Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by introvert
If what i did is just as bad as what WW did, why would she (a professional) call it a "non-issue"? Just asking.

Don't be so quick to to assume everything she says is spot-on, I don't care WHO he/she is.

During my first attempt at MC, when we were there due to "my insecurity, paranoia, and jealously ruining our marriage" our counselor said something I could not believe.

We had been discussing the possibility of her having an affair. I had no specific reason to be suspicious, no evidence...I really thought I was being an unreasonable jerk.

He looked me in the eye and said, "So tell me...if your wife really was having an affair, would it kill anyone?"

After I picked up my lower jaw, I told him, "Yes, as a matter of fact, it probably would cause some death".

We didn't see him again.

Did I mention that this occurred almost exactly at the midpoint of my wife's 3.5 year long affair?

Take anything ANY professional tells you with a grain of salt.

I had a simlar experience with our MC. She sat there and pretty much berated (sp) me when I was trying to get more truth out of WW during the session. She pointed at WW (when she was putting on her crying performance) and said, "does she not look like she's been through enough, and that she's being hinest with you?". I said, "no, I've seen this all before a million times, and she's lying". MC says, "you need to stop asking these questions, because it's obvious to me that she is telling the truth, and that you need to move on and stop dwelling on this"...

...2 months later, I had d-day 2, and found out that WW was having the A during the time of that very MC session...I will never go back to that MC.


"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"

Henry David Thoreau
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 514
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 514
Originally Posted by introvert
Originally Posted by TryingToLetItGo
Originally Posted by introvert
Let me repeat that (for those here that tend to skip things)....I see that now...thank you.

IMO, that sounds very condesending.

Be that as it may. Never intended it to be...just seems to be people here that keep trying to hammer the point home when the point is already taken. Trying to avoid that for once...that's all.

My apologies.

Thanks! I think sometimes it seems like I am trying to hammer a point home because often what you may view as answering a question did not really answer what I was intending to ask.


BW 38 (me)
FWH 42
Married 7 years
DD 6
SD 15
11-2006 H said he wanted a divorce and walked out
3-2007 I told H I wanted him back
3-2007 to 4-2007 D-day's
4-2007 H moved back in for good
Today-In recovery, but a long way to recovered
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Originally Posted by TryingToLetItGo
Originally Posted by introvert
She doesn't really speak about it very often, although I do tell her that I will answer any questions that she may need an answer to. NC is established, POJA is in effect, policy of radical honesty is in place, trying (to the best of my ability right now) to meet her EN's, 1st phone session done, 2nd one (rescheduled) tonight, etc...

Hmmm...That doesn't really answer what I intended to ask. What I was asking was does your BS Affair bother her at all. I guess I am thinking that it can only be a non-issue if it does not bother your W at all. If it does bother her then does it really matter if a professional called it a non-issue?


I totally agree. That is why my door is open if she ever wants to discuss the issue. I've never told her otherwise. In fact, I ask her quite frequently if there is anything about it that she would like to discuss. She usually says, "I just want to move forward", and I leave it at that.

I'm sure it does bother her, but if she doesn't want to discuss it, there isn't much I can do to help her. You can ask her yourself if it bother's her...she is a member here.



"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"

Henry David Thoreau
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Originally Posted by TryingToLetItGo
Originally Posted by introvert
I was a faithful husband who took vows, and stuck to them. My view has ALWAYS been that if W had an affair...marriage over. I knew it and she knew it...therefore, the fact that the 2 people involved in the union knew that the union would be over if this situation ever happened...it was over.

I thought you were currently working on recovery? When did your marriage end?

Sorry I missed this post...busy ducking and weaving.

My marriage ended the day my WW had sex with OM...that's when she chose to end it.

We are in recovery, and as I stated in my above post, we are doing it the MB way.

Our viewpoint on the possible recovery of our marriage is a little different than most. You see, W was unhappy before her A...I'm miserable after her affair (and mine). We are pretty much convinced that we need to enter our recovery with the mindset of "starting over". We were in love and happy before, so there has to be a way to get that back, but we are also not so naive as to think that we can do it the same way as our "first marriage"...it won't work. So, whether legally divorced, then re-married...or, just "starting over"...it's the same to us right now, and that's our mindset.


"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"

Henry David Thoreau
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 858
D
dkd Offline
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 858
I actually think that's a great way to look at it. It separates the past from the future nicely.



Me 38
Divorced 8/09
DS 10,6
DD 4
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 395
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 395
Great question Krazy!

I've been thinking about this myself recently...

Even though I've flirted w/ the idea...and even some women...I didn't have my own affair b/c, no matter how much of a hit my self esteem took as a result of my WW's choice, HAVING AN AFFAIR WOULD MAKE ME A LESSER PERSON...

I would think less of myself.

Yes, Bob, mirrors are a good thing... smile



If God is a DJ, life is a dance floor, you get what you're given, it's all how you use it... Pink
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
I'm with Bob too. Quite apart from my vows and my relationship with God, I have mirrors too.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,150
I chose to make a better more ethical choice than my now-x. I looked at it as a matter of ethics and morals. And, when my children grew up, I wanted them to know I had walked the higher road.

You never know who is watching. You never know who holds you in great esteem. You never know who you are showing the path.

You live best by making the next good choice...and the next good choice. If it isn't a good choice, you are wise to not make it.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
To answer the question in your subject as honestly as I could - I didn't have a "revenge affair" simply because the opportunity wasn't available when I was thinking of having one, and I had very low self-esteem at the time anyway (apart from the other issues affecting my life at the time, finding out that my FWW thought so little of me that she invited the OM to our home to scr*w him on our marital bed really did a number on my self esteem).

What if the opportunity does become available now? Again I'll be honest - I really don't know whether or not I'd actually pursue it. I know I'd be sorely tempted to give her a taste of her own medicine, and hit her just as unexpectedly as she hit me. And my society tends to turn a blind eye to men who cheat anyway.

But you know what - I'm hoping that my sense of morality kicks in as it usually does when it needs to, and saves me from doing something really stupid that I would regret later.



ManInMotion
===========
(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153
I
iam Offline
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153
I did not because, regardless of what my spouse did, I still had to have respect for myself AND my vow. My vow was between me, my spouse and God.

It was important to be to be a man of integrity and, regardless of the desire to strike back, maintain my intergrity and pride. To do otherwise was to lessen myself as a man.

This is not about 'sexual excitement', it is about my integrity. My integrity demands that I not debase another human being so I can have some revenge or excitement.

What would it say about me if I were to choose to use another human being for my revenge or sexual gratification?

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153
I
iam Offline
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153
Originally Posted by introvert
Originally Posted by TryingToLetItGo
Originally Posted by introvert
She doesn't really speak about it very often, although I do tell her that I will answer any questions that she may need an answer to. NC is established, POJA is in effect, policy of radical honesty is in place, trying (to the best of my ability right now) to meet her EN's, 1st phone session done, 2nd one (rescheduled) tonight, etc...

Hmmm...That doesn't really answer what I intended to ask. What I was asking was does your BS Affair bother her at all. I guess I am thinking that it can only be a non-issue if it does not bother your W at all. If it does bother her then does it really matter if a professional called it a non-issue?


I totally agree. That is why my door is open if she ever wants to discuss the issue. I've never told her otherwise. In fact, I ask her quite frequently if there is anything about it that she would like to discuss. She usually says, "I just want to move forward", and I leave it at that.

I'm sure it does bother her, but if she doesn't want to discuss it, there isn't much I can do to help her. You can ask her yourself if it bother's her...she is a member here.

Guilt has a way of convincing someone that they don't have a right to be hurt. They will keep that bottled up inside and tell themselves "I hurt him/her, I don't have a right to be hurt".

I would urge you to seek her forgiveness not just 'leave the door open for discussion'.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Originally Posted by TryingToLetItGo
Originally Posted by introvert
She doesn't really speak about it very often, although I do tell her that I will answer any questions that she may need an answer to. NC is established, POJA is in effect, policy of radical honesty is in place, trying (to the best of my ability right now) to meet her EN's, 1st phone session done, 2nd one (rescheduled) tonight, etc...

Hmmm...That doesn't really answer what I intended to ask. What I was asking was does your BS Affair bother her at all. I guess I am thinking that it can only be a non-issue if it does not bother your W at all. If it does bother her then does it really matter if a professional called it a non-issue?


You're right. If it bothered her then it would definately be an issue. To answer the question about whether it does bother her or not...I can only say that she doesn't want to discuss it, and that tells me that it does bother her...or doesn't it?...I don't know, but I'm just assuming it does. I'm not going to force her to discuss it. I am, after all, a BS as well...and I would be pretty pissed if W forced me to discuss her A at a time when I don't want to.

I have apologized...been completely honest and open about it all. NC is established and will never be broken. I'm willing to discuss anything about it that she wants to discuss. She just doesn't want to right now.

It seems that I am doing everything that a WS should be doing after my ONS was ended...including full disclosure (I admitted it before she even had to ask). I can understand that my way of telling W about it seems somewhat like "revenge", but what is the alternative to telling her the truth?....lying. Isn't NC and full disclosure the best way to end an A and have the truth come out? I thought it was...or would it have been better to try to hide it and wait for W to catch me?


"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"

Henry David Thoreau
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Originally Posted by iam
Originally Posted by introvert
Originally Posted by TryingToLetItGo
Originally Posted by introvert
She doesn't really speak about it very often, although I do tell her that I will answer any questions that she may need an answer to. NC is established, POJA is in effect, policy of radical honesty is in place, trying (to the best of my ability right now) to meet her EN's, 1st phone session done, 2nd one (rescheduled) tonight, etc...

Hmmm...That doesn't really answer what I intended to ask. What I was asking was does your BS Affair bother her at all. I guess I am thinking that it can only be a non-issue if it does not bother your W at all. If it does bother her then does it really matter if a professional called it a non-issue?


I totally agree. That is why my door is open if she ever wants to discuss the issue. I've never told her otherwise. In fact, I ask her quite frequently if there is anything about it that she would like to discuss. She usually says, "I just want to move forward", and I leave it at that.

I'm sure it does bother her, but if she doesn't want to discuss it, there isn't much I can do to help her. You can ask her yourself if it bother's her...she is a member here.

Guilt has a way of convincing someone that they don't have a right to be hurt. They will keep that bottled up inside and tell themselves "I hurt him/her, I don't have a right to be hurt".

I would urge you to seek her forgiveness not just 'leave the door open for discussion'.

I have.


"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"

Henry David Thoreau
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,975
Great Question....Like many, I too thought about it, but in all honesty, I just didn't want to. I realized that it wouldn't lessen the pain of what my FWH did one bit.

Over time I came to realize that if I had retaliated by having my own affair, it would have only added to my own pain. And, most importantly, it would have made recovering even more difficult that it already was.

Nothing to gain, too much to lose.

Who


I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

Recovered
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,698
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,698
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Great Question....Like many, I too thought about it, but in all honesty, I just didn't want to. I realized that it wouldn't lessen the pain of what my FWH did one bit.

Over time I came to realize that if I had retaliated by having my own affair, it would have only added to my own pain. And, most importantly, it would have made recovering even more difficult that it already was.

Nothing to gain, too much to lose.

Who

I think I am at this point now myself.


Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday laugh
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834
To answer Krazy's question:

Flamingo could never have a Revenge Affair because she could never lower herself to my level.

To answer Introvert:

Makes alot more sense to me NOW why you were defending a BS (FL_Blindsided) who dates before the Divorce is final.

LG

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Originally Posted by lousygolfer
To answer Krazy's question:

Flamingo could never have a Revenge Affair because she could never lower herself to my level.

To answer Introvert:

Makes alot more sense to me NOW why you were defending a BS (FL_Blindsided) who dates before the Divorce is final.

LG

I still defend him. I believe that he too didn't do it for revenge. He did it for the same reason I did...to get his EN's met by somebody when he was in the mindset that his marriage was over. I/or Blind didn't need anyone outside our marriages, a piece of paper, or a judge to decide when the marriages ended...our WW's did it already. No one has to agree with what I did, but I was not waiting for the "go ahead" from anyone else to pursue what I thought would fix "me". In hindsight, it was the wrong thing to do...and I can only deal with the consequences now. That's what I'm doing.


"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"

Henry David Thoreau
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,093
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,093
Why did I not have a revenge affair?


Why on Earth would I have an affair - do the one thing that is just about the equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb on my marriage - when I am trying with everything I am to save my marriage?

Wrong.
Immoral.

And I could never see myself hurting anyone in the way I have been hurt. Never.


SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
I respect your opinion SB, but do you (hypothetically speaking) think that your husband would be as hurt as you, or would he be somewhat relieved to know that he wasn't the only one that did it?

I know it's easy to say "I never would, so it doesn't matter"...just a hypothetical question.

Last edited by introvert; 07/17/08 02:33 PM.

"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"

Henry David Thoreau
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880
K
Krazy71 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
K
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880
I don't want anyone to think I'm saying a RA is OK...I just know many BSs at least consider a RA at some point. I'm just wondering what has stopped them.


Divorced
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 57 guests, and 64 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Dodo M, Kingpin, MikaylaVaux, I.P., Alex82
71,727 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,545
Posts2,322,787
Members71,728
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5