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She said that it has never become physical and that she has never thought of him in that way. She has agreed that he has been meeting her conversational need.

Ok, so she is not having an affair, doesn't think of him romantically but has admitted it is an "emotional affair" and is willing to leave her job over a "friendship??" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Would you quit your job over a workplace "friendship" with some guy named BILL? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Mel<---------scratching my head


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I think she is desperately complying with your every wish so that you don't keep pushing the envelope. She's willing to quit her job at your request just because some guy has been talking to her inappropriately? I think she's cooperating so that you think she's telling the truth. I would talk to OMW and see if she had suspected him of having an affair with your wife and get a paternity test for your child. Otherwise, you might never know the truth.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Mel - There was much more to the conversation and I actually wrote it all out to post. Unfortunately when I submitted it it said the form was no longer valid and when I hit the back button my entire post, which took about 20 minutes to write was gone. I was to aggraveted to rewrite it completely. W thinks its ridiculous that she would have to leave her job over this because she doesn't want a physical relationship with him. However, we have both previously read HNHN and have read how EA can lead to PA. She never would have thought that she was having an EA until she read that book and read the definition of one. She understands why it is a serious situation because of that and said that she will do whatever I want her to do to make me feel better. She loves her job and does not want to leave it, but she will. I'm not defending her and saying that a PA has not happened. I'm just giving you more of the conversation. She also didn't know that I had read other emails from him. I asked her if he had emailed her anytime other than the "backseat" email. She told me he had and told me what he would usually talk about, which was exactly what I had read. Again, I'm not saying she was 100% honest with me but she said she was and everything that I could actually verify pointed to her telling me the truth. I spoke with the OM today. I will post what was said.

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As I said I talked to the OM today, I know you guys told me to wait and talk to OMW first but I figured, OMW already has been suspicious of him for having other affairs (which he probably has) so OM has probably been covering his steps for a while. i.e. an email he sent out to friends about one of his kids, he sent one to his work email, and then sent one to W from there. Plus my discussion with W, I did not want anything ruined by him talking to her today. I wrote up what I was going to say so I didn't forget anything. I told him that I wasn't going to call his W or HR if he left my W alone completely just to see how he would react. Here is my conversation.

I have seen the emails you have sent my wife and I've found the comments digusting and unnaceptable. My wife and I talked about this last night and her relationship with you. It has come to my understanding that this wasn't the first time you have insinuated having a sexual affair with her. By doing this you have been telling me, my kids and my W that you don't care if you ruin our lives. W didn't get this before, she gets it now. Because of this W no longer wants to be friends with you. I'm considering taking this email to your wife and HR dept. At this moment in time I'm doing neither. Eventhough you couldn't have cared less about ruining my life, I'm not the type of guy to ruin somebody else's. But if you ever try to contact my wife by either talking to her or email her or even look at my wife from across the room, she will tell me and I'm sending that email to them. I'm sure your HR will consider that email sexual harassment and will immediately fire you. I also know a lot of people that work there that will be watching you in case you think she would be afraid to tell me out of sympathy, but she has assured me this would not happen. My wife told me that you live for your kids, if that is the case then you wouldn't be trying to screwing around on their mother. I suggest for your kids sake you patch things up with your wife and stop trying to mess around with mine. I'm sure if I tell them about all of this that your family will be devastated, it's up to you whether I tell them or not. Are you clear on everything I just said?

His response: I believe so

and I hung up.

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About 2 hours later I receive a phone call from my W at work. She said that OM just sent her an email. I asked her what it has said and she said she hadn't read it yet. I told her to forward it to me and delete it without reading. Not sure if she did the latter but I received the email about 20 seconds later. Here is OM email with my responses.

From OM to W

WOW�I am so sorry�it must have been a very difficult weekend for you�I hope you know that I never intended anything like this to happen�I don�t blame him for being angry because I would not want to lose you either�you are the one person I truly enjoy being around and look forward to seeing each day�I feel very comfortable and nervous around you and enjoy our talks�I hope this is not an end to our friendship but I understand if it is�just know that the only thing I was concerned about while talking with him was not making it any worse for you than it already is�whatever happens I hope you will always know how I feel�btw tomorrow is the one year anniversary of the first day I got to see you!!! Weird huh???

My response to OM

I wasn�t kidding when I said to leave my wife alone. She doesn�t want to see anything happen to our marriage any more than I do which is why she forwarded this to me. I am contacting your wife about this. After that, HR. I�m afraid if I do that you will lose your job and your family. I don�t want to see that happen to anyone but you are giving me no other choice. I will do everything to protect my family. W now realizes your true motives for your friendship with her. I�m going to give you an ultimatum. Since you will not leave W alone, the 2 of you can no longer work together. If you put your 2 week notice in by the end of the day today, I will not call your wife or HR. Otherwise I�m going to call both and let them take care of it. I�ve tried giving you a chance to back off and you didn�t take it. You have until 12:30pm today to respond with your answer(it was 12:10 when I sent this).

OM response to me

I completely believe you and don�t want anyone hurt either�I at least wanted to apologize to her and tell her that I understand how you feel�This job is very important to me because of my family�so I can be available to my kids in the evenings for there activities�I promise to not talk or email Stormy from this moment forward if that is what it takes�I don�t want her or anyone else hurt and I am sorry if my email upset her but I didn�t want to approach her and tell her that I understand but hope that we could at least be cordial�please consider this as I promise not to break hers or your trust and if necessary I can ask to be transferred to a new supervisor or another section of the building�sorry again

My response to OM

I will tell you that being cordial is not even an option. Saying hello is not an option. Looking at each other is not an option. I would consider moving to another section of the building at the very least, because I will not allow you two to work together. Originally W and I planned on her being the one to tell you all of this, but I thought you would take it more seriously coming from me. So far it doesn�t look like you are taking it seriously enough. You say that job is important to for your family. Your job can be replaced. Your family cannot. If they know about this there is a good chance you will lose them and your kids are at the age where they can resent you for it. I speak from experience of my parents going through the same thing. I�ve already found your wife�s name (holly) and your home number. I suggest you start fixing the problems at home rather than creating them for your family and someone else�s family. I still don�t know if moving to another section of the building is enough for me not to tell your wife and HR. I�m really a nice guy which is why I didn�t go to your wife first. But once I�m crossed I will be your worst enemy, especially when it comes to the most important thing to me, my family! I�ve tried giving you a chance and so far it has failed. At this moment I�m on the fence as to whether or not I�m contacting your wife and/or hr.


He called me after this. He said he is going to their supervisor and asking for a transfer. Not sure if he was bluffing but.. I told him that I know his supervisor very well (which I do, used to work with him) and that I will check with him tomorrow to see if this has occured. I told him that still may not be enough and that I will let him know later this week. The conversation was much longer but it was mainly him kissing my behind telling me he never thought of my W in that way (yeah right, then why was he sorry?) but would do whatever it takes to make it right.

I have since talked to some of my friends/old co-workers that now work there to keep an eye on the situation for me. I'm also going to get a paternity test just to be sure.

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Oh, dear, not really the MB way. Hopefully it will work out anyway. One problem I see is that you told the OM that he was never to communicate with your wife again, or even look at her or you would expose at work and to his wife.

Then, a few minutes later, he emailed your wife. Hmmmmmm, so much for threats.

And the email could have said for her to please forgive him for his inappropriate talk, and that he will leave her alone. But instead he flatters the heck out of her.

You are very likely to drive them underground, with you being seen as the meany. He may also spin the story to his supervisor and his wife that you are an insanely jealous husband who is picking on poor little him.

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believer, I see your point, I guess I didn't think about some of those things. The one thing I do have is written evidence, I don't have the main email but his work should be able to retrieve it and I have atleast enough to convince OMW who has already been expecting other affairs. As far as driving them underground, W was never telling me anything about it anyway. I had to find evidence of what has happened before I got anything out of her. And now that I exposed it, if she was still seeing him she definately would be hiding. But I can see how I have given him time to come up with alternate stories. Thanks again for the advice. I hope I didn't tank it! I guess emotions got the best of me.

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There have been many on this forum who have described a situation like yours and then the BS finds out it was a PA. So people sound dramatic, but with justification <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. He is very disingenuous. The email he sent her is proof of that. He may or may not ask for the transfer. If he does ask for one, more than likely, he will not tell why.

You have not promised to keep his secrets for him. I cannnot fathom why you even want to keep his sectets for him. Why do you want to do his bidding, be his lapdog?? You can still go ahead and expose him to his workplace and to his wife.

His wife deserves to know what he is doing. That email he sent you W was a show of complete disregard for the ageement you were trying to establish with him. Again, why you would want to make any bargain with him is beyond me.

You are getting a paternity test. Doesn't that say something? Maybe it is all as your wife states. But you are concerned enough and I believe smart enough to get that paternity test. Expose him to his work and to his wife. Plan A your wife.


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H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977

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bhge, unfortunately you have handed the OM a weapon and given him a reprieve all the while neutralizing yourself.

He knows your battle plans so all he has to do is go further underground and you will be none the the wiser.

In the meantime, since he knows you have threatened to expose him, all he has to do is pre-empt you. Its real easy, they do it all the time. He will tell his W and his employer that you are an insanely jealous nutjob who imagines that all male coworkers are chasing your W. If and when you do call those ppl, you may find yourself thoroughly discredited as they look at you with pity and hope you get some help for your "mental problems."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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bhge, unfortunately you have handed the OM a weapon and given him a reprieve all the while neutralizing yourself.

He knows your battle plans so all he has to do is go further underground and you will be none the the wiser.

In the meantime, since he knows you have threatened to expose him, all he has to do is pre-empt you. Its real easy, they do it all the time. He will tell his W and his employer that you are an insanely jealous nutjob who imagines that all male coworkers are chasing your W. If and when you do call those ppl, you may find yourself thoroughly discredited as they look at you with pity and hope you get some help for your "mental problems."

I disagree. You'd be right if WW was still in FOG/Protect mode, but she's not.

You absolutely owned him, and he's in a state of shock. The fact that your wife forwarded that e-mail to you takes OM power away. A NC letter must be written IMO and sent to both parties and signed by you BOTH.

Your wife has claimed and proven she's on board with you by sending you his break of communication e-mail as proof. OM also wanted to test out your wife to see if this was all true and serious....and definately found out you...and her mean business.

Stick with her, Plan A, be a better person than you have been. Good luck man.


H (37) Me
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D-Day on EA -Oct 28, 2006
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My response to OM

I wasn�t kidding when I said to leave my wife alone. She doesn�t want to see anything happen to our marriage any more than I do which is why she forwarded this to me. I am contacting your wife about this. After that, HR. I�m afraid if I do that you will lose your job and your family. I don�t want to see that happen to anyone but you are giving me no other choice. I will do everything to protect my family. W now realizes your true motives for your friendship with her. I�m going to give you an ultimatum. Since you will not leave W alone, the 2 of you can no longer work together. If you put your 2 week notice in by the end of the day today, I will not call your wife or HR. Otherwise I�m going to call both and let them take care of it. I�ve tried giving you a chance to back off and you didn�t take it. You have until 12:30pm today to respond with your answer(it was 12:10 when I sent this).

Beautiful! Holly must be told of his pursuit regardless.


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I disagree. You'd be right if WW was still in FOG/Protect mode, but she's not.

You absolutely owned him, and he's in a state of shock.

No, he's not. What he is is FOREWARNED and ASSURED of secrecy. And forewarned is FOREARMED. bhge has made a bargain to help the affair by keeping it a SECRET. Affairs thrive on secrecy. bhge has just neutralized his best weapon. His best weapon was EXPOSURE and he just threw it away.

Without the OMW knowing, the OM is free to do whatever he wants. And bhge's wife may or may not resist, depending on her energy level that day. That is like sending the alcoholic into the bar every day and expecting him to resist temptation every day. It is a fools' mission.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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DF,

Sure he handled OM pretty well, however, absent telling OM's wife (which likely hasn't yet been circumvented because OM thinks he's not going to expose him)...when OM looks back at this in a few weeks his thought will be:

"Whew...that was close, I better be more careful in the future".

NO consequences at home for his actions equals no consequences. He'll be free to play with fire again given ANY opportunity.

He'll just be certain to be more careful.

Maybe give WW some puppy eyes from across the cafeteria. Act devastated. Wait for her to approach him. Play all hurt. Complain some more about his marriage and try to get WW to apologize for the treatment her mean ole husband gave him.

It might take a week, a month or a year...but until you tell his wife...OM has not endured much of anything not to mention...YOU have become his co-conspirator...keeping HIS secret from his wife. She MAY just make him quit...thus, saving your wife's job as OM indicated he is NOT going to quit.

Mr. W

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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bhge Offline OP
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DF - Thanks for the encouraging words. I know I haven't gone the route that most on her would have liked. It could have backfired if she was having a PA or if she really had an emotional attachment to him, but she is proving to me that isn't the case. You are also right that I shocked him. I talked to my friend (OM's supervisor) and he has asked for a transfer. He was testing my wife and she did exactly what I expected of her. She has told me she has no interest in him other than friends. OM called me today like he said he would to tell me that a transfer request was made. I "documented" the entire conversation. I asked him about why he made the "backseat comment" and the "10 dates" comments, he admitted to everything. I've also got him "documented" telling me he was in love with her but never told her. OM did tell a mutual friend at work about it and the friend told my wife she should probably stay away from him for a while (unfortunately she never told my wife exactly why or else W said the friendship would have ended then). With OM being "documented" admitting everything, I'm no longer worried about OM turning things around on me. I'm also not worried about W. She is on board with me 100%. Thanks again for your support.

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I don't know if your state is a two party consent state or not so as a blanket recommendation I advise you to remove the references to "taping" OM above. It may actually be illegal in your state. Maybe use the word "documented".

Since your wife apparently wasn't involved with him I'm guessing she's in total agreement that regardless of OM following through...OM's wife's should be told.

It really is best for OM and his wife that his secret, unrecoited (sp?) love for your wife be known so that they can perhaps work on their marriage and avoid any future infidelity with the next fantasy love relationship he developes and pursues at work. Next time OM won't be lucky enough to have avoided it becoming physical. That MAY just save his butt...this time.

I know it seems extreme but you'd really be doing OM and his wife a big favor. The truth is not hurfull...the truth is helpful.

Good luck...I truly hope you are dead on with your assesment of their relationship. If you guys have the money you should consider a marriage builders weekend. Work on things. Affair proof your marriage.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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MrW - Again thank you for the advice. My wife has agreed to leave her job. We are in the process of looking for another job. It may take upto a month before she can get out of there, but she is leaving. More than likely going to go part time and stay home with the kids more. I never told him that because I don't want him to put heavy pressure on her knowing that she was leaving. He probably thinks he can let this boil over and maybe she'll go back to being friends with him in a month or 2. She will be gone by then. She doesn't want to leave her job but she did not argue with me when I asked. She has told me she will do everything I need to trust her.

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I looked up our state law on phone taping

It is neither invasion of privacy nor eavesdropping to record a telephone conversation if the recording is accomplished with the consent of either the sender or receiver of the communication

So luckily what I did was legal. I appreciate you looking out for me MrW.

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I disagree. You'd be right if WW was still in FOG/Protect mode, but she's not.

You absolutely owned him, and he's in a state of shock.

No, he's not. What he is is FOREWARNED and ASSURED of secrecy. And forewarned is FOREARMED. bhge has made a bargain to help the affair by keeping it a SECRET. Affairs thrive on secrecy. bhge has just neutralized his best weapon. His best weapon was EXPOSURE and he just threw it away.

Without the OMW knowing, the OM is free to do whatever he wants. And bhge's wife may or may not resist, depending on her energy level that day. That is like sending the alcoholic into the bar every day and expecting him to resist temptation every day. It is a fools' mission.

LOL...you're putting something in place I can understand. While OM is forewarned, I do agree OM's wife should know. That's why the NC or "Disclosure" letter from both Him and his wife is in order.

If OM gets a transfer, then great, bhge's better off and so is the situation. He bargained with him yes, but it is not enabling and "Affair" since his wife is transparent to him.

BUT......I'm not so sure there was not something going on in the time OM "Loved" WW. Don't believe OM. Don't believe WW right now even though she's playing ball. Make sure transefer happens. LET OM's WIFE know what he did.

One copy of that e-mail to HR should send om packing.......AND if there was more to the EA, he will likely end up defending himself with alike e-mails from WW saying it was consentual....if they exist.

Get the paternity test done. Keep your eye out.


H (37) Me
ww(37)
Married 10 years
2 DD's 6 and 9.
Together for 17 years.
D-Day on EA -Oct 28, 2006
Second D-Day 12-08....Divorce in Process
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MrW - Again thank you for the advice. My wife has agreed to leave her job. We are in the process of looking for another job. It may take upto a month before she can get out of there, but she is leaving. More than likely going to go part time and stay home with the kids more. I never told him that because I don't want him to put heavy pressure on her knowing that she was leaving. He probably thinks he can let this boil over and maybe she'll go back to being friends with him in a month or 2. She will be gone by then. She doesn't want to leave her job but she did not argue with me when I asked. She has told me she will do everything I need to trust her.

RED FLAG HERE.

Why is she so quick to agree to leave? She's being awful compliant right now.

If there truly was nothing going on and it's a simple harassment case, logic would say there's no reason SHE should leave. She should be willing to take it up with HR herself.

I'm thinking she should fess up to the whole story.

This all could be a ploy. Something's not right here.


H (37) Me
ww(37)
Married 10 years
2 DD's 6 and 9.
Together for 17 years.
D-Day on EA -Oct 28, 2006
Second D-Day 12-08....Divorce in Process
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