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Yeah, my H expects me to do things that he wants to do, even when he knows its nothing something I am up for. I personally LOATHE his best friend, but I am nice and cordial to him. He and his (nice, but dull) wife have a baby the same age as ours, and H is always trying to plan us to get together, but I dont want to because his friend is a complete moron (with no moral compass, even though he totes about like he has one). So, since I dont like seeing them socially (even though we do quite regularly, because I want him to enjoy time with his friends), that is why he was having all those stupid overnights at his place, or having him come and crash here. Until I told the friend that he is no longer welcome to sleep at my house. hurray


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Hmmm, what if its half a lie? LOL I DO want to see him and spend time with him at the game! I think hiring a PI is lying by ommission, so I dont see the difference.
If you suspect your H or W is having an affair, it's your duty to protect your marriage. According to MB, you have to learn all you can, expose, and do Plan A while you wait for your spouse to come out of the fog and see the truth of what they did. In other words, you are 'saving' your spouse from the craziness that has gripped him.

On the other hand, if you go up to your H and say, 'Oh, by the way, will you take this laundry to the cleaners for me?' and inside the bag is a hidden recorder, you are implicitly deceiving him. That hurts marriages because if it comes out, he won't be able to trust you.

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"Andrew, when I sent those emails, he read them and called. He printed them out to bring them home so we could talk about them. He was crying when he called, going on and on about how he was sorry that I was so hurt and felt betrayed. He still denies it. Wont budge."

You do know WHY he was crying right?
Becuase he's worried that you will take a stand, expose the adultery, confront the OW... and threaten 'their' relationship.
He's so addicted to her that the thought of you taking action to put a stop to it had him sobbing - that is a big red flag.

And/or he was hoping his emotional display would discourage you from taking action, plus maybe even make you feel guilty for noticing the big red flags.

You are being gaslighted and managed.
You're giving him more rope to hang himself with.
You're allowing her more time to get her claws of addiction deeper into his soul... or time for her to get pregnant...

Her husband deserves to be given all the info you've collected so far ASAP. Hopefully he will take action before it's too late.
I certainly understand why you'd want to delay taking action but IMHO you are not taking this seriously enough. If you weren't ready to follow a plan of action to end the adultery, then it probably would have been better to not let your husband know that you know anything yet.

If there really isn't anything going on between your husband and the OW it's doubtful he'd start sobbing about.

BTW, why would you have to give ANY reason as to why you would show up at a game? And if she didn't happen to be there with him, hopefully you would realize that doesn't necessarily prove they aren't still involved with each other.

Why didn't you tell the MC about your husband's involvement with the OW?!?!?


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I get you. I dont believe its continuing, but when we have been betrayed, I think it will always be a challenge to feel completely secure and safe again. That is what I am struggling with. He has given me no reason since I confronted him, that anything continued. I have found nothing dated past May to indicate ANY devious activity. Finding the poem last weekend sucked, but it was dated April. It wasnt NEW, but it was new to me, kwim?


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I never said he was sobbing. This was an EA, not a PA - he is not going to knock her up. For crying out loud, I am living this right now. I would like to believe (actually, I DO believe) that my husband got teared up because he LOVES me and is hurt that he has hurt me. IT IS possible, you know. Not everyone looks for reasons to continue to ruin their marriage. He made a mistake, and I am going to believe he is feels remorseful until he gives me a reason not to. And since May he hasnt given me a reason not to.

I have confronted him on ALL accounts - all the info I have seen, I have exposed to him. There hasnt been anything that I have found that I have not told him about. When I exposed, all communication (that I can find or have access to) has been stopped. I am aware that they work together, but thankfully, I do not feel its ever alone. Its just not the type of environment they are in. I have always stopped by freely with the kids to say hi to him and the staff, and he has never once come across like he was being caught.

Again, this is an EA that I believe was taking place in April and May. I confront him in May and I havent found a singls shred of evidence - including his behavior - that leads me to believe it is still ongoing.

ETA: Yes, I know he lied. Admits that he DID exchange emails with her that were not work related, apologzied for interacting with her in a way that could (would) lead to an EA, admits that he lied about who she was, her age and that they were friends. He will not, however, admit (because I am not so sure in his mind he think its an affair at all) that he had an EA with her. This I cant deal with. Once I can get him to admit that it was indeed, an EA, it will be hard for me to move on. I do not trust HER, and I wouldnt put it past her at ALL to show up to the game. And yes, it sucks, and I hate feeling this way, but I want to see for my own eyes that she isnt there.

Now, if she IS there, any ideas of how I should handle the situation. Say something to her (or not), call them both out (or not), wait until we get home to talk - or is it ok for me to tell her she better look for another school to teach in, because I will press until it happens, etc.....

Last edited by Gdar; 09/05/08 05:23 PM.

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Not going to the game. He asked our 11 yr old son to go with him, so I am feeling confident again. He would never take him if he was doing something inappropriate - and certainly would know better than to introduce him to HER, as my son would tell me every little detail of their evening (he remembers EVERYTHING and has a steel trap for a memory for names).


Then he asked if I wanted to go and help search bags with him (I help him do this at prom every year).

Whew. I needed this reassurance.

Thank you all for your support during this rollercoaster!


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Gdar, I hope that you follow through with going to the MC, and don't let his one decision to take your boy to assuage your concern by itself. MB is a great program and can make a huge difference in your marriage. Where you can thoughtfully request your DH to take DS to the game if that makes you feel better. How do you two respond in general to thoughtful requests? With a respectful, solution oriented attitude, looking for the win-win?

Is the MC familiar with the Basic Concepts?


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We both respond well to Thoughtful Requests. Always have. We just have to be cognizant about keeping them thoughtful. smile

Again, I do not suspect anything continued, I am just trying to recover from the brief period.

Yes, we are going to continue MC - have an appt each Thursday for 6 weeks. $85 a pop, but we are confident this is going to be good for us.

This weekend was great. The counselor asked us to keep a "Good List", a log, if you will, of the things we are noticing and appreciating about the other. I cant believe that I already have 4 solid pages since last Thurs (in a traditional composition notebook)! We are not allowed to share the list with each other, but hand it over to the counselor at the start of our next session, he will review, then we all go over them together. I enjoyed doing this, as it kept spirits high and focused on all that great things I DO love about my H.


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Having one of those days. Everything is a trigger. frown I cant even listen to music anymore, without thinking the song I am hearing is a song he downloaded while imagining HER. Our 2.5 yr old started preschool at his school's kid program, she goes twice a week. Now going there is a huge trigger. The door we walk into to drop her off/pick her up is the same doorway I met the OW.

Just needed to get that out.

Yesterday I was at the hospital waiting for a friend's son to come out of surgery and each and every man that walked by me I thought "I wonder if HE is a cheater". I was seriously thinking all men are. Mine didnt even have a PA, but this EA business is just as painful.

Thanks for listening.


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Remember that recovery is a process. You WILL have bad days. Don't ever make decisions on bad days. Just wait, and things will usually get better.

When we love our spouse, we want to think the best about them. It is good to accentuate the positive, and not dwell on the negative if we want a happy marriage, BUT ONLY IF THE A IS NOT ONGOING.

I think you would do well to watch him for a while until you know for sure. If the A has been taken underground, it will be more difficult to find any thing out, but the damage to your relationship will be ongoing.

Trust is something that you don't just give to him, he earns it. If he really cares about you, and if you are important to him, he will want to follow Harley's four rules.
The Four Rules

Especially the rule of Care, and the rule of Protection. If he is committed to you, he will protect your feelings over those of the OW. If you continue to feel you are not important to him, and that he discounts your thoughts and feelings, you should keep watching him.


God bless you and keep you safe through a full and complete recovery.

SS


I think sometimes about all the pain in the world. I hope we can ease that here, even if only a little bit.
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Thanks, SS. I know I will have bad days. I think weekly MC is freaking me out, as well. I do great for a few days afterwards, then I stress out and get anxious about the next one coming up. Like another one tomorrow - the day we talk about the EA. An hour just isnt going to cut it. frown

I can no longer enjoy the beach the way I used to, the thought of a bonfire (which I THOUGHT was special just to H and I) makes me want to puke. Its all a bunch of damn triggers. Everything I once loved and enjoyed about/with my H is now a trigger.

I lost 10 lbs since my birthday - which was only 10 days ago. 10 days ago I found that damn poem (from 5 months ago). TEN lbs. This is killing me, but I am putting on a pretty, smiling face everyday and catering to my H every need. I am resenting it today. He is also catering to mine, doing a great job of being a great H, but I am mad right now. I wanted him to be a great H 5 months ago when he was being so selfish and only thinking of himself (and that stupid, ugly OW).


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Gdar, I can imagine it may feel awful for a while. How's your self care? I have a friend who also loses weight when she gets stressed, and she's thin to begin with. She said that she tries to drink some V8, so that she gets some nutrition even though she isn't hungry.


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Well, I took the baby to the Dr yesterday to also find out he hasnt gained any weight since his 2 month check up, and he will be 4 months on Friday. I have increased my caloric intake 600, hoping to make a difference. I thought I had been eating well, as I always do (not a junk food or sweets eater, like veggies and organic foods) but my body is literally sapping me of all the nutrients I am putting in. I am already thin, so this is not what I was expecting. I weigh less now than I did before I got married (and have had 2 kids since).

I just cant believe what a physical toll this has taken on me, not just emotional. And I feel like I cant bring it up with H, because we have been doing so well this week.


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Originally Posted by thisbitterpill1
((Gdar)))I am so sorry you are here. You have already been getting some very good advice but I just wanted to welcome you to MB.

My H also had an EA. When I discovered the phone calls and TMs, my H also tried to tell me it was just a "friendship". When I exposed it and any time we discussed it, I called it what it was: an emotional affair. And I stated that the relationship was a threat to our marriage. You do not need to argue these things with him but just state it as if it is fact regardless of his response.

That being said, your H's total denial of having any feelings for her despite your discovery of the poem and songs says to me that perhaps he desperately wants things to continue on the way they have been without any interference from you (he wants to continue seeing OW at work).

Please be aware that each time they have contact, it endangers your M...each time they have contact, it lessens your chances of having a successful R. This is not the same as other hardships you face in a M. A's are an addiction and continued contact allows the fantasy to flourish. My H once defogged fully agreed that he was addicted to OW and now tells me I saved him from himself by exposing and by having a NC boundary. You are taking a huge risk with him coninuing at his job...not only for your M but for your emotional well-being.

Lastly, I hope you will reconsider your exposure plan. You have some great people posting to you that can really help you get your exposure ducks in a row and a good exposure is the best tool you have for bursting your H and his OW's fantasy bubble...that's the most important thing you can do right now, over and above MC.

Good luck.

Gdar - ThisBitterPill gave you some good advice.
Even IF your WH and OW's EA hasn't turned into a PA yet, it most likely will if you don't do all you can to stop it.
If they continue to work together, you continue to assure yourself that it's only an EA, and that's it's over even though they still work together, etc. then you are going to be in for a world of hurt and problems if the OW gets pregnant, or your husband leaves you for the OW.

I understand not wanting to believe that's possible, but it's not only possible but probable if you don't take action.

Who have you exposed their adultery so far?

Have you told her BH yet?

Are you following Plan A?

Have you decided how long you will give Plan A before going to Plan B?

Has your WH written the no contact letter to the OW for YOU to give/send to her?

Is he looking for another job or asking to be transferred so he no longer has contact with her? (Or is she going to switch jobs? BTW once you expose the adultery to their employer they will probably put a stop to the two of them working together.)

Has he made himself accountable to you by giving you his passwords, schedule, cellphone to look whenever you want?


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Originally Posted by Gdar
.......... I think weekly MC is freaking me out, as well. I do great for a few days afterwards, then I stress out and get anxious about the next one coming up. Like another one tomorrow - the day we talk about the EA. An hour just isnt going to cut it. frown

Can you identify why you stress about going to MC?
I have an idea, but I don't want to prejudice your answer.



I can no longer enjoy the beach the way I used to, the thought of a bonfire (which I THOUGHT was special just to H and I) makes me want to puke. Its all a bunch of damn triggers. Everything I once loved and enjoyed about/with my H is now a trigger.

This is a common problem. Many here have reported that they "took back" these places, and songs, and so on. This might involve going to the beach for a weekend and making new memories. The other factor is time.
Time, and patience.

There is no substitute.



......... This is killing me, but I am putting on a pretty, smiling face everyday and catering to my H every need. I am resenting it today.

Please read Dr Harley's feelings on the giver, and the taker.
The Giver, and the Taker

If you keep giving, and giving, you will in time run out of gas.
I would guess you still wonder if you are getting total honesty from him. If you knew that he was in the marriage with all his heart, I don't think you would be resenting it. I don't believe your taker is getting what it really wants.

You have to know what you want, and you have to believe you are getting it, or will get it. It may be time to look inside and see what your feelings are trying to tell you.

He is also catering to mine, doing a great job of being a great H, but I am mad right now. I wanted him to be a great H 5 months ago when he was being so selfish and only thinking of himself (and that stupid, ugly OW).

I wonder what he is really thinking about all this too. If he has hidden resentment, this will come to a head if your inner thoughts are not addressed.

It won't come down to who is right, and who is wrong. It will come down to addressing both of your feelings, and making sure your givers and takers find balance, that LB's are eliminated, and that you meet each others REAL needs.

Real need, as opposed to perceived needs. Often we have a hard time understanding our own needs, and an even more difficult time explaining them to others.

We go to MC, and the counselor says "Oh, if he does this, and that, you ought to be happy, don't you agree?"
Since they are supposed to be the expert, we say "Oh, yes."
Our minds understand it, but our hearts know it's not enough.

Think about what you need, that you aren't getting. Then figure out how to talk about it.

SS



I think sometimes about all the pain in the world. I hope we can ease that here, even if only a little bit.
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Originally Posted by meremortal
Who have you exposed their adultery so far? No one

Have you told her BH yet? I dont know who he is

Are you following Plan A? Yes

Have you decided how long you will give Plan A before going to Plan B? I will not go to Plan B, as Plan A is working

Has your WH written the no contact letter to the OW for YOU to give/send to her? He wrote it and sent it, I saw it, but I didnt send it myself.
Is he looking for another job or asking to be transferred so he no longer has contact with her? (Or is she going to switch jobs? BTW once you expose the adultery to their employer they will probably put a stop to the two of them working together.) It is NOT that simple in his line of work, it just isnt. They will not move him or her (she is protected by union) until the year is up.
Has he made himself accountable to you by giving you his passwords, schedule, cellphone to look whenever you want? Yes

Unless he is screwing her on his desk in front of a bunch of other staff, he wont be knocking her up. All of his time is accounted for.


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Originally Posted by still seeking
Originally Posted by Gdar
.......... I think weekly MC is freaking me out, as well. I do great for a few days afterwards, then I stress out and get anxious about the next one coming up. Like another one tomorrow - the day we talk about the EA. An hour just isnt going to cut it. frown

Can you identify why you stress about going to MC?

I cant put my finger on it, other than just talking about this stuff makes me hurt. Anxious.

I have an idea, but I don't want to prejudice your answer.



I can no longer enjoy the beach the way I used to, the thought of a bonfire (which I THOUGHT was special just to H and I) makes me want to puke. Its all a bunch of damn triggers. Everything I once loved and enjoyed about/with my H is now a trigger.

This is a common problem. Many here have reported that they "took back" these places, and songs, and so on. This might involve going to the beach for a weekend and making new memories. The other factor is time.
Time, and patience.

There is no substitute.



......... This is killing me, but I am putting on a pretty, smiling face everyday and catering to my H every need. I am resenting it today.

Please read Dr Harley's feelings on the giver, and the taker.
The Giver, and the Taker

If you keep giving, and giving, you will in time run out of gas.
I would guess you still wonder if you are getting total honesty from him. If you knew that he was in the marriage with all his heart, I don't think you would be resenting it. I don't believe your taker is getting what it really wants.

You have to know what you want, and you have to believe you are getting it, or will get it. It may be time to look inside and see what your feelings are trying to tell you.

He is also catering to mine, doing a great job of being a great H, but I am mad right now. I wanted him to be a great H 5 months ago when he was being so selfish and only thinking of himself (and that stupid, ugly OW).

I wonder what he is really thinking about all this too. If he has hidden resentment, this will come to a head if your inner thoughts are not addressed.

It won't come down to who is right, and who is wrong. It will come down to addressing both of your feelings, and making sure your givers and takers find balance, that LB's are eliminated, and that you meet each others REAL needs.

Real need, as opposed to perceived needs. Often we have a hard time understanding our own needs, and an even more difficult time explaining them to others.

Wow, this is right on. I am having a hard time REALLY understanding exactly what I need. I DO KNOW I need the truth and I am really upset that I feel I might not ever get it. I NEED him to admit to the EA in order for me to heal and move on.
We go to MC, and the counselor says "Oh, if he does this, and that, you ought to be happy, don't you agree?"
Since they are supposed to be the expert, we say "Oh, yes."
Our minds understand it, but our hearts know it's not enough.

Think about what you need, that you aren't getting. Then figure out how to talk about it.

SS

Thank you


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I just bought Emotional Infidelity for $5 online. I cant wait to get it. I should have bought it sooner. I am hoping that I can get some more insight, and H can understand why boundaries need to be set in place (and in stone) so he can steer clear of ever being in a situation like this again. Eat your heart out, OW. rant2

Ok, so tomorrow is the big "day" at our counseling session. I KNOW that H is still going to deny he was ever in a EA with OW, even though he admits he was too fliratious and promised it would stop. Any tips on how to deal with his continual denial? That is what I really, REALLY need. How to move on if I dont ever get the whole story...


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I bet if your husband was at the OW's house he would not leave clothing around, drawers open etc. I feel he does not respect you enough. I am angry at him for this.

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Who have you exposed their adultery so far? No one

Have you told her BH yet? I dont know who he is

A couple suggestion on how to get her H's name. It is in your best interest to let him in on all of this. That way you will have 2 sets of eyes on them.

Look her up on www.zabasearch.com. Sometimes even people who are unlisted come up. If her info is there google her phone # or address. You could also do a reverse lookup of the phone # to see if the bill is listed in his name.

Or go to www.intelius.com and put her name in. Most often in a free search along with the person you are looking up is a list of relatives.

With either of these you should be able to get his name.

Quote
Unless he is screwing her on his desk in front of a bunch of other staff, he wont be knocking her up. All of his time is accounted for.

Do not put anything past a wayward. Although nothing physical ever happened at work during my A a lot of inappropriateness did and under the radar of most people. Anyone who figured it out said nothing because my FOM was an authority figure and they were not willing to risk anything. Once the A was over and my friends started asking me stuff one said they would all talk, figured we were adults and were going to do whatever we wanted no matter what anyone else thought. This info is from a coworker who is a good friend of mine and even she was afraid to say something.

I'm not trying to scare you, I just want you to see how possible it is to do something that seems very impossible and unlike the person you know.

LC

Last edited by lifeschoice; 09/11/08 06:24 AM. Reason: add a thought




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