ditto

Jamesus...I'm the least wise person on this site. Ask anyone here...ask MEDC...he'll tell you!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Had I been wise...I might have avoided my own reasons for being here. I'm just trying to help others benifit from my own learning experiences.

Hehe... if anything I've learned so far from all of this Owl.. life is experiential.. the only way to learn is to live it.

It's like that quote from Batman Begins: Why do we fall? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up again.

Had a bad night again last night...

after sending her the notice about the CC bill she said that she was at work and didn't have time to read the emails I've sent over the past week. She said they looked pretty long and she would get to them and get back to me about them when she had time.

Whatever..

Last night I just kept going over and over in my head.. I -am- a good husband.. I gave in to just about everything she ever asked me for. I tried my best to change some of the things I did when she said it annoyed her. I put her through college, and supported her and my family for 2.5 years after my son was born without complaint that I wasn't getting any help from my 'partner'.

I -am- an excellent Father.. I found the stack of papers my kids did for me at daycare for Fathers Day... so much love in everything those kids wrote and drew, and did for me that day. Their words, and their art tells me every time I look at it that I -am- their father.. her daughter, which she's hidden away from me now, has only known me as her dad for the past 3 years.. She was livid when I called her ex-husband two weeks ago, saying she would never let her daughter go through that pain again... she doesn't even stop to think that she is the one putting them through it this time with the choice that she's made.

It's sickening to think that I could even open the door to the possibility of her hurting those kids like this ever again. I'm honestly not sure if I can do it.. take that chance. She said in the letter she left at the house wanting a divorce that she couldn't risk being unhappy... but her choice is guaranteeing the misery and pain for me, and her children for a lifetime..

Pathetic...
Selfish...
Childish...

Her kids and I did nothing to deserve the pain and suffering she is putting us through... I love her, and I love my kids.. but the difference here is that she can choose.. these kids have no choice, and I know that if they could see their lives 10 years down the road.. they'd pick me.. the one who loves them and considers them first before myself..

Guys.. I need help.. I need your encouragement.. I need guidance. This still seems to be following the 'script' for an affair.. but at the same time, I don't know that I want her back. I'm actually fine with plan D... but with her being a paralegal.. and the court system the way it is with favors and everyone being friends outside of court, I feel my chances.. even with an airtight case are probably pretty slim..

Once again in dispair.. I feel lost and hopeless. I know I'm in the right here.. I know that I am the one who is thinking of these kids rather than myself. I know that I'm the one who did not make the conscious choice to destroy my family.. so why do I hurt so much?

hopefully you have realized now that this does not make a good H. You need to have a backbone in a relationship to keep the respect of your W. From my vantage point, it seemed like this woman walked all over you.



You certainly are showing that right now by protecting them from the greatest threat to their welfare...their mother.

Just because your wife has chosen this path does not mean that you and the kids will need to be unhappy. I am living proof that no matter what a mother does... a father can protect his children and give them a stable life. It isn't easy and that is why I suggested getting in touch with a father's rights attorney...but it can be done.

Stop worrying about her job as a paralegal...big deal. Get yourself the best attorney you can find and tip the scales in your favor. Your chances are not impacted by her employer even a little bit. You are finding reasons and in some cases fabricating them and getting yourself in a frenzy.

Get the lawyer you need and let this play out...you might be very surprised by the outcome.

I sincerely hope I am suprised by the outcome.

I think I do have the right lawyer.. I just need to be providing him with the right information. I've got a pretty good idea what that is now, I've just got to get it all together and make sure that I'm not missing anything.

Need to get my witnesses/neighbors together.. get a statement from the school nurse for my stepdaughter that she was treated for flea bites at school.. get the daycare people on board for my son.. and hope for the best.

BTW..

HNHN and SAA are due to arrive tonight...

Got some reading to do after she comes to get our son tonight at 8:30

Might just have them lying out when she gets there.

Well.. the books did not come last night. Perhaps I'll see them tonight.

Not sure how much good they'll do though. I'm feeling pretty cold to the situation right now.

WW stopped by last night to pick up our son, and so I let her in the house while I put his shoes on.

WW told me that our 8 year old wanted some of her things. I told her that she was welcome to come any time and take of her things what she wants to have over there.

WW said "I don't think she'll want to do that, she's pretty mad at you right now."

I said "I don't understand why.. what did you say to her that made her so mad at me?"

WW said "I told her the truth.. that if you get DS that she will only get to visit with him on Wednesdays and every other weekend. She's mad at you because you're taking her brother away from her, and she's also mad at you for disrespecting her mother."

I stifled a chuckle at that and just shook my head "That poor little girl.." I murmered, "She's really confused if she thinks you're the one who has been disrespected in all of this."

WW said "What's that supposed to mean?"

I said "I really don't want to talk about it with you anymore, it hurts too much, and I definitely don't want to have this discussion in front of our son... Please just give her a hug and tell her that I love her very much."

With that I kissed my son, and told him I'd see him the day after tomorrow.


I really want to send an email explaining my comments, possibly work them into a Plan B letter.. I think I'm going to have to go dark if I'm going to be able to protect what love I have left for my W.

WW is completely twisted.. seems to feel completely justified in her actions, and can't even see just how deeply she is hurting these kids. Stepdaughter still struggles with the abandonment of her Bio-Father.. and now WW is the one who is causing her to go through that pain all over again.. severing her contact with me is going to cause those feelings all over again.. there is a deep love between me and Stepdaughter.. I've always treated her as my own.. and I think that this, really hurts even more than the thought that my wife may never see just how wrong all of this is, or even be capable of accepting responsibility for what she has done..

Any advice from the veterans here on how to handle this?

J,

I am certainly no veteran here, but wanted to stop in to tell you that you did well with this exchange last night.

Your WW using your DSD like that makes me so upset for you all!!

Your response was perfect!!


Refusing to engage in this CRAZY talk in front of your son was most certainly the right way to handle this.

My sitch is like yours. I have a DSS who was also abandonded by his bio-mom. He's been MY SON since he was 5. Yet, Drac (MY WH), refuses to see the damage he is causing his own son, not to mention our daughter who lives with me.



Yep - - I could put in Drac in place of your WW.

Stick here on the boards for some great advice. Focus on being the best Dad you can to BOTH of your kids, they will see it and thank you some day.

Protect yourself and the love you have left as best you can. I will try to catch up more on your sitch. I just wanted you to know you are not alone.

Hang in there!

Bugsmom...

I'm so sorry to hear that things are the same way with you. Nobody deserves to feel the way I know you and I both feel.

Thanks for the post, and the encouragement.. I can't tell you how much better it feels to know that I'm not alone.

James,

Have you discussed any of this with you atty? Is there a chance that because your stepdaughters dad is not a part of her life, that you could get legal visitation rights for her?

Were you very actively involved in her life, such as taking her to school activites, doing homework with her, taking her to soccer...

I wonder if her being pulled away and isolated from you after you were established as her dad for all intents and purposes would not sit well with a judge.

It's worth a try, and I know that I did read a story of a stepparent custody case that went all the way to the high courts and he won custody.

It's a long shot for sure, but at least this little girl would know that you have not abandoned her, as her dad did. How horibly wrong of your WS to do this. Is her mother around? She needs a good swift kick.

James,

Check with your attorney but somewhere in your court case you should document your desire and request for some kind of custody or visitation rights to Step-daughter. Even if you aren't legally entitled to it at least it will be there to someday show your step daughter that you did TRY to get some access to her. That YOU were not abandoning her. That her mom denied your attempts to be with her.

Also, waywards once divorced, no matter what happens in court tend to be very forgiving. They forgive easily because they want everyone else to forgive them. Plus, your wife is a selfish wayward who likely will WANT to dump her step daughter on you from time to time and/or she will be a "sucker" to her stepdaughter that requests time with you. Doesn't always happen this way...but can. In your court case, you need to stay out of the mud. Allow your attorney to be the bad guy. Then you can seemingly make peace with your XW in order to get to see Step Daughter more.

Last...after this is all said and done I think you should consider setting up a separate bank account where you place or have direct deposit $5-$30 per week. Then in 8 years when your step daughter turns 16 you'll be able to offer to buy her a car with the funds. You tell her that since the day she left you've been putting away a little money in hopes to use it on HER to get her a car to come see you more often. If you go more toward the high end $20 - $30 per week you could even use the money to help her with college. Give her the essence that you never stopped thinking about her and always considered her yours. She will be an adult one day and she will have complete automony to see you whenever she wants.

Good guys DO win in the end.

Mr. Wondering

I'll ask my atty about it. He's been pretty clear though that we have no legal ground to stand on with DSD.

Guess it couldn't hurt to ask at least for some kind of visitation in the final order... not that I think it'll do much good.. not in this state at least.

WW says that the child doesn't -want- to see or talk to me. I'm not sure how to feel about that.. I know it's the WW poisoning her.

I like the idea Mr.W... think I'll start doing that.

An 8 yo doesn't have the mental ability or the power to stand up against her mother. She doesn't hate you or even dislike you... remember she is a child who has been thrust into complete confusion and uncertainty.

My daughter even at 8 had a pretty good sense of something that didn't quite add up, and your stepdaughter probably does as well.

As Mr. W says, after the dust has settled, and especially if you continue to take the high road, you may be a part of her life again.

Don't do anything that is against what your atty advises, but perhaps you could send cards and what not to the grandparents house for her, not ever putting anything in them that would cause more confusion or upset in her world regarding her mother. Or in other words you are going to have to show respect for her mother to protect this young girls feelings, but you can maintain the truth and speak it as well. At least when she gets older and it is more appropriate.

I worry about this girl, and if it were a child in my family I would be very thankful that her stepdad was standing up for her right to be raised in a stable and loving environment with a parent that she has come to know and trust as being someone who cares about and for her.

I said "I really don't want to talk about it with you anymore, it hurts too much, and I definitely don't want to have this discussion in front of our son... Please just give her a hug and tell her that I love her very much."

Perfect.

If she thinks she is the "disrespected" one here, she's crazy, and you don't get into debates with crazy people.

You seem calm, self-assured, and--this is huge--now YOU are the one disengaging from R talk.

If she wants to talk about coming home, R talk might make sense. Otherwise she's just trolling for justification. The more that comes out of your mouth, the more she'll send through the crazy machine and turn into reasons for continuing her new lifestyle.

MrW's idea is excellent.

GC

That's a good way of putting it. Send through the crazy machine indeed.

Wow... I'm really glad to hear that you guys think I'm doing the right things now.

I don't know if I'd have even made it this far without you guys.

DJ's and AO's are always rushing to the front of my mind when I'm talking to her.. especially face to face.. and especially when I want so much to keep emailing her to try to 'straighten her out'... I know these aren't things I can do and be successful in the end.

Can't tell you how hard it was to say that I didn't want to talk about it with her when all I want to do is be able to have a real adult conversation with her about all of this... I also know that isn't possible right now... probably won't be for a long time.

I'm going to do what I can to get my son.. get through the D and keep hoping and praying that she will come to her senses before I lose any feeling at all for her.

I still love her dearly.. but what she has done to this family, the pain she has caused our kids and me.. without even seeming to care a whit about the fallout.. It makes it hard to love.. to keep loving.. to keep caring at all. If it were anyone else in the world that hurt my family like this I'd hunt them down and do terrible terrible things to them.. but with her, at least right now.. I'm just incredibly sad.

Thanks to you guys I'm starting to learn how to cope.. I really think I need to at least start Plan B at this point. Plan A is going to be futile as there's really no way for me to meet -any- of her EN's with the situation the way it is. I've read a few people's plan B letters, and I'm hoping that the SAA book will help me craft my own in a way that will leave a lasting impression before I completely sever all contact that doesn't have to do with the kids.

I read about 19 pages of SDGuy's Plan B but can't find it anymore.. was really starting to give me some ideas about how it might be with my own.. if anyone has a link to it or can find it in the search (I've tried).. I'd really like to finish reading that thread.

With a young son and a step daughter you have no legal right to custody (i.e. - the court would LIKE to keep the kids together)....

You have an uphill battle at winning custody.

50-50 if you do everything perfect.

Much of that comes down to the judge.

What's my point?

You are likely going to have to do a modified Plan B lest WW's attorney tries to utilize your Plan B as a unwillingness to co-parent your child.

A modified Plan B doesn't change much for you. The difference is WW thinks she can communicate with you by certain means and you just have an intermediary filter your stuff for you. Your Plan B letter doesn't say you won't have ANY contact except for emergencies. It might say "you won't have ANY contact except for things to do with your son and in that event only phone calls for dire emergencies, text messages for urgent matters and email for all other things to do with your son (and step daughter). Maybe then you add that you will or may be having a independent 3rd party act as intermediary should be prove unable to respect such communication boundaries. (meaning if she makes communications about things unrelated to son and step daughter....SHE breaks the rules...THEN an intermediary can be used openly and you have wiggle room with the court because SHE choose to disregard your reasonable and thought out attempt at effective co-parenting).

Either way... you still auto-forward her emails to an intermediary that will edit out any crap and forward it back to you for your response to her.

WW seemingly can contact you at will...but not really. You don't answer your cell phone. Let it go to voice mail and let someone else listen to it. Text messages get huge delayed responses such that she doesn't utilize text messages for long. Email...is the only route for her to get any decent response but she won't know she's being completely edited out.

It's a work in progress. Plan B can and will be used against you by effective counsel unless you taylor it to meet the perceived needs of the court for the illusion of co-parenting and communication.

Mr. Wondering

Would it be better than to keep trying at least the self improvement part of Plan A.. and an effective 180 until the D is final and then switch to Plan B?

I just hope I can hang on to the love I have for her if it takes that long.

Here is the letter I plan on sending.

If anyone has suggestions or comments, please let me know.

WW,

I don't want there to be any misunderstanding between us about what was said last night in the context of DSD, and especially regarding who between the two of us has been disrespected.

No, I will not have these conversations in front of our son, that is why I said I didn't want to talk to you about it.

Here is my position on the matter.

1) What you told to DSD about what you think I'm trying to do for our son, is exactly what you have done to me. Keeping the kids from me except for Wednesdays and every other weekend. Now you're keeping DSD from me completely. I have asked many times to take DSD and DS on either Monday or Tuesday night as well to go to Gymnastics/Cheerleading and still be a part of their lives. Each time I've asked for additional time it has been refused. I certainly would not do this to you, and beyond that, DSD is always welcome in my home regardless of whose 'day' it is, and will have access to DS any time that she wants it, and that you permit.

2) By casting me in the light you have, you will one day have to accept the responsibility that you are doing to her, what your ex-husband did to her 3 years ago. I will always love that little girl, and I will never turn my back on her, no matter what she's been fed about me. I am deeply saddened that you seem intent on putting her through that pain again. It's bad enough that you've made a choice to destroy this family and marginalize the only man (including her father) who has ever been in her life that actually committed to raising her and loving her as a daughter.

3) Regarding respect: I have always respected you for who you are, you have always known this as well even from the very beginning. My Wife was a very open, honest, loving woman who had her problems (was often emotionally distant, unmotivated, liked to read a little too much) but when the times were good, they were great, and made all of the down times worth going through. Don't get me wrong, I take full responsibility for my half of the marriage as well, and know that I was by far not perfect.. but I always believed the good outweighed the bad.

My Wayward Wife has made the choice not to work on our marriage, completely emotionally disengage from her husband, lie, omit, and rationalize her behavior to family and friends, engage in a relationship with the son of her coworker in front of our children, remove them from their home, and remove them from their Father who consistently improved their lives, provided almost all of their daily needs, and who loved them and still does.

I love and respect my Wife. I do, however have very little respect for my Wayward Wife's decisions to so carelessly and thoughtlessly harm my family, my children, and me so that she can 'take the chance' on 'happiness' with someone else.


As a result of these things, I ask you not to carry on discussions about 'us' or you and Diana's son in front of our children, as these conversations would no doubt expose them to concepts and ideas that I do not want to expose our children to, despite them having to live with it in front of them every day right now. This 'friendship' as you call it isn't so special and unique as your emotions and 'happiness' are leading you to believe. It is in fact a very sinful and damaging emotional betrayal of your Husband, your family, your children, and your God.

Furthermore, until you have let this affair run its course, and have established no contact forever with your lover and the family that is enabling this affair, I do not feel any discussions about 'us' will be of any benefit other than to destroy what love I have left for you. I will do everything in my power to help you in every way to co-parent our son, and I will always be willing to treat matters concerning DSD the very same way. I believe it is important for both of them to know that there is a father and mother in their lives that love them very much, and provide for their needs. They are the innocent victims in all of this, and I only seek to protect them the best I can from the lasting pain of this decision.

One day, when the fog of this 'friendship' you have formed clears.. I am sure that you will be able to reflect upon our marriage and see that we have survived in good times and bad, for better or for worse, and only when we pulled together did we improve our situation. This is the first time that either of us in this relationship has unilaterally made a 'big' decision for the family. When we decide together, we have always enriched our lives. This choice has destroyed our family, and hurt us all.

You may have closed your door, but mine will remain open.

I have asked for the last month for you to reconsider. I will ask no more.. I also no longer wish or long for the marriage we had. I believe we both deserve a better marriage. The choice is yours as to whether you wish to persue that with the father of your children, the man who still holds the values you once at least claimed to hold above all others, and the one who committed his life to you... or you can persue that with someone else. This is your choice, and regardless of the things that I did in our marriage that made you feel lonely, ultimately you are going to have to bear the responsibility of what you have chosen to do, the responsibility of 'faking it' through the last 8 months and not reminding me when you still felt alone, and for the ultimate destruction of our family. This is not the choice I made.

The only favor I ask of you, is to remind our children daily that I do love them, and know that I do still love you. It's because of that love for my family that I choose to suffer the endless rejections and hateful looks, the lies, the total revision you've made of our married life, and still choose our family to be the one I have for the rest of my life. I've told you that I would die for you and our children.. believe me, this hurt I feel every day is worse than death.. and yet I suffer it for you.