SunflowerSmile - not at all. But I will say that in the "order of preference" regarding choices in behavior and responses, I would, and do, put God's Word ahead of any and all "other" advice.

For believers, the reality is 2 Timothy 2:11-16 and 2 Timothy 3:16.

Consider Nathan. He presented David's sin to David.

David recognized his sin with Bathsheba for what it was, as sin against God, and he immediately repented.

No "Plan A," just conviction, repentance, confession, forgiveness (by God), and consequences that were imposed and that attended him for the rest of his life. But he was not without blessing either. Solomon was born to David and Bathsheba.

Jesus' primary commands to all believers:

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind."

"Love your neighbor as yourself."


What I am saying is very simple. "Plan A" is good with respect to changes that any person might need to make within themselves. "Plan A" does NOT end an affair. "Plan A" changes, meeting a spouse's needs, works for Recovery, not for ending an affair. Attempting to use meeting EN's while the spouse is NOT considering recovery, while they are adamantly involved in an affair, is futile.

Exposure, loving confrontation regarding sin and the need for repentance, etc. IS what destabilizes and ends affairs. THEN, and only then, will the WS begin to see and appreciate "plan A" changes and begin to be receptive to having their EN's met by their spouse. Meeting "some" EN's while the spouse is actively in an affair is merely enabling them, allowing them to "sit on the fence" and "cakewalk."

Precipitating a CRISIS is what is needed. No crisis, no need to CHOOSE. That is what I am saying.

God grants the Faithful Spouse the RIGHT to a divorce, not because God "likes" divorce (He hates all divorce), but because He loves the Faithful Spouse and will not have that spouse tied to someone who is choosing to walk AWAY from God. IF the spouse repents, then forgiveness is the command, and restoration is the possibility. Without repentance, neither is possible.


IF klb wants to have her husband over for dinner, I think she is asking for more trouble AT THIS TIME. He is wanting to "cakewalk" and have his mistress and his children, all the while pissing on his WIFE.

From Will Rogers:
There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

"Thanks, but no thanks." Love must be TOUGH sometimes.

Do you "love your neighbor" (spouse) by direct or indirect "acceptance" that obedience to God is "optional" as each person "sees fit" in order to do whatever they want to do?

Do you "love God" by being willfully disobedient and engaging in willful sin?

When he ends the affair, and BEFORE he might be allowed to move back home, THAT would be the time for a "dinner" when he will be truly repentant and able to face his children is humbleness as the servant God intends him to be. Until then, no appearance that the "ways of man" seem right and God can be ignored whenever we "feel like it."


God bless.

Since you are going ahead with the dinner, may I suggest you read through all the pages in the link in my sig. line?

You may find some stuff that is both applicable and helpful to you during this time.

God bless.

KL,


I am a FWH who saw a strong, beautiful and courageous woman(SMB) all because of God's hand and a good PlanA. I was also planA'ed from a distance, and it worked!

PlanA can and does work... My Recovering marriage is proof. And I have a Merciful God a SexyMamaBear and a MB'ers to thank for that.

Plan the plan and stick to that plan!

Good luck and may God Bless You.

Its probably a lie. He is not there because it is unpleasant, kb. I would STOP talking to him about this for NOW.



Good! Make sure the house looks wonderful and inviting and look your best. This will probably be his last time in your house so make it ATTRACTIVE. He needs to REMEMBER IT THAT WAY when you go dark.



ok, kb. He is only coming for dinner. That is ALL. Don't read anything into this that is not there. His affair is NOT OVER.

I think it is important to understand that you are nowhere NEAR ready for recovery. First, his affair has to end, and there is no indication he will end his affair.


Don't do that. That is for recovery. You will push him away if you try to educate him or push him into recovery tactics when he is nowhere near there.

kb, your focus should be on being PLEASANT and ATTRACTIVE, avoiding ALL relationship talk. That only brings about FIGHTS because it is a lovebuster to try and educate him when he is committed to his AFFAIR. you have to bring the horse to the water FIRST before he will drink. He is not even within view of the lake yet.

So, slow down. Let's be strategic here.


Does he enjoy being around the children? Plan this evening so that he has lots of PLEASANT TIME with you. If the kids annoy him, or get rowdy, then make arrangements to have some neighborhood kid come over and take them to the park.


Don't talk about it at all. You can't negotiate with a terrorist. Just tell him that all of that has to be worked out with the lawyers and you are sure sorry, but you have been told not to even discuss it. Then change the subject.

Is he handy around the house? Does he like to fix things?

Also, did you see my ?? about the OW? Who is she? Have you exposed to her parents?

kb, another thing I thought of is timing some more key exposures to occur just after you have gone dark in plan B. They will cause conflict in the affair and since you won't be around to yell at, they will only each other to lovebust.

Some key exposures would be to the OW parents, family members. It would also be helpful if your pastor contacted your H for his "discussion" after you go dark.

Is this a workplace affair?

Yes, I agree and thank you I need to slow down my heart and mind have been racing and I know that he has not ended the affair, but I disagree a little with the he's not there because it is unpleasant. I think that he is there because he feels he has no other place to really go, and that he wants it to be good, but not that it really is good.

As for the OW, I know her name, and yes it was a workplace affair from which my WH got fired and she retained her job in exchange for selling him out! Go figure he wants a woman who would sell him out to save her job. WOW! I don't know anything about her other than she is about 5'7" long curly auburn hair skinny and has tattoos. I know that she has a child don't know how old, but do know that doesn't reside with her or at least that is what I am told. I don't know where she is from or who her parents are, and I am going to guess that they aren't too local.

As for exposure, I really don't understand what I should tell people, I have told his parents, his aunt, my parents, our close church friends, and his childhood best friend and wife (who have become mutual close friends), but other than that I have not had contact with anyone, and I don't know what I should say or should have said other than he is having an adulterous affair and is no longer living at home, he has chosen to live with her. I haven't even talked to his brother or anyone else. Should I? What should I really be telling people?

FH thank you for the link, I need to spend some more time really reading there. I love motivational stories and quotes like that.

I want to have a plan, but I feel so confused and like I am bumbling around. When he and I talk during the day when he is away from her, he is sorry for the mess he has made, and talks with calmness, courtesy and respect, but then when he calls after he has been with her on anygiven day/time, then he is renewed in his sin and is so evil!

So I guess for the time being I need to just be "On my A game" showing him that I mean what I say to him on the phone that I love him and am committed to our marriage and family 100%. I need to get to work cleaning!! The children and I have been working on getting ready for a yard sale, so there are boxes and stuff out all over!! We need to clean out, the kids have just been junk collecting for the past three years as we have been just living day to day, and we decided that it was time to clean out, clean up and totally have a fresh start!!!

Thank you all....

oh ok, so if you asked him to end his affair and come home, he would do it? kb, I hate to say it, but I don't think you have a realistic view of his feelings for the OW. A person does not have an affair and lose his whole family because he has TEPID feelings for his affair partner. Otherwise, they would just end the affair and rid themselves of the associated problems. Your H is INFATUATED with her. You can ask him all you want, but he is not going to be honest about his feelings. That is like asking an falling down drunk how they feel about booze.



You should give them the facts and then ASK FOR THEIR ADVICE. When you do that, they tend to BUY IN and want to help you. It is helpful when they have a TALK with your WS.

klb, I know Melody might be sounding a little "harsh" to you, but listen to what she is saying. She is telling you the truth and you are still filtering these things through "wishful thinking lenses."

Your husband, no matter what he says, is coming to dinner for one reason and one reason only....to get a "fix" for something that is "bothering him," namely being totally selfish, neglectful, and self-centered....the opposite of being a father and husband.

His "physical presence" is NOT what you or the children need right now. What you all need is your husband and father, not the alien that lives within his skin. He may "look like" your husband, but underneath he is not. He may "sound like" your husband from time to time, but underneath he is not. You need to be "forewarned" so that you are not taken in by "fake remorse" of the "I'm sorry for all the pain I'm causing you but I've gotta do what I want to do" sort.

DO use this time to be pleasant, and in case anything should deteoriate, REMEMBER the word of God concerning righteous anger over sin and sinful behavior: "Be angry, BUT in your anger, DO NOT also sin." Don't return "evil for evil," be the "Proverbs 31" wife....you can bet the OW has NO CLUE what that means.....but you do. Live it.

DO NOT use THIS occasion to try to give your husband anything to "educate him." That comes later, after he has decided to end the affair and attempt recovery....because he really won't know "how to" do anything. We'll talk more about that when the time comes.

God bless.

As hard as that all is to hear I know that you are all right. I am still looking through those rose colored glasses. I know that he is still the ugly alien H. I just so want to show him that I am a beautiful, good, honest, hardworking, committed woman. I know that tomorrow will not be the end of the affair, although that would be wonderful. I am in touch with reality enough to know that.
So, that being said what do I talk about? He is a total stranger to me. Am I supposed to just make small talk, should I ask certain questions? What about the children, how should I prepare them for this they are both scared and apprehensive about seeing him and getting hurt yet again, they were finally sleeping through the night and no more crying and asking for him all the time. What should they be doing? Should he spend his time playing with them or should I have their babysitter come up and take them to the park? How long should this "visit/dinner" last?
Should I hug him when he goes? Should I have another adult here to mediate? That is what has been protocol on the other occasions that he and I have talked or the one time he visited the children.
HELP? I guess I am nervous and there seems to be a lot riding on this visit going well. I don't want to mess it up any further

kb, YOU know him the best, so you tell us what you could do to make his visit the MOST PLEASANT.

kb, lets discuss putting together a strategic plan. Here are my thoughts.

1. do a stellar Plan A for the next 10 days.

2. Go into Plan B on Saturday, May 24th, hopefully after a nice visit with the kids

3. Time key exposures 2 weeks later, ie: have pastor speak to him and expose to any remaining person

Tonight, I would bring up visitation schedules and tell him you want the kids to see him regularly. Ask him if he would like to pick up the kids for visitation on perhaps Wednesday nights and every other Saturday for a few hours. [make it clear the children cannot be exposed to his adulterous affair]

In fact, pull up a calendar on your computer right now and type in your suggested visitation days and times. That way you can print it up, hand to him and ask him if he agrees. Then you could make any changes together.

This way, the visitation thing will be out of the way and it will be one less thing that has to be discussed with an intermediary in Plan B.

ALSO: do not tell him you plan on doing this. This separation in Plan B should come as a complete surprise. He should never know the term, "plan B."

What do you think?

klb, there is nothing for YOU to "mess up." He has done that all by himself. Do not accept the premise behind any sort of "blameshifting." This may sound a bit harsh, but please understand the truth behind it: There is NOTHING so "bad" about a marriage that "justifies" adultery. Period. This is all due to HIS choices, especially his choice to tell God to "shove it, he's going to do what he wants to do regardless of what Jesus endured for him."

What do you tell the kids? Just that their father will be coming to dinner. Do NOT tell them to "fake it," just tell them to offer him their love and their wish that he loved them more.

Let your comfort come from knowing that there is truth in "out of the mouths of babes."

Be prepared that they will likely be "upset" and you will have to deal with behavioral problems after he leaves. Love them, comfort them, tell them about Jesus' love for them and that Jesus will NEVER leave them. Them to pray for Daddy, that he will listen to Jesus.

Then prepare yourself for not allowing his selfishness to further hurt the children or yourself if he remains unrepentant.

If he should feel conviction and repentance, tell him that there are MANY believers who have been through this nightmare who stand ready to help him through it just as others helped them through similar recovery efforts.

If he'd like that help, THEN, and only then, can you offer him some "Stuff."

God bless.

kb, this should be the ONLY TIME his affair ever comes up tonight, ok? You don't want to get dragged into affair talk, because that will take VALUABLE FOCUS away from your wonderful family and pleasant atmosphere. Do you understand? Only focus on GOOD THINGS ABOUT YOU.

Don't ask him about his feelings about her, for example. Don't let that come up. Because it needs to BE ALL ABOUT YOU! NOT HER! Got dat?

Can you bring up the issue of him not bringing your kids around the wh*re without it being unpleasant? If you don't think you can, then don't even bring this up tonight. Let your attorney work out visitation himself.

Okay, well I just got back from church, and I had an opportunity to talk to my pastor. He asked for the website to be able to check out the plans, because I briefly discussed with him Plan A and how I want to let him see how much he is loved and wanted, but that he has to change and want it to happen and also repent and return his life to the Lord. I still believe that this can happen, I believe in miracles and I believe that my husband and I once had something really special, but I do realize that he is not currently that person. I still want to believe and have love, I really don't want to get hard like so many of my family is. I know what my WH is and has done is disgusting and horrible, and he is responsible for his sin and actions.
However, I have learned alot from the questionaires about my failings and my shortcomings in loving my H the way that he needed, I became complacent and self-centered in my sickness and pain. I am trying hard to grow and change emotionally and spiritually. I want to be a new, confident, Godly woman, I believe that I am now I just have to continue changing and living in the changes that I have made. The one area that I fear that I have a lot of growing and forgiving to address is, if he does not truly change and is in the area of our children. I am still protecting and not comfortable at all with the visitation subject. WH has been too eager to introduce OW to the children, and I don't trust that he won't do that if he takes the children without supervision, and the children are afraid of him because of all the lies he has told them and confessed to and also the fact that he has such a temper and inablility to connect emotionally with them. I know that he can change if he will allow the Holy Spirit's leading. I just pray that the Holy Spirit will continue to burden him and that the scales will fall from his eyes and that he will be able to see. That is my prayer. I pray that tomorrow when he comes he that he will have his eyes open and truly be able to see me and the children and the love and goodness in us.

Ask your pastor to ask questions if he has a hard time with any of this stuff. Dr Harley has stated that he himself is a Christian and I can make a very good case for Plan A and even Plan B being extremely biblical in their basis. In fact, Plan A and B are how God deals with us to show us His love and to make us fall in love with Him all over again.

Mark

kb, his eyes won't be open tomorrow night, he has scales on his eyes. He is totally immersed right now in his own sin. So, please lets stay focused on HOW THINGS ARE rather than how we WISH THEY COULD BE and plan accordingly. If we deal in wishes, instead of reality, it impairs your ability to fight this affair.


Then by ALL MEANS you should not even broach the visitation subject. Let your lawyer work this all out in a way that protects the children.

Can you tell me what state you are in? The laws are different in each state.

I don't post often, but please please please follow MelodyLane's advice. I was not in an affair situation, but my husband left and ML gave me very similar advice. It worked wonders. He didn't fear coming around, because I was pleasant, he knew he wasn't going to get LB'd or DJ'd and it got to the point where he wanted to come home. Memorize the highlighted portion, seriously. I pray your dinner goes well.

Too much information to say PLEASE do the above.

We are in Pennsylvania.