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As if I didn't write enough already, I wanted to add (or maybe reiterate):
I think most people think forgiveness is more than it is.
I think people are often so afraid that they won't forgive, like it is some secret thing they can't be sure they've really done, that they confuse it with other things.
The truth is, even if you've forgiven:
you will still trigger.
you should still have boundaries.
you may not yet trust your spouse (perhaps with good reason).
you will still remember the pain.
you should still require actions from your spouse to protect your marriage and you.
you still have a right to ask questions about the affair (and may need to choose to forgive new pieces of the affair puzzle)
you will still need to process all the emotions created from the affair (grief, sorrow, anger, dispair, etc.) Forgiveness doesn't magically make all the emotions disappear.
Last edited by sexymamabear; 03/27/08 01:50 PM.
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Excellent post SMB. You said it so well... exactly how "I" view forgiveness (for me personally as a Christian). Thanks for putting it so eloquently. I know MEDC wants this to be generic and I respect that. Just wanted you to know your words really spoke to me.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I am very proud of where you have gotten too...and so hopeful about where my two new friends are going. I pray for you both all the time and am so glad that I have witnessed such a turn around as your marriage. I appreciate your desire that this thread be helpful to everyone, regardless of their religious beliefs. And thanks for the prayers.
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I don't believe MEDC is trying to EXCLUDE how christians process forgiveness. It sounded to me as if he was trying to have everyone share HOW they forgave, what the actual process may be, practical tips on getting there, how we each define forgiveness. At least, that's how I read it.
I welcome all the thoughts y'all share.
And I think SMB made a very good point, in that some may think forgiveness to be more involved than it actually is.
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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Excellent post SMB. You said it so well... exactly how "I" view forgiveness (for me personally as a Christian). Thanks for putting it so eloquently. I know MEDC wants this to be generic and I respect that. Just wanted you to know your words really spoke to me. Thanks, PM.
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SMB, I really enjoyed your post and MEDC, I am not particularly religous myself but I didn't find it overbearing or inapplicable. I want to ask one thing related to this: I DID want him to suffer the natural consequences, however. But not to hurt him; but because I knew that those consequences would help to restore him to God and to his family, where he belonged and needed to be. You defined punishment in explicit detail but not natural consequences. You even said that it hurts you when he hurts over the guilt etc. of what he'd done. What things would you consider natural consequences? In an unrepentant WS, would things like these be considered natural consequences or a form of punishment: - loss/damage to relationships with children - loss/damage to relationships with friends and extended family - financial ruin due to affair-associated activities and expenses - loss or change (transfer) in employment due to exposure - guilt/shame for ruining the lives of their loved ones - guilt/shame for ruining the lives of their OP's loved ones - loss of integrity and other nobel characteristics once associated with them due to intensive lying required to have and maintain an affair - losing the respect of others All of the above can occur regardless of whether or not the WS is repentent. Though a BS may forgive the WS, other family members and friends may not, including children. Money spent is money gone. Debts incurred cannot be repaid with an apology. Job status, reputation and respect from others may never be regained. Yet all of these are also punishments in the sense that someone did this to them (i.e. boss fired or transfered them, coworkers and friends formed their own opionion etc.). I'm just confused is all. Can you help?
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Thanks FH...I will print that out and chew on it for a while...while reading other input...
ME 34
FWH 37
DS 11
DS 6
Married 7/97,
Dday (EA) 1/07
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I don't believe MEDC is trying to EXCLUDE how christians process forgiveness. It sounded to me as if he was trying to have everyone share HOW they forgave, what the actual process may be, practical tips on getting there, how we each define forgiveness. At least, that's how I read it.
I welcome all the thoughts y'all share.
And I think SMB made a very good point, in that some may think forgiveness to be more involved than it actually is. My goodness this forgiveness thing is terribly confusing LOL! And i agree that maybe i am thinking there is more to it than there actually is because i could say the same things that SMB said. I do not want my FWH to "suffer" or "hurt" because of his affair. So maybe i have forgiven him already, i just have not accepted things yet maybe.
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The truth is, even if you've forgiven:
you will still trigger.
you should still have boundaries.
you may not yet trust your spouse (perhaps with good reason).
you will still remember the pain.
you should still require actions from your spouse to protect your marriage and you.
you still have a right to ask questions about the affair (and may need to choose to forgive new pieces of the affair puzzle)
you will still need to process all the emotions created from the affair (grief, sorrow, anger, dispair, etc.) Forgiveness doesn't magically make all the emotions disappear. This is a very good post. I'll use myself as an example. My wife has forgiven me for my past neglect and dishonesty. However... she was up front with me that it would take her time to trust me again... and it has taken her time. It took her about 2.5 years to fully trust me. She still was occasionally "triggered", so to speak - one time especially when we looked at a nice house that we could not afford, and she told me she wished I had woken up sooner - because we'd have gotten our finances in order sooner and could perhaps have afforded that house. (Turns out, of course, that it was a good idea we were not able to afford that house, because that was at the peak of the housing bubble...) For some time, she would ask me questions about things in our past... she asked me about a job I'd lost, and I had to tell her the truth about why I'd lost it instead of repeating the lie I'd told her for years. Her forgiveness of me didn't mean I was off the hook for past bad behavior... and I never took it that way. I took it, rather, as confirmation that she was committed to our marriage and would not let past grudges get in the way of building a new future together. And I took the gift she gave me as a reason to not ever let her down again, not as a carte blanche to go back to the old ways.
Me: 41, INFP
Her: 46, ESFJ
Married 6/95
B-G Twins
4 yrs recovered from serious neglect on my part.
So happy together!
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You defined punishment in explicit detail but not natural consequences. You even said that it hurts you when he hurts over the guilt etc. of what he'd done. What things would you consider natural consequences? In an unrepentant WS, would things like these be considered natural consequences or a form of punishment:
- loss/damage to relationships with children
- loss/damage to relationships with friends and extended family
- financial ruin due to affair-associated activities and expenses
- loss or change (transfer) in employment due to exposure
- guilt/shame for ruining the lives of their loved ones
- guilt/shame for ruining the lives of their OP's loved ones
- loss of integrity and other nobel characteristics once associated with them due to intensive lying required to have and maintain an affair
- losing the respect of others
All of the above can occur regardless of whether or not the WS is repentent. Though a BS may forgive the WS, other family members and friends may not, including children. Money spent is money gone. Debts incurred cannot be repaid with an apology. Job status, reputation and respect from others may never be regained. Yet all of these are also punishments in the sense that someone did this to them (i.e. boss fired or transfered them, coworkers and friends formed their own opionion etc.). I'm just confused is all. Can you help? I would consider all those things you listed as natural consequences. Maybe this will help. I took a positive parenting class years ago. In that class we talked about types of discipline. One such discipline is natural consquences. These are things that NATURALLY happen because of the CHOICE the child made. For example, let's say the child threw a toyl The natural consequence might be that the toy broke. Then there are logical consequences. These are consequences the parent puts into place because of the bad behavior. When the child throws the toy, he might have to sit in time out, or lose the right to play with the toy, or even get a spanking. Those are all things that would not happen unless the parent put those consequences into place. Then there is punishment. Punishment are things a parent may do to HARM the child. If I rant and rage at the child, if I call the child hurtful names, if I beat the child...that is punishment. Punishment is meant to harm. Consequences are meant to teach. Do you see the difference there? Natural consequences NATURALLY happen, and sometimes don't always happen (the toy might not break when it is thrown). Logical consequences happen because someone in authority initiates the consequence because it is in the best interest of the child. Now, as a parent I may even get in the way of natural consequences. I may prevent something from happening that would naturally occur if I stayed uninvolved. Sometimes we do that as parents because we are protecting our children from injury. Our child plays in the pool when we have told them not to. They fall in and are drowning. We jump in and save them...rescue them from the natural consquences of their disobedient behavior. But sometimes we prevent a natural consequence that wouldn't harm a child physically. We get in the way of something they SHOULD experience so that they learn a valuable lesson. Well, we adults must face consequences, too. Some are natural consequences that naturally happen as a result of our choices and actions. Some are logical consequences that happen because of the boundaries others put into place because of our actions. I see exposure, loss of finances or job, broken relationships with children, loss of respect and friendships all as either natural or logical consequences to an affair. Punishment would be those actions we might take to HARM our WS. We might want to PUNISH them for all the hurt they have caused. Does that help at all??? ***edited to fix my quote, I hope.***
Last edited by sexymamabear; 03/27/08 02:48 PM.
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Thanks SMB. That helps a lot. Going back to punishment, I have imagined many things I could have done over the course of this to punish WSTBXH, but I've yet to do any of them. I didn't not do them because I forgave him but more because I felt doing so would be stooping to his level. On the other hand, I can't deny I'm looking forward for some of those natural consequences to occur - which can only be stopped now if he gets run over by a truck because he's borrowed more money than he could possible earn in a lifetime and pretty much tapped out all resources that were ever available to him. I realize this is rooted in anger and/or bitterness - perhaps this is where forgiveness could occur? (that is, if WSTBXH were actually remorseful)
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SMB,
Your post on forgiveness has probably helped me more than anything else I've read on forgiveness.
I was wondering if you could help me out.
I know the few times I thought I saw actual remorse in my H, I hurt for him too, like you did for your H. I have read where your husband broke down for like 3 days over his guilt and shame and seemed to start understanding what he did to you and your children. If I saw remorse like that in my H, I would hurt so bad for him and not want to punish him at all.
I think that I did try to punish my H with my words and anger, SOMETIMES, because I didn't think he even remotely comprehended what he had done to me. His actions and his words didn't show ME he understood. I stll don't think he does.
But what he thinks, feels and does, I can do nothing about.
Forgiveness has been on my mind an awful lot since the beginning of this whole mess. I forgave my husband once, about 5 months, after I found out about the first affair, and that one was with a woman he abandoned me and my kids for. I knew that I was still hurt by it, but I forgave him nonetheless. Then I found out about more affairs that he had kept from me our whole marriage. I haven't been able to get back to that forgiving place since then.
However, I do NOT want to spend the rest of my life an angry and bitter person towards him. And I am very much, right now, that person. I almost hate him for what he has put me through and what he is still putting me through.
I NEED to forgive because everyone says, most importantly God, that will help me heal and to be forgiven for my faults.
I've got to ask you SMB, can I just say the words, "I forgive you" and not still feel it in my heart and mind? If I "say" the words, will God then help me to actually "feel" it? Is it wrong of me to say it if I don't feel it?
You forgave immediately but I know that TST has let you get your anger out also. Right? How do you express the anger without punishing? It doesn't matter what I say, or how I express my anger, my H felt punished.
Can you please help me find peace? I don't want to die from the pain and anger I feel. I want to feel joy again and I believe this is key, even if my marriage doesn't make it.
I am at the end of myself. I cannot do this alone, without God. I alone, cannot forgive this much hurt.
Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.
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mopey,
I haven't posted to you much before. I sort of "do" forgiveness. It's something that I have lots of experience with. I don't know if I have told you my story or not, but I will give a brief version, and then give you a couple of things I know about forgiveness. Maybe one will help you.
I think I will break them into a couple of different posts, so in case the new board times out, I won't lose them.
My story is that I came out of a very difficult home. My father was physically abusive to me. He beat me quite frequently, and the only way I keep the events separated is because the family moved a lot and I recall the different homes they happened in.
One particular event that happened was a felony-level child abuse. The very next day, he beat me because I had bruises on my legs from the previous day's beating. (The first day's event actually was so severe that my younger brother was traumatized by witnessing it. So traumatized in fact, that he had a psychological break of some sort, and because he felt so helpless to stop it, internalized the event as though HE were the one to have been beaten, and later in life attempted suicide over this "triggering" event - twice. It was an quirk of a conversation with his wife and me that we discovered that he believed this beating happened to him, and we were finally able to unravel his psychiatric disorder.)
I was also the victim of rape/molestation as a child by another family member (not my father)over a number of years, and also by another person in another event as a child.
I went on to become a teenager who abused alcohol, and dated a young man who beat me. Big surprise, huh?
So, I had lots to forgive. Forgive??????????
What??????????
People just don't forgive rape, child abuse, molestation, assault.
Or do they?
SB
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Here is one thought on forgiveness:
Anger kept me stuck. I was so angry with my father for beating me. I lashed out at any perceived attack at me. Anyone who criticized the least little thing about me was met with a huge defensive response of venomous hatred.
Oh, I had a pot of anger alright. This boiling cauldron of anger in my mind. I dipped into that pot whenever it was needed. It was there, because I fed it well. I was plenty angry because I had been a child whose father was not protecting me from an abuser, who himself was dangerous and unpredictable. I was only responding to meet fire with fire. And I made sure that ANY tiny little spark aimed at me was met with the fire from that boiling cauldron of anger - more like hot lava direct from a vocano.
But then I got married. And I learned that this was not working with my new husband. He was not like the men I knew before. He was different.
And then came "THE" fight. It was over some laundry. He said something, and I came unglued!!!! He just stood there and looked at me, oddly, not sure what had happened. He said, "SB, I'm fighting about the laundry. I don't KNOW what YOU'RE fighting about, but it ISN'T the laundry!"
Truer words were never spoken.
I called a rape crisis hotline that night. About 12 or something years after the rape. The lady talked to me, and it made a difference. We talked about the cauldron of anger.
After that, I stopped dipping into that cauldron, and realized that the cauldron didn't need to be used for every single thing in my life. It only applied to those things - the rape or the beating. That's all.
And that at some point, those things had to be put in the past.
Because to do otherwise was to stay in that cauldron and boil myself.
I actually was in the cauldron. It kept me right there, in the moment of the trauma. The anger fed me, and somehow, I fed it.
How to get out?
I had to recognize that somewhere, somehow, those perpetrators were broken people.
I had to recognize they were worse off than I was. They were truly worthy of pity.
I had to come to understand their brokenness. If I didn't, I would allow myself to stay in the cauldron of my own anger
and become them.
Understand their brokenness.
We are all broken. Some more than others. I am more broken than some, less broken than others.
They were more broken than I was - by a long shot. I was only hurting myself. They were hurting themselves and others.
Broken.
Once I recognized that, I began to pity them. It wasn't long before I understood that under God's eyes, they were pitiful, broken, sad, hollow shells of men.
It was easy then to leave them behind, to forgive them. Because it was then that I understood their earthly condemnation. They lie awake at night, and know that in their own core of themselves, they are empty. So empty, that they cannot bring themselves to even ask my forgiveness, even though they know they need it to begin to crawl out of the hole they live in.
I forgave them.
And the next miracle happened for me. That cauldron of anger?
It was just
gone.
The world was a wholly new place. A huge relief. I can tell you the place and time. Things were different for me. Clearly different - in look, smell, sound, and feel.
Reborn - not because I received.
But because I GAVE forgiveness.
Truly the gift you give yourself.
SB
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Schoolbus, I hope God blesses you for posting to me. My story is that I came out of a very difficult home. My father was physically abusive to me. Me too, my father physically abused me, my siblings, and my mother. He also molested me once when I was 5. He also tried to molest my best friend a few years later. I had forgiven him in my heart awhile back when I realized that he was probably abused himself. I don't condone what he did, and I still hurt over what he did. He died when I was 11 and of course no apologies for any of the abuse ever came. It was a relief when he died. It was that bad. I have always mourned the loss of a decent father. I never had any substitute fathers either. I don't know, maybe I haven't forgiven because I still get upset when I think of what he took from us. If he were alive today, I would just not want to have anythinbg to do with him if he didn't seriously try to make amends. How did you come to a place of forgiveness in your life, over your abuse Schoolbus?
Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.
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Ah, Schoolbus, I didn't see your last post before I posted mine. I will read it thoroughly and think on it.
Thank you.
Last edited by mopey; 03/27/08 07:18 PM.
Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.
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Thoughts on forgiveness:
I think about forgiving and I wonder why it is so hard to forgive some people, and so easy to forgive others.
Every day, we forgive people who cheat on their taxes, for example. We forgive people who cut in line in front of us at the store, run into the back of our car with their pickup truck, steal the morning paper off our lawn.
We let people out of prison for crimes such as assault or rape.
Many crime victimes forgive the perpetrators.
We forgive debts.
I have seen people who were enemies for years come to terms and begin talking again. They forgive and forget and move on.
Countries who have been at war, having killed thousands of one another's citizens, ultimately reconcile and normalize relations.
I have seen stories on the news of death row murderers receiving forgiveness from the families of their victims. Some family members will even ask the judges to take the death sentence off the table, as they have forgiven the criminal.
I look at examples like this and wonder why it is then that we would look at someone we are married to (or were married to), and we would not extend the same consideration of forgiveness? This is a person we know and love. Worthy of at least the same consideration of a stranger on the street.
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Finally,
I sort of see forgiveness as a process, not a single event. It creeps up on you and then POW! there it is.
Relief!
That moment when you see it in front of you is wonderful!
But it has been unfolding, over time. You've been working on it, really.
Sort of like a flower blooming. At first it is tightly wound, and there is no sign of color. Slowly the color starts to creep in from the base, and the bud starts to unfold. Ultimately, the bloom bursts forth in a blaze of color and glory and beauty for all to see.
So it is with forgiveness. You didn't notice the bud on the rose bush yesterday, but you walk out there in this morning and
ahhhhhhhhh - LOOOKKKK
How beautiful that gift is to your eyes this fine day!
Schoolbus
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Hey MEDC!
I thank you for this topic, as I understand why you posted it. I started a thread back in August during our false recovery on this very topic.
Forgiveness is an act or attitude, IMHO, that I CHOOSE. I chose to forgive my husband, I think, immediately. Or, at least, after the initial shock wore off. Why did I forgive? Because I knew I could never restore my marriage without forgiveness. I could never have what I was working so hard to fight for, if I did not forgive. Without my forgiveness, our marriage was doomed...no matter what my FWS was willing to do for me.
So, what is forgiveness and how do I know I have done it? I believe forgiveness means removing the PUNISHMENT for the offense (not to be confused with consequences). What is the punishment for infidelity? Well, my religion must come in here. The punishment for sin is death? Should my FWS receive death? Should he receive the same betrayal and abandonment I suffered? Should he be so beaten down that he no longer feels worthy of love and forgiveness?
All those things would be punishment. How do I know I have forgiven my FWS? Because I do not want him to receive the appropriate punishment for his betrayal and abandonment. Because I do not feel pleasure or justification when he is agonizing over the damage he caused to me and our children. In fact, I hurt FOR him when he is overwhelmed with his grief, guilt and shame. That is how I know I have forgiven him.
But the truth is I forgave him before he wanted it. I did not ever desire him to receive the appropriate punishment for his betrayal.
I DID want him to suffer the natural consequences, however. But not to hurt him; but because I knew that those consequences would help to restore him to God and to his family, where he belonged and needed to be.
MEDC, I find it incredibly difficult to have this conversation without it centering around my spiritual faith, although I AM trying.
You see, I KNOW that I could NOT forgive this offense without God's supernatural happening inside of me. This is all way too big for me.
I NEED God to:
help me forgive
heal my wounds
restore my marriage
unite us again in body and spirit
This IS ALL supernatural. How can I remove God from this discussion????
I remember last summer being worried that I would forgive "too quickly" because I am a forgiving person. I sought God's guidance in the question of WHEN to forgive. Here is a cut and paste of my post back in August. I agree with my statement even more today. We watched THE PASSION on Easter, and it reminded me of this.
I didn’t want to forgive my husband for his infidelity before it was the “right time”. Fearing that I might too quickly forgive my husband before he is “deserving”, I prayed that God would show me when the right time would be. God immediately spoke audibly to me the verse, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." The he said it to me again a little differently: "Forgive him, SMB, for he knows not what he has done."
I felt overwhelmed as I considered Jesus’ great suffering. It must have been an emotional suffering as well as a physical one. How did Jesus forgive and when? It appears to me that, Jesus, being consumed with love for those who persecuted Him, offered complete forgiveness with the hope that those same people would be restored to His Father in Heaven. He forgave immediately, in the midst of His agony, when His suffering was the greatest. He didn't wait "x" amount of months; he didn't wait to see remorse/repentance, he didn't wait for any action or words from the offender. He offered forgiveness immediately WHILE he suffered. He asked his Father to forgive them as he sacrificed himself to save them.
Today, MEDC, I see this as true. FWS DIDN'T know what he had done. He could not yet comprehend what destruction he was causing...to those he loved most. And those that crusified Jesus, could not yet comprehend what their actions meant.
THAT did NOT stop Jesus from forgiving them while he was at his GREATEST suffering.
So this is the IDEAL. But we all know that forgiveness can be challenging. We may have to CHOOSE to forgive every single day. We may have days where we do not FEEL like forgiving. I think early on, some BS's have to make a daily choice to have an attitude of forgiveness, but must be patient with themselves when the triggers bring on the immense hurt or anger. Over time, forgiveness will get easier and eventually be a non-issue...as long as we are seeking to be forgiving.
But we complicate forgiveness, thinking it is more than it is. In my book, it is removing the appropriate punishment...or the desire for the appropriate punishment to be divvied out.
It is NOT:
removal of natural consequences
forgetting the offense
pretending everything is restored
refusing to process the emotions that resulted from the infidelity (hurt, anger, sorrow, grief)
trusting without reason
I know that Dr. H talks about just compensation. I think this is a great concept, which I understand better now that I have witnessed it from my FWS. He has offered a great deal of just compensation, ranging from steps to protect our marriage to a post nup agreement that gives me the cash value of his business.
But my forgiveness is NOT dependent on his just compensation. There is nothing he can do to DESERVE my forgiveness. It is there only because I CHOOSE it to be.
BUT his just compensation DOES help restore my trust in him. It does make me feel safe in our marriage again. It does rebuild the relationship that was devastated. It does demonstrate to me his commitment to be my husband forever.
My personal belief is that forgiveness is GIVEN, not earned. It is an choice the BS makes for no reason other than it is right. Without it, marriages cannot be restored. With it, all things are possible. No matter what our FWS do, without our forgiveness, our marriages are doomed.
I know I have forgiven because I do not want my FWS to receive his "just reward" for this betrayal and abandonment. To me, that's is the only thing forgiveness is about.
But forgiveness opens to door to a lot of other wonderful things...restored relationships, peace and joy. ********************edit******************
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I had to recognize that somewhere, somehow, those perpetrators were broken people.
I had to recognize they were worse off than I was. They were truly worthy of pity.
I had to come to understand their brokenness. If I didn't, I would allow myself to stay in the cauldron of my own anger
and become them.
Understand their brokenness.
We are all broken. Some more than others. I am more broken than some, less broken than others.
They were more broken than I was - by a long shot. I was only hurting myself. They were hurting themselves and others.
Broken.
Once I recognized that, I began to pity them. It wasn't long before I understood that under God's eyes, they were pitiful, broken, sad, hollow shells of men.
It was easy then to leave them behind, to forgive them. Because it was then that I understood their earthly condemnation. They lie awake at night, and know that in their own core of themselves, they are empty. So empty, that they cannot bring themselves to even ask my forgiveness, even though they know they need it to begin to crawl out of the hole they live in. Yes, I came to that place some time ago regarding my father, when I realized that he was probably abused too. I felt a lot of my anger go after that. You know, it's funny because I am not exactly sure when that happened. I just know that it did. It was probably during one of my counseling sessions that I've had on and off for years. I just KNOW I did come to that place. I'm glad to know that too, because my husband has accused me of being so angry with him because of my past anger with my father. That in itself, ticks me off. I honestly feel like my husband tries to pass the buck to my father, and the man that date raped me, when I am upset with him. He has done this. I did have those "fights" with my husband too. But it wasn't because of my dad, I guarantee you. My husband has been neglecting and cheating on me, and gaslighting me, since I've known him. I think my abusive background made it easier for me to accept his neglect. And since my husband's abuse is "emotional", he always got away with it by throwing it back on me if I got "verbal" about it. I do know where I learned to express my anger though, and that was from my parents. They both yelled when really upset. So does my husband, and so did his dad. Actually, my husband and his dad kept their anger in, until it erupted like a volcano. I expressed my anger with my husband when I felt it. My husband says he's learning in counseling that he was emotionally abused as a child, and I think he has quite a bit of resentment towards both of his parents. I am just now starting to get over the resentment I felt towards my mother, but I am feeling the same way about her as I did my dad. My counselor suggested to me just last week that she may have been abused too. Why else would she have taken so much abuse from my father? I don't know, I need to start asking her before she leaves me too.
Last edited by mopey; 03/27/08 07:45 PM. Reason: spelling
Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.
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