i completely agree

have you read mb concepts, read Surviving an Affair?

why not set a target for your own personal recovery instead
or on empowering yourself
or on learning to live life with or without your spouse?
focus on "you" for now

and do not get in touch nor believe on anything the ow says
she is set on destroying you

Actions:
In the first 2 weeks of moving out he has cooked us 3 crockpot dinners to put in the freezer.
He has gotten up at 5.30am in order to come and pick me up and take me to the airport.
He has invited me around for dinner numerous times.
My MC says this is wonderful and if she was my friend she would say to accept.
However as a MC, who knows his MC well (I have given permission to discuss MY situation) she is saying not to accept any more as they are driven by guilt.
This is so hard. I have had to graciously decline any help or 'gifts'.
I have snooped today concerning a birthday present he bought and bingo the whole $ amount on the Visa was for that one bracelet he gave to me. (Big $ amount and could have easily been for 2 lots of jewellery). The ladies selling it to him remember the event well. As I broke down into tears, admitting the snooping, the lady said that she was surprised about the separation as he was obviously in love with me.
Do these 'actions' count?
Have just ordered SAA but it has to be flown over here as not available in New Zealand. Hope they hurry. As you can tell I am impatient and able to make decisions quickly. H is very thoughtful to the point of procrastination. How on earth have we survived 20 years plus??
I have been thinking tonight and have made myself a promise and will promise you all too..... Give me 3 weeks of Plan A'ing from a respectful distance, allow me to keep you all informed, listen to the conversations we have (what you think is Bull S**t) and then I will reconsider my action plan. I have lots of Plan B letters to cut and paste over the next 3 weeks and would like to give my darling H the benefit of your doubt.
Believe me, I hope, again, to say "I told you so" and perhaps be a miracle case.
So 17th March is the day and this happens to be 2 days before our 20th anniversary. It should be only our 19th as a whole year has been stolen.
Goodnight and thanks.

Phoenix, glad to see you here posting!

Ralfie, I don't have much time to post right now, but I will later.

There is MUCH you do not yet understand about MB principles. I can see that in your posts. I will try to explain them better when I get back online this afternoon.

Please try to find a link here on this board to PLAN A, which describes the "Carrot and the Stick" parts of the Plan.

Plan B is after you have worked a solid Plan A (which I don't think you have really started yet & I'll explain why later)for weeks or months. Plan B is when you have lost just about all of your love and need to protect yourself from the emotional abuse of the WS.

Your husand is LYING to you. We have seen the same thing here over and over...almost the EXACT same wording he is giving you. There is NO GOOD reason for him to not come home NOW...other than the affair. Do NOT believe ANYTHING he is saying.

And no, those actions you listed DON'T count. They are pretty typical actions for a WS to keep cake-eating. He strings you along with "those" actions, while refusing to take the actions that MATTER...the 5 actions I listed above.

I am not trying to beat you up. But, sweetie, you are in major denial; and you NEED to snap out of it if you want to save your marriage.

And, if I were you, I'd fire your counselor and call the Harley's. Check out their credentials and how many marriages they have helped save. THEY are the experts in this field.

Ralfie,

Sorry, but I have to agree with the others on this. Waywards are so deceptive.

While my FWH was in the final months of his A, he was often tender and loving to the point that people commented on how his eyes lit up when I came in the room. When on business travel, he called me constantly.

Little did I know that he was either sneaking away from OW to make the calls when she was on the trip with him, or when she wasn't, he'd hang up from calling me and then immediately call her.

Your WH is lying to you big time, the affair isn't even close to over for him. He might be telling himself that it will end soon and then he will come home... he just needs a little more time, another fix of the affair drug. And so it continues........

Who

Well, glad you are still here. I was afraid you would change threads again when you didn't hear what you wanted to hear.

Three weeks is very reasonable. At least there is a time limit on his waffling. But I am afraid in three weeks time, there will be a different excuse.

In the meantime, stay in Plan A. You can also help your cause if you give him admiration and ask for his help in some things. Sounds like he is kind of a knight in shining armour kind of guy.

I would still wait on leaving your beautiful home until the OW is completely out of the picture and you have been in recovery for at leat a year.

I'm sure your husband DOES love you. It's just that he wants to keep both you and the OW.

And please don't let her pretend she is your friend.

Have no fear of the OW being my friend. That one is over albeit painful to lose perhaps the first BF I ever had.
I am listening to you all.
The three weeks is still my plan. I will keep reading up the posts, replying and reading the books.
I hate this stituation. The rug is completely pulled from under my feet for almost a year now. I just want my old H back, being happy together and honest. Our family is the 4 of us, not 3. If he were dead perhaps I would be over it more. (That is not a hint of murder.)
I am not giving up.

Nearly another day gone and I have spent it with the kids at their school camp. I am so disappointed with myself now. I feel that I can't hold my head high in the school community which I worked so hard to participate in. Instead of staying for dinner I snuck off home, crying all the way.
Why am I so attached to him? Why do I feel that in order to be me, my H has to be there for me? How do I get the old me back?
My DS is very supportive and seems gently protective towards me. I really hope that both children learn something good out of this morally, that will guide them in life later. It certainly doesn't help to have a blubbering mother who knows that she has to pull it together, but is not succeeding.
Well only 2 weeks and 6 days to go of my plan. I will promise to read up on Plan A and the carrot and stick part.
Time for dinner - for what it is worth.

How are you holding up, Ralfie?

Has WH agreed to send a no contact letter?

Just remember, you have done nothing wrong. The shame is on your husband. You can hold your head up high knowing that you are fighting for your marriage. It is hard at first, but you will get the hang of it. HIS affair is no reflection on you or your marriage but on him.

I had a horrible time at first, because all of my family knew before I did, our work knew, our friends and neighbors knew. But I held my head up high and took the high road. Now all of those people who felt sorry for me, admire the way I conducted myself.

Chin up, and hang in there.

We had a wonderful conversation over the phone last night and I told him that through all of this I REALLY love him. I asked how we were supposed to rekindle love when we are in separate houses. He was crying.
He suggested that he cancel some curtain order he has made for the rented house and that he hand in his notice. Takes 3 weeks here.
He had a miserable day as did I.
I feel we are really getting somewhere. I am really needing some romance and touch (!!!!) but know this is a bit of a way away yet.
I said that I only want him home for me. Now I am wondering if 3 weeks is too soon??????? I would hate for it to fall over and this pain start again.
Well this morning he asked, if I could, if I would go with him for the morning to his work. He drafts up cattle and sheep (for your hamburgers!). We had a lovely morning just chatting (nothing too heavy) and being together.
I texted him this afternoon and said that I was thinking of him. He replied with thanks for a lovely morning and he is thinking of me too.
He admits that the PA is over and the EA on the way out but it doesn't take him much to go back to square one. Surely the bounce out of square one is quicker each time. (I know what he is going through, having had a heavy 'crush' on somebody a few years ago, although never did anything about it. I was very down for 6 weeks). He hasn't written a NC letter but told me that he has told her that they have nothing to talk about and she doesn't need to contact him any more. She wanted to visit him to discuss it but he said NO. Yay.
So, all up, I am up and down. Had a big cry at work and apparently I look terrible.
I have a bit of a problem in that my DS has soccer and his game finishes 5 minutes before the OW's son's game starts. Do I try to get off work to take my DS? Do I let my H take him? Small town and of course the chances of bumping into her are high but do I do everything I can to prevent this? Or should I just chill out a bit.
I have been on my knees, praying to God, stars, universe, even the cat.
Two weeks and 5 days to go.
Thankyou for your concern, my two friends. I like talking to you as I know the gossip won't get tangled up and changed with others.

Good morning Ralfie,

Have you read Surviving an Affair? Have you read the articles on this site? If not, that should be a top priority.




This is GOOD! When my FWS was ready to come home, he still had 9-10 months on his condo lease. He made a commitment to never go there without me, then we packed all his things up, moved him home, notified the landlord, and he gave me all the keys. He pays on the lease...but utilities are shut off. It's just the way it goes when they made these stupid decisions in the first place.

If he wants out of his rental early...ENCOURAGE that.

You CANNOT work on your marriage very well when you live under separate roofs.



Then tell him that. Part of Plan A is demonstrating your willingness to meet HIS emotional needs. By letting him know that you miss his touch, you may fill his admiration need and hint at wanting to fulfill his se#ual fulfillment need.

Have you read Dr. Harley's Emotional Needs information?




The best chance of recovery is when he IS home.




This is great Plan A stuff. Keep this up.



Ask him to write a no contact letter (find one here first to look at). Tell him you want to see it and mail it yourself or together.

Everytime he talks, texts, emails, or sees her, he is back at day one of withdrawing from her. THAT is why NO CONTACT of ANY kind is essential.

Ask him to write the letter and to come home.



Does your husband know about your emotional affair?




This is all irrelevant. Only what he DOES matters. And...cheaters lie, liars lie. You cannot trust his words. Get that now.

Without writing the letter, he is keeping a door open to OW.




The emotional roller coaster is really a horrid ride. Hang in there.




YOUR husband needs to be doing everything to prevent the contact. That part is HIS responsibility. And if this is a common occurence, you will need to find a different league or sport for your children. Some people find it necessary to move. Remember, NO contact is essential.






I still see no reason for him to wait three weeks. What in the world is he "waiting" for. He is giving himself more opportunity to be involved with OW. This is very dangerous at the LEAST. Or just a big lie, and he'll have another excuse in a few weeks.

Wow SMB, I was wondering the same thing about the two weeks and five days. I see no reason other than continued contact with OW for him to not come home RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

I would be concerned that I was being gaslighted.

Who

I was told the exact same thing by more than a few people here about my FWS when he was feeding me his babble. So it's kinda easy to spot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You have given me hope SMB.
Surviving An Affair has been ordered but I have to wait for it to come from USA as it is not available in NZ (a crime for us over here!).
Yes read HNHN (at least that is available). Must read it again but will do the hint dropping. Previously our s*x life has been a bit grim but he has always (from 20 plus years ago) said that it is not important for him.
Yes he knows about my EA and po'd. I am pleased I had it as I am able to forgive and understand that much easier. Actually I never thought of it as an EA. Yuk. Was I a WS?
He came up with a plan for the soccer, but I think it is more of avoidance. We need to talk more about it.
As for the three weeks, that is my time limit for going into Plan B - kind of.
Have just spoken to my mother and she pointed out that if he comes home right now, he could easily slip into 'Eldest son' mode. I sure don't want that. I now feel that he needs to woo me. Is this right?

Ralfie,

Well if he is willing to meet all of your requirements for coming home now, there is no need to go to plan B.

Having him there with you is added insurance that NC is in place. Have you thought about what you will do if he comes home in 2 1/2 weeks and then you find out that there has been continued contact during that period?

Who

I wouldn't be too quick to believe that one. It is the number one need for MANY men, and in the top 3 for MOST men...if I remember correctly.

I think sometimes men say this because they don't want to hurt their wives feelings or pressure her or be misunderstood. But deep down, they know they NEED it. It's not just a want.


I'm confused. I thought the countdown was because he said he would come home in three weeks???

I doubt that you are ready for Plan B. This is not something to rush into, or you will find youself not able to maintain a dark Plan B. You really need to wait for the book to arrive and keep reading the articles here.

Has his affair been exposed? Family? Friends? Work?

Exposure is part of the Plan A. I wish I could figure out how to post a link to you for Plan A. I will look around and see if I can figure it out.

Is he willing to come home now?



No, I don't believe you can expect any wooing. Most WS's are in a fog and then go through withdrawal from the OP once they go no contact. You really need to read the articles to help you be prepared for what is ahead.

It is good to have support from your mother. But be very cautious about taking advice from people who are not familiar with MB. The plans to deal with infidelity are very non-intuitive...what you think you should do, often is the wrong thing. You cannot go on your feelings. You need to follow the plans outlined here. Take your time educating yourself so that you are prepared for the road ahead. It is a tough one, no matter what the outcome.

R,

It appears you are benefitting from moving over from Recovery. IMO the first thing you should be working on is completing the EN survey for you and for him (availalble on this site, no cost, no waiting). As soon as you can get him back, you should try to get him to do his EN survey for himself. IMO, while you are preparing him meals, your XBF is making ten times the deposits in his Love Bank by meeting his SF needs and whatever else he really wants.

You really seem like a wonderful, gentle person, much like many of the Kiwis I have met over the years here in the ME. However, if you want to stay married to the father of your children, IMO you would help the situation if you just follow the MB formula and forget about what you think is the right thing to do.

The MB principles are not intuitive, they are the opposite. That's why everyone is telling you to read the books, talk to the Harleys if you can work it out, and read everything on this website. You must establish some personal boundaries, get your WH back home, and establish NC even if that means moving your home but like everyone else, I believe you should not sell your home until you are back together. IMO again, the most important thing is getting WH away from XBFOW and establishing NC. That may require exposure of the A and you must be prepared to do this.

Everything that everyone is telling you is true. Your WH has an alien invading him, he's intoxicated, and addicted. Mrs. Hurt has told me this several times since we began R about her A.

Good luck again.

Thanks all,
The countdown was loosley based on the plaster cast coming off and something that I can find workable. Handing in notice on a rental takes 3 weeks too - coincidentally.
Yes the A is exposed to the world and the gossip mill is up and pumping.
I have read a lot of this site and Plan A. I suppose it is my interpretation and instinct that makes me alter it.
I wish the books would hurry up.
NC has been acheived. He is a very strong person once his mind is made up. He has gone cold turkey with both smoking and alcohol and knows what addiction is. As I have said before the NC had been done but is at the mercy of the OW - isn't it always? What is stopping Princess Piranha Face circling, calling anyway. She told me a week ago she wouldn't but she is untrustworthy. I must add that he was doing NC well since just before Christmas, knowing that she had called various times. It wasn't until she sent a particularly nasty text on Jan 20th that he replied to, finding out what she meant, that caused this breakdown. He often says that if she hadn't we would have so much further ahead. He knows that the alien is still present but he is trying very hard to suppress it.
I feel that the alien invading our marriage is leaving and he is walking on eggshells to avoid awakening it again.
I really miss him today and it took all I could, to not pop in after work for a hug. Do WH's like their BW to be needy? I am trying not LB by being needy but then it could have been one of my LBing behaviours - being so independent that took away his manliness. I can see many times where I overuled the roost.
He is seeing a councellor this afternoon and I hope he will ask for guidance. No doubt I will have to see mine on Monday.

R,

From my experience, until your WH moves home and begins complete NC, he will not begin to withdraw from his addiction. Dr. Harley says that everytime OW contacts him the addiction begins again. Isn't there someway for him to change his telephone number?

Only you can decide on your personal boundaries, but at a minimum I'd suggest the following:

1. Move home immediately
2. Verifiable NC. Take his phone away if he can't change the number.
3. Start MC with you with a C skilled in MB techniques.
4. Take the EN survey
5. Anything else you require to feel safe and protected again.

Only you can decide the consequences if he fails to respect you PBs and you shouldn't make threats but he should be aware that there will be consequences.

He needs to write a NC letter ASAP which you should read and approve before mailing but this can wait. At some point if he won't do it, you need to decide what the consequences are.

You aren't going to be able to make deposits in his Love Bank much until NC is established and he gets through withdrawal. In our case, it took about two months after Mrs. Hurt returned.

I really can relate to what you are going through because it was only four months ago for me. We aren't recovered yet but we are beginning the long process. Until you get WH home and in NC, you won't be able to begin R IMO.

The answer IMO is definitely no. You must be confident, not angry, and attractive.

Chin up.

The phone is a business phone and advertised number. It is essential for his business. We have caller display so know who has phoned and when.
Will see what he comes up with after seeing C.
He is tired of people telling him what to do....goes back years and him moving out was a major step in doing what HE felt needed to be done. Nobody has suggested that he do this, it is completely his idea and I think he feels empowered. If I tell him to move home, he will dig in his heels, but if I ask nicely and make it his idea somehow, I think that would be better.
We are going to have to change our relationship and I realise a lot of work is required. I did the EN questionnaire this afternoon and will take any opportunity for him to do it too. We are both familiar with HNHN and are able to talk based on that book. I agree with it being a good starting point.
Boy do I sound 'foggy'. 2 weeks and 4 days until I can try a perfect MB plan. Until then......
I find writing this like a diary is quite healing in itself and value the comments.