Nowis,

You asked
I am not sure how to answer this. Yes, I think as you become more aware of your H and what he does. As you become more aware of what makes you happy and what you need. As you two begin to talk about these things and act on them, it CEASES to be work. It is simply ATTENTION.


I work long hours and have for well over 40 years. My hours are starting to become more normal and our children are out of the house. My W and I talk more about other things beside the kids, obligations etc. But, what I learned here when I found this site over 9 years ago, is that I needed to open my mouth and express myself about what I wanted and how I wanted it.
This sounds like I made demands, that was not the case. As I expressed myself my W responded. Her focus was on the children and I was on the road alot.

I came to realize my W was a lousy mindreader. I also realized that she was not particularly strong in other areas (she is not particularly romantic), but I also had to admit she was tremendous as a mother and as a W especially in supporting me. I learned how to focus on her strengths and accept that in the whole she was the best choice I could of made in a spouse. I tell her I love her daily, she rarely says that, but she shows it by her actions. Actions are her method of showing love.

God Bless,

JL

JL

Thank you. It's good to know that it ceases to be work. I hope we get to that place. A place where we do the good stuff habitually without having to think about it so much. Just paying attention. I 'get' your W. I too have those attributes of your W unromantic, practical so it's good to know different types of people can build understanding relationships together.

We talked briefly when my H got back and he asked how I was doing. I didn't labor anything but told him I would like to have a few things fixed in place that would help. I said that I would like a date night, fixed (work and him actually being here excepting). One night a week to just be and not talk about our relationship, the children or money. So we can have fun and be lighthearted and see each other in a different light, so to speak. He seemed non-enthusiastic about this. I've mentioned date nights before and the response is always the same. I say "don't you think it's a good idea", and he says yes, but not really convincingly. Why is that, do you think? It's one of my needs and would help me to connect to who he is. Why do I sense reluctance? For saying that he would do almost anything for me if asked, why not this?

Nowis,

You asked about his lack of enthusiasm. My guess...fear of the unknown.

You must understand that he doesn't understand you. He is having a hard time understanding how he is failing you as you continue to "make things better." He fears that he cannot help you become a happy W and he fears as most of us men do the "we have to talk", type statements.

You did well explaining what you want. But, did you tell him who was going to plan those "date" nights? Did you decide how they would go and where you would go? How are the kids to be addressed with regard to babysitters and such?

Open statements like we "I would like a date night" is sort of like me declaring "I want to lose 20 lbs." It is not a plan, it is not a goal, it is simply a declaration. Are you expecting him to make this declaration into a real plan? Are you expecting him to come with ideas for the date night?

I am making this sound sort of tiring aren't I? And that is the point, I would guess this is what is going through his mind especially if he is more of a "giver" than a "taker". This sounds like a lot of work.

Now you and I both know it doesn't have to be, but he doesn't know that.

I think some ideas might be good on your part. And remember most men find silence somewhat comfortable but talking can be a drain.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL

I think I understand.

With regard to the date night - there's a list. Just like there's a list of the things that I like to do from walking on the beach, to art galleries, movies, listening to live music, grabbing take out and eating it in the park, watching airplanes take off and land (yep, odd I know) etc, etc. I'm not a particularly bouquet of flowers, romantic cards kind of girl. More than anything, I want the time, individual attention and fun. I need to laugh more although that can be tricky as we do have quite a different sense of humor.

I always sort out childcare when needed. These days we can take a couple of hours out and our eldest who is nearly 15 holds the fort. The children get on remarkably well and arguments are very rare (unusual, I know).



I don't really understand the above. It's not like he has to try very hard since he has a list of ideas. All he has to come up with is the time and he always says he wants to be with me.

I am aware there are times I should just not talk. We've thrashed things out a lot over the last 3 years and I think all he wants is a quiet life. I don't labor things but I am learning to be honest and say when I'm uneasy with stuff. I've been told that because I bottled things up over the years I have not created an honest and real relationship. So I do struggle with how much to say. In addition, I am aware that if I was close to my family and had a few more friends, then perhaps he wouldn't have to listen to me so much! Talking here helps me more than I think it should.........

Anyway, off to work.

Nowis,

You have a list of things YOU would like to do on a date night. Does this list bother him any? If not, put it on a dart board and throw a dart to select, or put them in a hat and draw one, or... My point select a time for getting together, and then choose the event by some method. Make the time selection a week or so ahead to that schedules can be set.

I beleive he would like the fun of it, it is thinking about the mechanics of it. When our first child was born, she was so happy, I was happy as well, but while she was thinking about diapers, I was worrying about how to pay for college. Men and women often worry about different things.

Talk with him, and work on making it fun for both of you.

God Bless,
JL

So JL

the subject of a date night came up again. We were actually out at a friend of mine birthday party. My H said that the date night thing was something that he had to come out of his comfort zone for. I was rather surprised at this. I said that the date night activity would be something that we would both agree upon - not just a list of what I want to do. He said he was okay with it but there is no enthusiasm.

So, I asked what other things/times in his life has he had to come out of his comfort zone. Basically they are when are children were born and when I had the A and sometimes with work. Generally, he pretty much doesn't. I was flabbergasted. I feel like I haven't spent much time in a comfort zone. I was (not at all sure if this is a normal reaction) really annoyed - I didn't show it though. Some of the annoyance I know comes from feeling that I've had to work at things for so long, emotionally, mentally and physically. Because I care, because I want change, because I want to do better, because I'm not good enough, because, because, because.

I know I'm probably flogging this subject to death but it's bringing up different feelings.

So here is the telling nugget in your post.

Because you are not good enough?
What is this about?
Where is this message coming from?
Is this from Family of Origin lingering issues?

Have you been to councelling? I may be off base here but it sounds to me like you are looking for affirmation for something you are doing. Is the motivation that you are wanting reassurance that you are OK / Acceptable / Worthy? These are issues that need to be explored and dealt with. You have survived an affair and you are looking at rebuilding your relationship. The issues that caused your discontent are still there. You have been distracted temporarily dealing with the crisis in your relationship. So now comes the hard work of getting to the root of the issues that caused you to seek out an affair / separate etc. There is something that is causing you discomfort and disatisfaction and that is causing you to feel unhappy with your situation. .

Why?

Nowisthemoment to get to the root issues. I don't know what they are, you may not be aware of what they are. It looks to me you need help uncovering them, or you will continue to limp through life with this wound you carry with you.

Good luck and God Bless you and your family

Hi BCB

Thanks for taking time out to respond. How are things your end? Are you and your W still getting along? Are you still planning on going away?

I have worked through the "not good enough" thing a lot and, honestly, don't have that many issues with it. I know it's my dodgy old thinking.

Faking it till you make it is getting old. My feelings are barely changing but my thinking is more positive. I guess this is the stuff of hard work and with all that has gone on recently, I guess I'm just a little tired of it all. We are struggling not to return to the old rut.

Saw the Doc today and I am delaying the anti-d a little longer. Trying to work on some other options for now.

As I mentioned before. Fake it till you make it is a temporary strategy to get you through a tough time until you can get to the root of the issue. If you don't get to the root just like the tooth ache it will surely start to ache until you get to the root.

I am planning on going away still. My wife and I are still very cordial, in fact we have gone on a couple of dates recently. And it seems the OM is not so interesting any longer.

Who knows what the future holds. There are things in this life we don't have control over. So in the mean time, it provides an opportunity for us to dream, and then to follow those dreams. I have never been too good at dreaming. I have been good at being a workhorse so it is now time to develop in the other areas of my life.

Look after yourself, and watch that stinky thinking.

God Bless you and your family.

Nowis, have you read the Basic Concepts on the site? Would you consider getting the books SAA and HNHN? They have a planthat is proven to restore the in-love feelings that you are looking for, affair-proofing your marriage. Are you willing to continue making thoughtful requests, and negotiating to get your needs met? Or in the depression do you just give up, feeling that it's hopeless and projecting that into "he doesn't want to hear you, anyway."

When you had that discussion about your H's comfort zones, it would have been a perfect time for you to step up and discuss YOUR discomfort over the years. IMO, that is the only way you'll ever have a decent marriage. Which is supposed to be of best friends and with total honesty. Do the hard work of baring your soul with him.

Ears

Yes, read SAA but not HNHN - only completed the questionnaire. We got the 5 languages of love which someone recommended to my H. I said perhaps we could read it together. H said he would read it first. He hasn't read it yet (as of yesterday - he's been too busy). Yes, maybe it's depression, maybe it's just reality biting. This is where it's at. I know my H is tired of it generally. He wants a quiet life and he wants to have fun. He doesn't really see things as him working at it. Afterall, he loves me, why are there issues? So, I say, 'yes, why are there issues? Why can't I just get on with it? Why can't I just be happy that he loves me?'. Yet it doesn't work. So I try to fix myself and my stinky thinking.



I guess this is what we need to do. I guess the HNHN book goes into lots more detail? I guess I can just work on it for now?

Maybe it's just another hump to get over, maybe we're both just rather tired right now. I won't give up but I have temporarily stalled.

Catperson

You are right. We have this unspoken pattern of him expecting me to be just fine because he loves me and afterall he stayed with me after the A, he provides for me and the children so I should be happy and love him back. It's very simple for him. I then feel that yes, I should be happy and grateful and not say, actually I'm not getting much from you. I just exist a lot.

When I say, date night and I want to get to know you and laugh and be lighthearted he then perhaps feels like a failure again? However, I now know he has to come out of his comfort zone to do that with me?!

So then I do the same old pattern in my head of 'shut up and be happy'. Baring my soul makes him fed up of me and then I get fed up of myself. I don't want to keep saying this is not quite working I want it to be better but it's the truth - I need more from him - not more stuff or money just him.

I know I have to work on changing but after all we've been through I wonder why he feels he doesn't have to do much about us.

The 5 Love languages is a wonderful book. If you have it, I encourage you to read it. It made me happier, to focus my effort getting myself out of my depression. For example, quality time for me is big. You already knew that you enjoyed exercise, but for me, I didn't realize on my own that this was something that I could do to spend quality time alone and feel good about myself. I learned from that book that my kids are UA time folks, too, so I can target my energy with them, too. Doing things together like taking the dog to the dog park with them means a lot to them, so I could plan more things like that.

It also is so similar to HNHN, that it really validated my confidence in MB, seeing that these are sound. And I liked how the author used scripture to support the message, again, validating to me that these ideas are universal truths that can help any situation.

Love Busters is the book that goes more into detail on Thoughtful Requests, Respectful Persuasion, and Negotiation. These ideas are covered really thoroughly in the Basic Concepts available for free on the site, too. Let me know if you have trouble finding them. There's a Search Our Site button towards the top right corner of the page, too.

He doesn't have to. But you can ask him, anyhow, to do it for you, to make you happy. Ask him what would make him enthusiastic about doing this for you. Not because he has to. But because it's part of his integrity, his values, to step out of his comfort zone just to make you happy.

Well, we talked briefly about stuff again last night. H is rather ticked off right now because he's having to think, talk and come out of his comfort zone. He's not happy and we haven't had SF for a week. It's typical of us that when things are unsettled between intimacy goes out of the window. I don't know what to do now - I don't know how to get change that. What should I do now?

Remain steady on your course of self-validation and self-protection. Do NOT back down, apologize, or do whatever he wants you to do to make up to him. At least not unless he is doing the same for you. This is your time to fix your relationship and put yourself on an equal level with him. Don't waste it.

Is it possible to have a disagreement without getting upset or mad?

Here is my opinion on how a guy might think.
My suggestion is to engage in SF with him. If he is a typical guy this is a biggie for connecting with ones spouse. Then in a non confrontational manner say " You know what I need?" or "Do you know what would make me love you more?". I am not totally sure where you guys are at but the shadow of the A is still lingering and it will be affecting your husbands emotions. He needs to know you still love him, he will likely continue to tell you he does love you but he is probably feeling insecure about your relationship. What kind of approach could you make where he would be receptive to the message?

So what is coming out of his comfort zone look like? If he is not wanting to then he is feeling insecure or feeling anxiety about some change in pattern. He has a pattern that works for him and changing that is disruptive. Sounds like he may be an efficient type of guy and needs to understand the benefit of making the change or introducing something new. I am sure you can figure out a way of "selling" your idea or need.


I agree you need to talk to him about getting what you need. I think you can get what you need, if it were me I would like it clear. Pick the top one or two things he can do in the next two days that would make you happy, not a long list at this time, this is damage control. You two need to work out the rhythm of your relationship. You did not figure it out before and you are having to figure it out now. And it probably has to be done in bite size pieces. You are probably feeling tired and impatient and want things to be better, but this is going to take time. This is the discipline in a relationship.

He may have a lot of other issues on his mind as he does travel and it sounds like he has a pretty intense job. This is not easy. I did this too and it is stressful, and being male it is likely he is not going to let anyone know if it is a tough go. Is his job affecting how he is responding to you right now? We males try not to let it impact our home lives but it does.

Good luck

Just thought of this
I took a seminar recently and the presenter pointed out how men of my generation think about what their job is in marriage.
1) Provide
2) Protect

Once those two are looked after then our job is done. We have not made the transition to the new way of year 2000 relationship realities.

My Grandmother puzzled aloud during a family gathering when my cousin was separating from her husband "I don't understand it, he has a job, there is food in the fridge, they have a house, money for clothes." That was it. That was the expectation of her for a successful marriage. Now men have to be able to be aware of how to meet the emotional needs of their spouse. We no longer live in tight knit communities where we get together and work as a group, (women cooked the meals and men worked in the fields) so now it is up to the husband to meet all the needs that were once met by a community (a theory anyway).

So sure your husband is nervous. He is afraid of failing. Getting out of the comfort zone means "you are expecting me to do something that I may not be good at or might fail at and then you will be disapointed with me". He already feels he has disappointed you.

That is why SF is important to us guys. It is our vote of confidence that you still love us. And it gives us a chance to be tender after. And perhaps if you can use the pillow talk time to appeal to him to do some things that will improve your relationship then good. Be very careful using the pillow talk time. This is a time to be gentle and caring and suggest, do not let it sound like criticism. E.G. "I really do love spending more time with you, I was thinking it would be fun to ______ with you, and then after that we can maybe go to lovers leap and make out in the car like teenagers". I don't know but I hope my rambling can help in some way.

Blessings

Catperson

I will hold firm. Self doubt, guilt and a huge dollop of here we go again makes me want to check out and actually I have rather.

I'll try to get back with it. It's hard.