantee that is not the way to owning your happiness.

I share all this because I heard that voice in my head...I had the happy feet urge, the constant craving for a clean slate...because I wouldn't give one to my FOO, my DH or my children...and of course not to myself. Living externally will always net you resentment...for yourself, within yourself. Because choosing to live that way, find the cure in others, says you are NOTHING...you don't exist...and that sears us to our souls.

Before you choose to break apart what God put together...why not put on your rings (living in truth...you are married...even when you leave, you will be married until the judge lets that gavel down)...and see where you flipped a 180 in three weeks...from acting from love to reacting to your current feelings...which are passing. Let's root out where your stuff is coming from, what it harkens back to...so you won't have to break marriage after marriage, relationship after relationship and wonder why this keeps repeating?

If only they had a backbone...if they were stubborn (and your BH IS stubborn in my book...he chose to stand by you though his heart was breaking)...if only they were more confident, outspoken, less vocal, not a bully, less controlling, more controlling...

all of which is out of your control...and there you remain, miles from your own happiness, because you don't exist. Only THEY do...what they do or not do, what they feel or not feel, how they act or don't act...

wipes you off the map, doesn't it? No power, no ownership, no freedom, no control.

False living hurts, LIC. I remember. And there are no do-overs...you don't get to go back and undo the lives wrecked...you get to own your choices for your lifetime.

Choose carefully...with clarity and forethought. Get to your own highest honesty...all of yourself...all parts...so you can know your huge power and equally huge limits.

I'm asking you to stay and think on this. I'm not saying you're bad, wrong, evil or crazy. I feel like I'm reaching back for myself and I know what an important contribution you are to this planet and to MB by being here. I believe you could help me in many ways...to heal, communicate, share and know far more than I can do alone.

God has brought you mastery, I believe...in Mark, in MAZ, FH and others...he's been active in your life directly and through others. I'm here, right now, because you haven't been living from your beliefs...as you said on the first page of this thread...you believe strong in openness and honesty...and in your last post, you hide and lie by omission.

Of course roommate-style marriages don't work out...marriage is for partners...which means you have to choose to be the right partner...like in Mark's sigline...instead of dwelling where you have no control...making your BH be the right partner.

I'm asking you to not react in these old ways...choose to act from truth and to live in it. You are married. You may feel great joy right now because the threat of intimacy is about to be removed! Yippee! Easy peasy up ahead!

Or not.

God made us for one another. If you are saying by relying on him for all your ENs...then are you making yourself a bride of Christ? Are you going to be a nun? We all put our personal relationship with God first...inside...where we pray, listen, realign and re-seat ourselves. That's for us, about us...and a crucial part of our half of the marriage...part of who we are--marriage is number one because it has you and it has your BH...equally. You respect God...why not his creation, your BH?

You accept God loves you...and you see his acts of love...

Why not see that your BH loves and acts from his love for you?

What would it take for you to be able to leave this marriage with no regrets, no remorse and joyously for BOTH you and your BH? Would it be two years of MC, along with IC for each of you? Would it be two marriage weekend seminars? Daily communication exercises? Taking no action which you will resent? Staying present and not allowing yourself to react to the past or the possible future?

Would it take learning to treasure yourself, know your stuff separate from BH's stuff...and accept entirely who he really is, as well as yourself? Would it take predetermining boundary enforcements...understanding your code, inside and out, and get to where you automatically reach for amends or enforcements, as needed?

Would it take giving up the belief that there is anyone better suited for you? Or that people are replaceable?

Would it take permitting yourself to love all out...not dependent on BH's thoughts, feelings, beliefs?

And if you learned to live this way...would that be you earning your way out of the marriage, honoring your marital boundaries with gratitude and joy; and respecting your BH's choices as his own, his actions as his, and his stuff as his own?

If you would do this...I would not worry for your future at all. Not for all the re-creating, the loops and downward spirals...and I believe a lot of what you're experiencing you've did before...long before BH...and until you see where your signals (feelings) REALLY are coming from, you will remain LITW, in yourself. Wondering why you cannot connect as others do...feeling defective, tempted, urged and wanting desperately to distract...from fear.

You take your fears with you when you leave.

I fear you leaving your marriage without earning your way out. All the earning to change your BH...to make him into the right partner for you doesn't count towards earning anything. It may have been seven years of effort...to move that rock, instead of doing what God said and pushing it...to learn your limits, your power, and how God can restore, heal and thrive with you in your marriage, so you can get to spiritual intimacy and have no fear of it.

I think I've gone on and on...may my length tell you how important you are to me...and how important your choices are to you, your BH and your marriage.

LA

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Well said LA.

Mark

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i understand everything you are saying and respect the perspectives and wisdom. I am not willing to pretend that I am okay with my situation anymore. I know that I have come a long way from where I was and that yes many times i tried to move the rock rather than allowing God to push it out of the way for me.

I understand that this is a MB website and that should be the main focus but I can step away from this knowing that I have done everything possible.... have used more than one avenue and approach and that still my H doesnt even want to sleep with me... hmmmm over 2 years and nothing... and when I am told by someone who "loves" me that I am full of the devil and have been for over 3 years.... wow... that really makes me want to reconsider this peace i have....

I do not feel i have lied or ommitted anything... and I am sorry that you feel that way. I really dont know what else to say.


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LIC,

After further consideration, I am now inclined to agree with your decision to separate. Feel free to email me if you wish (addy is in my profile) but be sure to use Ace and her H as a cc: so that we can both be held accountable by someone who knows what is going on. (All about avoiding the appearance of impropriety)

LA,

We all know that when only one member of a marriage comes here seeking help, there is some information that we will not have privilege of. There is always a piece missing.

When LIC first arrived, I thought her to be a fogged out WS, but I was amazed at how quickly she picked up the basics and the ease with which she seemed to be able to apply them, both to her own situation and those of others.

I asked her how long she has been doing the right things to save her marriage and I now think that the answer may be long enough. She tried to move the stone herself for years and has only recently decided to let Jesus roll it away for her. I feel that this is exactly what He is doing.

LIC's LB$ has been depleted for a long time and I had mistakenly thought it was because she was not accepting the deposits her H was making. I have come to see the error of that thinking and now feel that the reason for her bankrupt state is because he is not making the needed deposits. It isn't always the WS who is sitting on the fence and cake eating.

That is not to affix blame entirely on him, only to say that regardless of what she does, total lack of any action on his part can only be tolerated for so long without taking its toll. It does, after all, take both people in a marriage to make the MB concepts work as they should. One person can apply them and the relationship improves by some percent, but until both people commit to the marriage and making it what it should be, there is only so far things can go.

LIC, I am assuming that your pastor knows of the situation and your decision and that he is in agreement with it.

Don't stop posting or reading here, LIC. You do have much of value to contribute and I would feel it as a personal loss if you were to vanish from this site.

As sad as it may be, not all marriages should be saved, and as much as it pains me to say so, this may in fact be one of those. FWIW, I think even Dr H would agree on this one.

And one more thing...

{{{LIC}}}

Still praying for you but with a new way of thinking....

Mark

PS LIC, how about a new thread without so much baggage to keep us informed of how you are doing. I leave it up to you. Just remember, we do care...

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LIC,

I'm with Mark. I want you here...to keep posting and sharing. I'm not judging you...I'm terribly worried you will experience this in each relationship you have. I fear for you.

Does not make me right, clairvoyant or wise. Comes from my act of love...to post honestly to you, from my own experience, filters and perceptions. And from my heart.

LA

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 672
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I'm terribly worried you will experience this in each relationship you have.

I have said this exact same thing to LIC in the past.

I have something else I'd like to add...I hope it doesn't ruffle any feathers...

My humble opinion is that this sense of peace is more likely a sense of relief, anticipation, excitement...that she will be able to pursue her life and other relationships in her freedom.

I say this, because I too, felt this same peace when I told my DH that I was leaving...I thought that finally now I would be free.

Those feelings were short lived.

I realized that leaving the marriage was not going to make me any happier, the problems in myself could not be run away from.

Not that my M didn't need working on too, it did. But that wasn't the sum total of everything that was wrong.

LIC, you certainly have the right to do whatever you feel is best, not that you're wrong for leaving...this is just something I wanted to share with you.

And please stick around regardless...

Your friend, MAZ


Me, 43, 2 online EA's 2006
DH, 45, 2DDs, 16 & 9
Married 23 years.
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