You need to find out about eyebrow threading. It should be part of every woman's toolbox.

From now on you need to take 30 mins a day to put you first. This is not in order to win your H back; this is about YOU. Do not give up being a first class mother, and wife when that time returns, but always make yourself look your best for the day's circumstances, early in the day. When you get back from school in the mornings do the most desperate housework just to make the place look tolerable and then put on some slap. Do not leave this task until late in the afternoon when every job is done. If each time you look in the mirror you see your prettiest self looking back, you'll smile at yourself and feel better.

Plan your pedicures and other treatments for regular slots and stick to them. Eyebrows need to be threaded at between two and three weeks, depending on the eyebrows in question.

Walking is very highly recommended by health experts. Also, it's good for you to get out in winter when there is little daylight. I find winter sunlight on a cold, sharp morning very uplifting.

Of course, there's your mind to take care of too. Perhaps you can get to an art gallery or public lecture when H is visiting the girls, but I can promise you that the quickest and biggest boost to your self esteem will come from looking better than ever.

So you're tall, as well as slim? You've got a head start at gorgeousness, then.

I hope someone will be here before tomorrow with informed advice about seeing the boss. I would just ask you to think about the long term outcome.

By that I don't mean don't do it. I think you should do it, but you'll have to accept that she will move back home. Where else could she go?

That would mean a house move for you. You cannot stay in the same area as her. Are you prepared to do this?

I plot and plan and worry about outcomes to the nth degree. I know I take this too far sometimes, taking forever to make a final decision. However, I think you might borrow a little of my strategic attitude. Try to see where events will take you so that you are not taken by surprise.

Nuke her job and then get working on that sign. I have some poster paint that you can borrow, and I'm sure black_raven will be able to supply some choice phrases.

By all means, expose. I have it secondhand from SH that exposure can be very effective in PB, because you don't have to be there to deal with the fallout, WS anger, etc. You're safe and dark, while the A-world deals with the shattering effects of a good exposure.

You are so right that it's his job to build a bridge if one is to be built. You've already built your part, and he will either join you or not.

Don't torment yourself about him meeting her. Easy to say, I know. Yes, he's doing everything you think he is, but it's not your problem any more. Even when he wants to come back, it's his job to show you that he's now being trustworthy.

Wait and see where OW is when the A ends. It doesn't affect you at all right now, and at that time you can make an informed choice as to whether moving is necessary. If she is in the area, then yes, you'll need to move if you are to recover, but that's a question for another day.

GET THE NUKES READY BABY!!!

Tully,
I have never posted to you, but have been following your thread.

You are FABULOUS!!!!

You have such deep strength and courage. I cannot tell you how impressed I am with you and your ability to carry through on your plans. I am sorry that your H is such an a$$ right now. I am praying that he wises up before it's too late.

Have you read Charlotte22's thread? She uses the name DancingMachine now, but the thread title still uses Charlotte22.
You NEED to read it. She went to Plan B last year about this time. Unfortunately, she is now getting a D. The MIRACLE though is in what Plan B did for HER. Honestly, I am not exaggerating!!

Find her thread and read it. Nothing short of amazing and inspirational!!! It is not that Plan B CHANGED her. It just allowed her to be removed from the drama and helped her remember WHO SHE WAS!

This is what Plan B can do for YOU. Do all you can do to avoid thinking about what your WH is doing. He is inhabited by an alien and he is thoroughly addicted to the disgusting OW.

Indulge yourself in YOU right now. Then, WHEN and IF your H smartens up, you will have 2 advantages: 1) You will be FEELING wonderful, even without him. and 2)It will TRULY be YOUR choice to be back with him or NOT as the case may be. DO NOT underestimate how important those two advantages can be to you. In the end, if he comes back, you can have a stronger marriage because you VALUE and respect yourself.

I am applauding wildly your decision to tell the Big Boss.

If the OW loses her precious career, that is HER doing, not yours. The consequences of adultery are far-reaching. When someone CHOOSES to throw morality aside, more "things" often happen than they ever anticipated. And the one thing that seldom happens is "happily ever after" with their adultery partner.

My H is still surprised by the depth and breadth of the pain and trouble his A caused.

As an aside, both my H and I are "very" Irish(especially me. ALL my ancestors are from the Emerald Isle)and I wish we could see your home. AND, my DDIL's first language is FRENCH, so I have to learn French to speak to my future grandchildren. I feel like we have a few things in common and I am praying for you.

Blessings,
WH2LE

Wow! I agree YOU ARE FABULOUS!!

I have rarely seen a BS work so hard and so fast and seem to take the right steps to fight hard for their M. I know it confuses people that you are acting in ways to end your M...and that is true, to a degree, you are ending your M the way it stands now, as a triangle. And you are fighting hard for a twosome again. But this twosome will come without the third party attached.

I have hope for this future. You have seen a taste of the fog lifting. While the WH and OW may seem in bliss, if you were only a fly on the wall...the lies they have to tell themselves and each other to stay together. Those lies eventually implode. And it won't be long for the OW to start making demands about the "future" and here he thought it was just a fling...

Be prepared for the Big Boss, WH may have pre-empted you with damage control...explained his situation from the waywards side ("we were having problems for awhile, she decided to move out...OW and I are just friends and she's been a support...") yuk. Don't take anything for granted...

You are doing GREAT!!

You are fabulous.

Hi tully,

On deciding whether to nuke OW, it all comes down to what you can and can't live with. For me, I was at a point where I didn't care if I recovered my marriage or not...I wanted OW to never be near my kids and for them to have a better father than the POS one they had then so I was going to nuke whoever I had to. I never had to really nuke OW because my FWH dropped her like a hot potato. Waywards come up with all sorts of bull and threats. If you blow up OW's career could your WH claim that as the reason you went too far and he's done?...yeah...doesn't mean it's the real reason rather than an excuse. And if your WH is really more concerned over poor trampy's career and feelers than his wife...well [censored] him. I was more concerned about my personal recovery more than my marital recovery but I don't know if that's where your heart and mind are.

I know you love your H. I love mine too but there's only so much a person can take and I wasn't going to be in a marriage where he was pining away for another woman and feeling like crap for it. If I were you, I would blast OW into oblivion but I'M NOT YOU. You have to decide if you could live with the WH's possible choice to end your M over this but what are you really losing if that's his mentality?

I never did plan B by MB standards. H and I were already on the road to recovery by the time I found MB so maybe so others who did plan B will chime in with their experience. You can nuke OW and still remain dark with H. He'll be angry so let him go nuts and you work on healing yourself and protect yourself from his foggy drama.

Whether you feel vindictive or not, I believe exposure is the right thing to do. I also believe it should be done regardless of feelings, whether good or bad.

Gosh, I didn't expect this kind of support. Thank you all. I've been thinking about things this evening and I'm so glad that you think I'm doing the right thing because I think so too. Wish me luck tomorrow, I'll update you on the meeting when I get back. And, black raven, I think I'm with you on this. Of course he'll be angry but if that's the straw that breaks us then the relationship wasn't worth salvaging. Also, as a final point I don't think it will break us, he has been so provocative towards me that I get the impression that (subconsciously) he almost wants me to be the one who breaks up our M but he doesn't have the guts to do it himself. He's too weak. (but he wasn't always this way)
I've got to keep my cool tomorrow though and get my point across without anger or accusations. He's a logical, intelligent man who can join the dots himself.

Tully,

I don't really have much to offer other then to let you know that I am still here following your sitch. I continue to be amazed by your strength. Keep thinking about the narrow path. You are doing absolutely the best that you can. Doesn't guarantee success but you are giving it the best chance there can be. I also agree with Neak that exposure is good even while in PB. Go see the big boss and fill him in. Be tactful and polite. Show the big boss that you are fighting for your M and your family. After you get back from that meeting borrow Sugar's paint and get to work on that sign!!!

Best of luck to you!

Mindshare

I hope it's not too late for you to see this before you leave for Dublin.

Remember that this man already thinks highly of you. Remember that you have all of us from your thread and your family supporting you.

If you think you might get a bit tearful, make sure your mascara is waterproof!

You are 100% correct, and this is normal for who and what he is right now. A WS is often too weak to make the final break, instead hoping someone else will make the choice for them.

Hugs and prayers with your meeting.

Well I wanted to give you all an update on the meeting of today. As it happened it was a bit of a disappointment. I met up with Big Boss and told him the story. He was very sympathetic and great. He cancelled his next appointment to continue our conversation and despite his bear-like appearance and mannerisms he is also very soft-hearted. However, he also told me that he had an A about 10 years ago with a colleague who now lives in the US so he has a certain kind of sympathy also for WH and OW (it was clear that he still has fond feelings for his own OW even though the A is fully over) The difference is that he told his own wife about the A but only when it was already on the decline. Also he said that he never contemplated leaving his wife (plus his children were more or less grown up) and made that clear to the OW. Finally the OW accepted the end of the A easily (probably because it had fizzled out anyway) He continued to have some intermittant contact with the OW, as a friend rather than a lover he said, for a while (a phone call every 3 months or so) which he said upset his wife immensely (he said that he always told her when he did but he sounded vaguely surprised that this might upset her so much) I said that I understood her entirely as an A is the most painful experience that a H could ever subject his W to and he physically flinched at that as if he couldn't bear to face that fact. He seemed to be advising patience and to allow the A to blow over as he was sure it would and then WH would come back to me because that was what made sense. But he also wasn't entirely convinced by my insistence on NC.

He said that he didn't believe that it was possible to eliminate these feelings overnight, just because the A was out in the open, that it took time for the embers to die down. I said that I understood that but that I was asking for was that he stop fuelling the fire through contact.

Anyway,I'm coming to the point eventually, he said that he would be willing to talk to either WH or OW (this one more reluctantly as he doesn't know her very well) on my behalf if I wanted him to but he wouldn't tell them I talked to him. I think I have planted seeds of doubt in his mind about OW but his own mildly foggy thinking is not helping matters. I have no idea what kind of a marriage he has. I know his wife and she is a very airy-fairy arty woman who makes art out of things like egg-cartons and hangs them on her wall but she has a surprising common-sensical side that's there too. Maybe if he goes home this evening she might make him see matters a bit more clearly but I'm not banking on it.

WH rang this evening and spoke to the girls. They got quite upset afterwards especially the eldest and we talked about things. They want to go home to their friends and school and all the familiar things although they are not unhappy here. It was hard for me especially as I feel that my heart and mind is starting to drift from WH. I tried to explain and they asked me more questions about OW. Everyone is great here but logistically it's not always easy to fit 5 extra people into a house not particularly adapted to children. Sorry, I'm not complaining and it is liveable but as time goes on it feels less like a 'holiday' to the girls.

Sugar, you raised the issue earlier about what I would be prepared to accept. I fear that WH will attempt a reconciliation with promises of NC and efforts to reconstruct for selfish reasons; because he knows that this is the best thing for him, not because he cares at all for my feelings. And I don't think I can live with that. I'm also afraid, Neak, that unintentionally he will continue to provoke me into destructing our M. I hate this situation. Sometimes I think what I need is a clean slate but then I see the tears and upset in the children.

Black raven and posse, I would love to put up the 'Slut for sale' sign outside her house but I don't know where she lives but I have had a completely crazy idea. I was thinking about how upset the children were this evening and the thought occured to me that now that I know where she works precisely (in an open plan lab) I could go to see her with the 4 children one day and announce in a loud but calm voice that I would like her to leave my husband alone and to stop trying to destroy our family, that he has already told her to go away, can she not get the message?

But then I have another serious urge that I'm doing my best to suppress, to tell him that I no longer want him in my life, heart, bed or anywhere else where I might be.

I can hear how upset you are now, tully. I just want to remind you that your posse is here for you.

Everyone else who posts here has wisdom far exceeding my own. They'll show up soon with suggestions for next steps.

Affairs are crap, aren't they?

Tully, it sounds as if it was a draining day - well done on getting through it and coping so well.

It also sounds as if the Boss's support can't be what you need, as it doesn't seem as if he's understood the damage that A's do. You really needed him to have an emotional reaction, but if he's cheated himself and not properly worked that through, his emotions are likely to be clouded and locked down in that area. Bummer.

OTOH, you showed him - up close and personal - what it's like to be the betrayed one, especially one with four small children. It's not impossible that you've set the first tinglings of some process in place in his mind. Mysterious ways, etc.

Tully, there's a question that's nagging at me, and it's to do with your husband being French. Forgive me if this is stereotyped nonsense, but there's always a perception that the French have a 'relaxed' attitude to infidelity; that older French married men may have a younger mistress, and that this is accepted by the wife. That may be a grotesque urban myth, and a dreadful national slur, but you'd know whether there was any truth to it or not.

I mention it because I'm wondering to what extent your H, and MIL, are conforming to a cultural norm, and are genuinely put out by your non-acceptance. I'm not in ANY way saying that you should accept it - a vow's a vow, whatever language it's taken in - but it may affect the workings of your H's conscience and his empathy with your distress. If he's grown up in a world where having an extra partner is common and accepted, he may feel that ending his sexual relationship with OW is almost virtuous!

None of this may apply, but it's been troubling me.

I'm a Scot living in England, by the way.

TA

It's fun to fantasize about, but IRL don't take the kids to any confrontations.

You did good today, no matter what the boss' reactions were. I agree this may have been a divine appointment for him - a chance to begin making amends for what he did.

{{{{{{{{{{Tully}}}}}}}}}}}}

So Big Boss is fogged himself? Great. :RollieEyes: I'm glad you made him flinch with that comment....unbelievable.

Have you given any thought to returning home? If living with your father because too impractical due to space or whatever will you return to France if your WH agrees to leave the house. You can still do a dark plan B back home but you won't have the family support. If OW is now in Dublin then H has no reason to travel there because the kids will be at home. The question is do you think you could handle being dark with WH in close proximity?

I would have a lot of confidence in her ability to stay dark and do without family support...when her health has sufficiently improved that she is back to 100%.

Neak and Black raven, I think I will be staying here for a while especially given the events of today which I will explain further down. It is so much easier to stay dark here than it would be there and the support here is much greater.

Also Neak, I know you are right about the children. I won't do it but I was trying to lash out.

TA, I get your point about the French attitude and i know where you are coming from. I have had similar doubts about WH's attitude to M and fidelity although he gave me absolutely no cause to worry in the 19 years before. I'm sure I'll find out better when the smoke dies down but the MB forum and site have been a comfort to me on this issue because I see his reactions and thought process so similar to others I see here that I suspect that it's a human thing rather than a national thing. As for my MIL, I'm fairly confident that she is not, in general, tolerant of infidelity but her stubborn defence of WH is more due to the fact that she adores him. He is her golden boy, the brilliant successful student although they are from modest origins. Until now he has only been a cause of pride so she is shocked. Also as I mentioned before she's a bit of a doormat for the 3 men in her life.

Well, where to start? I thought Plan B was supposed to be peaceful and drama-free but today was yet again full of action and emotion.

Last night I spoke to the mediator and said that I thought WH had seen OW on Sat night while he was here to see the kids. Just to recap, he came here at lunchtime on Sat, spent the afternoon with the kids and left in a hurry to go back to Dublin that night. He told the kids that he had a flight on Sunday morning.

Somehow the mediator misunderstood and thought I was talking about Sunday night. She quizzed him up and made him swear on the lives of his children that he had not seen OW on Sunday night, even going so far as to ask for a copy of his booking to prove he came back on sunday. When he did so, she was thrilled and sent it on to me to prove that there had been no contact that night. Except that the booking showed that his flight was at 7.30pm on Sunday so my suspicions were increased.

Then I got a phone call this morning from my MIL basically bawling me out for not trusting WH and for not talking to him when he came and not believing him. (She even said that he had promised her and he couldn't possibly lie to her, his mother! Ha, ha!) I was quite upset over the phone call but I agreed all the same to phone her back that evening so that she could speak to her granddaughters.

I consulted the internet service for our bank account (we have a joint account) fully expecting to find no record of any accommodation for WH for Sat as I thought he would have stayed with her. (Big Boss told me that she was temporarily sharing a flat of some sort with two other people) Instead I found a payment for a hotel outside Dublin by the sea. Also a payment to a cinema complex. I rang the hotel and said that WH and his partner were staying in the hotel on Sat night and that I knew WH had checked out but the partner was still there and could I speak to her. The receptionist said 'no, both of them checked out'. I said 'so she's not there any more'. She said 'no, she's definitely gone'. I asked if it was a double room and she finally clicked that she might have said too much and said 'sorry, I don't think I should tell you any more information'. I said, 'sorry. it's just that she may have transferred to a single room once she was on her own' and she said 'no, she most certainly is no longer in the hotel'. QED

So I then rang MIL this evening as promised and told her this info. I felt it would have much more impact coming from her than coming from the mediator. She was very nice to me (obviously backtracking from the morning) and although she didn't say much against him, I know she was very angry. It's one thing to know someone lied to someone else but it's different when that person lies directly to you, especially given what she had said that morning.

WH rang back later asking to talk to me but I was visiting a neighbour. He then rang my brother who asked me to call over. WH is still doing his best to cover the lies but the great thing about this Plan B and being dark is that he wasn't sure exactly what point he needed to lie about as he was getting the info secondhand. As it happened my brother also had recieved the info secondhand from his wife so he didn't know either what the exact point I had pinned him down on. WH explained that he has a double room only because it was the only one available due to a match. This was not the point. My brother said 'so are you saying that you didn't check in or out as a couple'. He said that he could hear WH's brain ticking over about how to respond to this and then he said 'well, there might be some confusion because a French couple checked out at exactly the same time as me'. Again beside the point. What a fool!

Well, I'm sure he is miserable tonight. He has now lost all credibility with the few people who were still prepared to give him any so it a lonely, lonely life right now. I am starting to see the absolute genius of Plan B here. Me being dark must be agony to him. I am a bit shocked though as I really thought sex between them would have been initiated by her but instead he booked the hotel and paid for it. When is enough enough?

Well, I'm hoping to have nothing to report tomorrow but thank you all again and again for this wonderful advice. My sister said to me this evening how blessed I am to have found this site because, with the best will in the world, my family and friends would have been incapable of giving me the advice you have given me. I hope I can help others as you do when my life calms down.