Tully has no control over what her WH does. Sticking to PB or not sticking to PB will not keep him from having an OC.

The last thing she needs to be doing right now is thinking of how her life could be even worse - ways that her WH could hurt her even more.

I'm afraid I don't understand this. How can Tully's adherence to Plan B affect whether OW contrives to get herself impregnated?

Tully is an intelligent person, who seems to be fully aware of the determined nature of this OW, and I'm sure this is right up there in her list of fears. Unless the intention of the statement was 'If WH suddenly caves in, find out if the OW is pregnant', I can't see what was meant.

TA

Bingo Neak!

Tully - stay the course!

I meant that as well--about if WH suddenly caves. As before, I word things improperly and think that what I am seeing is obvious to others too.

tully's doesn't need anymore anxiety. She has previously expressed a fear of OW getting pregnant and I'm sure it's still in her thoughts....anyway...back to plan B everyone...can others be encouraged to 2x4 WH with DJs or does that violate plan B since she's supposed to be shielding herself from everything WH?

Certainly if they want to, they can. If they don't want to, it doesn't matter too much.

Sometimes a 2x4 MIGHT help speed things up a little, but ultimately God, PB, and time are the active ingredients.

Also, whether anyone delivers 2x4's or not, Tully needs to be shielded entirely from it. No knowledge of whether or what was said.

Personally, I think that 2x4's will be useless. I think that Tully's WH has such a sense of entitlement and is doing so much rationalizing and blaming others that he is not likely to admit fault at this point. He has a long ways to go unforatunatley.

Tully - I'm so sorry about that email he sent you. That was the absolute biggest pile of rubbish I have read in a long time. Not a single ounce of remorse or empathy for what he has put you through. Instead, he chose to blame you for why he had the A. This is classic fog babble. I sure hope that this is not what your H was like before becoming a WH?!?! You must completely ignore this email and do not justify it with a response. You must go darker and protect that LB...whatever is left of it.

Still hoping and praying for you. But, you'll be alright regardless of the outcome.


Mindshare

What's a 2 X 4?
BF439

It's a two-by-four, a piece of wood commonly used in construction or to slap someone over the head when when you want to get their attention.

The 2x4s might be useless...I dunno. They did wonders for my H...or at least made me feel better. I think surgical strikes hurt more anyway. I guess I operate with the theory that waywards are so dense that the obvious needs to be pointed out to them or they at least have to have the mirror held in front of their face while they are spewing their crap until they make themselves sick. I see the merits of plan B but don't think it's the only way. tully has different variables at work than what I had to deal with so what worked for me may not work for her. I do agree that she should not read any emails from WH...they are only hurtful and add to the resentment. I'm just not sure WH will ever get out of the fog if he's surrounded foggy parents, foggy friends, and foggy co-workers.

Cinderella, a while back you asked me about exposure at work and I have exposed as much as I can to OW's new boss and to several of WH's work colleagues as well as some colleagues from other workplaces that work with both of them.

As for 2x4s, I think they could be good because WH is not a very emotionally astute man - he has always repressed his feelings (particularly negative ones and IMO there's no emotion as negative a guilt). I think his family might be coming around to my way of thinking but I'm not sure what they are saying because of their tendancy not to discuss unpleasant things. It seems as if family and friends are nervous of talking to him as he is so closed to what they have to say. Hopefully some people will find the courage and he will find the courage to listen to them.

Anyway I got an email from the mediator this evening asking if I had read the email from WH and also asking if I am planning to stay in Ireland for Christmas. I replied 'yes' and 'probably, since WH doesn't seem to want to give me what I need in this M: NC and a desire to reconstruct.' He is so lost and frustrated. Hopefully Neak is right about the active ingredients - I'm just hoping that it won't happen too late.

Tully, you're doing a very good job, and working HARD at it, I can see that you are. You need to be DARK though. Your Plan B is having an effect, that's obvious. You have to be DARK for it to have the effect you want, however.

If your WH can continue to get snippets of feedback, then he thinks he can string you along and continue cake-eating. He will never wake up and take action if he thinks you're always going to be waiting in the wings.

When the mediator asked if you'd read the email, you should have just ignored that question. It's not relevant to the end of the affair, NC, or any of your conditions being met.

Well, your mediator should never have asked the question, but since it was asked, you should have ignored it. Does your mediator really understand their role yet?

When the mediator asked if you were planning on staying in Ireland for Christmas, you answered that pretty darn well.

Sugarcane,

No worries at all.

It is ALWAYS frustrating to me how difficult the written word can be. Thank YOU so much for your kind reply.

It is wonderful to be in the presence of great MBer's like you. If only NONE of us felt the need to be here!!!!!

Yes, recovery IS hard. The hardest thing I have ever done.

God bless you.

Wow, just wow...one day you'll be able to post on one of those "Foggy things my WS said during the A" threads...but right now it's hard to cut through...

What I read from that is...I am spending all my time justifying the A, trying to blame shift, and trying to figure out a way I can get my W and children back with me with the least amount of work possible...oh yeah, and keep the OW.

What killed me is when he wrote he doesn't like the lengthy heartfelt conversations and can't be expected to do that.

What he is really saying is, he feels so guilty and doesn't want to live up to the consequences of his actions, and is trying to negotiate a return where he doesn't have to work hard at repairing the marriage...no concessions.

It sure does seem like a struggle, a fight, a game, a contest. And it truly isn't, you are both on the same side, you both want the marriage, just on different terms.

Be humble in response. Perhaps respond through the intermediary something like..."Thank you for the email, I love you, but your email didn't sound very loving or like you are willing to reconcile. Please send all correspondence through the intermediary and only if it is helpful and not hurtful."

Hi tully,

How are you feeling now about the marriage? Is your desire to reconcile diminishing?

I hope you won't take what I'm about to say badly. I do not mean to suggest that your marriage has reached the point where it cannot be recovered. However, I do think that perhaps you should look into your legal rights.

Have you looked into divorce law in both Ireland and France? I'm suggesting that you do this only to find out what your rights are under each jurisdiction.

When I looked into English law, I found that citing adultery might bring a quicker settlement than otherwise. Citing adultery in England makes no difference to the financial arrangements or those for children, but it might bring a quicker settlement than without it.

In England, the BS can only cite adultery if she petitions for divorce within six months of discovering the betrayal. After that time she has to take the long route.

I'm only suggesting that you do some online research. Find out how divorce is granted in each state and think about your best interests. It might be a good idea to secure some legal rights soon. Your H sounds angry and confused.

What happens if he stops putting his salary in the joint account?

I suppose the thing that prompts me to write this is your H's talking about looking after the children himself. Soon, during one of the holidays, he is going to ask to have the girls stay with him in France. Once he has them, he could refuse to give them back. However, can you refuse to let them go? What if he goes to court? He seems to think that YOU are using them as tug-of-love pawns. Suppose he tries to put an end to that?

I know that several weeks ago you didn't think he would embark on a tug-of-love strategy, but he seems now to be a different man from the one you thought you knew.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to do some research.

I'm sorry to talk about such a horrible thing. I hope you're okay today nonetheless.

Did he visit last weekend? What happened?

hi sugar, this is not a good time to reply as I have had quite a lot to drink after a great girls night out with sisters, sisters in law and friends. Right now, life is looking good (punctuation and grammar pernickityness are the last bastions for me in drunkeness!). Optimism is at a high but I have to be up early tomorow for school. I'm reply with all due seriousness to your questions about divorce and such matters tomorrow but all is well right now.

Thank you all good people and sleep well my MB friends..
Tully

Tully,

In my experience, 2 X 4's make you feel good temporarily while you are writing them but have little effect on the active wayward. I wrote quite a few of them to "vent" and actually believed that the "power" of my eloquence would eventually sink in...all for naught. [I wanted to "tear WS a new one" as you probably do too, but it seems to do little good.]

I asked for the vets' input and you have it--stay DARK. I defer to their wisdom and know from my own experience that you cannnot "convince" ot "guilt" a wayward--only their OWN guilt and/or the A ending seems to lift the fog. Yes, it does totally suck when they have friends/family who enable them.

The consensus is STAY DARK...and out of the country too)

Sorry, this hurts so bad but I think you have him a "little scared" and that is a good thing.

Drunk sounds good! The night out sounded great! How did the high school reunion go?

I do hope there's no hangover today!

Just a simple warning, not that I think anything would happen, but be careful out there, you are vulnerable, and wouldn't be the first BS to begin an A themselves....

Glad you had a good time.

Hope you are holding on well to the love still remaining.

You seem to be doing everything right for you!