Whether the A has turned in a PA already is irrelevant. Marty could still be stratigic. No one said break the door down and punching OM's face in. He could have done a lot to gather intel and disrupt OM and WW in the act before it went to the point of no return. There were other alternatives. Thank God no one gave this advice to mgolfer.

**EDIT**

STOP!

We don't know that any attempt would have been unsuccessful because all Marty was shown was two choices:

Let it happen and get proof or Don't let it happen and get nada.
Saying "what's one more time in the scheme of things" isn't being honorable. I understand the battle vs the war, I do. But these were HORRIBLE battle plans.

This is a war, not just a single battle.

Marty needs to be thinking longer range/longer term.

Sure he could barge in and stop it from happening THIS TIME. However, WW is going to deny anything but friendship. OM came over to TALK. She's already laying the groundwork for relationship problems with Marty and got him agreeing that things are bad. If he barges in and catches *nothing* then she might take the next steps of telling everyone that Marty is becoming unstable. She's already making long range plans.

What she wants to do is ease her way out of the marriage, and bring OM into the picture innocently.

He needs this evidence/proof for exposure to family, friends and his children. He needs to be able to prove otherwise when WW claims "he's just a friend".

No he doesn't. His marriage is him and his wife, not the friends and family.

Exposure's a great tool. Exposure with evidence is a little better. It is not the only weapon though.

Knowingly letting your spouse have sex with OP is sick and against your vows.

Ends DO NOT justify means, even in marriage.

Folks,

I think you know who you are. I strongly disagree with the advice given to Marty to STOP his W from being with OM. Here is why.

1. He has no evidence.

2. He does NOT CONTROL HIS WIFE. NEVER DID NEVER WILL.

3. IF SHE WANTS TO BE WITH OM SHE IS GOING TO DO IT, if not now, then later.

Men don't stop their W's from having affairs. Women don't stop men from having affairs. It is a personal decision to violate the marriage, their vows, and their honor.

The betrayed, ONCE THEY KNOW FOR SURE, have several options;

1. Kick them to the curb.

2. try reconcilliation and then divorce

3. Try rconcilliation and have the marriage survive.

None of these choices can be made until it is KNOWN with evidence that the affair is on.

All of us agree that the circumstances strongly suggest that Marty's W is having an affair. NONE OF US KNOW SHE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR.

So it seems to me the advice you have to STOP this tonight, is premature. Further, he cannot stop this.

Even MyRev didn't stop FogFree's affair, he just threatened her. She had to decide to stop it or leave, but make no mistake it was HER CHOICE. Not his.

The purpose of this site is to afford troubled marriages the best chance to survive in a "win-win" situation. It is not to say, "she looks guilty kick her out". Ultimately many marriages cannot/should not be saved, but that should be determined with a full set of data before all parties concerned.

As for the "hit" Marty "might"take by her actions, let's not forget the "hits" he has already taken and those that will come. If his W were attacked he should fight for her. She is not being attacked, she is voluntarily damaging her marriage, KNOWING the consequence even if in the end she does not want to accept what the consequences might be.

Folks, support the man, don't herd him into premature actions that could harm HIM.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Marty,

What I'm taking from this debate is that following Mortarman's advice... which is MarriageBuilders advice... is not for the faint of heart, I guess.

Winning your wife back will be hard. It will require you to think strategically. It will require a degree of self-control and coolness under pressure that you may not know you possess. But there are countless men here who found that strength when they needed it, and who executed a MarriageBuilders plan, piece by piece, and successfully won back their wives and rebuilt a shattered marriage into something stronger than it was.

This may all be moot, because if I read this correctly, this happened last night. Right?

Regardless... MM is right. If you bust down the door, and they deny it... what then? How can you prevent her from doing what she may be hell-bent on doing? Given that you are not around her 24 hours a day.

You need to know what she is doing, because armed with that information, you can develop a plan of action to win her back.

Ultimatums are fine if you intend to force her to stay, and if you want a marriage where your wife is seething with resentment. Or if you're prepared to kick her to the curb if she doesn't immediately comply. But if you want to build a marriage, a real marriage, out of the rubble that your marriage has become... you will need to win back her heart.

The MarriageBuilders plans are designed to bust up the affair and then to win back her heart. Ultimatums and smashing down the door and all that are great for busting up the affair... maybe... although I think it's much more likely to drive her into OM's arms and away from you. But I don't see how you build something worth having when the only reason she stays is because of threats and ultimatums.


Winning back your wife is the mission, Marty. Winning back her love and her allegience. You have to think strategically here. There is more involved than simply busting up the affair. But even the goal of busting up the affair will be better achieved by following the Marriage Builders plans - which work - rather than winging it.

Hold on here...

There is no way one person can MAKE another person do anything, unless there are guns or violence involved, and even then, a person chooses the alternative to death.

It is solely up to a WS to cheat. If the BS tries to stop them...physically, emotionally, monetarily...it is still a choice the WS chooses to continue.

The A will end sometime. Like an addiction, the A will run it's course, and although happy now, will seem more and more the worse option for their life. We can make those consequences come about sooner for a WS, but we cannot MAKE another person choose to end an A.

Eventually the BS will give the WS the choice of...either the A or the M.

To assume the BS has some control over this A, or can make the WS stop their activity is a bit childish, like throwing a tantrum to get their way, and shows a disrespect for other people.

Respectful disagreement is ok, personal attacks and profanity is not! Be respectful and productive if you disagree.

I am watching!

Thanks,
Revera

JL,

I agree with almost everything you said. No one is attacking WW wife and if she wants to be with OM she will find a way. But I do not agree that this was well thought out nor the ONLY alternative. Again, no opposing poster said act prematurely and bust down the door 5 mins after OM shows up. I'll just leave it at that until Marty shows up and gives an update.

As someone who crossed the line, a bit, I would not advise anyone to do anything confrontational or violent. Kicking a door in might result in a lot of bad things, including a bullet to the chest from the OM.

Even if his car is there, she'll just make up some BS about him dropping off a work file. WS can lie in the face of amazing evidence.

I assume this already went down last night, and we haven't heard from Marty.

I think if it were me, with no time to set anything up like DVRs or a PI, I would cruise by the house a few times and see if her car is there or any others are. Call the house from your cell and say you are thinking about her.

Yes, this should be an interesting reply. He said he had a DVR that he hoped to get into her car last night. I hope he did.

My guess is she never went to her parents home. They went to a hotel.

JL hits exactly on the problem here. And the possible solutions.

The issue on gaining intel and what to do if the OM shows up at the parents house with his wife, is that of...how do I know? Sure, the gut feeling is there. Previous affairs have shown the same pattern. But there is no proof.

Now, why does he need proof? Afterall, his wife KNOWS she is in an affair, right? The issue here is the ability to use ALL of his weapons against the affair. What weapons are there?

Well, the first is exposure. When I had the photos, the PI reports, etc...there was no way my wife could even try to squirm out from under what she had done. No way anyone that I exposed to could draw any other conclusion than what the facts were.

Now, let's say for argument's sake, that they havent "consummated" the affair yet. And the plan is to do so over at her parents' house. Okay...if Marty goes over, and waits for awhile and then knocks on the door...what are the possibilities there?

1. They answer and he and she are caught red handed doing the deed.

2. They answer the door, and have done nothing but watch TV and share some queso dip.

It is doubtful that he would catch them in the act, unless again he had a key or busted down the door. So, #1 probably wouldnt happen. What is likely is #2. So, he shows up and does that? What then?

Well, a huge argument ensues, his wife tells him that she just wanted time to think and this guy was helping her get a man's perspective on how to get things better with Marty...that Marty has gone too far and this is scaring her.

Okay, so everyone in that room knows the truth (and it isnt what his wife just said). But, Marty cant prove it. So what happens is he walks out of that place, everyone is angry, the love birds take their affair deep underground and make it very hard for Marty to get the proof he needs for exposure to others...and his wife begins to tell everyone that Marty is crazy and is stalking her. Thus, she will have people that will help her because she really should leave because Marty is a mental patient!

Added to this the possibility of violence. Never underestimate this, even with someone that is normally non-violent. Put in that situation, nto a one of us could say for sure that we wouldnt hold back from giving the OM a wood shampoo with a baseball bat! And that in no way will help Marty!!

So, what is the alternative?

I have said the BEST alternative is to get a PI or someone he trusts to get the intel. Barring that, if he has to go, then he needs to just get all of the intel he can...and then proceed forward with exposure. He will have remained calm. He will have the goods on them. And all of the folks he exposes to cannot refute what he has or what she has done. Neither can she!

The idea is to have light thrust upon the affair, not to push it deeper into darkness!

Another quick weapon I had was by not confronting at the moment, and by getting intel fro ma myriad of sources, I penned the OM and my wife in. They began to thank that they could go anywhere and say anything...and I would know and hear it. Even when I wasnt getting intel, they still thought I was. It put a lot of pressure on what they were doing.

I hope that explains this.

JL,

I have to tell you ... I've lost a lot of respect for MB.

I TRULY feel that MB has done Marty a great disservice.

Given the recent "pendulum swing" of the "tone" of this board, I suppose its time to take a step backwards and reevaluate whether I am getting or giving anything of value by continuing to post/read here.

and


?

TA

And when I said pound the door down, the photos of whatever compromising position they were in would have been evidence at that point. Once the evidence was secured why wouldn't he bang on the door? Again I didn't say bash OM's face in. I didn't even mean kick the down literally, but yes I'd be pounding on it with my fists to interupt them and let them know I was there AFTER I had the pictures.

Marty- any update?

T/J

Hi, MyRev. I agree with you pretty much, well... Close to never. But I appreciate what you have to say. I'm here because I have faith in doing things the MB way, but there are those who don't. And in the real world, those of us trying to stay M and in good relationships via utilizing MB are sometimes up against those who don't do it MB style. So having other opinions and perspectives I think is helpful. Educating folks with facts, opinions, and true-life experiences is helpful. Ultimately, it's up to the individual to think on their own and act for themself. If they're here on MB, it's assumed that's where their desires lie and I'm for supporting that. But in the end, as we all know, we can't control others.

End T/J

This is A) RATIONAL and LONG-TERM thinking. Banging on the door or busting down the door is B) IRRATIONAL and SHORT-TERM thinking.

"A" is working a plan which WILL have greater odds of killing the (on-going) affair. "B" is reacting in the heat/passion of the moment which may stop things momentarily, but will certainly backfire in the long-run.

ITA with MM.

MyRev, why have you lost respect for MB? Is it because you feel the BS are not being proactive enough? Just curious..