You complain about derailing, but I contend it's YOUR judgments in many of these topics that derail them.
I figure you would think that. Go back and read the posts. The poster came here with a topic to discuss...have YOU addressed her issues?
Yes, I have. She complained about how the marriage was and the fighting, and what her husband said about fighting her for custody.
Having no reason to doubt what he is saying is not true, I shared with her that it's likely she has not seen anything yet should she choose to pursue the divorce.
She said the she did not want to expose their child to any more fighting. The best way to do that is to avoid divorce. There is no bigger fight between a husband and wife than a divorce, not to mention it does little to nothing to solve the issues between them.
My concern is that her chosen course of action will ESCALATE the conflict, not end it.
Yes, I did hear her, and addressed one of her stated concerns. Not in the same way you did, and certainly not the solution she is looking to.
But to say that I'm pursuing MY agenda is a hollow and false argument.
Or have you stuck with your agenda?
See above, one of her concerns was about the fighting. If she chooses divorce and tries to take the child as sole custodian she's probably not seen anything yet.
She stated numerous times that she wanted to discuss certain things and after she addressed that there were no other man issues, you still continued on your course as though she owed you a further explanation.
I gave my observations. I still contend that while there may not a specific OM, I think she is "in love" with the idea of not being with him certainly, and possibly, but this is speculation, that she thinks about what it might be like with a different man.
But that's just a scenario, speculation. I admit it. I put it out there as food for thought. Not as any sort of judgment. I think we all, even at times in good marriages wonder if we've made a mistake or how things might have been with another.
And I agree with you that sometimes folks HAVE made mistakes in who they've chosen, etc.
Your failure to recognize abuse in this case is confusing.
But you assume I didn't recognize it. I think that is where your criticism is sourced.
I've never once said his behavior was good. I've only pointed out where she is following the same outline. Complaining about how her needs are not being met, but dismissing his.
In no way does that excuse his behavior.
And then to have you liken it to her husband laying on the ground financially is very disturbing.
So are you saying you see no similarties to her ignoring his need for financial security and his ignoring her need for emotional support?
She is the one that is saying his financial needs are out of line, but when he in his actions said the same thing about her emotional needs is condemned.
So I can see how me MIGHT feel like he's lying there, emotionally abandoned when she dismisses his needs.
It doesn't mean that I'm saying what he did was justified. Certainly not. I'm simply asking why she think it's ok for her to dismiss him, but complain when she's dismissed.
It doesn't add up!
That's all.
If that's disturbing to you, then I don't know what else to say. I painted a word picture using something she experienced. I asked if she wasn't doing the same SORT of thing to him by blowing off and judging harshly his desire for financial support.
Look, we are both BH's...but not every marriage can/should be saved.....some people deserve to be "left" and should not have the ability to be a lousy partner year after year.
Agreed. Yet we do no good to simply say get out, and never ask the person to examine their stuff. She says she has, and I guess that's all we'll get here, since she doesn't want to talk about it.
Yet what I've said all along is simply that she goes on and on about him and his faults, and says little or nothing about her own.
If that is how she has dealt with this all along, I think she'll find herself in the same circumstance in future relationships.
If she's dealt with herself and her issues, and is making progress in a plan to address them, then she'll likely be fine.
But we have nothing but her assurance that she's been working for 3 years.
Am I saying she lying? Nope. All I said was when I see a person go on and on about their spouse, with little detail about what they've done it sets off a red flag in my head.
I have no "enthusiasm for you"...I address things as they come up...regardless of who is involved. I have battled with my friends and agreed with those I don't care for...I work with the details provided. I slam people when I see it is needed...and defend those that I feel are being needlessly harassed. That is what I saw and see happening here.
I think we are the same. I tend not to SLAM people. I don't always agree, and I'm troubled by inconsistencies and apparent double standards.
I saw what looked like those things in here. Her statements about he's a good father, etc, done nothing wrong, but they were not compatible, etc. I saw the critique of him, his behavior as well as his lack of meeting her need for emotional support, while at the same time her dismissing his desire, his need for financial security.
So that troubled me. It's the my needs are more valid than your needs argument. And frankly, BOTH of them were likely left lying there emotionally after that exchange. I wouldn't give either of them a gold star for their respective roles in the exchange.
Yet as I said above, if one of her goals is to avoid a big fight, choosing divorce is NOT going to achieve that goal. It's likely to escalate the fight.
If she's been to the pastor, I wonder how the pastor would weigh in on a choice to divorce given she says he's a good father, done nothing wrong, etc.
My personal opinion is that a group of Godly men from her church (assuming he too is a member) need to go have a talk with him, man to man, to wake him up to how destructive HIS behavior is, and what it has done to the marriage.
If he refuses to clean up his act after that. Then I'd suggest she get out as she has indicated is her desire.
I only say that because of her stated concerns about the fighting. I think the fighting WILL get worse if she chooses unilaterally to divorce him.
She has given a conflicting set of objectives. She wants to leave him, but she doesn't want fighting. I don't think she can have both.
So I've suggested that perhaps the fighting could end without ending the marriage.
Will it? I dunno, he's not here. We don't know his story, his complaints, his willingness to address her complaints. I'm pretty certain that if she wants a divorce, she is NOT willing to listen to his complaints and address them. She judged his concern for financial security as invalid.
So I see troubling behavior on both sides of the ball. Is it offsetting penalties? Dunno.
Maybe it is time to call the game. I'm simply not comfortable advising that unless I hear from BOTH parties.