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Okay I admit this is a little negative and I know it is just a remote possibility.

But the type of advice a D lawyer WOULD give her would be something like:

"Your H had the legal right to sell the asset. We might try to state the case that you were cheated out of equity hoping the judge will allow you more in the settlement but it will be difficult to prove that he sold it below market value and, even if we could, you still will likely only get 50%. So if you divorce now, you will get significantly less in the settlement. So I recommend that you go home and convince your H to reverse the sale. Tell him you are not filing. Once he does reverse the sale, then file for divorce. I'll have the papers already drawn up. Once we file, we also file an injunction so he won't be able to dispose of any assets without your and the court's consent. mwaaahaahaa MWAAAhaahaa!"

[Okay so maybe he didn't actually add that wicked laugh at the end. I just think D lawyers are inherently evil so maybe I let my imagination get the better of me.]

So she comes home and gives you ultimatum #1 which is her goal and 2 thru 4 as a smoke screen to throw you off the scent. In fact, if you fully disclose an A, then she has extra dirt on you! When you do reverse the sale and she then files for divorce, she will remind you that she never gave you any guarantees that the M would work out so she has every right to the D.

I would think that sale through very carefully. JMHO but something isn't kosher here. Right now that may be the only card you're holding.

If I can give you a Cliff's Notes version of what she told you after seeing her lawyer, it is:

1) Get my money back for me.
2) Admit that I'm the good guy and you are the one totally at fault.
3) Give me all the dirt on you I can get WITH video.
4) Have the letter "m" stricken from the English language.

[You always make one crazy demand so you can claim the insanity defense..."get my money back". Ha!. Who would ever believe THAT?]

Last edited by piojitos; 06/26/07 09:57 AM.
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I am somewhat of a conspiracy theorist myself, so I see Piojitos' analysis myself.

When I told her I needed to talk to my counsel before I did anything, she even began threatening to file anyway, regardless of my decision.

I think she receieved advice that she was in a 'bad position', and is now trying to climb back into 'good'.

I've called my attorney, hopefully will get to speak to him today, and can move forward from here. This is not the same woman I married... and I don't like this one.

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When I told her I needed to talk to my counsel before I did anything, she even began threatening to file anyway, regardless of my decision.


Panic. You didn't respond the way her lawyer said you would as he patted her hand smiling warmly.

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You know what?

I'd seriously suggest that you have a sit down discussion with your wife...tonite. Get someone to watch the kids, make arrangements for them to spend the night if need be, and plan on being up for a long time.

I'd sit down with her list in front of you. I'd ask her to skip over number one for now...and move on to the remaining things. AND TALK ABOUT THEM WITHOUT LB'ing OR DJ'ing her at all. Remain calm, no matter what she says or does.

Admit to the full and complete story of whatever happened in Jan. Take full and complete responsibility for it...admit it was wrong, hurtful, etc... Make it clear that you regret it and can see how it contributed to getting your marriage to this crisis situation its in right now. Answer any and all questions she has on the subject up front, without hedging in any way whatsoever. Be that open book you'd want from her. Offer to discuss this further with her at any time its needed to help her deal with what happened and clear the air here.

Make it clear to her that she ISN'T required to deal with your parents in any fashion or form. Don't defend them, don't give her any reason to doubt the truth of what you're saying. Make it clear that SHE is the priority in your life, and that you can understand she's hurt by what they've done. Tell her that you'll help resolve the situation if her choice is to reconcile with you, and that if you can't resolve it, you'll ensure that she has no/minimal interaction with them. Make it clear that you completely EXPECT them to accept her back when everything's done...and that if they don't, then it's THEIR loss, because YOU are accepting her back.

As far as number one...tell her that for the moment, that's going to remain on hold until the two of you can determine the course of your marriage. You made a financial decision to protect your family, and that undoing it at this point when things are still up in the air isn't safe...FOR YOUR FAMILY. DISCUSS it with her. Ask her why this is such a sticking point for her. Try to get her to TALK with you about it, and calmly discuss the whole thing. And let her know that you're also going to discuss this with your lawyer and get his advice on how to protect your family and specifics on how to deal with this sale, and that you'll talk with her about it again after you've talked with him.

I'd agree with the other posters about the damage you're doing with your LB'ing and DJ'ing. If you don't get this wrapped under control, it WILL result in your divorce.

They're RIGHT. You have to make yourself SAFE to talk with. You've got to convince her that she can TALK with you about anything and not have you come down on her like a ton of bricks.

Think about this...see what you can work out.

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we actually have our next joint MC session tonight... it will be the second time that we've met w/ our counselors since DDay.

We initially met w/a counselor that is the partner of the doc I've been seeing for IC. Following that initial meeting, she (MC) recommended that she see WW alone for next several sessions. At the last IC session, they decided it was time to get us into a session together.

Both counselors will be there with us.

It will be interesting to see how this one goes.

As I commented way way earlier in this thread, my W is definitely a material girl. She doesn't exhibit that by spending a lot, or frequently, but I believe the security of $$ is a big big deal to her. (And she does like nice things, so when she does spend, she really spends...)

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Well, are you going to do what we say or what? You have both hurt each other. You don't seem to understand how you hurt her, and she doesn't seem to understand how she hurt you. You are both consumed with your own stance and unwilling to back down. Someone has to suck it up, put there needs aside, stop worrying about who's at fault, suck up their ego, extend the olive branch, and do what it takes to get this thing done and save your marriage. You can either do it yourself, or HOPE that she does it.

Let me tell you this right now, FLB. Your WW does NOT want to divorce you. She is afraid of doing the wrong thing. But she doesn't want to be hurt anymore. You need to make yourself a safe place to recover and convince her that staying with you is the right decision. Screw who is right and who is at fault. Just save your marriage. Here is your chance. Can you suck it up?


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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What Jim said !!!


WTF *** Warning *** Make sure brain is engaged before shifting mouth out of Neutral.
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Jim - I have tried to address any/all questions she had for me, but (unfortunately?) I have mentally dealt with that situation and have moved on... with the result being that I don't recall a lot of what she says she's being told that I did. It truly is a case of "I can't remember." It was a bad bad time in my life, in my opinion prior to now was the lowest point in my life. I have apologized over and over for it. I have attempted to answer every question directly and completely.

I think Owl hit it on the head. Set issue one aside until we can address everything else. If that's not acceptable, it certainly supports the conspiracy theorists' ideas.

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OK...but you're going to have to put some EFFORT into trying to remember what you did.

This whole situation is starting to make me really question what's going on. What you've described ("I can't remember") sounds completely and totally like wayward fog to me. So what DID happen that she's so upset about? You meantioned a "near EA"...you realize that this is likely FAR FAR GREATER to her than you're giving it credit to be, right?

Its sounding more and more to me like a case of a F?WS trying to win back their estranged BS now than anything else.

That DOES change the dynamics quite a bit...your lovebank with her is so far in the hole due to whatever happened in Jan that it's going to take Mt Everest to even it the balance.

Again, that's what this is starting to sound like to me at least. I may be jumping to conclusions here...

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Jim - I have tried to address any/all questions she had for me, but (unfortunately?) I have mentally dealt with that situation and have moved on... with the result being that I don't recall a lot of what she says she's being told that I did. It truly is a case of "I can't remember." It was a bad bad time in my life, in my opinion prior to now was the lowest point in my life. I have apologized over and over for it. I have attempted to answer every question directly and completely.

I think Owl hit it on the head. Set issue one aside until we can address everything else. If that's not acceptable, it certainly supports the conspiracy theorists' ideas.

My take is that you are a hypocritical, unrepentant WH who is demanding his WW to repent for her actions, all the while wasting our time and blowing smoke up our @ss. If you can't remember, you better go see a [email]d@mn[/email] hypnotist and get the answers for you because if you don't, you will lose your family. You may have apologized for it, but you haven't truly repented for it. Humble yourself, stay calm, and answer ALL her questions with COMPLETE HONESTY.

Why don't you try to remember exactly what happened, and post it here for us to determine how to address it. If you can't be honest with us, then surely you aren't being honest with your wife.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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an example - she is asking me about an email I sent to BIL's GF in January... telling her how unhappy I was...

I recall the emotions, I recall feeling bad about our relationship and marriage, but I don't recall sending an email like that. So - because I don't remember, I'm 'covering up and ignoring' my past.... I've tried to respond with "I don't recall ever sharing that with ZZZ but I do recall having those emotions..."

I beginning to feel like I've lived up to this posts' title "Help - did I do the wrong thing!' because it seems like I have. I've lost my temper several times, I've DJ'd a bunch (and that one took me a long time to realize what I was doing), I've been critical of her and her choices when mine were similar, just not to the same extent. I truly do not want to lose my wife and family. I want us to be together. But by her making demands and ultimatums, I don't feel like she's giving me a chance to ever make it up and for us to repair our relationship.

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I'm getting a clearer picture now.

You had a possibly one-sided EA with BIL's GF. The reason you don't remember it is probably because subconsciously, you want to block it out. What I would do is answer her questions as completely and honestly as possible. If she asks you about the email, tell her something like:

"Yes, I was unhappy at the time. I was a complete and utter mess. Sure, I wanted to have sex with BIL's GF and I probably flirted with her somewhat. I don't remember emailing BIL's GF, but if she says it happened, it happened, and it was completely wrong of me. I honestly don't remember it because I was barely functioning at the time. If you want, we can look at my email together to see if it is still in the sent items folder or if we can pull up the archive. I don't know what else to say. I truly realize now how wrong I was. I didn't mean to hurt you, and now I truly realize how careless my actions were. I will take steps X,Y,Z to ensure these things won't happen again."

If she keeps asking, don't get upset, raise your voice, or act defensive, just take it for a while until she realizes that you have nothing more to tell. Humble yourself. You screwed up. You royally screwed up your marriage last winter. That in no way excuses what she did, but it does shed some insight into her mindset. Suck it up. Be open with her about the past.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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In the 1st 5 min of counseling tonight, she stated she can't stand being around me, is doing her best to avoid me here in the house, gets more and more upset every time she thinks about the sneaky dirty underhanded thing I did to her w/ my company, and that she's moving ahead with the divorce.

The counselors were kind of in shock... their next questions were like "So what would you like us to do?" My response was "convince my wife that everything I've done in the past two months has been an atempt at saving my marriage"... I brought up that I thought starting divorce would be my line in the sand... that once she began, I didn't think I would make any more attempts to slow her down or change her mind.

We discussed the kids - unfortunately we both have brought the kids into this consciously and subconsciously. Having conversations where they hear bits and pieces can be worse than them actually hearing it all. We both were scolded for not keeping their wellbeing closer to the forefront.

As it relates to separation or D, I believe my WW is going to push for an immediate D to eliminate any opportunity for statute of limitation type issues on the asset sale deal.

Regardless of separation or D, we also discussed an approach to custody and living arrangements that I had never heard of. Rent a 1 BR apartment, and alternate who stays there. Two weeks with kids, two weeks in apt, (or every other month, or every other week, whatever). The main focus with this approach is that the kids stay in a stable unchanging environment, only the parent changes. Anyone heard of / have any experience with this approach?

I think my WW is going to press forward with the D. While I realize that its not over until, well, we allow it to be over, at what point does fighting for reconciliation turn pitiful and needy? And how can one balance Dobson-type principles of 'setting them free' with wanting to maintain a marriage?

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I was forced to sell some assets to insure that we had cash on hand to cover any expenses that came up, with my biggest concern being legal fees, potential for another residence (WW's apartment), and the potential of my job being in jeopardy based on my poor performance.

I didn't discuss with my wife - I probably should have in hind sight, but I did not. She saw a bank statement today and flipped when I told her what I had done. Says she's filing charges for my illegal activities, will immediately push for divorce, etc etc.

I told her that what I did I did only to secure our immediate short term finances, as well as the potential for longer term expenses.


I'm wondering if you won't look back on this some day and realize what an error in judgment this was if you truly wanted to save your M. You were forced? Hardly. I'm really sorry for you for facing an impending divorce but you have just never really gotten with this program.

My guess is that she is going to sue you after the divorce to try to recover what her lawyer will calculate that you "stole" from her. If you get out with a simple divorce, you're lucky.

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You can stop talking to her about it for one thing. Refuse to move out. Undo the sale if you can. Refuse to discuss anything pertaining to the dissolution of your marriage. And for god sakes, don't go along with the stupid custody thing. You are not giving up or discussing divorce is what you should have said in counseling today.

You are also dense and are unable to grasp MB or plan A.

Last edited by jmwc95; 06/26/07 11:10 PM.

Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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FL_B,

This is likely the last time I'll ever post on your thread. But I do recommend you talk to your lawyer.

I would discuss with him thr fraudulent conversion and mention all your WW's threats to see what legal basis she might have. Don't lie to him about being forced to sell. Tell him the whole truth.

Also, ask him about the possibility of a post-nup as a condition for reversing the sale. I doubt WW would go for it and I'm not even sure I would ever bring it up unless your lawyer thinks it has merit.

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Update on my situation...

WW filed last Monday. I have met with my attorney, he has contacted her attorney and papers will be delivered to him rather than served to me.

Depending on the day, the final reason was either the sale of my company, the fact that I told everyone (exposure), too many issues to address, or my favorite - "I just need to be single for a while."

From meeting with my attorney, she's most likely going to receive permanent alimony. Yes - permanent. But we don't know how much yet... She's also going to be receiving some pretty hefty child support for the remaining two minors. So she'll be able to afford living on her own, w/o my 'support' (other than alimony or child support!) for a good long while.

My company sale was not illegal or fraudulent. Her attorney probably advised her to get it reversed, then to file as the chances of getting it revalued in her favor would be much greater, and also it would clearly make it a marital asset at the time of filing. I still stand behind my reason to sell. It covered both our lawyers' retainers and initial consults. It covered repair to our car. It has taken the stress of limited $$ out of this situation. W/o it, we would now be neck deep in debt and panicking over making payments.

Everyone that knows we're getting divorced is in shock, as am I (still!). This just happened so fast... it's <3 months, and she's gone in this relationship. Just wants to put it behind her and move on.

Unfortunately, the kids, all of my family (incl my parents) and me don't want this.I still pray for reconciliation every day. I don't know what God's plan is for me, but I'm asking him to show me some signs.

So that's about it... Dunno what else I can do remedy the situation at this point, so I am allowing her to have her way (be single again). I'm letting her go - so to speak - with hopes that she realizes someday what she walked away from. And maybe we can begin again then.

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If you still want to start over again, keep following the MB plans. Your relationship isn't over until you decide it is.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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2 weeks have passed and she still hasn't submitted her paperwork.

She did have enough time to schedule a consult and get a boob job. (Before anyone asks, her brother paid for it)

She has also started talking to me again, telling me she missed me, and on and on. So I don't know - still on this same roller coaster. Want my wife back, the old one, not the crazy new one.

Do women grow out of midlife crises? Does anyone? or does all of the crap raining down around them wake them up?

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Her brother paid for her boob job?

Eeeewwww!


johnstwin-

"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

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