2M2L, I meant to wish you a happy birthday for tomorrow despite the circumstances. Do something nice or even better, let others do nice things for you.

If face to face is the issue then I think you need to work out how to do a Plan B without seeing him at all.

2M2L.

You are just like my grandmother. Two of her sons lie, cheat, steal, drink, and abandon the family.

They waaah waaah and do nice things for a while and she lets them right back in because she wants to keep the peace and hopes for the peaceful silence that occurs during that "while."

WAKE UP! Plan B is Plan B which means TOTAL DARKNESS!

He saw you were serious so he knew he had to do something, and fast.

Please. Please.

Don't do this to yourself! Are you a masochist? Do you LIKE being hurt time after time? Do you LIKE being abused???

:twobyfour:

Thanks Tully. We just had cake and singing at work and the girls bought me some lovely flowers and we're going out to lunch soon and then my family are taking me out for tea. It's going to be a lovely birthday!

Face to face is huge problem. The other issue is the kids are 1 and 3 and seeing them outside the house is difficult logistically with small kids. They are sleepy when he visits at night and he says he can't have them for sleep overs where he's staying, wherever that is.

And this is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. You say that you "hope he can return to the good person he used to be". But the fact is - the person you see in him right now, this is the real him. Your WH is being his true self right now, and frankly he is very open about it. He has a problem - he likes to chase women. He likes the thrill of the chase. And when he has "won" the woman, he becomes bored with her. If she starts to get tired of his crap,and asks him to leave her alone, then he wants to chase her some more. This is not a M. This is a game the two of you are playing. And your darling children are suffering because of it.

You see the ring as a loving gesture. It isn't. A loveing gesture is when a man cares for his family, and protects them from harm. When he doesn't call them names, and doesn't let anyone else do it either.

He is trying to buy you off with that ring, and you are wearing it!!! I thought you were more mature than that. You are a Mom! You have babies to protect!! That line about "putting the ring away until he is ready to committ to the M" is bull crap. He is never going to "committ" to the M. Why the he!! should he? You are making a complete joke out of what M is all about, and you are teaching this to your DD. Your DD will grow up to M a man just like this, because she does not know any better.

This is not Plan A or Plan B. why would you even ask such a ridiculous question? You ignore him, and act like you are going to stand up to him, until he gives you a diamond ring. That is all he has done. he did not write a letter, he did not committ. He still wants to be free to do whatever he wants to. But you got a ring. that was all it took, and he gets to be have you when he wants to, he gets to have a 19 year old girl "adore" him, and heck he can even go to the bars at night looking for a new woman.

Didn't he tell you that OW "has fallen in love with him now".
Is that really ok with you? A 19 year old girl has fallen in love with him. She thinks that this man is going to marry her, have children with her. She is no longer looking for a H, becuase she has "fallen in love" with a man in his forties, who has cheated on his W at least 3 times.

this is disgusting. he does not want to come back and be a man, and take care of his W and children until he has had plenty of time to talk to other women and hang out with other women without you watching him. This is not M. So, if he decides in a week that it is finally "the right time" then what? You let him just wander back in? And in 6 months, when he wants some time alone again to "become the man you deserve" are you going to smile and hold the door open for him? What if your little girl were married to a man like this? What would you tell her? "Its ok for your H to move out when ever he pleases. All you need to do is a Plan A!"

You have grossly abused Plan A.
And you really only get one chance to do a good plan B. Your chance is over, done. he will never take you seriously again.

and how do you explain this to your children???
"its ok babies. Daddy sleeps here sometimes, and sometimes he sleeps somewhere else. But thats Ok. this is plan A. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A!!"

Is it possible that THIS is really all you want in a M? You don't really want a man that is with you full time? As long as he comes back once a week for SF, and gives you an occasional gift, that is really all you requre? I dont say that to be mean - I seriously wonder if that is really what you want.

Just out of curiousity, how did all of this jsut go away so fast?
It is no longer over for good?
It is no longer impossible to reconcile?
Is his family still fully against it?
Has he filed for D?


This is not normal!! This is not just the fog talk of an A. This man says things like this, and the next day just acts like it never happend.

I wonder - are you making this stuff up???
Have I been duped here?

2M2L, I know this is hard, but please don't let his limitations with the kids influence the choices you need to make to care for yourself. The better care you take of yourself, the better able you are to take care of your kids. Having your WH around unhealthy, is not helpful to your kids, especially if it depletes your spirit.
Spell out in your updated Plan B letter, what you expect, what you need and what you will allow for visitation. They cannot visit with him in your house IF THAT IS UNHEALTHY FOR YOU! He must come up with a solution that you are ok with -- not you!
We spend so much of our married life considering our partner's wants and needs -- this is not the time to do that. What do you need and want that you control? Figure that out and stick with it!
And, if you can, I highly reccommend a Pug -- much better than any ring!!!

BF439

I have never made anything up. He has always cried loudest to get the attention and he persists to this day. I didn't contact him after his messages so he dropped it. I remember putting a post in before about the Queen Of Hearts personality type - Off With Their Heads whenever someone disagrees with them.

He has major personality swings and I am ashamedly used to jumping over them instead of refusing to put up with them.

I need to do a serious dark plan B, for my own sanity. I struggle with thinking about the kind of life expectations I am setting up for my children and when they came into the bedroom looking for WH today, it broke my heart.

I want a committed loving H who wants to wake up beside me every day and be the one to come to bed with me at night. I want love and respect and to be adored.

I feel ashamed that I have fallen for his "good side" again and had almost nearly convinced myself that this was ok and he just needed more time.



I've been waiting for nearly 6 months!

Please help me with a letter for him. I need him to know this is not okay.

If you know it's not okay why do you keep doing it?

I saw the ring as the start of my dreams coming true, that WH was starting to see the light.

What should I do with it?

Should I spell out that I need the letter, committment and resurrect my boundaries and put them in too?

Apparently this is not true, she just misses their friendship.

I have become resigned and cynical that this is all I will get, you're right.

Can I fix this?

This is exactly what I said. I feel awful about it.

NO. I want so much more! I hate this!!!

I've become so good at being a doormat that it excuses everything! I hate being this way and I really want to change. Everytime I stand up for myself WH tells me that I am not the woman he loves, where is she?

You mean the woman he LIKES TO CONTROL.

He doesn't "love you" unless he can control, dominate, and make your life completely devoted to him no matter what OW he's ****edit****

You know, he may have a point. He may have fallen in love with someone who has been a doormat and now you are changing the rules. That is not necessarily a bad thing for you, but you may need to really start thinking about your life without him, because if he married a doormat and you are working on not being one, it may not be the match you both wanted! Maybe he is being more of what you married and you are growing a different way and now you (you, 2M2L) need to decide, do you keep growing and let him know its unacceptable for him to bulldoze you or do you agree that you have not been the woman he married and go back to that behavior?
Even if an affair was not part of the issue, I think the above dynamic is a big question you need to decide on.
I wish you all the best in this process!!!
BF439

He fell in love with me as a giving, loving, independent and tolerant woman. And he, as a dominant and controlling man gently encouraged and rewarded me to be the best doormat ever.

Sigh. BF, you could be right.

I do need to make a stand to see if there is a chance for me to get the love I deserve, be that with my H or someone else. WH is not giving me what I need.

HOW IS THIS FOR A DIGNIFIED WAY BACK INTO PLAN B???

Dear WH,

This is not working for me.

I cannot be your beloved wife and wait patiently for you to come and go when it pleases you. I can no longer tolerate being used by you in this way. It hurts me every day that you spend away from our family and hurts me that you cannot be around me. All I want to do is be the best wife for you and create a beautiful marriage together.

Until you are able to separate completely from OW and commit to our marriage and write me a letter which tells me the path you will take to make our marriage amazing, I will have no further contact with you. I am sorry that this hurts you, but I cannot take this chance with my heart and my love for you any longer.

I have included a copy of my original letter to you and I ask you to please respect my wishes and not contact me by any means. If it is about visitation with the kids or finances, please contact IM and she will pass the information on to me. I can drop the kids at mum and dad’s house on a Wednesday night and you can see them there. Mum and dad are not trying to make this hard on you, they are trying to help.

As for the swimming lessons, they continue until Saturday 20th December. I would prefer that we do not see each other at the pool. Please let IM know if you want to take the kids swimming or if you would like to see the kids at the playground after swimming and have lunch/snacks with them (2pm).

If you are able to have a sleepover with the children on a Friday or Saturday night, please let IM know the day before and I can have the bags and beds ready for you and have a meeting place in the city to make it easier for you. Alternatively you can pick up the kids from mum and dad’s house or ask your brother to pick them up them or from xx.

I love you, I’ve never stopped. I just want a healthy marriage with you and this is not it.

Your loving wife,
2M2L

I made some changes... Let me know what you think...
BF439

Hey fellow Plan B'er! I just popped in on this page so I'm not sure of everything that's going on with ya, but I just wanted to show support you. I know the pain you feel and I know the fear you face in Plan B. I face it daily. I face that lying fear that if I just break the plan B then maybe he'll come home or maybe he's right maybe maybe maybe-NOPE.

That is the lie that is trying to appear real to you. FEAR is to me false evidence appearing real or defined as: a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined; the feeling or condition of being afraid.

Our H's know by our previous history exactly how we will react and exactly how to get us to cave. Its hard to get out of acting and responding in that previous way but we MUST at all cost do that very thing even if only for ourselves and not motivated by whether or not our spouses come back. He knows where to get you and what to say to you so its time to throw him off girl friend. He is counting on you responding the way you always do, time for a curve ball baby!

GO DARK DARK DARK. Don't be motivated by fear in your choices. Its hard I know, I have to do the same thing. But I make baby steps in that direction and then I know at some point that is the way I will be living and if you rise up and go for it so will you. Live not by fear but by faith. And faith not just in the outcome of the marriage but in ourselves and in God.

Its growing time for all of us. To be stronger and more confident individuals. I say risk everything to gain your self respect and confidence. Stretch yourself and see just what you can do. Take a risk, GO DARK, its a good risk and a calculated risk, its a great plan to go for risking and much to gain in you.

Hi BF - this was especially hard to read for me and know it is going to hurt him too.

But, I know it is necessary to show I am serious!

Thank you for your edit - it sounds good to me.

You're so right, it's a horrible place to be, except you've kept yours us and I've failed.

You are so right. He knows exactly how to win me over and is surprised when I say no and applies pressure for me to confrm. I need to stop acting in the fashion that is bad for me!

Yes. Fear is horrible and I've also faced pressure from well meaning friends and family who think that Plan B = not working on marriage and therefore compliance and keeping him happy is good. I need to find my faith again.

I want to hand him my plan B letter and stand up to him. He didn't believe the email but I must do it in person so that he knows that seeing me in person will not make a difference this time.

BK - what do you think?

Thanks for the support T2L!

Then don't let him anywhere near the house! If he is seeing kids, let him pick them up and drop them off at someone else's house!

Hon, every person here sees that he is abusive and manipulative - just like in that book. You have been living with it so long that you can't see it any more. That's what happens to abuse victims - the abuser takes away one little snippet at a time - he criticizes your short hair cut, so you grow your hair out; you're mildly upset at this, but can't figure out why. Every time you discuss your mother, he criticizes her; so you end up distancing yourself from your mother so you don't have to hear him cut her down. Little things like this, and you give up a piece of your life, one at a time, until you are only a shell of your former self. That is also why you are so weak around him - he has conditioned you to NOT piss him off; therefore, when you do something you know will piss him off like standing up to him, your gut wrenches, you have a panic attack.

You know why you had a panic attack? Because you were finally protecting yourself, and doing the right thing, and then here he comes and you cave totally (SF?!). So now your subconscious is screaming at you, because you know when you let him come home, you'll have even less power than you had before, and you won't even be a shell of yourself, you'll be whatever he wants you to be.