HE does not need to learn how to trust you again. YOU did not do anything wrong. (am I forgetting something here? What is it that you think you did wrong?)

As I recall, didn't he cheat on you before? Several years ago? What were the details surrounding that time frame? What happened, and how did you guys deal with it?

You are definately gaining your strength. It is good to see you standing up for yourself more. give yourself a pat on the back!

But do not put yourself down any longer, or take credit for his bad behavior. Do not tell him that HE can learn to trust you. You are letting him off the hook. That is a temporary patch, which could potentially bring him home for awhile. But not for long, because he would not be doing the things he needs to do to recover your M.


this man is in his 40's, and acting like a child. Unbelieveable.
My sister, you have got to take a good look at this situation.
this grown man, a H, a father, goes to a M counselor with you and when the counselor leaves the room he swears at you!?! You have every right to look him in the eye and say "I will not sit here and listen to you talk to me like this. I am not talking to you like that, I ask that you stop talking to me like that" do not get angry, do not raise your voice. Just let him know that you will not listen to that language any longer.

About all of his ugly little texts. I am glad that you are not taking the bait and getting into a fight with him. But I would suggest that you let him know you are not ignoring him, or playing games. You are simply trying to protect your heart, and your feelings.

For instance:
reply:
I am not trying to play games with you, or ignore you. This is not a game to me. This is my life. I am just not going to respond when you trying to hurt my feelings.


I just don't even know what to say to this one. He is acting like a spoiled little brat.Just some thoughts I have:

1. what plan did the two of you come up with for visiting the children? whatever it is, get it written down, and stick to it. dont be mean about it - but try to get some sort of schedule going for the kids. They must be very confused right now.

2. do not allow him to use the F word or call you a B---- any longer. Period. You will not call him names from this day forward, and he will not call you names.
something like:
"WH, please do not call me names any longer, it hurts my heart. I understand that your are upset, but I really need to protect my heart from any further pain."

another thing - Be strong about his R with that BF. Do not cave in to him because: "it is a job,and he needs the money" or, "we agreed to have seperate friednships" or any of that garbage.
it sure looks to me like he is slowly trying to convince you that it is ok for him to continue this friendship with the OW. You know better than that. he carried this friendship too far, and your M can not survive it.

You are not just trying to get him back, at any cost. You only wnat him back if he can treat you well. You need to stop ignoring his bad behavior and address it. You are not trying to control him, or his life. But you can control yourself, and your own life. and that means you do not let people live in your hosue if they are going to treat you badly.

"WH, I am not trying to control you. If you want to swear at people, then go ahead. but for me, and my life, I will not surround myself with people who talk to me like that. I want to have you around, but not if you are going to talk to me like that. And if you want to continue this relationship with BF, then go ahead. But I will not continue to be a part of that. I am not telling you to stop, I am just telling you that as long as you have an ongoing relationship with her, you will not have a relationhip with me."

how are you doing????

Hi WOF,

Well, it was going great there for a while. I loved your response and memorised your tips and unfortunately, got to use them today.

SF Thursday at lunch and we kissed with more passion than we've had in years. His eyes sparkled when he looked into mine and it was my H, not WH, back from planet X.

We met yesterday for lunch and it was great. I was confident and filling his $LB$ and he loved it. He told me at the end of lunch that he had a fantastic and spending time with me and kissed me.

My sister was staying last night but he still turned up for tea with the kids and hung around till midnight just being, well, DH.

He left to go and gave me another hug and kiss and said he'd see us at swimming today.

All was great and then I caught him out on a lie. He said he was going to x for a gig with her band when he had told me he was going to y. Difference of 2 hour drive and of couse, I assume they will go together.

Anyway, he overreacted, I asked him for a dialogue about it and he wouldn't give me a time in the next 24 hours which is the rules.

I left the house to go to the shops and just dropped it. Came home, took the other car out to put fuel in it for him as I had left it empty and just stayed cool. Actually, I was happy so he told me that I was being fake to which I replied that I asked for a dialogue and dropped it and was actually being myself. He was very mad and threw his things in the car and told me I was crazy etc.

I can't remember much, just that it's Saturday, the day he pays for another weeks accommodation AND he's going to be spening most of the night with the OW. He told me he's going with the base player, not her. BUT I'M NOT STUPID. They might go as a group but he will be trying hard to get her attention. Something tells me that it hasn't been all rosey with her because he has been turning to me more and I see more DH than WH.

The point was he lied to me and wants me to trust him. I just saw in TMTS's post that all Waywards lie - that's what they do and trying to believe anything through the fog is just pointless and will only hurt me.

So, I cried, got a few nasty text messages, used your awesome response about not ignoring him, protecting feelings and heart and went to my parents house with the kids to chill out.

I'm home and no longer teary. Just really confused and disappointed that we're still on the rollercoaster.

I really felt like we were getting closer and I think he did too. My Pastor said that he might be pushing back because he doesn't want to make my changes and that coming home means accepting that he might have been wrong. I agree. He still wants me to accept that he and OW are friends and that it can continue.

WH told me there would be no dialogue tomorrow as he has given me too many chances and I will never change.

He did give me two nights a week and a Saturday for days with the kids so that's a bonus.

AARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! This is so hard.

I would love some positive support and hope if anyone has any to share. This is really tough.

I want to add the two text messages he sent me to see if anyone can comment on clues as to what he needs from me:-

"Tuesday's and Thursday's are my nights with the kids. Saturday's is the day. I could not hate you more right now if I tried. You broke all of MC's rules as well as your own on paper with kids and separation rules. That was your last chance to be blown. I am shaking because of you."

"I would ask you not do all of the things that you did today but it would be useless. Make all the ramblings you want to justify what you always do but its all B$hit. You'll bever be right and you'll always treat me like $hit and a f-up. You're the f-up now however."

All I did was ask for a Dialogue and he said no. I did push him to make a time because that's the rules (the time part, not pushing). But, then I completely dropped it. That's not like the old me at all but I just left and kept it light and happy when I got back.

He started to get mad in front of the kids and when he kicked my bag into the garage I told my kids that daddy tripped. He maintains they didn't see it and I was telling them information against him.

I don't know what to do.

Is it time for Plan B?

My Forum is next weekend and I think he is already scared about me changing there and not wanting him back. It goes from Friday till Sunday and he is looking after the kids for me.

Our family is going to Adelaide on 30 October for a long weekend (till Tuesday) for my cousins wedding. It was booked months ago so WH was included. We don't talk about it and I have no idea anymore if he is going or not.

My dad said tonight that he shouldn't if he is not committed to the marriage, I think he's right.

Should I go into Plan B after the Forum, or will the effect be lost because he expects it or do I wait until we leave for Adelaide and cancel his ticket?

MC made us commit to 3 months but that takes us to end of December and he has been living out of the house now for over 5 weeks this time.

I think that he is getting back to H but he is still in the heavy fog. He still sees a friendship with OW and has joined another band with her. That could be 4 nights a week now. It's ridiculous and completely goes against my wishes. I want him to stop hurting me but I feel that she is actually shutting him down and perhaps this is his way to get closer. Maybe things are not so good? Maybe wishful thinking on my part too.

Advice really needed please.

It's almost 9am and I did not hear from him last night. I really hoped I would and almost welcomed good or bad just for the contact.

I'm off to church with my sister so between us we'll have 4 kids under 4 at a new Christian church just up the road. Mum and dad are on a Goldwing ride so I thank God that my sister called me to drag me out and stop wallowing in self pity.

I feel so sad today and hopeless and close to tears.

hi

Your h is trying to confuse the issues by being unpredictable.In other words he is trying to take control in order to further his own agenda.

You really need to get your ducks in a very definite row.

Duck no 1 Is NO access to bank a/c.Well done there. Hang on to that .

Duck no 2
Is not to pay for his housekeeping expenses i.e. food and petrol

Duck no 3
Read W.O.F last post She is asking some very important questions The answers to which will be basic to all further ducks.She knows what she is talking about. Answer the questions and we will try to help you to deal with a very difficult situation

P.S. Remember you are a ROCK not a MARSHMALLOW

Take care and look after yourself

Admittedly, I'm not familiar with your sitch. But unless you have actually gone into Plan B by the family wedding, and WH is willing to go, I think you should let him.

It would be hard for you to have him there, no question, but he would have lots of memories inescapably thrown at him, as well. Hopefully including the words FORSAKING ALL OTHERS!!! It wouldn't be a magic cure-all pill, but it might make a good close to your Plan A, if you're still in it.

Leave him thinking of beautiful brides in white, love, and promises, then stomp his serving of cake into the dust as you cut him off without a crumb of comfort from being with you.

Good for you for being willing to do this. It's a hard step to take, but Plan B is awesomely powerful!

I didn't do anything wrong but I think that it was my way of telling him to be trustworthy without a LB - Looking back, it was the wrong thing!


Yes, he cheated with a younger woman, someone he was recording with. It started 2 moonths after we found out I was pregnant. He maintains that I pushed him into having kids before he was ready even though we both planned to have kids and had been together for 2 years prior. The timing was discussed and agreed to and I didn't hold him down for 4 months! He cheated, I moved in with my parents. We had a couple of IC sessions but our MC was hitting on him too so we quit. I waited for nearly 3 months and then he asked me to come home. He stayed in the other room and then our DD was born a month early. We got home from the hospital and he moved into the bedroom with us. It took 2 months for him for NC with the OW. With hindsight I know I was doing PLAN A or my version of it at least. There has been NC since but we just swept it under the carpet. He did become transparent and I had access to everything. I never stopping snooping or questionning things and I think he took that to be too controlling. He said that if I kept picking at it we would never heal so I figured that was the right thing to do. I never exposed to anyone and didn't know about MB.

Actually, I remember sitting with him on the couch here about 7 months ago and I said that I didn't really trust him and the changes. I think that was the start of things going badly because he felt secure and loving and I still felt hurt and had a foreboding that he would have another A. I think I actually brought it on and made him go down that path.

Oh, I wish I could remember this at the time!


Duck no 2
I got my car back today and because we had swapped for the night it kind of zeroed out the fuel exchange.

As for food, if we go out we take it in turns.

Duck no. 3 has been answered above. I hope this helps. Our mutual friend said to me that WH always knows how to control me and ultimately get what he wants out of situations with me - ie. I'm a doormat.

Should I ask him to attend or ask him if he is attending? I kind of feel like either will be wrong. He said about a month ago that he would not attend and I have ignored it and planned for our trip regardless. I figure one less person will not change the plans, just break my heart.


I would love to have the option to do it this way. We would have great memories from our trip away too which is golden for plan A.

I just don't know how to ask him or if I should just assume he is coming or let him know that we have planned the trip without him.

Today's update:

He texted me this morning to ask how DD's eye was (injured yesterday in the bath) and if I was still taking the kids to see his mum today. I sent back a happy light message saying that the new church was awesome, DD was doing great and only a small black eye and that I was still visiting his mum.

He wrote back "Thanks babe".

Ok, so I was confused to say the least.

I called him as we left his mum's this afternoon as the plan was to meet and swap cars in the city. I suggested the beach and he agreed. I went with TMTL's tip on creating ideallic family situations for plan A overdrive.

We met up and took the kids into the sand and watched some kites. I was very playful with the kids and was truly living in the moment and living it up. Headed off to the coffee shop and I asked him how the gig was. He gave quite a bit of info and it sounded like the truth. Said that the base player drove and the guitarist and BF were in the car too. I know they were because I made a prank call and could hear the other voices, both male and female.

I sat with the kids and he bought us mochas and babycinos and cookies for the kids and a pie for each of us. I only asked for a coffee and DD asked for a smiley face cookie and he did the rest which was really nice.

We sat and chatted and I completely ignored his comment about only being there to see the kids. Within minutes he had let his guard down and it was great.

We packed up, headed back to the cars and loaded the kids. I was putting DS in his seat and WH DD. He said to DD to look after mummy because she is beautiful and really needs her to be good and be a big help.

I was weirded out so I went to the other car and then walked back and realised he was taking a photo of me. He showed me the photo and said it was because my skirt was the same colour (red) as the brake light on the convertible!

Then, he kissed me on the lips and gave me an enormous hug, then moved into view of the kids so that they could see it too. He was off to Band A rehearsal (with the mutual friend) and told kids he would see them on Tuesday night.

Ok, so what is the go here?

He just called to see how I was and asked if I got his text to the kids which was a photo of himself and a message saying hi to them.

He mentioned dialogue and asked if now was ok. So, we did. I told him how his lying made me feel and that most of all I wanted honesty right now.

He told me that he lied because he doesn't like me being overbearing, jealous, insecure and assuming that there is something going on with BF when there is nothing going on. He didn't like me railroading him when he said no to a dialogue yesterday and hated it when I got fuel for him.

It was a good dialogue. I got an insight as to what he doesn't like about me and I guess they are things that I can learn and work on.

It's effective because it's safe. You just say your piece sentence by sentence and your partner repeats everything, no judgement, no rights or wrongs. Then you summarise feelings and empathise then swap. He really listened to me and I found it was me who got distracted today. The Imago work is great and it seems to be helping.

Bottom line, once you air your feelings and know you are heard, you feel better and are able to regroup and move on a little more.

I don't know where we are headed or if Plan A is having an effect, but I hope that we're getting somewhere, hopefully together.

I know that I shouldn't have argued with him yesterday. I should have just ignored it and asked for a dialogue and brought it up then. Our day would have been very different yesterday.

Living apart is hard because I don't have many times for Plan A and when we're apart I miss him like crazy and when we're together I over analyse things.

He hasn't mentioned divorce or even moving into his own place for a while now. I don't know what he does all day so it could all be happening in the background but I live in hope that he is making changes and becoming a man of integrity - which is what he wanted to do with his time on his own to find himself. Sheesh, if only that was the only problem!

No expectations...!

He's most likely jealous, yes.

He kissed you on the lips??? Great, your Plan A is having an effect - but that works both ways. He blew up and blamed you for everything under the sun including but not limited to global warming??? Great, your Plan A is having an effect!

Any reaction he has, good or bad, is a good sign. Cold and indifferent is bad. That = detatched. The sooner you get past that, and into a state of conflict, with its ups and downs, the better.

Now, his kiss was probably also intended to gaslight you into thinking that he couldn't POSSIBLY be involved with anyone else while he's smooching you, so OF COURSE he is telling you the truth. (NOT!!!)

So just keep giving him cake when you can, lovingly confront with any new A evidence that turns up, though usually not revealing your source and destroying an avenue of intel, and keep getting ready for B-day.

You're doing good!

Just realized I didn't answer your other question.

If you can stand having him there, text or tell him when everyone is leaving, and say, "I hope you'll come with us." Then leave it a that.

He'll either come or not, but he'll know he was still invited. That alone is worth something.

Yippee!!!!!!! My heart sings today after reading your message. I tried a plan A last night and sent him a text message saying thanks for the chat and that he has become an awesome listener. I said I hoped he was enjoying the car and good night.

No response, but I had no expectations so it didn't matter.

We have been having weekly SF and I hadn't thought that it was to throw me off. With his first A he didn't want to be with me in that way at all and said it felt wrong.

He's definately moved on from cold so I'm happy. Hate the rollercoaster but if it's part of the ride to save my marriage, I'm staying on it!

I completely stuffed up and exposed my intel secrets last month and have lost access to his online mobile bill. When I had access I asked for a paper copy to be sent to the house so I hope he has left that on...

I'll find a good time this week to ask him to come to Adelaide and just wait and hope. I was dreaming a lot last night about being at a wedding together and him feeling something. Hope it comes true.

Thanks for your posts Neak. I'm thrilled to have you on my board and knew you already as I have read your story and you have given me hope!

Just called him to reschedule the MC earlier tomorrow to fit in with work. He was fine with that and HE kept ME on the phone for 13 mintues just talking about stuff. Weird, but oh so great!

I got the feeling he was trying to keep talking, but I finished the call whilst we were happy and things were sweet.

He asked if I was looking forward to the Forum and I said YES, very much. He said it was really long and he felt sorry for me. I said that the only thing that bothered me was spending the whole weekend without the kids and missing them so much. He said that he could bring them down for the tea break and we could meet somewhere and hang out. He is working Sat night and Sun afternoon and night so logistically it might not work, but it was sure nice of him to offer!

He just called again to update me on the car situation and just chat about stuff. He talked over me three times when I tried to wind it up.

Is he reaching out? Is he lonley?

I know that the BF has her phone switched off for about 23.5 hours a day and have not been able to catch it on in the last 5 days. Not to say they are not talking, he sees her at gigs, but maybe she thinks he is being too clingy and is trying to cool it?

I know not to talk R or A, do not pressure or try to educate, so what do I do? I am staying light, happy and confident and trying to be the lighthouse again.

Updated to say he's called again. I am obviously his rock today and he is turning to me for my opinion on lots of things. This was about some job applications he is sending. He really wants to get into luxury car sales with BMW or Mercedes and he would be fabulous at it. I helped him with his cv last week and he's sending them off today. I figure that a full time job might be just the thing to help him to grow up and take responsibility so I decided to plan A and help as much as possible.

You're doing good, and he's noticing.

I'm glad my story could give you hope. Less than 4 years ago I was right where you are. Now....wow, has it been that long already?....my DH loves me, and I love him.

hi ya,

sorry for the T/J

Neak, could you please email me if its ok.


[/TJ]