Tc99m - Another poster wrote, "It is used several times and it is not ambiguous....am I missing something that is ACTUALLY WRITTEN in the Bible?"

That really IS "the point," don't you think?

While others may want to explore some tangential issues, and that is fine, I'd like to stay "on point" with you in the context of YOUR marriage and your thoughts about ending yet another marriage.


When I said earlier, And please, don't forget that you ARE married, regardless of how the marriage began another member responded sarcastically, " Not according to all religions, he's not."

This really IS an issue in the comments and advice you have been receiving. In YOUR case, it does not matter what ANY other "religion" might think because you are a self-professing Christian, in a relationship with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, the Triune God, not any other "faith system."

So the issue, as it was with David (with all due respect to those who may have found the reference to David, Bathsheba, Solomon, etc., irrelevant), is that SIN is the issue with God. God establishes the PENALTY for sin and it is not established by man or by any "religions faith system."

God is the Judge and God CAN "commute" any sentence or enforce any penalty that HE chooses in His sovereign right as Lord and God of ALL.

In David's case, David committed adultery regardless of whether or not Bathsheba was "divorced." DAVID was married and despite the "human engineered" right to have multiple wives, Jesus made it very clear (as was pointed out in the opening sentence) that "from the beginning it was not so." God ALWAYS intended marriage to be between one man and one woman, for life. So far as we know, that WAS true for Adam and Eve, despite the fact that they DID sin (which is what disobedience to God IS). We could go into some similarities between Adam and Eve's sin and David and Bathsheba's sin AND God's forgiveness and the ongoing consequences of sin, but let's save that for another time when you might want to explore that issue. For now, let's stay focused on YOUR MARRIAGE and, as you say, that it began "in sin."


So let's talk briefly about God the Holy Spirit. If you are Christian, truly a Christian in fact and not just by appropriation of the word "Christian," then you KNOW that the truth of God is that God the Holy Spirit INDWELLS you and your wife (assuming she also is a Christian). God DOES NOT "take up residence" with anyone who is NOT a "True Christian," nor does any sin that any believer commits AFTER being saved result it the withdrawal of the Holy Spirit and a "re-condemnation" of your spirit (a loss of your salvation).

So what IS "salvation" in Christ? Is it "conditional" upon anything that you do to "keep" your salvation? Is it "By Grace" or is it "by works" that YOU gain merit and favor with God SO THAT He will forgive you and KEEP you as one of His children? Was Jesus' payment for ALL sins for all who believe in Him AS Lord and Savior "insufficient"? Is Jesus "unable" to "keep all that the Father has given Him," or CAN someone else "snatch a saved believer out of Jesus' hand"?


Has your salvation been "sealed" by the indwelling Holy Spirit, promised by Jesus to ALL who truly believe in Him, or has it NOT been "sealed?"

Tc99m, you seem (to me) to be playing "mind games" with your marriage and looking for ways to "justify" divorcing your wife "because she no longer pleases you," in much the same manner as was "Jewish Law" in Jesus' time. THAT was the "point" of my previous mentioning of Jesus' confrontation with the Pharisees and their questioning of Him concerning divorce.

The "point" of the previous example of the seven brothers and Jesus' answer about "no marrying or giving in marriage" in heaven is that God established marriage for humans ON EARTH and for very specific reasons that were enumerated in Genesis. Marriage IS a "human activity" that was established and ordained BY God for the purposes that God established, not for what man tries to twist it into in his "sin-nature." We are (as sinners still struggling with our sin-nature) VERY good at trying to find "justifications" and "rationalizations" for our behaviors. It would be my contention that MOST of those justifications and rationalizations are chosen simply to ALLOW OURSELVES the ability to DO whatever we WANT to do, regardless of what anyone, including God Himself, might think or say about our "choices." We ARE our own greatest "enablers" when we "want something." Temptation. Sin. Committing one sin to "correct" a previous sin. Etc., etc., etc.


So what IS the "written word" that you might want to consider while you are thinking about all of your "reasons" why you want to divorce your wife rather than rebuild a Godly marriage with her? "and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth." (Pr 5:18b, NIV)

That Proverbs 5 passage is from a chapter warning against adultery. Many of the warnings in that chapter seem to be what you are facing now and struggling with. Yet they are NOT warnings about being MARRIED to an adulteress, they are warnings to NOT commit adultery when you are married. CAN you still have some of the problems associated with adultery after you are IN a marriage that resulted after adultery was committed? Of course, as the example of David, earlier mentioned, shows. FORGIVEN does NOT also mean that all consequences of the previous sin are necessarily removed. AS in David's case, he remained forgiven of the sin, the penalty of DEATH was commuted BY God, but other consequences were to remain for the rest of David's life. That WAS NOT a "justification" for David to divorce Bathsheba to "set the record straight." God did NOT demand that David divorce Bathsheba, but God did take the child that resulted from their adultery out of this world, and later allowed David to have Solomon (both the wisest human and the most self-indulgent human, imho). As an aside, it sort of shows the "limits" of "human wisdom," don't you think?


So let's talk briefly about this "human wisdom" as it pertains to you and your marriage. Another member posted the following, to which you responded:

"Neak pretty much hits the nail where she quotes Mark 10:12 and Luke 16:18. Namely, marriage to an UNLAWFULLY divorced woman is continuation of adultery.

I am pretty interested in how these ramifications play out.

So, Tc99, there it is. Whatcha gonna do???

PS. There are cases for lawful divorce but your sitch isn't one of them."


Your response:
"Those 2 verses dont answer my questions whatsoever.

If anything theyre telling me that I'm continuing to commit adultery as long as I'm married to my wife.


Please explain YOUR interpretation of these 2 verses."


I will leave it up to the member who posted that response to give you HIS interpretation as He intended it (which he seems to have done with the statement, "Bingo!)
," but I will give you my interpretation of the use of those passages and their potential application to YOUR marriage as "one possible view to consider."

There are several "issues" here.

1. The original commission of adultery/fornication.

2. The divorce by your wife of her former husband, NOT because HE committed adultery.

3. The marriage of you and your wife AS a legitimate marriage in the eyes of God.

4. The current "feeling" that you should divorce your wife and your search for justifications for acting on those feelings.

5. The notion that "adultery" can be committed between a husband and a wife, thereby resulting in a "continuation of adultery as long as you are married to him/her."


Points 1 and 2 are clearly sins.

Point 3 DID result in further adultery when you married per the verses that were cited. In addition, those verses also clearly state that a MARRIAGE was established that began with the commission of a sin (and please also remember that "sin" is a theological concept, not a "human invention" that is equivalent to what is euphemistically called a "wrong choice"). Regardless of the presence of sinful behavior, a MARRIAGE, according to definition of God, WAS established (just as it was in David's case).

Point 4 is the germination of all sin through temptation TO commit a sin in order to gratify some desire or want that a person has. It is NOT the "thought" that counts, but it is the "action" that counts, if you will.

Point 5 is the "area of contention" between many members on MB and is the basis of YOUR attempt to justify and rationalize the "putting away of your wife." I, like many others, base MY opinion on what the Word of God says in it's totality, not in any specific verse or verses taken out of context of the whole of Scripture. That was also Jesus' "point" to the Pharisees and to others the many times He referred to Scripture and the HEART of Scripture is the "forgiveness of sin" for all who accept Jesus Christ AS their personal Lord and Savior. It is about forgiveness of sin, not condemnation of sinners. It is about complete forgiveness BY God, NOT because of what WE do or don't do, but because of what Christ DID on our behalf.


You have heard of the term "affairage" that was coined by another member of MB who is an admitted atheist and "former Christian." Encapsulated in that term is the idea that the marriage is NOT "legitimate" and that adultery continues to be committed in such a marriage and that the "only" remedy is to Divorce. Several MB members embrace and/or support this viewpoint, given by an atheist, even though they also claim to be Christians themselves. For the record, since you don't know me, I have always rejected the idea of an "affairage" that rendered the marriage "not legitimate" and that results in a continuation of adultery beyond the original act of adultery. The reason for my position is contained in my understanding of what "forgiven by God" really means and whether or not it is total forgiveness of sin or not.

Without going too far "a-field" right now, let me just offer you a verse of Scripture that DOES speak to this issue of sin versus God's forgiveness of sin for you to consider as you think about YOUR marriage:

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolators nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NIV, emphasis added)


Tc99m, ARE you and your wife born again believers? If you are, then let me ask another question. If the "people" did not understand at first what Jesus meant when He said that "you must be born again," and they thought that you had to somehow get back inside the womb and be PHYSICALLY born again, why is that so many believers today don't seem to understand what being "born of the spirit" means and want to posit that certain "sins" result in the loss of one's salvation and that such a person must somehow crawl back into the "womb" of un-forgiveness and then be "born again, and born again, and born again, and born again," ad infinitum for any so-called "mortal sins?"

Tc99m, you and I ARE sinners by nature who DO continue to commit sins even AFTER we have been saved through Christ. We ALL struggle and contend with sin our entire lives. BUT there is a "big difference" in two vital areas that people "contend with" when it comes to this issue of sin and forgiveness of sin.

First, those who do NOT have Christ in their lives are ALREADY condemned by God and stand as unforgiven sinners for all sins in their lives. Second, those who DO have Christ in their lives are already forgiven for all of their sins, not just some of their sins.

"Create in me a new heart" does NOT mean that "instantaneously" a Christian is incapable of any present or future sins. It simply means that that Holy Spirit WILL convict us of our sin and bring us to repentance of those sins as part of the process of "sanctification," of conforming our lives to one of more and more "Christ-likeness" as we move from "infants in Christ" to "maturity in Christ." It IS a life-long process.

So, your marriage "isn't what you'd like it to be." What is your response, Christian, to HOW to have a marriage that honors and glorifies God? Is it divorce or is it obedience to God's commands concerning marriage, regardless of what you might be "feeling?"


God bless.

It only says the believer is free. It says nothing about the unbeliever. This verse is not a free pass to commit adultery.

And as far as Jesus "washing" sin so that it is no longer sin, the Bible paints a different picture of it.

Hi again Tc99

I have consulted a friend whom I consider to be wise. He could not give me a definitive answer based in Scripture at this time. We also discussed points that Foreverhers raised.

His thoughts are as follows:

1. Be separate within the household and especially sexual union until clarity is obtained. The rationale being - When in doubt...don't.
2. Pray and fast that you may purify yourselves.
3. Pray for guidance of the Holy Spirit while examining Scripture.
4. Request the prayers of support from others here and at home.

He further shared with me that it is a trend amongst people to look for an answer that most closely aligns with our personal convictions. I share this thought with you that you factor this into your thinking.

I will continue research into this matter. God bless you for acknowledging the Lord.

Was Herodias divorced from Philip? Bible doesn't say. Herod seems like the type of person that might just take what he wants without regard for "Christian/Jewish" law.

If he just took Herodias for his wife of course it would be unlawful. If she was legally divorced, John the Baptist would never have made such a statement.

Paul's letter to the Romans and the Corinthians were letters to Christians believers. He's telling believers these things. Are non-Christians bound to adhere to Christian teachings? Scripture needs to be kept in context.

Tc! Was your wife a Christian when she was divorced? Was your wife bound by Christian teachings if she wasn't a Christian? Is she a Christian now? Is she (and are you) bound by Christian teachings now?

Are you married now? Does God still hate divorce?

These questions I ask are not to get you to see a particular POV. They are to get you to dig into the Scripture yourself, be guided by the Holy Spirit and not take someone else's word for what they believe. I do not want you to take my word for it either. That is why I am mostly asking you questions about the scripture and trying not to give you my interpretation them.

What do you do with scripture that doesn't support a particular POV? You dig deeper, and reconcile it with God not us.

Blessings.

S&C

Not sure what this statement was in reference to but "sin is sin" and there are only two "types" of sin, those which are forgiven by God and those which are not forgiven by God. There IS a third type of sin that is "unforgiveable," in that God has imposed a rule upon Himself whereby He will not forgive that particular sin (thankfully there is only one such sin). But the third type of sin is not what it seems is being referenced in this statement.

For those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they are "washed," as in "their sins are covered by the blood of Christ who PAID the full penalty required by God the Father for all sins of a believer. When God "looks at" a believer, He does not "see" the sinner with sins remaining, He sees Christ and Christ alone, whose righteousness is imputed to all believers.

Little update.



My wife and I attend a very large local church which offers help for just about any need you can think of, including marriage counseling. I got in touch with the director of marriage counseling and spent some time with her explaining my situation. She told me not to focus on this issue but to start working on my marriage, to which I told her that I can accept that but how do I know that we're not continuing our sin. She said she couldnt not answer that and did not know the answer.

So I'm still married and still struggling over the issue of knowingly breaking up a marriage, stealing another mans wife and then asking God to forgive me.

Its come to a point where when I even think of us ever being intimate in the future, I now feel like she is still someone elses.

Hi there again Tc

I'm glad that you are still here.

I said that I would get more qualified folk to give input. You certainly have caused quite a buzz.

At this time wheels have been set in motion that our presiding bishop of CESA (Church of England in South Africa)post an answer to this thread directly. He has written books on the subject of marriage and divorce which makes him an excellent candidate to reply to you.

I will keep posting. Don't go away.

Okay, 99, you won't like this, but here is an analysis of what YOU REALLY said. Your words are in black. What you mean and/or my analysis - in red.

Let's hear it for real.

Sorry, but the 'Bus had to come out for this one.

*******************************
Our marriage has been in trouble for a long time now, its not that just now I decided to start thinking of a divorce.
Not really "in trouble for a long time". It feels like a long time, but recently I have felt like I'm not "in love" anymore, and this has become kind of stale and more like work than that fantasy I used to have. Now, there appears to be a new possible person on the horizon, and I'm thinking, hey, maybe there is something more for me out there. More than what I have, and this whole thing hasn't been right...for a long time...


Throughout our entire marriage (right from the beginning) this has NOT happened from the beginning - you have rewritten your marital history to attempt to justify your current decision making efforts, and to color the opinions of others in your direction

my wife out of guilt for marrying me you wish to believe it was out of guilt. Sorry to inform you, but it was not GUILT - it was the harsh smack of REALITY slapping her upside the head when that fantasy bubble burst and she realized she should never have left the TRUE LOVE OF HER LIFE FOR YOU - and her TRUE love was her husband.

would tell me things like " my ex treated me better", "my ex spent more money on me", "I made a mistake marrying you", "youre not the man for me", "I'm now being punished because of our adultery", You BELIEVE you are trying to tell us these things in an attempt to show us that your wife has said terrible things to you. Instead, these things are not terrible, but probably the TRUTH - and she should have recognized her mistake and undone it years ago. Instead, her pride (and YOURS) led you both to continue to attempt to prove to other people that your AFFAIR was TRUE LOVE, and despite what they told you, it would not die away. Note to self, it Was NOT TRUE LOVE, IT DIED. You are typing these things here not because they will convince us that your wife is terrible, but because somehow you know this is all true. Scary, isn't it.

These things and worse I've endured hearing almost on a weekly basis. Yes. You probably have. From both the voice coming from your wife, and the voices in your own head, telling you she was RIGHT. Only you ignored them, because you had to prove something....that you made the right choice? That you were right? That this was the right thing to do? That these "feelings" could not be wrong, that this "LUV" you felt and dishonored yourself for had to be the right thing? Yes, that's it. You did think those things. You tell me here that you did.

About two years ago I really started losing feelings for her because of these things being said over and over well, that, and the fact that the fantasy just wasn't there anymore - it never came to life - it wasn't REAL ,

I sat her down MANY times and told her that she's slowly killing my love for her but she never took notice of my warnings. Because she brought with her the EXACT SAME problems with her from her first marriage. You knew that when the problems started, that maybe the issues in her marriage weren't the ExHusband....she was the one cheating, after all, and now......well.....look at how she was treating you. That fantasy she promised you

and you promised her

wellllllllll - poof! Never really was. Stinks, that reality thing.

Beginning of this summer I told her that I cant go on like this if I have to hear these things constantly, she again didnt care and continued saying them until about 3 months ago when I told her we should split. Finally then it hit it and she has not said anything painful since. At the same time my feelings were no longer and I told her I needed time to decide what we're going to do. Not surprising, as by this time, the problems had gone on too long without being addressed. That isn't a surprise to many of us here, because we are familiar with how affairs play out - because the fact of the matter is that people in affairs are NOT in it for the reasons one might think. They are in it for THEMSELVES - and marriages, well, they don't much work when there are two selfish people involved.

So, you had lost your fantasy, and she lost hers. Too many love-busters, two selfish people. So you decide that maybe that grass out there looks a little greener. Probably is greener. After all, there are many other fish in the sea, and this one, well, there might be a legit reason to leave. But now you are a Christian, and you know about marriage, have more respect for it, and that you can't just "leave" without any reason. Only now, you are trying to justify it by trying to look at it like this goes wayyy back.

Didn't it? Hasn't it been terrible from the beginning? Oh yeah, right. We got married WRONG. That's it. That will work.

----Reality check. The reason you are posting here, and asking the question, is that YOU KNOW THIS IS NOT THE TRUTH. I know this from your posts, and you are betraying yourself again. Stop yourself.




So for the last 3 months we've kind of kept our distance from each other because I needed time to see how I still felt about her. Let's see, I need time away to figure out how I feel. Right out of the wayward spouse playbook. Anybody see this in here??????? Helloooooo!!!!! Here it is!!!! Wave, WS playbook statement!!!!!


I've been praying and telling God that I do not want a divorce but at the same time I do not want to stay married to someone that I have no feelings for and for God to give me back those feelings if he wants us to stay together.
Oh, so NOW you start praying. Not at the start of the marriage. Not when you were in the affair. Not when things were getting rough.

Now, when you WANT OUT. Now you expect to sit passively by and "blame God" for your reasoning to separate?????? Because you hear......

Those feelings have not been coming back but instead I kept hearing a voice saying I will not bless this marriage because of your sins.
voices?????? Telling you that the marriage is bad because it is an affairage.


This has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you started losing your love. Nothing to do with the fact that you both admit that your fantasy bubble burst. Nothing to do with the fact that YOU LEFT THE HOUSE??????? And nothing to do with the fact that the two of you have not tried anything whatsoever besides throwing your hands up and saying, "Oh well. God must not want us to be married, because we started out wrong." I think from much of what you have written that it has MUCH more to do with the fact that you are either in an affair, or have found someone you WANT TO EXPLORE A RELATIONSHIP WITH. But that you need to be divorced to do it. So which is it?


I started reading different Christian marriage books along with studying the Bible and the same message keeps echoing, even last weekend my wife and I were watching a Christian program on TV and the same message. So now the TV is telling you the right thing to do is divorce. Gee. That's telling us you have all the more reason to "follow your heart".

My wife does NOT want to get divorced but totally agrees that our marriage is most likely doomed and will not be blessed. Interesting. She WANTS TO STAY MARRIED. I think you give me some very important information here. I would submit to you that this has more to do with the fact that you are lying to her about another woman than it has to do with anything else. If she knew about your fantasizing about a life without her, then maybe the two of you could work this out. Ya' think?

We have already spoken about contacting her ex and both agree on trying to ask for forgiveness from him, we just have to find out where he lives because he most likely moved out of state. It might be very nice of you to send him an apology. It does not mean you should divorce. And it does not absolve you, either.

There is no other woman and I am not using God as a way out. Oh, I believe wholeheartedly that there is another woman in your heart. You just haven't gone there, YET. But she is there...... It is simply the build up from a bad marriage that God never wanted to take place and it has taken this long for things to come to this. Sorry, no sale.



Yes, I'm rough.

I have to be when I see someone lying to themselves, either knowingly or not.

You are asking the question because you know God abhors divorce.

And you feel trapped.

Sorry. You chose.


The good news is that you CAN fix your marriage. It is NOT fixed by being separated from your wife. It is not fixed by fantasizing about greener grass. It IS fixed by getting back to basics, looking at the emotional needs of one another, stopping the love-busting, and getting back on the track of focusing on what you can do to make the marriage work.

So far, you have only looked for a reason to get out. I'm not so sure that is the right plan.


SB

Great post SB - you nailed it as usual.

TC,

You have been given a lot of information, opinions and advice.

Here's mine:

1. For the one who broke the marriage vow. She is the adulterer. To get to that point she had to be a WS.

2. The sin/error committed was against the BS (her 1st H).

3. It is her 1st H that SHE needs to ask forgiveness.

4. The choice to forgive is his.

5. If her 1st H has moved forward and married another, then technically he has released her from her 1st marriage. So what is his status?

6. As for you asking his forgiveness, if that is what your conscience moves you to do, then write him a letter.

The above addresses the past.

Now to move onto the present:

A. You BOTH need to reestablish your R with God. Yes, he hates a divorce and adultery. He also knows how to help people who make bad choices when they were weak. It's called extending mercy and forgiveness.

B. Dwelling on the past is not healthy for your M and her 1st H. You can't have a good R with God if you both hold onto guilt.

C. If you have not found a good MC, then call Dr. Harley.

D. Yes you have the option of making another D or rescuing your M. That s/b a joint decision by you and your W. If one of you can't participate, then the burden does fall harder on the other and that one needs to decide.

E. You also both need to forgive each other and move forward.

The damage of the adultery has already been done. Your continued guilt will prevent you and your family from moving forward.

Instead, go ask for your individual forgiveness and move forward. Do NOT use the adultery as an excuse going forward.

The stolen car analogy doesn't fit exactly. Instead I see it as a bad injury that needs to be fixed. Set things correctly in all areas and move forward. Be balanced!

Ready to work on a recovery plan?

JMHO,
L.

Once again, there is absolutely no other woman in my life nor on the horizon, sorry but your gut feeling is absolutely wrong.

We've both been unhappy with the marriage for the past 2 years, for the last 2 years I've been looking online at places to rent because I kept thinking that eventually it would lead to it so I just kept wanting to see what was out there. By her own admission, my wife agrees that we've been more roommates than a married couple for 2 years.

We probably should have seeked counseling sooner but it really wasnt until now that I've started directly praying for my marriage and wisdom.

I have absolutely no reason to lie about anything here, I'm being as honest with everything as possible. If you choose not to believe me and instead turn my words around then dont even bother posting saying I'm a liar.

Hi there Tc
I would have liked for the bishop to contact you direct. But anyway, here is the deal:

Your wife is reborn and therefore a new creature. Your marriage IS recognized before God.

Obviously he feels condemned before God about this. Ignoring his conscience isn't the answer.

The "deal" is that he is in an adulterous relationship and many here believe it is NOT recognised by God.

Tc99m - hmmmm...it seems to me that I left you a previous post, of some length and thought, that you haven't even bothered to acknowledge, let alone respond to any part of it.

So just WHAT DO YOU want to know?

I have tried to talk to you about your struggle with being a believer, with your wife's having become a believer AFTER your affair and marriage, and your current thoughts and feelings about your marriage. But you don't respond.

A "one-sided" conversation is not very helpful and it IS a waste of my time to try to help where that help does not seem to be recognized, let alone discussed.

In addition, a "conversation" that takes days and weeks for YOU to post anything, leads to a thread like this with LOTS of members talking to other members, but NOT to you or with you.

If you truly want some opinions and potentially some help, then POST REGULARLY. People are NOT just sitting around waiting for you whenever you decide to post something. They have their own lives and they have many others on MB to spend what time they have talking with.





Okay, Tc99m - Do you REALLY want some answers to these questions and thoughts, or not?

I suspect that this issue is involved with the denomination that you attend, but if I am right, it explains a LOT about their idea of 'biblical counseling'.

Let me make just one observation, as a fellow believer in Christ. IF your "counselor" could NOT answer that question for you, then that counselor has no business being a "Christian" counselor. That person has NO idea of what salvation and forgiveness of sin MEANS, let alone what the Grace of God means or what recovery after sin means WITH God or without God as a vital part of a marriage.

But THAT is precisely what I have offered to discuss with you. But I WILL NOT "force" such discussion on you. All I will do for now is to tell you that I can answer that question for you. Whether or not you would accept such an answer is a different matter and depends greatly upon your relationship WITH God.

Okay, bigkahuna, then you must have some standard of measure by which it can clearly be said "this marriage IS recognized by God" and "THAT marriage is not recognized by God," since there are clearly only those two options for ALL marriages.

Could you post that immutable standard for us? What makes ANY marriage "recognized by God" or "not recognized by God?"

I'd like to see it and perhaps to discuss it, since as believers we DO want to try to be living IN God's will and not contrary to it.

Thanks.

Sorry Bigkahuna,

This was the very shortened version.

I would still prefer that this post be answered in greater length by the clergy. Please be patient.

Not speaking for BigK but us catholics have standards on what marriages are recognized by God.

But the OP clued me in early they were not catholic.

Where these answered?

99,

Not my gut feeling. Your own words betray you.


The WS playbook contains a script, and somewhere in there your words are scrawled across it......you write them here and we read them. Only you don't even realize that you are heading down the path of the WS. You don't realize that you have the fantasy, because you started this marriage AS A WAYWARD - because your marriage is one that started as an affair.

Your own words tell me that. I don't need to twist them.

See, here's what is really happening to you.

You had an affair with a married woman. She left her husband for you. This affair was a FANTASY relationship, one in which you both thought that you had met a soulmate, a person who was perfect for the other.

Only what was really happening was that this affair began in secrecy. The fantasy of the affair was elevating feelings of love beyond what the reality was - and now that reality is coming into view for you.

Real life with this woman started a couple of years ago. That fantasy that you and she had when the affair was in full bloom died out, and this is what happens in most affairs. They just die out, because most of the feelings that are found within the affair relationship are not sustained - mainly because the situation surrounding the affair once it has the light of day shining upon it are removed and the fantasy of it dwindles. What the two of you had was a dream between the two of you, one in which your relationship was fantasized as though it would play out much differently. Your marriage would be perfect, you would never lose the sexual attraction and passion, you would never treat each other with anything less than caring and excitement, you would always be best friends, you would always find one another new and would always want to explore one another to the depths of the other's soul.

Only what happened was that fantasy bubble burst.


And she carried with her the problems from her first marriage, right into her marriage with you.


Daily life happened.


And what happens to most affairs happened. After about two or three years, it ran its course.


And you found yourself..........not so "in love" anymore.

Wondering about your future. If there is someone else for you that REALLY is your soulmate - because you KNOW this isn't it.

Only, you knew it at first. Your own words betrayed you, 99. Because you said you married her to "do the right thing". One of your own posts said that. Not me twisting your words - your own words. You KNEW it was wrong from the start.

So you can't turn around now and question it. You questioned it then. And you did it anyway - because you were trying to do the right thing, and I'm NOT guessing....your words tell me....PRIDE has lots to do with this. She could not leave her man for you, and then have you leave her - how humiliating - you had to save her pride, and yours.


Only you tell us that you have been feeling this way for two years. So................


why

"NOW"

are you seeking help?


Why did you wait two years?


The issue here is being clouded now by this question you throw out there about God's plan.


Your real question has more to do with what YOU WANT TO DO.

Your statement about what your wife wants - which is to stay married - also tells me that.


Because by telling us what she wants, you tried to not say what you want.

SB

ForeverHers,

The reason why I disappeared for a little while was because I didnt want any outside influences to effect my thinking. I instead just spent time with God to see if I can get a clear answer.

I appreciate the time you put into this, it has not gone unnoticed!

What I'm still struggling with is this, God clearly states which marriages he does not allow, for example, a marriage between a siblings, family members, same sex and adultress marriages. So if the members of the same sex marriage suddenly came to know God, is their marriage still good just like the members in the adultress marriage?