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Where did I leave my can of Troll-B-Gone?

YMD: All I can add at this point is that you should think about encouraging your D to visit her psychiatrist. You mentioned earlier that she is on three different medications. Given her behavior and the trauma she's been through in the past week I think it would be a real good idea for her to talk to someone who can evaluate and adjust her medications.

The way she keeps going back and forth between OM and SIL, plus the abortion and getting dumped -- it could be more than she can take. Heck, that's more than just about anybody could take.


Trying to get by.
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Based on what you wrote, it seems that your D doesn't deserve your SIL at all and that he should move on and find someone who's as royal as he is. The sad part is that, even you, the mother of your own daughter, think so too deep down.

BUM advice, as usual.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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YMD, in addition to Jethros' advice, I would suggest that your SIL go into a REAL Plan B. That means that he sends her a letter outlining her path back and ending all contact until she complies with his conditions. This will have 2 benefits: a) it will protect him from growing to hate her by keeping him out of this sick love triangle and b) it will force her affair to crumble even faster when she doesn't have him around to catch her falling.

See, your SIL is meeting 3-4 needs and the OM is meeting 1-2 TOP NEEDS. In essence she is getting her needs by 2 men right now and as long as your SIL remains in the picture, this can go on forever. But with him GONE, it will become clear very quickly that the OM will not/cannot meet all her needs. He will NOT be able to rise to the occasion because he is a low down scum who does not care about her. That will become crystal clear very quickly. But your DD can tolerate his lack of caring as long as she can come to your sil at will.

So, he needs to do a serious Plan B and resolve to STAY DARK until she has absolutely ended her affair and is committed to working on the marriage. I think she is close to that point, but as long as she can keep your SIL under her control [because he allows her to come back without conditions whenever she wants] she will have no motivation to end her affair.

He needs to STAY DARK, though, until ALL his conditions are met and to not allow her to contact him in any way while in Plan B. Otherwise, he will lose all his credibility and thusly, all his LEVERAGE.

The first thing is to send her a letter telling her what she must to come back. She must end her affair and recommit to the marriage. He must be convinced that her affair is over and she is ready to come back.

A good letter is right here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897

And before he allows her back this time, he should COME HERE and talk to us. We can help him determine if she is really ready or not in order to prevent a very painful false recovery.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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You and your SIL need to plan B your DD immediately. Tell your SIL that now. No financial support either. Giver her a taste of what life without you and your SIL will be like. She'll come crawling back in a few weeks. However, she probably will try and negotiate down some of the plan B letter conditions. Don't go for it. Let her stew by herself a little longer until she's completely broken. I'd give her two months TOPS before she is completely at rock bottom.

Last edited by jmwc95; 11/04/07 10:02 PM.

Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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I've been following your situation and I agree with the others. As a mother going to Plan B, it's gonna hurt... but it'll be the most loving thing you can do for your daughter right now.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Any chance SIL can slap a "For Sale" sign in the front yard of the house. Even a "For Sale by Owner" sign.

He doesn't have to actually sell it (unless someone wants to pay him/them some outrageous price). I'm just interested in the shock DD may receive.

DD is running back and forth. Cake eating. IF SIL does a bang up Plan B, slaps up a For Sale Sign he just may convince DD that she can't cake eat anymore...she's GOT to make a choice and come home quick if SHE wants to save the marriage.

Crack addicts HATE crack...they just can't not do it. The pain of rock bottom eventually outweighs any and all benefits.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Received a phone call last night from one of my D's friends and she is also concerned for the welfare of my D. She says that D is saying that she has no friends and all she wants is the OM since she has given up so much. The OM has made contact with asking D how is she doing, but then will say it is over since he would never be able to trust her since she slept with her H. Don;t understand why he keeps making contact then.

Friend said she is very weak now and is attempting contact but has not heard back from the OM. Told friend that she can't love her H like she loves the OM and her marriage will never work.

I have not spoken to my SIL since he is taking a few days away from all this just to think. He is staying some where my D doesn't know about and his parents are staying at the house.

Thanks

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OUCH!!! I know that hurts. This is one of the many, many reasons IMHO adultery needs to be taken much more seriously by the courts, counselors, churches, etc. The addiction of adultery can motivate previously sane, compassionate people to say and do some downright crazy chit!

"Just recieve a phone call from D and she tells me she is going back to the OM and stay out of her life and not call her, the OM or SIL."

Well, the likelihood of THAT working out for very long is pretty darn small. She's trying to convince herself that the ONLY reason the OM has been trying to break up with her is because YOU were 'bothering' him and his parents. But the truth is that he has lots of other reasons he wants to end the adultery: reasons like never having planned on supporting your daughter in any way, emotionally or financially. And while it may be true that exposure to his parents caused lots of problems in the adultery, she will eventually have to face the truth that the OM never really planned on a committed future with her. He was just taking an opportunity to have some fun with her and now it's become anything but fun.

"She is a grown women and she can do what she wants and she wants the OM to put closure on things. What a bunch of crap, he took her to get an abortion."

IMHO the next time she asks her BH for anything: money, a place to crash for the night, a listening ear, she should be told she 'is a grown woman'. The OM can't possibly 'put closure' on anything? He's basically still a child himself who by now surely realizes this isn't fun for him anymore. He is most certainly going to continue to let her down.

"She said she is done with me and will have my phone numbers blocked from her phone and she will not talk to me ever again."

She is trying to white-knuckle herslef into pretending that all is going to be OK with OM in la-la-land. She KNOWS that you represent reality and sanity to her, which of course is a threat to her pretending that OM 'loves' her despite his despicable behavior. OK, so don't have any contact with her. The next time OM dumps her is will be more difficult for her to pretend that you caused OM to reject her. Maybe it will help her to see that OM is not planning on committment no matter what, that he was simply using your calling, exposing, objecting as a convenient excuse to blame you for his wanting to end the adultery.

"I can't do this anymore, I am so sick I can't stand it. The tears are flowing she doesn't care who she hurts or how bad."

Addictions are evil. But unlike other types of addiction, most adulteries do end even if the addict doesn't get special addiction-battling therapy. Because unlike other addictions to things like alcohol and drugs, the OP can and usually does choose to end it when the fun stops. It is obvious the fun has stopped in this adultery. Your daughter is in denial and wants desparately to return to the pre-exposure part of the adultery. She is blaming you and her husband for spoiling the adultery fun. But she will catch on that the OM is just not that interested in her anymore because he never really cared for her or loved her - he was just having some fun while it lasted.

"She said she tried to love her H yesterday and at church today and it didn't work."

She might really think she put in some major effort to do her part to save her marriage... or she may have been just going through the motions just so she could assure herself and others that she really tried, but her husband will never forgive and forget, that no matter how much she does he will never say it's good enough... That's a very common justification tactic.

All she is doing is dragging out the inevitable, giving this loser OM even more opportunity to do even greater harm, and alienating herself further from those who really do love her and care about her. This also is very typical adultery behavior. It's hard to watch but she apparently insists on making ALL the blunders before hitting rock bottom... sigh

What do her friends and other relatives say about all this?

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"Received a phone call last night from one of my D's friends and she is also concerned for the welfare of my D. She says that D is saying that she has no friends and all she wants is the OM since she has given up so much."

OK this answers the question I just posted regarding how her friends are reacting to all this. It sounds as if she is not getting the 'support' for the adultery that she wants from her friends either. That's a good thing. Even folks who normally wouldn't object much to adultery might object if they saw that the WS is acting like an addict, want the adulteyr and OP TOO MUCH.

"The OM has made contact with asking D how is she doing, but then will say it is over since he would never be able to trust her since she slept with her H. Don;t understand why he keeps making contact then."

Maybe he really does feel some sense of guilt over what he's done? Maybe he is just toying with her and gets a real ego boost from knowing a woman is so 'in love' with him that she would humiliate herself so? Maybe he is undecided - sometimes wants to see her but at other times knows that it won't work out? Maybe he wants to keep stringing her along just in case he changes his mind? Maybe he wants to end it BUT wants to pretend he's a nice guy so he calls to show 'concern' for how she's doing? Maybe he's hoping she will come up with enough money and a place to live so the two of them can get back together with her being desparate enough for his 'love' that she will finance it all? Who knows. It has nothing to do with his claim that he can't trust her because she slept with her husband though. He knew all along that she was a married woman PLUS he knew all along that she was untrustworthy because she slept with OM behind her husband's back; he's just using that as an excuse for dumping her.

"Friend said she is very weak now and is attempting contact but has not heard back from the OM."

Good, this might scare off the OM even faster. If she keeps it up he (or his mommy & daddy) might even get a restraining order to stop her from contacting them.

"Told friend that she can't love her H like she loves the OM and her marriage will never work."

She is in no position to make such a judgement until the adultery has been over for some time.

"I have not spoken to my SIL since he is taking a few days away from all this just to think. He is staying some where my D doesn't know about and his parents are staying at the house."

This is a very good idea IMHO, especially with his parents staying at his home so she can't go crash there.

Sometimes the WS behaves like a rebellious child and drags it out even longer with a 'you're not the boss of me' attitude because the people who love them try to warn them the adultery is wrong and doomed to fail. Hopefully at some point their desire to save face, or be 'right', will mean less to them than the love and respect of their BS and real friends/family.

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Daughter is in a very bad state. Hopefully she won't hurt herself.


ME BH 40 - FWW 39

Sons - 9 and 7

DDAY - March 18,2006

Married 10 years

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Well, D saw her couselor this morning and called H's parents at the martial home to find out where H is. Parents didn't tell her but she told them that she was with her couselor and couselor told her that in order to move on with all the things she wants to do with her life that she needs to get a D and the sooner the better.

I do not like this counselor. SIL called and asked what he should do, D is on her way to attorney and will have H served with papers.

Told SIL parents that she does not love her H like he loves her, and he deserves better. She is moving into an apartment with SIL sons mother from a previous relansionship. Jake is only 5 and has know my D since he was 2 months old. She has always had a good relansionship with Jakes mom and now they will be living together.

SIL needs to know should he just ignore this talk of D and give more time, or should he just go along and get a D. He is not sure what he wants at this time, but he will have to protect Jake and get an order to keep D away from his son.

D thinks that SIL will be ok with having her be around Jake everyday and that Jake will be fine.

Boy oh Boy.

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And the answer to this is....PLAN B!

I would also call up her counselor and tell him/her the TRUTH, and tell her to stop advising your DD to ruin her life.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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Agree! The counselor is operating on what your D has told her. She may have painted her M and H in a terrible light.

The counselor may not speak with you. However, you could send her the same information you have shared here, in a letter. Remember, her conversations with the counselor come from her deep fog and wayward thinking. GF


Marriages don't fail, people do. (And I don't recall who said it)
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Why would SIL's baby momma (for lack of a better term) take in your D???

Was she married to SIL when she got pregnant?

Did your D steal SIL from Jake's mom and now she can get even by providing her shelter?

Is Jake's mom have primary custody of Jake and now D will have more access to SIL's son than even SIL does???

If D files...SIL need do nothing but delay, delay, delay. IF the affair is over...she very likely will come around hopefully SIL will still be receptive to such when it happens.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
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SIL babys mamma was a high school prom date accident. SIL and D and Jake's mom have always gotten along. D did not steal SIL that was long over. SIL has joint custody and they have always shared cost and stuff.

I do not know who the couselor is that my D is going to. She will not tell anyone since we have had an issue with her from the beginning.

One mintue she wants a D the next she does not. I know that SIL will have put in the divorce papers that D not be around Jake and then she will have to move out. Telling D that is one thing, she doesn't think her H will do that.

I spoke to her and she said this has nothing to do with OM he has been out of the picture a whole week and a half with contact between. She says that she can't love her H like he loves her. I said were you not happy being with your H this weekend and she said no she was still depressed. I told her that she needs to find a new counselor that with all she has been through in this week and half that she shouldn't be making any life changing decisions. She of course said she is old enough to make her own decisions and since I want her to stay M she won't listen to me.

I will tell SIL to stall which he won't sign disolution papers anyway because now Jake is involved. Jake's mom thought since D was with her H all the time that they were trying to fix things.

SIL told daughter before she even signed the papers for an apartment he would see to it that she has on contact with his son, since divorce is traumatic for any child and he will not understand this. D says Jake will be find.

Just 2 days again D says she wanted to work on the marriage.

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She can't make a rational decision about wanted to stay married or trying until after several months of NC. If anything, I would continue to push NC and stall on the D. Also, call up the counselor and give him/her a piece of your mind. Give that counselor a bad review or and bad publicity you can if they ignore you or continue to advise your DD down this destructive path.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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I still think there's an excellent chance that D has not even talked to a C ... or at least is not relating accurately what the C said. Sounds too much like "fog-babble" rationalization/justification to be real.

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I agree with all of this. She just called me crying her eyes out because she spoke to her H. She went to the martial home and his parents had him come over. He told her that since she wanted a D that they could not talk after today and he would do what it takes to keep his son safe.
She wanted to know if they could at least be friends, she said I don't want to loose my best friend, he told her no that he couldn't stay friends that he had to move on with his life also.

I asked her if this was want to wanted and was she 100% sure and she said no. She also said he had only been changing the last 3 weeks and didn't think he could keep it up and she does not want to settle. I told her settle, she cheated with a looser and now she is settling for her H. I told her that her H would be fine and find somone who would be happy to settle for her H and then she cried and said did that to hurt her.

I spoke to SIL and he is not in a good place right now, he seems to think that maybe to much damage has been done, but he did say that he has to remember that mentally she is not stable, but he does have to protect his son and himself finacially.

I wish I could call this counselor but did not know who it is or where she is going. She said she has a list of things she wants to do and she can't do them married to H. I asked her what they were and she wouldn't tell me.

I told her that I am sure she is making a huge mistake and when it comes all crashing down on her that she will have no one to turn to because she is on a destruction path. She said that a year from now she knows she will deciede she had made a mistake.

Will this ever end. I give credit to all who have been through this because it is no walk in the park. I survived cancer with many chemo treatments and this is worse.

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She said that a year from now she knows she will deciede she had made a mistake.


This is a spiritual issue. She is saying that she knows what she needs to do, the right thing to do not only for herself but her family she just doesn't want to do it because it has limitation, guidelines, restrictions. She wants to go out and act in whatever immoral or other irresponsible way she wants without consequence even though she knows there will be consequences. She is rebelling against God, against reality, against everyone and everything that would be considered normal or just. The only thing that is holding her back is she still has a little fear that the consequences may outweigh the temporary and short term elation, joy, happiness she may get from doing "what she wants to do".

I would suggest that the BH file for D, sole custody of the son, child support, use of the marital home, and go plan B and then let her see the consequences in advance of the D happening. It may be enough to shake her out of the fog she is in. I would suggest that you try and get her into a church, and IC (she may need medication for imbalance, mental disorder, etc).

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I spoke to SIL and he is not in a good place right now, he seems to think that maybe to much damage has been done, ....

I thought that was where this was going. Sometimes we endure too much to forgive and I think your SIL is there NOW. My guess is your SIL is a proud guy and your D just rubbed his face in it way too much and he just can't take it anymore ... he simply has to salvage his self respect.

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