Thanks atpeace, your words are encouraging. Same with yours lousygolfer. I will work on the things you suggest.

OK, what if I rob banks, I mean I really love robbing banks, I cannot get enough of it.

Ohh, what could ever help me QUIT robbing banks! Heck, whenever I drive by a bank, I get the terrible desire to ROB it! This desire CONSUMES me! What should I do to lose the desire to rob banks! It is EATING ME UP driving by banks and wanting to ROB them! People WANT me to quit robbing banks! Help!!!!

Hey, if you do crappy things in life for so many years...like maybe chain smoking, getting drunk, eating 10,000,00 calories each day, or having affairs, they become bad destructive habits. You become a crappy person. Once you are a crappy person it would be like climbing a hill trying to get back to normal.

Is the PAIN of being a good person worth the PAIN of giving up the crappy habits? Yes, or no.

BRW:

Don't get defensive about it.

If brushing your teeth WAS reminding you of OW, you WOULD have to do something else.

1. WHY did brushing your teeth remind you of OW? Did she:
A. Buy you the toothbrush?
B. Compliment you on your great teeth?
C. Was a dental hygenist?

2. Yes, you HAVE to brush your teeth, but you have to change the memory triggers in yourself. For instance, I DID by OW a toothbrush, that she could use in my office. I open that drawer, and see her toothbrush, it would make me think of her. Dday comes. I don't open that drawer much. I open it one day and there is the toothbrush. I clean the toilet with it. Then threw it away.

I didn't want the POSITIVE memories of that toothbrush. I WANTED the negative ones.

So yes. If walking the dogs triggers thoughts of OW, then you have to understand WHY they do, and then make changes to them. Take the W. Talk to W. If she won't walk, take cellphone, call W. If she won't talk to you that way, call your mother. It's been awhile.

LG

What if I said reading your inane posts makes my [censored] hurt?? Would you tell me to STOP reading them?? I hope so! I have no intention of taking your recovery more seriously THAN YOU DO!

Instead I am going to do something useful like get a pedicure. Which color do you think is nicer, Shanghai Shimmer or Royal Flush Blush?

Ah, you're too funny, Melody!! You make me chuckle.

I wish I could meet you in person -- I bet we could have fun together!!

I'd love to give you a pedicure .... any color you like, darling

OH NO!!

"She was not trying to destroy my marriage, never wanted me to leave my wife, and felt responsible for the emotional trauma my wife and I have been going through. I respect her for that."

LOL You really do believe that don't you?

MOST OW emply the same tactic - pretended innocence, assuring the WH that they don't have destroying his marriage to his BW as their agenda... but then 'oops - it wasn't planned but we fell in love'... and by then they've got their claws in deep.

Wanna know why she told you that she didn't intend to hurt anyone or to destroy your marriage? So you'd let your guard down and wouldn't RECOGNIZE the danger she was to your marriage and family. And if you succomb to your cravings for her, divorce your wife to be with the OW, she knows you won't blame or resent her for it, just because she was smart enough to claim she didn't intend for that to happen. If you end up dumping your wife for her I bet she'll put on a pretty good act of how sad she is that somebody got hurt too...

I am a woman with 5 sisters and I ASSURE YOU that what she told you is NOT what she's bragged to her girlfriends! My WXH's OW had him convinced too... while she was bragging all over town how she had him "so wrapped around her pinky"! I'm not a fan of them myself but maybe you should watch a soap opera or two to rid yourself of your dangeously naive trust of OW.

OW PREFER to have the WH not be aware of their agenda - it works in their favor in so many ways.

You are sruggling with withdrawals from a very strong addiction and you're still defending the drug dealer dude. Whatever the OW claims, or has convinced you of, the fact is she HAS threatened your marriage. Heck it doesn't even matter if the OW really did think it was possible to get involved with a married man without harming his marriage (but my bet is like MOST females she's known otherwise since a very early age), she still is infact a threat to your marriage.

Your wife and children NEED you to recognize and neutralize that danger - to protect THEM - to be THEIR hero. It is not in any way noble for you to want to protect or defend the OW!

I don't know if you're being niave, think you're being 'noble', or are just still too addicted to see straight, but I seriously doubt that she didn't realize she was hurting your BW and threatening your marriage.

It is YOUR JOB to protect your wife/marriage, childen/family from OW. And you don't even realize the enemy IS the enemy?!?

Wow - that OW must be pretty darn good at her game!
She got her drugged barb into you pretty deep and you are defending her supposed honor?

Melody, sorry I did that. Just got carried away. I WAS humored by your response, and I don't know what came over me, but I just couldn't resist. Sometimes I think we all need to lighten up a bit. Hope I didn't offend you. Seriously, I do appreciate the time you take to think about my problems. I AM a problem-child, I'll admit it

...... and your response? ...... Perfect!!!! I loved it!!

____________________________

Meremortal, I understand your concern, I really do. At first, when I posted my story, I didn't read much else on this forum, but I have been reading more lately, and I can see how serious these affairs are. It looks like the typical OW/OM wants to pull the married spouse away from their marriage. In fact, I had a meeting w/ my counselor today and she said exactly that -- that there a lot of single women who would like to be in a relationship and they don't care if they wreck a home and get a married man to leave his family.

But really, the OW in my case IS different. I tried many times to meet her. Early on in my affair, I pressed her very hard to meet in person. I can't tell you how many times I begged to meet her. But she would never let me. She said that a face-to-face meeting would escalate our relationship way too much, and she didn't want me to have to deal with that. If she HAS been playing me as you suggest, I would be shocked. And I guess if it was true, then I would deserve every bit of misery that I'd have coming to me. But I really believe her. And I DO respect her. At the time, I thought she was being unreasonable by not letting me visit her. But now, I'm soooo glad she stuck to her guns. I can see now that if I had met her in person, I most likely would've been hopelessly addicted to her.

Besides, do I really think I would abandon my wife to pursue a porn star? C'mon, I might be dumb, as they say, but I'm not stupid!! She has online relationships with several other guys. I'm not that special to her. I know that. For a while, I got caught up in the fantasy that she and I were "soul mates," but I know now it was just a diversion from the boredom I had in my own marriage.

Meremortal, I do appreciate you being concerned about me and my family, but really, I will be ok, and I'm pretty sure my wife and I will be ok too. She's an amazing woman and has lots of patience. I've said this before on this thread, and I'll say it again, I am VERY lucky to have her.

You mention that I'm struggling with a very strong addiction. You know, I really don't think so. I haven't contacted the OW in a week and a half, and I don't have any urges to. I do miss her from time to time, but I think that will fade. I'm ok with the no contact, and I'm glad that she has respected it. ...... well, actually, I do sometimes wish she would try to contact me, but the longer I go without hearing from her, the more I realize that what we had really WAS just a fantasy on my part and nothing special on her part. I'm ok with that. I'm ready to move on.

One thing I've learned through this is that I think men have a need they don't often admit, or maybe don't know they have, and that's the need for an emotional bond. I had lost that with my wife and figured I could ride out life in a dull marriage and simply find happiness on my own. When I met the OW and formed an emotional bond with her, I realized that I had a need for something missing in my marriage. My main goal now is to rebuild that bond with my wife. I think we can do it, but it will take time and work. Amazingly, today is the first day that I actually started believing what a few counselors and a few people on this forum have said all along, ..... that we could rebuild our marriage to a truly wonderful state. I told my wife that when she got home and she was so happy to hear me say that. She has believed that for a while, but I was having trouble seeing how it could happen.

It sounds weird, and my wife was the one who actually said this, but it's almost as if the affair was necessary for us to get to the point of really working on our marriage. Before the affair, we were lazy and content with the status quo. The affair really shook us up and got us out of our complacency. My wife said it's too bad that it took something as traumatic as an affair to get us off our butts and into action, but if that's what it took, then in a way, the affair was a good thing. I know, I know, that sounds like such a bad thing to say, but do you see what I'm getting at?

A really ironic thought I had tonight as I was preparing dinner for my son and I (my wife works late), is that it would be so cool if my wife and I could get over this, get this thing so far behind us, that we could laugh at it, and, God forbid, even meet the other woman in person some day, TOGETHER, and laugh about it with her too! (Oh no, I can feel the 2x4's already.) Seriously, I even mentioned this to my wife after she got home, and although she didn't think it was as cool as I did, she wasn't upset by the thought. She has even wanted to call the OW at times just out of curiosity. She doesn't feel threatened by the OW and would like to understand the nature of the emotional bond I formed with her so that she (my wife) can better meet my need for it. I know most don't recommend the BS contacting the OW, but in the case of my wife and I, we're not afraid to try if for no other reason than to see what happens.

Bottomline -- I think we'll be ok. It'll take time, but I think we'll be ok. Thanks for your concern.

(Aw, Melody, I did it again, didn't I? I just proofread this and realized it's too long, isn't it? Sorry. I had a couple glasses of wine for dinner and got carried away. I'll do better next time.

dang, that boy went and wrote another novel!! ok, meremortal, its all yours!

p.s. no offense at all, glad you have a sense of humor!

~emphasis mine



Surely you can't be serious!!! Get a grip man!!! Seriously, those are DELUSIONAL thoughts...

Mrs. W

That is lunacy that is not helpful to your recovery. I wonder if you smoked some hoochie weed before you posted this? Truly. That is how wacked out this sounds. Either that or you are trying to get some attention by sounding nuts.

The OW is a danger to your marriage, so of course she is a THREAT; your wife would be insane to NOT feel threatened by someone who *IS* a true threat to your marriage. Not feeling threatened by a REAL THREAT is not a sign of emotional security, but a sign of emotional INSTABILITY or extreme foolishness. You would both be stupid to not recognize this threat.

I wonder if you say loony things like this in order to shock people? Either that, or you really are high on something. What gives? I just don't believe you are that messed up.

Seriously, I am still sitting here with my mouth agape in stunned amazement that anyone could be this foggy...

I agree with Mel, you are either on something, looking for a way to bring EVEN MORE shock value to your thread OR you need electro shock therapy...

Honestly if I was your wife and you had said this to me, you'd have "summer teeth"...As in: Some are on the floor...Some are on the counter...etc...

Wake up man!!!

Mrs. W

I recomend some electro-shock therapy to help you wake up and get a clue. You are seriously delusional.

Well, my intention was NOT to shock anyone, and, no, I'm not a drug user, so I guess the only thing left is I'm delusional. At least since my wife agrees with me, maybe we can be happily delusional together!

I can see by the responses that I DID shock people, but the responses don't say why. I need to know why you think my wife contacting the OW is a bad idea. If the OW is the enemy, what's wrong with getting to know your enemy? In warfare, that's always a good idea. What's wrong with it in this case? Melody, you said the OW is a threat to our marriage. What's wrong with trying understand that threat? Telling me it's delusional lunacy and that I need shock therapy is one thing, but tell me why. I need to know why.

My wife and I talked about this some more after I posted yesterday but before I read the replies. One thing my wife wants to know is the details of the emotional bond I formed with the OW. If the OW was meeting emotional needs, then my wife wants to better understand how we connected emotionally so that my wife can be that connection for me. When my wife asks me, I don't know how to describe the emotional connection. All I can say is that it was something intangible. My wife feels that if she talked with the OW, she might learn something that will help us. Maybe you guys think that is extremely naive and that we're playing with fire. I don't know. Give me some specific reasons why this is a bad idea. Also, if you disagree with my wife's reasoning for wanting to contact the OW, tell me what's wrong with her reasoning; why would understanding the emotional bond I formed with the OW, from the OW's point of view not help?

I'm not trying to shock anyone here. If anything, I'm a little shocked by the responses. ....... well, not really anymore, I've come to expect it by now.

Here's a new wrinkle in our situation that I was wondering if you guys can help me with. Much earlier in this thread I described a situation in our past in which my wife had planned a couple business trips with a male colleague including flying out of town together, staying at the same hotel, attending conference sessions together, etc. Even though I believe her that nothing affair-wise happened on those trips, I wasn't comfortable with the appearance of it. It was a major issue for us that we eventually got over but never completely settled. Well, just this morning, my wife said she was going up to a shopping center near where this guy works and wanted to know if she could have lunch with him.

I sort of sighed, not really wanting to answer the question. (I'm a conflict avoider, in case you don't know.) Deep down, I would prefer that she didn't, but I don't want to appear like I don't trust her. I don't want to constrain her. She's an adult, and I trust that she can make intelligent choices. And especially after MY infidelity that we're recovering from, who am I to be untrusting? I never really answered her, but she could tell that I was in conflict. I think she knows that I'd prefer she didn't meet him but that I wanted to leave the final choice up to her.

What do you guys think? Should I be concerned? After what I've done, do I have a right to be concerned? Her previous interactions with this guy were a big reason that led me to emotional withdrawal from our marriage, and somehow I hate to see this come up again. I'm positive she's not doing this in a revenge sort of way to get back at me; she's not the type. And her business reasons for wanting to meet him are reasonable. I should be able to accept that and not think twice about it. Is it MY unfaithfulness that taints me with suspicion? What do you think?

I wonder if she really is that delusional. I have my doubts and suspect she might be simply ignoring your fogbabble until your mind is restored. I understand that you might be that delusional, and perhaps you are a sociopath, I don't know. [your lack of remorse seems to indicate that]

But I doubt that she is this messed up that she would come on a board and express absolute ignorance about why the OW is a threat to the marriage. That is not the reaction of a NORMAL person, anyway.

I think if one does not understand WHY an affair would be a threat to a marriage and needs it explained to them, they are probably not RIGHT and no amount of explanation would suffice.

So, no. I don't believe she is this messed up that she needs it explained to her.

You know, I think it might be good for her to see him at such a critical time in your marriage when she needs the MOST support. It seems he was able to meet some needs in the past, so maybe he can now. It wouldn't be fair of you, IMO, to deny her that experience. And besides, she might come to RESENT your interference. And resentment is very bad for marriages, wouldn't you agree?

p.s. I think it would also be a very kind gesture to rent them a motel room so they can conduct their business in complete privacy. I think she would appreciate that and it would show your willingness to SUPPORT her in this trying time.

It is intangible because it wasn't REAL.
You can't describe it because it wasn't REAL.
Your connection was based on lies and secrets... of betrayal. Your wife doesn't need to have a connection with you that is anything like the OW!
She needs to have a real, true, open and honest connection with you that is build with love and committment.

You missed the point. The question wasn't "why is an affair a threat to a marriage?"

The question was, "why is it a bad idea for my wife to contact the OW?"

The answer is not "because an affair is a threat to a marriage."