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I am once-divorced. I routinely refer to myself as the single-guy and occasionally as a bachelor. Most definitions of bachelor state that the term refers to an unmarried man. I am an unmarried man. Most definitions of single state unmarried, lacking a partner, relating to the unmarried state, and egads, relating to celibacy. You can research these definitions in the standard places.

I might posit that it's an arbitrary judgment to restrict the meaning or bachelor/single to someone who has never been married.

I am a bachelor, I am single, and I am happily divorced, once.


Me: 48 XW: 44 DD: 15
Lived Together: 7 Married: 18 Total: 25 years
W announced divorce 11-3-2006, I moved out 11-7-2006, served papers 11-8-2006. Divorce final 12-19-2006. Life gets better every day.
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Just thought I would put in a plug for the MNMKs. You may be missing out by not considering them as dating material. If they are over 40, they probably have baggage but it is light compared to ours. Since they don't have kids, they have time and energy to play with yours (if you let it get that far). Also ,there is no ex to deal with and the only schedule you have to worry about his yours. On the weekends when you don't have your kids, you can travel or just hang out. I go to BFs house when kids are gone and feel like I am on vacation!

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Seabird,

I find the way you described your co-parenting "relationship" with your ex-wife (xWW, I presume) to be spot on.

My guess is that your current serious GF sees and completely appreciates that you:

1. Are an excellent dad and co-parent to your kids and
2. Have appropriately relegated your xW to the dustbin of your life (outside of her being your kids biological mom).

I congratulate you because I am sure that must have been very difficult for you and it should make your GF value you even more. I particularly loved your paraphrased description of "(other than her role as my kids' mom) I couldn't care less if she dropped dead".

It is sad that it must be this way, but if your xW cheated and left, she has received exactly what she asked for.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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I just want to add my side of the NMNK scenerio...in my experience the NMNK men can't quite understand the time and commitment required for my children nor do they really know how to communicate with them.

I will agree that it's nice to be able to pick up and go when the kids are with the ex...it does feel like a mini vacation.


Me, 43
DS18, DD12
Divorce final May 10, 2007
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I can certainly see how difficult it is for now-D BSs who have kids. I feel really bad for those in this situation, one they did not ask for or choose, as outside people who have no clue make negative assumptions about things they do not understand.

As a man, I can say it must be hard for a NMNK guy to forsee himself in a serious R with an xBW with kids (heck, it is even hard for me as a divorced xBH w/o kids). The questions abound:

Do I want to deal (in any way) with an ex?
What is her relationship like with the ex?
Is she going to have time to date with kids?
Would the kids ever accept me as anything more than an interloper?

Tough for all involved...


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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 Quote:
Do I want to deal (in any way) with an ex?
What is her relationship like with the ex?
Is she going to have time to date with kids?
Would the kids ever accept me as anything more than an interloper?


These are all reasonable questions to ask yourself.

I personally have good-great relationships with my ex's. We can talk without yelling and sometimes we even laugh. I wouldn't call either on a daily basis just to talk but when needed we are cordial to one another.

My kids are older and can be left alone should I decide to go on a date. So time isn't usually a problem unless my kids have something going on the same night, which rarely happens.

My kids are well rounded and I've never had trouble with them accepting someone into our lives. I have had incident of a NMNK man not really knowing how to communicate with my kids but my kids were never rude or disrespecting to him.


Me, 43
DS18, DD12
Divorce final May 10, 2007
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Do I want to deal (in any way) with an ex?
What is her relationship like with the ex?
Is she going to have time to date with kids?
Would the kids ever accept me as anything more than an interloper?

SDC: All great questions. But, these are questions anyone would have regarding dating someone who is D w/kids whether you have kids yourself or not. You may for good reasons not want to date a woman w/kids. Lots of NMNKs or DNKs wouldn't want to.

But, to those people who are D w/kids who only want to date people who are divorced w/kids, you may be missing out....that is, if they want us! If you date a NMNK, you don't have to worry about the questions raised above. Just my .02. But, you are right Alluring...there could be other issues involved w/NMNKs. I just don't think you want to rule someone out solely because they haven't been married.

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 Originally Posted By: starving
Do I want to deal (in any way) with an ex?
What is her relationship like with the ex?
Is she going to have time to date with kids?
Would the kids ever accept me as anything more than an interloper?

SDC: All great questions. But, these are questions anyone would have regarding dating someone who is D w/kids whether you have kids yourself or not. You may for good reasons not want to date a woman w/kids. Lots of NMNKs or DNKs wouldn't want to.



I agree--they are questions anyone would ask themselves about potentially dating someone w/ kids.

I do try to be open-minded about it (as I alluded to earlier) but, you are right, there are more mental hurdles to overcome. She really has to be a pretty amazing & extraordinary prospect, in fact, for me to seriously consider it. With rare exception, I am not very open to dating someone with kids and usually politely turn down such offers, introductions, and "setups".

I will date someone divorced (like my current gf) without much reservation as long as:

She does not have kids
She has been D at least a year
She has no ongoing "relationship" or "friendship" (nor seeks any) with her xH
I am confident that she was the BW and NOT the WW (yes, as soon as appropriate I tell my story and tactfully ask hers)


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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I think you have to do what feels right for you. The two year rule makes a lot of sense in that it keeps one from rushing into another distasterous marriage. But, dating isn't marriage, so go with what you think is best.

I know that I was in a tough relationship - a nice woman who had a rather needy and unforgiving side. I left the relationship. It was hard, but needed to be done. Now I just pal around with male and female friends and it feels good at this time.

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SDCWman - Thank you for the affirmation and compliments. My XW actually wasn't a cheater. I suspected it and did a lot of snooping. I was a PI (Insurance Investigator actually, but I held a PI's license) and I know all the tricks. I never found a thing. It's a very long story, but I'm pretty convinced she ended up being what Harley calls a Walk Away Wife. Others here described her as having an affair mentality, but without the affair. The lying, the sense of entitlement, the constant need for affirmation, etc... Like any wayward, it was all about her.

I keep my distance now, not out of spite so much, but as an effort to self-protect. After we separated, she still expected me to do what she wanted and to help whenever she needed it without giving anything back. Couple that with the continued lying to save face time and time again, and I realized that I just needed to keep my distance. I think she's getting the picture and understands that I'm not going to help without some kind of compensation. She wants something from me, she has to be ready with something on the table herself.

For the record, and here's where I typically get 2x4'd around here, I specifically chose to date women who are NK. The NM part isn't as important, but like you, there have to be certain boundaries between her and her XH, and she couldn't have been a WW. Also, if she was the one who filed, she'd need a damned site better reason than, "It just wasn't working out.", or "I just wasn't happy.". That's a big, fat crock IMO.

I have a theory that women in general are more accepting of children not their own. Men have a harder time with it, and I think it's a biological thing. While I admire the many exceptions out there (my uncle raised his first step son, my cousin, as his own and showed him just as much love and affection as his biological son), I think they are just that; exceptions.

I suspect my lion analogy has worn out its welcome in these parts, so I won't torture everyone here with it.

Again. ;\)

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Seabird, swing right back at those who offer a 2x4 at you for only wanting to date women with NK. You can date whoever you want and use whatever criteria works for you.

I don't have a strong feeling about kids like I do about previously married. On the one hand, I can relate to someone with kids as I've had my own. On the other hand, my DS is grown and I'm not currently under any time restraints due to kids. A good friend of mine is married to a guy who has other kids, and they have a kid together. His second youngest is only a few years (4 or 5) older than the one they have together and they get along fabulously. My friend thoroughly enjoys when he is with them. But the exW gives them nothing but grief. She advises that kids are no problem at all, but ex's are.

But everyone has their own preferences.

Another thing you could put on your check list is shift work. There's another thread going about somebody dating a shiftworker and having problems because they hardly ever see or speak to each other. I can relate to this. I might use it as part of my screen.

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Thank you for understanding Tabby. You are exactly right - I'm only expressing a preference for what works for me. I suspect that some people view my preferences as a judgment on them, which just isn't the case. One of my reasons for choosing NKs stems from how standardized my state's visitation schedules are. Unless she's on some kind of highly modified and extremely flexible schedule, the odds are that when her kids are gone and she's available, mine would be with me. And when mine are gone, she'd have hers at home. Couple all of that with my rule about not introducing my kids to anyone I date until we're well established within a relationship, and you can see the challenge. Logistically it's almost impossible without spending a fortune on babysitters.

I have another issue which is an admission of my own weakness... I simply don't think I can be as good to someone else's children as I am to my own. I don't feel the same instinct to nurture a child that I didn't help produce, and if it were to ever come time to blend our lives, it wouldn't be fair to the other child. In my head and in my heart, mine would always come first.

All that said, I've had some interesting email exchanges with the XW today. It all started off with her asking me if I could pick the kids up kind of early on Sat. Turns out a dog that they got from the pound a few months ago is more than she can handle and she wants to take it back. There's so much that I disagree with about this, it would take a thread of it's very own. One of them is that I fear it teaches them the lesson: If something is too hard, it's okay to give up. She feels that they'd be too traumatize to witness her giving the dog up. I feel it could be valuable for them to see in terms of consequences. Maybe they'll all think twice about taking home that "cute" little doggy in the window.

Anyway, she was unwavering in her choice, but she did go on to speak highly of my GF. Though they haven't met, apparently the kids speak highly of her to their mom, and she expressed gratitude and happiness that I have brought someone into my life who is good to them.

I'm willing to take this expression from her at face value and not read sort of reverse psychology into it.

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Anyway, she was unwavering in her choice, but she did go on to speak highly of my GF. Though they haven't met, apparently the kids speak highly of her to their mom, and she expressed gratitude and happiness that I have brought someone into my life who is good to them.

I'm willing to take this expression from her at face value and not read sort of reverse psychology into it. [/quote]

Too bad about the dog, a couple of months is just not enough time to get into a routine....but I won't go on and on about that.

I wanted to make a comment about your ExW's comments about your GF. I think that is awesome. I received an email from my boyfriend's Ex-wife about two months ago that meant the world to me - she just wanted to tell me how happy she was that she and I have a cordial relationship (we do) and how happy she was that I was good to her kids - that I treated them as if they were my own. I cried for about an hour after reading that email.

I hope you told your GF about the nice things your ExW said - it will mean the world to her too, I'll bet.

Laura


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When people meet other people under appropriate conditions and get involved all "above water" (as opposed to "under the table" as in an affair), there aren't going to be any hard feelings by ex's or others involved. It's interesting because I'm dating a guy who is also separated (Canadian version so divorced to the rest of you). I knew him and his ex when they were still married even before their daughter was born. His ex is thrilled that he's seeing me. A lot of it because she knows who is around her daughter. In fact, she has even called me to pick her up when she was running late. If I didn't know better, I'd say she was matchmaking.

It basically illustrates what could sort of be a "second teir" screen. If the person passes your initial requirements and you go out and you discover you like them, how do you decide whether to take it further? One question I would definitely put on this list is, can I proudly introduce this person to everyone in my life? And, are there any circumstances under which I wouldn't mention this person? If there are, maybe it's time to move on to the next one before you start to develop an attachment.

Funny thing, WstbxH can't understand how BF's exW and I get along so well, while OW and I can't tolerate each other. It's pretty simple, actually.

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Tabby, I can understand... a LOT! My ex's GF is good to my kids, and she is a good person. I do not mind her being with the my kids for a multitude of reasons: she is good to them, she is responsible with them- and her kids, she is conscientious, she is a .... DARE I SAY... a good PARENT. And that is most important! It is easier to get along with someone that is good to your kids, than fight about trivial things. And this is a good thing. I do not want to waste any of my time being upset about things that are beyond my control!

On a different note... I broke things off with the guy that was younger than me, but that I got a lot of my needs met from him. But, he just did not want the whole "family dynamic' (his words)... I was sad, but I told him bye....i did not introduce him to my kids or anything, just he was not READY.

So I wallowed in self pity for a day, and then I decided to enjoy what life DOES give me-

I have a habit of finding a penny everyday, and when I do I say to myself "find a penny, pick it up, find a penny leave it there, all the day you'll have dispair'. The thing is, I find a penny, almost anywhere, EVERYDAY. So everyday, I think about the good things that have happened to me for that day. And today, when I was feeling bummed, I came into work, and all of my managers were all excited about the dinner I was taking them out to. Then my maintenance guy had hooked up music for me, so that I could focus while doing paperwork... and it went on from there.... and you know what? life is what you make of it, not who is WITH you... and I realized, life is good. I have a job, a family and kids that love me, and friends, that love me. I may not be WITH anyone, but I still have a HUGE support network everywhere...

Life is good... just had to share!

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TJ - -
Warning, Spoiler:
Every time I see this thread's title, I think: "If you date, I hope you date people. What else would you date? I would hate to think you were dating the dogs and cats and horses. Wait, my x might like to date a Roomba. It would clean for him while he wasn't home."

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Cinderella I keep thinking the same thing! Then again, most dogs I know are better than most people I know!

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I have given up dating for a while and decided just to socialize and have some fun this holiday season. So far it is working very well. The one thing that I thought I would on these long cold nights is having somebody next to me. \:\( But, events have proven more positive than I initially had thought.

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 Originally Posted By: Tabby1
Another thing you could put on your check list is shift work. There's another thread going about somebody dating a shiftworker and having problems because they hardly ever see or speak to each other. I can relate to this. I might use it as part of my screen.


One of my criteria for dating is that the person must actually have availability to date. My standard in this regard with visitation issues would be at least one night per weekend, with visitation, at least one night every other weekend. Serious dating would require a more serious schedule than that.


Me: 48 XW: 44 DD: 15
Lived Together: 7 Married: 18 Total: 25 years
W announced divorce 11-3-2006, I moved out 11-7-2006, served papers 11-8-2006. Divorce final 12-19-2006. Life gets better every day.
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Two types of women I noticed on the on-line sites:

-Teachers (I guess their's a dirth of available men in their work environment)

-Nurses (I suspect that their shift work and overall odd hours make having a social life very difficult.)

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