Good for you for staying!

It might be a great move to go back at some point, if he's willing to leave the house, but you'll have to be totally up to it first.

So wbat happened today? You've got me curious.

Tully, I don't understand. I thought you were in Plan B. Plan B means no contact whatsoever with him, to him, about him or for him, unless it necessary.

Your mediator should not be hounding him for anything but instead just relaying filtered information, i.e., WH will pick up kids at such and such time. Your family members should not be relaying info to you about WH. You should not be seeking info about WH. Dark is dark and works both ways.

Maybe I missed something?

Dear tully,

I'm sorry, but not surprised, to hear about what he did. I have emailed you about a similar experience I had after D Day. Please check your account.

Read PrincesMeggy's post again.
She's 100% correct.
Trying2Live is going through a very similar experience. She was totally stressed out and she changed mediators yesterday or the day before and things are MUCH better for her.

You absolutely should not have any idea when WH's flights are or anything he says. You shouldn't be talking about him to MIL or the mediator or anyone else. You should be DARK.

Tully,

Princessmeggy is sooooo right!!! Why are you sleuthing on him right now? You should not be doing that in Plan B!! Remember, Plan B is designed for you to work on you and to preserve what little love you have left in the LB for WH. Sleuthing and discovering this awful information is only making more withdrawals from the LB!! You are starting to sound more and more like you are bankrupt!!! IF there is anything left in the LB then guard it all costs and do NOT sleuth or talk to the mediator about what WH is doing or not doing. This will destroy your chances for a R although I fear that the damage may already be done. Remember the one thing that I have been constantly repeating to you in my messages.....guard the LB!! Once it is depleted you will be done. Remember what happened to me!! I fear you are headed to the same place if you are not there already.

Stay strong!!

Mindshare

tully, you are going to drive yourself nuts following up on your WH. I KNOW it is hard; I have been there myself. If the mediator continues to pass on more info than needed (scheduled visits with the children or if he's agree to your terms to return home and work on reconcilation) tell her you don't want to hear it. If your family tries to pass on info about what WH said, tell them you don't want to hear it. Tell your family and mediator that you to tell WH that you have nothing to say to him until he agrees to your terms. WH probably thinks they will all wear you down at some point to give in and talk to him. Stand firm. Your WH is giving feeble excuses to justify his behavior and hope it's gets back to you....don't listen to any of it. He KNOWS what he has to do and he hasn't done it so it's all lip service.

I know deep down you are probably dying to know what WH is doing but what is the cost to you? You need to prepare yourself for whatever outcome there is. If WH wakes up and gets onboard to recover the M, you will have to be strong to not let things slide which will be tempting after going through so much. If WH doesn't wake up, then you may want to spend some of this time finding out what your legal rights are should you end up filing for legal separation or D. I'm not saying your M will end but it never hurts to know your rights and where you stand financially and regarding custody.

I'm sorry you are going through this. It just plain sucks.

Hi Tully,

I can understand you wanting to confirm that your husband is still embroiled in this affair, which he is. I would have done the same thing.

But let me point out a few things:

1. Your mediator is NOT your friend, in fact, if you think she IS, or CAN BE your friend, then you are allowing the professional boundaries between you two and the work she is doing FOR YOU to be blurred and ineffective.

2. Your mediator has accidently become ineffective and is acting unprofessionally. Because the professional boundaries between you and your mediator have accidently been destroyed. By you both. It is no one's fault but boundaries are difficult to keep up when you are going thru trauma as you are now.

3. Your mediator is "taking sides" here as shown for one, by her trying to convince YOU and HERSELF that your husband's affair was now over. This is ineffective and unprofessional. A mediators job is not to take sides. Or to try and "help".

4. You need a new mediator now, maybe a man, who will do his job and not be a "friend", be "supportive of either side", be "innefective", be "unprofessional" or act as a "counselor".

5. The other option is to keep this mediator but set very strong boundaries and let her know in writing what she is paid to do and what she is not paid to do. This might be harder since the boundaries have already been broken with you two.

You have accidently allowed this woman to become "unprofessional" due to your inner self needing support and needing a female friend. This is very common and you are not alone in doing this.

She has also allowed this "unprofessional behavior" of herself and does not realize it. What she is doing now, is not what she has been hired to do.

Get rid of her as your mediator, get one that is more rational and professional and then if you want to, you can keep this mediator as a friend instead of a mediator.

Get a new mediator pronto who will not:

1. Counsel you
2. Try and be your friend
3. Support you
4. Support him
5. Sleuth him out
6. Get involved in the affair, etc
7. Get overly involved in the drama of your lives
8. Mess up thier professional boundaries
9. Mess up the job they are hired to do for you
10. Talk about your problems
11. Get in long conversations
12. Try and be close to you
13. Try and HELP you
14. Get upset about your situation
15. Be empathetic to the point of getting involved

Tully, let me add that I feel you really NEED support and supportive women friends right now! But this woman cannot fill this role for you unless she steps down as a mediator.

She is caring, yes.

But there is no way she can non-judgementally mediate and at the same time try and be your friend, your confidant, your counselor, a listener, a sleuth, defending your husband, hoping for the best for you, etc.

Her professional duties are very limited. And she is way outside those boundaries now.

I would think you need right now:

1. A good counselor

2. A group or a couple women friends.

But your mediator should not and cannot fill these roles for you. It is not her job and her job is very important to your marriage.

ITA with Stella.

Your friends and family are your shoulders to cry on (and lift you up) and the ears to listen.

Your mediator is an UNEMOTIONAL tool - think scythe - used to cut away the waynerd's power and blood/emotion sucking appendages.

Job description fits a solicitor they are trained to remain impartial it also gives the impression that you are serious and are not playing games. That could wake him up to the realities of the situation.

GOOD LUCK and Best Wishes

Thank you all and I do agree mostly with what you are saying. I have decided to go even darker and cut all contact with anyone who might relay what I'm saying to WH. I did send an email to the mediator saying that for a while I would like to only communicate by email and that for a while i only want to hear the time and day that WH will be arriving to see the children.

I am doing to back away competely from sleuthing as I feel the job is done. The one thing I don't really agree with is that I know that I can never go into R unless I know exactly what went on with the A and the detail. So I'm not sure if knowing now is more damaging than knowing later. At least finding out what I did has helped me to break his last remaining support which was his family. He will be very lonely now. Also it means that my MIL will no longer harrass me to go back when she calls to speak to the children.

That said, I do agree that I will stop now and just focus on enjoying life, if I can. I am repainting one of the bedrooms for 2 of the girls and I am talking to a friend and neighbour about starting a small business together (even if I do go then she can continue without me)

I like the idea of a solicitor as a mediator but this is a cost we couldn't afford. The weekend trips by WH will already take a toll on our funds (especially if he insists on staying in nice hotels like this weekend with OW)

Mindshare, you are so right about my LB but I think that the thing that was taking the worst toll on it were the frustrating, illogical conversations with WH where he tried to justify and explain the unjustifiable and it was driving me crazy to be considered a fool. At least I don't have this any more. Maybe it is too late already but I don't think I can make my mind up on this until I see what kind of an attitude he comes to this M with.

Tully,

I applaud your decision to go even darker. I completely agree that is the right thing for you to do. If there is anything left in the LB it must be protected. Sleuthing is just creating my drama and pain for you right now. You must avoid this.

As for your comment on R, nobody here is saying that you shouldn't get all of the information you need about the A. You absolutely should get all of that information! But, there is a right time and a wrong time to get it. Right now is the wrong time because you are in Plan B and you are supposed to be working on yourself and preserving your LB. Getting that information now creates very risky withdrawals from you LB and you can end up in the red quickly. If and when your WH decides to re-commit to the M and enter into R with you that is the time for you to get all of the detail information that you need. If he is truly contrite and repentant about his A and is doing everything to save the M it will be much easier for you to absorb the pain of that information then it would right now. Should you decide to recover you have every right to full disclosure of all information related to the A. Now is just not the right time for it.

Stay strong!!

Mindshare

You need to get yourself mentally, emotionally and physically prepared to handle the details should WH commit himself to recovering the M and that is a requirement for you. I needed the details to but was never in a plan B. I'm too lazy to go back and look but was this requirement mentioned to your WH? It is better to get the detail now versus later but given that you are in plan B it will have to wait. Getting the details with be a test that either H will pass or fail when the time comes. Until then, rest up and enjoy the good in your life the best you can.

Darker is better. There are people in your life who are unwittingly (some of them, anyway) keeping you mired in the chaos.

Finding out details any time is hard. In recovery is better, because you're learning about something that already happened, and is over. Much improved over learning something that is actively happening, with no FWS remorse to smoothe the way.

Also, tell your mediator how much her friendship means to you, and how much you appreciate her willingness to do this for you.

She may fear that your friendship is being adversely affected if you go darker on her, but what she is doing is what true friendship is all about.

Yes, I do agree, darker is better.
WH is not coming this weekend (my MIL said that she was going to get him go to see them instead) so things should be calmer. I'm sure that MIL is going to contact me soon though so I have to work out ways of not talking to her or at least at a minimum.

Neak, I hope the mediator isn't cross with me. I did try to explain my reasoning but I just got a short email back saying, fine, I understand. I wrote again saying thanks for understanding, you're a great friend. I can see now that she is in a tricky position and it's particularly difficult if you don't 'get' the MB plan.

Hello everyone, I need some advice. WH arrived unexpectedly here at my brothers house where I was with the girls. My brother intercepted him at the gate and wouldn't allow him enter the house. He told him that I didn't want to see him. They talked for ages in the car in front of the house (the children didn't see him) My brother says that he is denying desperately seeing OW last weekend which is techincally possible but unlikely.
On the whole he is desperate to talk to me and to get back into our M. He's saying some things that make me think he's on the right track and other things that make me think he has more progress to make - like that he's accusing me of dragging the kids into the story by leaving France but denying that he did anything to them by having the A> Anyway, my brother will ring WH this evening in his htoel and ask if he wants to come and see the kids but that he won't see me. Wh is also saying that he doesn't want to deal with the mediator any more. Any suggestions? Sorry for dashing but I've been manic this evening talking to people, sending emails to the mediator and dealing with kids as well as my own panic. Now I need to talk to my SIL who is putting us up tonight so that I'm not too rude.

What should I do now? When do you think I should open the lines of communication?

PS Sugar, I will reply to your mail as soon as I have time. There's too much happening at the moment!

Sounds like a typical WS when faced with the reality of Plan B, which is DARKNESS from YOU. Not at all strange that he shows up unexpectedly. He sounds desperate. Sounds GOOD to ME.

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT open up the lines of communication until he has told you THOUGH YOUR MEDIATOR that he is ready to meet your conditions of recovery. PERIOD.

Your brother is a great guy for intercepting him but make sure he doesn't tell you more than you HAVE TO KNOW.

OF COURSE he is getting tired of the mediator. And you are getting tired of lies and the OW and never knowing what is next.

Sigh. Too bad for him.

STAY DARK. He has not met your conditions yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Get healthy and happy.

Remember, THROUGH YOUR MEDIATOR ONLY!!!! Now go have a cup of good tea and something tasty to go with it. I think I'll go do that for you. I am going to have a pretend tea party with you.

Again, you MUST read Charlotte 22's thread. Godd accompanimnet to that tea.

Blessings,
WH2LE

You need to stay dark in Plan B. Don't talk to him. Wait. When he is really ready to work on the marriage, he will prove to you that he has NC with the OW, and will be willing to do whatever it takes to recover the marriage.

Talk to your mediator, too, and let her know that if it gets to be too hard for her, you don't want to lose her as a friend, and that if she just lets you know you'll find someone else.

It may not be an issue, but the heat may turn up on her to try and make her crack, and if it does no biggie, just have a replacement step in.

Doing good, Tully!