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#1880688 05/24/07 11:10 AM
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Hello...I am new here. Well actually not new to the site, have been a reader of the posts for quite a while but very rarely have posted. But I am going to change that now...

I have a question about one night stands...my husband and I have been married for 16 years and he has had 3 one night stands that I know of but of course I have my suspisions that there has been more!! And of course he claims that these ONS have never lead to the actual act of sex. Which I also have my doubts about...Oh by the way, all three times there was alcohol involved which I feel is NO excuse!! But defintely a factor...maybe he has an issue with alcohol as well as infedelity!!

I guess my question is how differently do Dr. Harley's concepts apply when the wayward acts have always been a one time thing each?? Should I feel better about our situation or worse?? Especially when I feel that the hurt is just the same. With the one night stands, I have felt like I had no signs or warnings. And how could he chance losing his family for somebody that there where no feelings about??

Dr. Harley talks about the reasons that most people have affairs is because they are getting their emotional needs met somewhere else...well how can that be possible when the woman he messed around with he just met or barely knew??

Has anybody else experienced infedelity in the acts of ONS?? And does the cycle ever end?? And as far as my suspesions should I follow up and try to verify if anything did happen since these times where about 5 years agao?? Or since I already know about the 3 ONS should I just concentrate on the ones that I know about since the underlining problem is just the same??

Fullofdoubt

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FOD,
I am so sorry that you have been struggling through this.... I did have a ONS and have found Dr Harley's concepts still do apply for the most part. Sure some specifics dont really work, but no ONS or Affair (short or long) is the same.... Everyone has their different reasons, excuses,and other factors..... For me after much help from books, friends, and professionals I was able to realize that my ONS was not the start of our problems but a symptom of what my H and I had been dealing with for a really long time.

I for one do not have all the answers and do not want to stray you in the wrong direction, but from your post am I to understand that all 3 ONS happened 5 years ago and he just came clean? Why now? If he just came clean to you, you have to understand he has had a long time to come to grasps with this where it is all fresh and on the surface for you.... you will have questions, you will hurt, you will be angry... and all those feelings are okay. My H and I found that mediation helped us to communicate clearly once I chose to come clean about my choice.

Good luck and may God bring you peace!
LIC


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Dr. Harley talks about the reasons that most people have affairs is because they are getting their emotional needs met somewhere else...well how can that be possible when the woman he messed around with he just met or barely knew??


Incorrect

ALL of us have gaps where our spouses do not meet our ENs. This may cause a weakness in the MARRIAGE, making it vulnerable.


Infidelity happends when the ADULTEROUS spouse fails to protect their own weaknesses.

Last edited by Pepperband; 05/24/07 11:53 AM.
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Instead of concentrating on the past infidelities, how about you and hubby go to a marriage seminar?

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LIC-Thanks for your reply!! You see that is where this gets weird, my husband has had these ONS at various times of our marriage. Once after 2 years of marriage, another at about 7 years and again about 2 years ago. And he told me after everytime!! So I have know for quite some time about all of them...it was the times that I wondered about that were about 5 years ago. And to add to all of this I too had a "close friendship" with a guy that I HAD--no longer do--worked with. We did share a one time kiss--which my husbands also knows about.

But I totally agree with you that the ONS and my kiss were all symptoms of problems that we already had!!So I guess I have answered my own question...we need to work on the problems that caused these to happen. But I think my concern is the fact that I feel like I never stopped wondering about the times that I have had to wonder. Like I need to know...but then again do I really want to know?!!?! Does that make sense?? Like will those times really change our situation any???

PEPPER--Thanks for your reply as well!! And you are correct in saying that the lack of meeting each others EM CAUSED these things to happen but that it caused the instabilty in the marriage for these things to happen!!

I guess deep down I already know that for us to really make it we have to come up with a game plan and really start applying Dr. Harleys concepts!! Any good advice on making this happen??

Thanks again guys...Fullofdoubt

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FOD,
I have read on more than one post that not knowing and what was imagined was always worse than what the truth was..... But I do understand what you mean.... I do agree with Pepper and think that if both of you are working on improving that a marriage seminar would be a great way to get things going on the right track.... Also Dr Harley has some great books that you two could read and discuss together.....
LIC


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fullofdoubt,

Dr. Harley talks about ONSs and it's not very comforting. I'll look for the exact quote. Here:

Quote
Some affairs are "one night stands." They usually take place when a spouse is away on a trip, or when one has gone out partying without the other spouse. These relatively loveless affairs usually happen when people drink and lose impulse control. Alcoholics are the ones most likely to have these flings.

Quote
Affairs can be the same, particularly when a spouse is not in love with his lover. Many affairs are one-night-stands, where a spouse has sex only once with someone who happens to be available. Even when it is repeated, a relationship of sexual convenience without the feeling of love is relatively easy to stop when it is exposed. That's because a relationship without love is usually not an addiction, although it is still devastating to the other spouse when it is discovered.

But these are not the ones I'm looking for.

I remember the gist of what he said because that is the very situation I had to recovery from. He says that people who have a series of ONSs....are not failing to get their needs met....they are opportunists who have deeper issues....character issues. Do not believe for a second that there was no sex. ONSs are all about sex...only about sex. Alcohol is a huge contributing factor....as you say...not an excuse, but a major contributer. My H had alot of out of town travel....and despite the fact that I was loving and giving spouse....he seized the opportunity without any real thought of the marriage. People who do this have "entitlement" issues....they think the rules don't apply to them and that they can simple get away with this stuff.

Harleys strategies still apply....but I think the conditions for reconciliation need to be much much clearer and stringent for serial cheaters who engage in multiple ONSs.

So that's the bad news. The good news is that my marriage has been in recovery for many years now. I think we had a high hill to climb than some other folks....but we did get there.

How strong are you? How willing and able are you to enforce clear boundaries. I took a very radical approach to my husband's cheating (and the suspicion of more) because we were getting ready to go overseas and so my risks were very great. The conditions of reconciliation were severe....and I took them to the next level. I legalized them in two languages. Before I was willing to reconcile he had to aggee to certain things...in writing...notarized...here's some of them:

He had to go to confession and do whatever the priest advised for religious atonement.

He had to have a plan to change jobs....one that required mimimum opportunity for affairs and demonstrate his effort to look for other employment (set up interviews, send out resumes...actively look).

He had to agree to a minimum of 1 year of marriage counseling.

He had to get counseling for "alchohol issues" separate from the other counseling.

He had to grow his spirit....go to church and agree to do 100 hours of community service.

If I discovered more infidelity....there were significant financial and custody penalties that he had agree to.

I know this sounds extreme....but I think the risks of staying with a man who can do this....are big enough to warrant them. I'm no fool.

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LIC and PEPPER--

We did read and SAA and HNHN about a year ago, and they seem to help for a few weeks. But then unfortuanately, we had some family issues that kind of thru us off track and obviously we didn't get back on!! But I have also thought about a marriage seminar, do you know of any goods ones?? And where I can find one in our area??

Fullofdoubt

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FOD
I would suggest checking out weekend to remember through Family life today.... http://www.familylife.com/marriage.asp that would be my first suggestion... i dont know where you live but they go all over the states.... also check out Dr. Dobson and see what he has http://www.family.org/ Those would be the two places I would start.... LIC


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Star*fish--Thank you SO much for you reply!!! Sorry that you have had to endure this as well but I have to admit I feel some relief that finally someobody "gets" what I feel. Like I said in my first post I too had a "close friendship" and shared a kiss with a ex-coworker. Granted this was after 13 years of marriage and 2 of my husbands ONS(that I knew about--but more that I have wondered about). Not that it should of given me reason to do what I did...

But for some reason I always felt so confused by his "continual" ONS. Like somehow, they were on a different level. Like somehow different rules should apply to our recovery. Like you said, I too believe that my husband has a problem with alcohol. And that the reason that he does (or did) this was more out of his own "character" issues than my not meeting his EN. Not that I didn't lack in this area...because I am sure I did. But like you described I just felt that they were more acts of a "opportunist". I just didn't know how to describe it....

I do think that with age his drinking has gooten better, but he has never stopped completely. So I feel the threat is still there. As well as the character issues, is this something that comes with age?? Or does he need IC to address these??

Then we have the extra layer of complexity of my kissing a ex-coworker. Anytime I try to address the reasons of his ONS, he will justify them by my infedilty of sorts. Which is a huge problem for the simple fact that now he will never see (or admit) that his ONS where results of his "character" issues more so then my lack of meeting his EN.

He has actually said that he feels that my one time kiss was so much worse than his numerous ONS for the fact that this was somebody I knew rather than somebody I didn't really know well, like his ONS--not his EXACT words--but the close enough!!

So here we are playing the blame game...which has gotten better with time--but me being me I am waiting for history to repeat itself. Especially since I feel that I have no control (ie meeting his EN. etc) like Dr. Harley suggest.

So I guess my question is...how do you fix it when the circumstances are such as ours??

Thanks Again, Fullofdoubt

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LIC and PEPPER-Thanks again guys!! I did go to the webiste that you recommended LIC and there is a seminar in are area in November so I think we will register!!

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fullofdoubt,

As you suspect, I think the "fixing" is different from other infidelity scenarios. There is no "ongoing" affair to end and in some ways....that's a huge blessing....in others...it's a curse. Accountability and the causes of vulnerability are different from standard affairs. You've got to address the contributing factors like: opportunity (during travel, independent recreation, inappropriate business arrangements etc), alchohol, but more than anything....conscience and character.

If I were you....I wouldn't even try to different your kissing from his failings....they were both beyond the bounds of ethical practice. Rather than fight him....offer to join him in an exploration of spirit, recreation, communication and even community service that can raise consciousness and intimacy as well as build character.

He has the power to defleck your discussions because he puts you on the defensive....what if you didn't get defensive?

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I couldn't agree more. I shouldn't try to different my failings from his. A wrong is a wrong. And I do think we ned to try to join each other and work together instead os against each other. We actually were doing pretty good at this a year or so ago, we were reading Dr. Harleys books and applying his concepts but the we had some issues with our daughter that araised, we got off track and haven't been on since.

Now don't get me wrong we get along pretty well, you have to remember the last ONS was about 2 years ago, so that healing process has begun. But I still feel that some of the things that caused us each to do what we did have not been corrected (ie the character issuses with hubby and some of my EM not being met (as I a sure some of his).

But here is the problem that we endure now. We have two teenagers and one gives us hardly any problems but our other one has given us the year from heck. She has expiremented with drugs, seems to lie, etc. So I feel that most of or concentration has been focused on her and her recovery instead of our marriage. Which as a mother that is how I think it should be but at the same time I see that if hubby and I don't have a strong marriage and a united front that we aren't helping her with her recovery.

Does this make sense?? I guess I just feel torn like as a mother I can't bring myself to put our (hubby and my) recovery before our daughters but at the same time I know that if we don't do something to try to fix us then we aren't doing any of us any good including the kids!!But I am not sure if I have the strength to work on both a the same time...HELP!!!!!!

Fullof doubt


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