I was amazed as I read this post from you. It was as if you were describing much of my childhood.

I have always been faced with abandonment issues in my life. As I made reference to in an earlier post, my childhood was chaotic and abusive. I suppose most people have issues with their childhood, but I believe that mine has created many issues within me.

My father divorced my mother when I was still a baby. She was a free spirit sort, a product of the 1960s. During my young childhood, she would date various men. As such I had an endless string of surrogate “daddies” that would come and go. Through much disappointment I learned not to bond closely with any new daddy de jure.

I remember my mother going out and partying. She would drink and play loud music in our tiny apartment. She was not what you would consider a typical Mom. She seemed to lack a maternal instinct.

I remember being as young as 8 or 9 and spending the night alone as she would not come home. I never knew if she would return home from a night of partying or not. As such, I had to grow up very fast and learned to fend for myself.

This lifestyle abruptly changed when I was about 12. My mother had a “born again” experience and we started to attend an Assemblies of God church. Almost over night the pendulum swung from being overly permissive to extreme fundamentalism. My mother became obsessed with “sin” and “demons”.

At first the change was nice. At least my mom was not out partying and drinking. But over time the rules became oppressive. I could not watch TV because it was “demonic”. Listening to rock music was “demonic”. And so on.

Within a year from joining the church, my Mom remarried. My step-father was a real authoritarian. From the very beginning I hated him. I remember bursting in tears when my mother told me she was marrying him. She called my spoiled and selfish for acting that way. (seems to be a common theme in my life).

He convinced my mom that I was lazy and a trouble maker. I had a huge list of chores I was expected to do before school and after school. My step-father would inspect my work, and if it didn’t measure up to his standards, I would be punished.

He was a firm believer in “spare the rod, spoil the child”. As such, his punishment of choice was spankings.

Anyway, I can’t write any more about this period of time. Most of it I have repressed.

But as with you, I married “safe”. I wanted someone who could provide me with a sense of stability and protection.

Nowis, I just read a beautiful post from LovingAnyway, that spoke to how we can fall in love again and again with our partner. Even if you hadn't had that before. I would love to know what you think about what she said there. If it gives you hope and encouragement where you are, too.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2161082#Post2161082

Ears

Read LA's post a number of times. I understand the principle she is putting out there. I think it sounds like fake it till you make it.

My H is working on himself and is rather sensitive most of the time. He is raw. I saw the Psych today and she said I would be better off just working on bringing calmness, peace and love into my own heart. Be patient, kind and give my H the space he needs to work through his issues. Stop trying until January. Stop trying to make decisions and stop trying to get answers to the marriage. I need to get to a place of peace and it means letting go for now. I shared this with my H and he said it was a very good piece of advice for me! I need to let go and he needs to tune in. I have to say as a result I feel wiped out - like I could sleep for a month.

I am exactly at that point. I have decided to let go and just make it through the holidays. Then I will re-evaluate and determine what I need to do.

I think this is a wise course of action for you. Give it time to reflect. Do you keep a journal?


I often get exhausted when I am depressed.

Hi BCB

Yes thing are hard right now and seem insurmountable. Thanks for your encouragement. Don't have time to respond more now.

How are you? Your trip must be imminent?

Hi JD

Yes, leaving things for a couple of months has brought relief already. I slept like a log last night...... mm? In the midst of everything my H and I even managed to get out to an early dinner last night and we managed to just be kind and gentle with each other. Bridging the gap between us a little.

Yes, I guess being somewhat depressed can have that effect - high tension and the next you are in a slump. I have been getting back to my yoga practice too which is helping couples with some strong physical therapy.

Yes, I do keep a journal but have days when I just don't want to write. I don't want to see the cr** on paper(!)

Had some really vivid dreams lately too which the Psych interpreted for me. Pretty telling. Does that sort of thing interest you?

Anyway, must get lunches made and go to work.

I have no doubt. Your Husband is the one I am concerned about right now. He has a lot to deal with. You both will have to go through the grief of what has happened. Forgiveness then healing. This is not going to be a quick fix. I cannot fathom how I could do it in my own strength. I am in awe of how God has given me the strength to walk through my situation.

My own situation is I was used to being the "lone ranger" I did everything in my own strength. This situation with my wife knocked me to my knees. My relationship with God has been rekindled, my whole world has changed. We often find the peace and contentment we are seeking after a period of brokenness. My experience was similar to yours where I was disappointed by church. I have since found there is a big difference between church and a relationship with Christ. Now I think if I were to go back to church this issues I had difficulty with would not be an issue, because I have changed.

When things get to be insurmountable Nowis just like my friend told me the other day "Let go and Let God"

As for me the trips are coming up soon. I leave the second week in December.

God Bless you and your family.

BCB

It will be no time at all before your trip is here. I wish you well and every success with it. I hope you expand your horizons, gain much knowledge and your heart heals.

My H has settled down and is nowhere near as emotional. He is very focused on making changes which makes him quite 'bolshy'. So we're in the stage where he's saying what he feels (fine by me) but with totally the wrong attitude/communication. So we have a spat, things are rephrased and then we move on.

It is much better when we don't talk about the marriage (as I was instructed). I think I will leave him to his work and not try to work on the marriage. Do you think this is the best plan for more than a couple of months? Should I just take my lead from him when and if he is ready to be back in the marriage?

My experience was similar to yours where I was disappointed by church. I have since found there is a big difference between church and a relationship with Christ. Now I think if I were to go back to church this issues I had difficulty with would not be an issue, because I have changed.

When things get to be insurmountable Nowis just like my friend told me the other day "Let go and Let God"

I agree with ALL of that 100%. An elder once told me that the church was full of "wolves in sheep's clothing" I didn't understand what they meant at the time, but as I grew, I began to see what they were saying.

Here is a poem that I wrote as I was struggling through finding out what things were all about, and hearing the testimonies of others on gospel radio:

Once upon a time, a tiny acorn fell
And then in time a seed sprang from within it's tiny shell
With gentle rain and fertile soil a tree began to grow
But with shadows from the larger trees, it's growth was very slow
And even though the tree did grow, it's trunk was very slim
For the shadows fell upon it and make the sunshine dim.

As days then months, and years passed by, the shadows fell away
The little tree grew stronger in the brightness of the day
And as it grew, the eye could see the tree begin to change
New branches and new blossoms - it would never be the same

But then as fall crept in on it, it's leaves began to die
They fell upon a beaten path as each new day passed by.
When winter came, it's sap fell down, but only for one reason
To live again the tree must die, but only for a season.
When spring appeared, upon the tree new buds began to grow
And from those buds new acorns came - the seed that tree did sow

And so the story ended - or did it just begin
As 'brothers' grow together, to bring God's Word to men
And just as tiny acorns fall and trees come forth instead
God's seed that's spread among mankind brings living from the dead.

Don't know if it helps any, but it helped me through a lot of hard times, and the more I grew, the more of it actually made sense to me. It was a fight for me to get it out on paper, because even I didn't understand what it was saying at the time. But I did finally learn to refer to the true church the same way Jesus referred to his "mother and his brothers". I didn't find them in a church building. I actually found the first one in a bar when I was at one of my lowest points. But life in general looks so much better now, in spite of all the turmoil that's going on.

Hope you get to feeling better and things are going better for you soon!

God Bless -
RMW

What's bolshy mean?

What does this mean? Is he judging you? Yelling? Pushing?

Again, unclear here, what does a spat look like in your house? HAve you explained this dynamic to the IC so you two could have a session where you learn about thoughtful requests, respectful persualtion, negotiation, Friends of Good COnversation, Enemies of Good COnversation?

Nowis, it's painful to read your posts. There is so much good information on this site. I don't read where you implement it. Just the SF and the ADs. The bits and pieces you are doing are so small compared to really implementing the concepts. But then you keep talking about withdrawing. And your H is talking about leaving. Who is the lighthouse in your home?

What I see is you need to work on you right now. What is it you are bringing to the marriage. From what I see you need to heal your wounds. I don't really know how people can heal themselves. I have come to realize that healing is a spiritual process. Nowis what I see in you is a wounded spirit. You were wounded very young in your life and you built up defenses to protect yourself. Now those defenses have grown up and are now choking your spirit.

This is the moment where many people are broken. The realization that they can no longer go on in their own strength. Sometimes it is illness, sometimes it is relationship breakdown, what ever it is we at some point have our Cross to bear. We in ourselves do not have the power. We can go on only for so long, and then we realize that change has not taken place, we have only continued on in our own strength, eventually we end up exhausted.

This is the crisis, the turning point, where we are desperate, read the book of Job and Ecclesiastes where Solomon has come to the end of the rope. It seems as humanity we share this frustration and futility, where we have exhausted all of our options. I have been questioning "why me Lord?" I have discovered this, there is only one way I can see to follow.

I never understood what the preacher meant when they said we must be crucified with Christ. I am beginning to find out. The place where I surrender my will, my way, to His. I have to die to myself and my selfish nature (the old unproductive ways have got to go). Then the process of healing can take place, forgiveness (forgiving and being forgiven), repentance (turn away from destructive ways), restitution (making amends and paying for my mistakes) follow. To start fresh and a clean start. I don't see any other way, and I have been looking. I don't want to go through this process, it is hard, but necessary. God is patient. He loves us. To really heal we need to fully accept the Love, Forgiveness, and Healing.

I understand you have been disappointed in organizations Nowis. But when you are ready, God is there for you. I hesitate to sound so preachy, but my heart aches for you right now. You need hope. And there is only one TRUE HOPE. I see how you are deflated in your posts. It is a hard time right now, but that is when we learn. Reach out when you are ready. God can heal the brokenhearted.

God Bless you and your family

Ears

Sorry - bolshy is a slang term used in the UK which kind of means obstreperous - or close to it.

He is attacking and aggressive which is unusual for him. He is trying to assert himself/his opinions and thoughts. I just think in all the emotion and nervous energy it comes out as aggressive. I tend to snap back. We take a couple of minutes and then we apologize and explain what we really meant. I understand the need for my H to be assertive and he wants to change his behavior from placating to sharing how he truly feels.

My H is not interested in reading or implementing MB principles word for word. He has glanced here once or twice before a couple of years ago. We are, for the most part, supremely polite, have thoughtful requests, negotiate well, have good conversation etc with each other. We may not have told the truth of our hearts but we are not fighters. We never have been. It was as a result of the above friction that the IC suggested that my H is probably passive-aggressive right now working through his stuff and it would be a good time to leave him to do that and work on healing myself. Do not discuss the marriage and give each other the space needed. I do not want to interfere in my H's process and will only say if asked or, as above, am offended in his tones or attitudes towards me.

There is no lighthouse in our home. Neither of us is in a stronger position than the other right now, it would seem. We have talked back and forth a few times over the last year or so about ending the marriage. We both have a slither of hope but we've been hoping for a long time. I think my H is tired of me and disappointed with the whole marriage. I too likewise. For now, we are still together but not working on anything together. We hug and show affection when we can.

Not sure if this gives you a good picture or not.

RMW

I am very touched by what you shared. Thank you so much. I read the poem a few times.

This is uncannily accurate right now. I have had a couple of dreams to this effect too. That's some of the reason the Psych says to work on me and my H work on himself and stop struggling with looking for answers to the marriage.

Everything is in pieces on the floor BCB. I can't do anything anymore. I look at my H - his heart is broken too. I broke it and I can't mend it. We are crippling each other. I am increasingly lonely and wonder why I let myself get to this point. I would love for God to show up but don't have much hope for that either..... what's so different about now than 20, 30 years ago.

Please don't be offended. You've pretty much got the dregs of me. I wish I had your hope and certainty of faith in God.

My Dear Nowis. That is exactly the point isn't it. You are getting closer to letting go. When you find yourself to the point of crying out and pleading with God you will find Him. I can only reflect to you what I know of Gods character. He came to a broken world to save the the poor in Spirit. Blessed are the poor in Spirit as it says in Matthew. You are getting closer.


Nowis please understand that I am no pillar of strength. I am broken and desperate. I have lost everything I worked for in my life. My world came crashing down. I was in such grief and despair that I cried out to God to help me. And the strangest thing happened to me. I got this incredible sense of well being. Somehow I began to know inside me that the storm may not go away but God would walk with me through the storm. So what am I to do? Am I to remain silent when I see a fellow traveler stumble and fall? Am I to watch someone die of thirst when I know there is a well around the corner, and all you have to do is ask? The God I serve is not found in smugness, or ego, or pride, or self sufficiency. I can only offer you the same cup of water I was offered. Was I certain one year ago about my faith? I am ashamed to tell you I was not. I knew in my head about God. But now I know in my heart, that He will never leave or forsake me.

In the Bible my friend pointed out, # Matthew 7:7
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

I can only give you my experience. I was desperate enough to ask, I had no other option but to seek, and God gave me a sense of peace that I cannot explain, And I will forever be grateful. Yes I believe in Jesus Christ, because in my most desperate moment he touched my heart. Do I know how things will turn out? No I don't. My wife still wants to separate. But I do know this, God does not make mistakes. I was distant from Him, but now I am not. He is in control of my life now, not me, and I am excited about what God will do. Imagine, 53 years old and finally figuring out what really matters.

Nowisthemoment - you can have it too, all you have to do is ask, seek, knock.

Here is the definition of seek
–verb (used with object)
1. to go in search or quest of: to seek the truth.

A quest - to pursue, not giving up - yearning to know. Seek is an action Nowis. Seek Him.

I am glad the Psychologist is helping you. But what you really need is a Pastor. You need to have your spirit healed. You need prayer. Get your husband and ask him to pray for you, and pray together, and ask God for healing. Nowisthemoment go find God. God does love you, and He will never give up on you.

That's all I know.

Nowis,

Please listen to BCB. He is offering you some astounding advice.

The answers lie within your own contemplations and ultimately peace. You have fought yourself for a long time. Your H has fought for your love for a long time and in the process betrayed himself. He deserved what he fought for but did not receive it. Now, he struggles with himself and how he betrayed himself for something he needed so badly.

Please seek some spiritual advice. Nothing wrong with your counseling or your H's. But, ultimately the answers come from within and BCB has just given you an excellent description of ow they get there.

Please note that most counselors will NOT tell you what you must do, or even think. THey may encourage you to see things from a different perspective, to consider things you have missed or ignored, but ultimately even the counselors know the answer must come from within.

What is within you? Your beliefs, your morals, your connections with things you don't understand now.

Your story makes my heart ache for you, your H, and your family. I wish I could just reach out and solve your problems, but I cannot nor can anyone else. Ultimately, it must come from within you just as BCB has described.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Saw the Psych today and she said something very similar and along the same lines as you and BCB.

I was to listen to my inner voice. To tune into the subconscious and let my spirit guide me. I was to stop struggling. I had struggled with things for too long. I had struggled unnecessarily too.

There it is! She said I should begin to trust my inner voice and put down the struggle. I have a way to go but that I needed tune in with who I really am. You said it.

I had another very vivid dream a few nights ago in which I was in despair, panic and overwhelmed. I had come crashing down (in a car) from a bleak, volcanic, barren mountain. I won't go into detail of the dream, suffice to say, at the end, I could see a tiny light far, far away in the distance which offered me a way out. It would be no easy task to get there but for the first time I began to feel at peace.

I asked my H what would he think about going back to Church. He said he had thought about that a lot lately. That perhaps we could find a small one around here instead of the 'monster' ones that are close to us.
Gulp...! Out of the frying pan and into the fire.......?!?!

Nowis,

You said
My first response to your statement is !

My second is to recommend that you seek a church where the minister challenges you to think, to go deeper into what is being preached in the sermon. THis is YOUR journey to take Nowis it is also your H's to take.

I say these things because I really like ministers that offer me ways of looking at things that I had not considered. It forces me to examine my thinking, my perspective, and what is really going on around me. I love that. Some of those insights have profoundly affected my life. One minister showed me a gift, I never realized was a gift. It has affected my life and continues to do so 30+ years later.

You know what strikes me is that many of things you want your H wants as well. Most of all he like you wants peace, he wants to be loved, he wants to be able to love. And very clearly he likes you. I see potential and opportunity rearing it's head Nowis ;), I really do.

Finally you said And where do you think God is connected to you? Via your spirit of course. Please do listen to it.

God Bless,

JL

My pastor is like that. She's amazing. She makes us laugh all the time, and brings up things you think you wouldn't hear about in a Lutheran church.

My mom always told me to try out the Universalist Unitarian church, because they (she says) question everything and really make you think. And their churches are ALWAYS small, lol. Some day I'm going to try them out.

Yes Nowis you are on to something here. This is a portion of how we are Spirit Lead. The other portion is reading the Owners Manual - The Bible. In the Bible we get a sense of Gods character, and how we can line up with how God wants us to think and act so we may have an abundant life. A life that is tuned, to how God shows us in His word(the Bible), how to live an abundant life.

There is a Sunday School song we taught the kids one year and I think it was more for us adults:

Read your Bible, Pray every day, Pray every day
Read your Bible, Pray every day and you'll grow grow grow.

God loves you more than you can fathom Nowis. If you will seek Him you will find Him. So if you are wondering where to go for a church and fellowship? Ask Him where to go, keep asking God until he guides you. God is faithful.

I have a word to encourage you Nowis
"When Jesus sets you free you will be free indeed"


Sorry you've got the wrong guy. Our God promises us something far greater. You get the fire if you don't pay attention to the owners manual

God Bless you and your family