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Originally Posted by fabulous_woman
Originally Posted by keepitreal
Originally Posted by fabulous_woman
Originally Posted by keepitreal
You made up the game, invited others to play, and then decided to switch rules mid-game.

You opened Pandora's box, and don't know how to shut it again.

It's a sickening story, and the sad thing is neither you or H show any morals whatsoever, and your little children are the victims. I feel sorry for them having to live in a home with sick sexual games going on.

Do you have (stable) family that would be willing to take custody of the children, while you two finish growing up? You could get good jobs and mail child support to the caretakers, and pray for your children to have a chance at learning right from wrong.

The way I raise my children is absolutely none of your business. Also you have no idea how much money we make...so why would u make a statement like," you can get a good job" ?? You have no idea who I am , where I am from, what my morals are, which are good, they just got a little messed up for a few minutes out of sheer curiosity, but my morals have returned and are the same as they always have been. Yeah, people experiment now a days...married or single. Yes I have already admitted I was wrong...and the only reason I judge my H is because, we made promises to each other...that were broken MANY TIMES! This stopped being about the THREESOME A LONG TIME AGO!

You are not being honest when you say "Your morals just got messed up for a few minutes" as per your direct quote :

" I am a bi curious woman so [b]I have always wanted to experiment sexually with a a female.[/b]"

You've obviously had moral problems for a long time, and you are upset because your husband's feelings are no longer under your control.

Carrying on sexual games is at complete odds with being a good parent, so at least during the time you were researching and exploring and planning and fantasizing about your gamnes, you were not being a good parent.

And no, this has not stopped being about the threesome. You want to think that, but it isn't the case.

Let me guess...you have a problem with homosexuality..is that correct?? Also what I do in my SPARE TIME...has nothing to do with my children. My children live a very happy priviledged life!

I have a problem with fornication and adultery period. Practicing homosexuality falls into those categories.

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Originally Posted by bigkahuna
Originally Posted by fabulous_woman
Let me guess...you have a problem with homosexuality..is that correct?? Also what I do in my SPARE TIME...has nothing to do with my children. My children live a very happy priviledged life!

That is delusional.

What you do is who you are.

What you do has everything to do with your fitness as a parent.

Exactly, BK! Thank you for your voice of reason.

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Originally Posted by fabulous_woman
When it comes to my sexuality...IT Does not effect what I do as a parent and WHO I AM! It is merely a sexual preference.
Say for instance, you enjoy bondage or anal sex...hell...even oral sex in YOUR BED ROOM! Does that effect your ability to raise a family???

Delusional.

When it comes to weakening/destroying your marriage, perverse acts such as swinging etc which will inevitably destroy your marriage will have a profound impact (negatively) on your children and speak directly to your fitness as a parent.


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and if I likes anal/bondage etc as long as it's with my WIFE or HUSBAND (in your case) that would be cool!

You can already see the folly of introducing a third party into your marriage.


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Yup! What bigkahuna said! Yup, he nailed it!

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Originally Posted by Just Learning
F_W,

Have you ever heard the term "you cannot unring a bell" ?

You had an affair with this woman BEFORE you and your H had the threesome, what message did that send to your H?

You two did not set boundaries before you tried this. Doesn't that tell you how little EITHER of you valued your marriage?

YOu say your H should be more strongly attracted to you because of her skills in bed and looks, right? But, if you read the articles on this site, you will quickly realize that something clearly attracted him to her, what was it?

You seem to not realize that many things go into a successful marriage with sex and beauty being only a few of those things, and as time moves on they often are found to be very unimportant.

It is nice of you to have quit yelling at him, but have apologized to him for YOUR affair with this woman? Have you discussed how you failed to keep your vows? Have you decided if you want to maintain the "bi-curious" lifestyle. Most men feel they can compete with another man, but if there is another woman, they have no chance. Did your H feel this way?

You say he has issues with bi-polar, how is this being addressed?

Please do as recommended, read the articles on this site. You will learn alot.

God Bless,

JL


Actually...I seem to have noticed as well as u did. That the way I wrote this seems to say that I had already been fooling around with her. But that was not the case. We started off as JUST friends. We flirted a lil and I was definetly intersted. But nothing ever happened until the night of our first encounter with my H. SO I NEVER HAD AN AFFAIR.
I am no longer pursuing other women and certainly never have or will pursue another man. My H has FINALLY after 4 years told me that he never wants me to be with anyone else again. That was the first and last female for me! (he used to suggest finding ME a girl.. so I never knew he had a problem) Which I am completely satisified with. I have apologized immensely and excepted my mistake. I regret it...but it's too late! We both have hurt each other so much..and during a big break down we apologized.

We are seeing his psych again...he has not seen one in quiet awhile and has been on and off of his medication. We do know that his disorder has alot to do with him not being able to control his urges. But of course he wont use it as an excuse.

I would also like to add that I am aware that beauty and sex are not important. But the thing is... I do everything I need to do. I even ask him to please let me know what he needs.... Please let me know if there is anything I can change!! Please...and u know what his answer is...." nothing"!

Last edited by fabulous_woman; 01/09/09 01:04 AM.

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My point to you guys..is this and only this.. oral, anal, threesomes, bondage, and hell even deficating on your partner is taboo. So for you to judge me is wrong. Take a look in the mirror before u open your mouth.


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Originally Posted by fabulous_woman
My point to you guys..is this and only this.. oral, anal, threesomes, bondage, and hell even deficating on your partner is taboo. So for you to judge me is wrong. Take a look in the mirror before u open your mouth.

WRONG

3 are OK with your partner if that is what you like
1 is unhygenic to say the least
1 is taboo/a violation of your wedding vows and thus forbidden.

You seem to be having trouble working out which is which.


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move on and worry about your own marriage.


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Oh I'm sorry - I thought you were looking for some advice. If I had realised you had all the answers I wouldn't have bothered.


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FW,

I'm not going to be harsh...

First... This has already been suggested but I'm going to re-suggest it... You have two threads going... this one and another in General Questions II... Stick with one thread. This one! And ask the moderators to move it to GQ II. Multiple threads cause confusion.

Second... Ask yourself this question... Do you want to save your marriage?

I assume the answer is yes otherwise you wouldn't be here.

Third... There are a lot of good people here who's marriages have been to He|| and back. They're speaking from expirance. And if they seem harsh don't take it personal. Infidelity is one of ... if not the most painful emotional experiances that someone can go through. Try and be open and honest with yourself about the advice you're recieving. They're giving you a dose of radical honesty. (One of the marriage building priciples of Dr. Harley)

Fourth... Someone already suggested this but I'm going say it again. No contact with the other woman... That's the one thing you and your husband can do in agreement right now... this very instant that will start you on the road to a healthy marriage.

This is getting long isn't it...LOL

Fifth... Get the books His Needs Her Needs, and Surviving an Affair, by Dr. Harley. You and your husband will do well to educate yourself with these two books. There are several other books that would be helpful but those two are an excellent start.

Last... If possible schedule a phone session with the Harleys. Or Maybe even go to a Marriage builders weekend.

Agreement in a marriage is good... usually. (Read the Policy of Joint agreement on this website)

The Policy of Joint Agreement.

You and your husband aggreed to bring a third party into the marriage. You both aggeed in essence to have an affiar... That's not good and now you see it as a terrible mistake. Your situation is somewhat rare or unique in that... you're both betrayed spouses, and you're both wayward spouses. That in itself is not totally rare. There are betrayed spouses that went out and had a revenge affair. The thing that makes your situation somewhat unique is that you both had an inappropriate relationship with the same person.

If you're genuine about having a healthy marriage ... one of the principles that you and your husband are going to have to embrace is that there are certain things that are exclusive to your spouse. Sex is one of them. Certain conversations should only take place between a husband an a wife.... is another. Many of those things are covered in articles on this website.

O.K.
I've rambled long enough...An open mind and a little humility will get you far on this forum.

Hope this helps.



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I would also like to add that my husband has a severe mental disorder/ bipolar.

Bipolar's have difficulties with boundaries and you should have known this.

Your husband is ill.

As the "healthy" person in the relationship...you are more culpable than him.

If he's not medicated...good luck trying to control his manic compulsions. I would recommend addressing his mental condition first as there is no such thing as an intimate relationship with a cycling bi-polar.

Are you certain this behavior was YOUR curiosity and YOUR decision as bi-polar's tend to be quite manipulative, passive aggressive and CONTROLLING. Many bi-polars commit adultery as they are unconfined by society norms. I'd EXPECT this of him and suspect it was somehow HIS idea. (not that you aren't responsible for going along with it...but whatever)

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- sounds like you two are well to do, which is typical of the functioning bi-polar. However, bi-polars are prone to blowing it all on a cycle and losing everything. As his wife...YOU should be in sole control of all finances to protect your family (especially him) from his delusions of grandeur. His illness WILL get worse with age. Most bi-polars die young and broke.

p.p.s. - The rub is most bi-polars refuse to allow anyone to control anything about them, hence, getting sole control of the finances or expecting complete fidelity is next to impossible.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
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"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Mr. W, she made it plain that she had always wanted to experiment with a woman, so I doubt H had to manipulate her. I hope she doesn't take your comments as further excuse to absolve herself of blame. So far the only thing she seems remorseful about, is that this turned into a sexual relationship that did not include her.

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First of all, let me say that I think other posters are being incredibly unfair to you by being so judgemental.
Considering your husband is bipolar, it seems like he really needs some professional help. Is he willing to work on this problem?

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Originally posted by keepitreal:
So far the only thing she seems remorseful about, is that this turned into a sexual relationship that did not include her.

Did you actually just say that? Offer your help to this woman! Or AVOID, since the subject elicits venom. If you just want to zero in for personal soapbox reasons, start your own thread. fabulous_woman made the following quotes on this very thread, in direct contradiction to your statement:

"and yes I admit and have many many many times...that yes the fact that they couldnt stop talking was my fault!!!!"

"I have said to him that I will NEVER DO ANY Sexual experimentation again!!! Yes, it kills me and I am paying for it...but I have also excepted it and moved on. We were both new to these things...It was all out of curiosity...and now we are paying!!"

"I already apologized...and taken responsibility...yes A MILLION TIMES. I also had a huge break down...where I sobbed my eyes out...and begged him to forgive me for poisioning our marriage."


fabulous_woman - My Ex and I fell down that slippery slope of swinging. Note the word "Ex." We unfortunately had even more downhill problems with which to contend than that. I want to offer my support for the recovery of your marriage. The subject of swinging often sets off forum fireworks around here, but there are many people who are able to discuss it in a helpful fashion. Ignore the ones who can't. Have you ever read The Desiderata by Max Erhmann? Concentrate on informed replies that focus on marital recovery utilizing MB concepts.

In my opinion, MrWondering offered some interesting, helpful insights.


Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.
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While adultery in all its forms is ugly to me, I will try to explain why I find swinging particularly egregious.

In many situations, what starts out in total innocence becomes tainted. Long term friends, co-workers, or even pastor/parishioner relations may start out with good intentions, then go down a terribly slippery slope, due to lack of boundaries. These also are INEXCUSABLE, but in many cases one can almost see the steps leading to the fog, brought on by confused emotions.

With swinging, it is not about a slippery slope, it is not about confusion, it is not about a friendship dropping its boundaries. It is a deliberate planned out event to satisfy a deviant sexual desire. That's it.

It is very similar to going to a hooker, although in a sense, even much worse, because you are inviting a third party into your marital bed, into your very LIVES!

These situations are sheer filth willingly planned and sought out, all for scratching a sexual itch.

It really IS that simple, and I've seen it IRL often enough to know of whence I speak.

I liken it go going out and standing in heavy traffic, then complaining when hit by a car.

Sure, there's still a chance of recovery, if the OP is willing to repent to God and ask for and accept a new heart. Otherwise, any adivce would be like a bandaid for cancer.

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Originally Posted by MrWondering
Quote
I would also like to add that my husband has a severe mental disorder/ bipolar.

Bipolar's have difficulties with boundaries and you should have known this.

Your husband is ill.

As the "healthy" person in the relationship...you are more culpable than him.

If he's not medicated...good luck trying to control his manic compulsions. I would recommend addressing his mental condition first as there is no such thing as an intimate relationship with a cycling bi-polar.

Are you certain this behavior was YOUR curiosity and YOUR decision as bi-polar's tend to be quite manipulative, passive aggressive and CONTROLLING. Many bi-polars commit adultery as they are unconfined by society norms. I'd EXPECT this of him and suspect it was somehow HIS idea. (not that you aren't responsible for going along with it...but whatever)

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- sounds like you two are well to do, which is typical of the functioning bi-polar. However, bi-polars are prone to blowing it all on a cycle and losing everything. As his wife...YOU should be in sole control of all finances to protect your family (especially him) from his delusions of grandeur. His illness WILL get worse with age. Most bi-polars die young and broke.

p.p.s. - The rub is most bi-polars refuse to allow anyone to control anything about them, hence, getting sole control of the finances or expecting complete fidelity is next to impossible.

We have an appointment with his psychiatrist in about a week. We are also going to see a marriage counselor for the very first time in a couple of days.

He had been cycling a lot.. but now he tells me that he feels like he has his self control back( for now). My husband is very hyper sexual as well and is trying to control his urges to look at nudity. I am relatively healthy mentally...but I do tend to get angry fast. I have started meditating and going on walks to calm myself down.

I am really actively trying Plan A. He seems very happy and says he wants to save our marriage. We tried Plan B but that only lasted for 5 hours. He begged me to come home with him and our oldest son. So of course, I gave in. For 3 nights we slept alone. But on the third day we made VERY passionate love and he apologized! Then on the fourth day I had a huge break down in which I let EVERY EMOTION and FEELING I HAVE EVER HAD OUT.. I apologized for allowing our marriage to be POISONED!

But as far as who's choice it was to have the threesome. It was mostly mine..he pushed the idea of me being with this female on to me. But I suggested we be with her together! But the night it happened we invited her in the room...she could have said NO! It's not like we had ever talked about it with her!! So she wanted to watch us together. Which was fine by me...but he jumped all over her!
My husband is very manipulative. He knows me..and knows what to do to make me forgive him. He even knows what to say! HE DOES NOT KNOW WHY HE DOES WHAT HE DOES! Especially since he tells me that he is happy and does not need anything extra from me. But I have a hard time believing that. I want to save my marriage and so does he. I just hope he is strong enough to control himself.


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Originally Posted by keepitreal
While adultery in all its forms is ugly to me, I will try to explain why I find swinging particularly egregious.

In many situations, what starts out in total innocence becomes tainted. Long term friends, co-workers, or even pastor/parishioner relations may start out with good intentions, then go down a terribly slippery slope, due to lack of boundaries. These also are INEXCUSABLE, but in many cases one can almost see the steps leading to the fog, brought on by confused emotions.

With swinging, it is not about a slippery slope, it is not about confusion, it is not about a friendship dropping its boundaries. It is a deliberate planned out event to satisfy a deviant sexual desire. That's it.

It is very similar to going to a hooker, although in a sense, even much worse, because you are inviting a third party into your marital bed, into your very LIVES!

These situations are sheer filth willingly planned and sought out, all for scratching a sexual itch.

It really IS that simple, and I've seen it IRL often enough to know of whence I speak.

I liken it go going out and standing in heavy traffic, then complaining when hit by a car.

Sure, there's still a chance of recovery, if the OP is willing to repent to God and ask for and accept a new heart. Otherwise, any adivce would be like a bandaid for cancer.

This was put nicely. It was just a filthy desire that was fulfilled and left a BIG MESS BEHIND! We will NEVER NEVER NEVER DO THAT AGAIN! As long as I live I will never do it again! I have begun to spread the word to curious wives and husbands. I told them my story and hopefully it scares them away from the idea of a third party in the bedroom.


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Originally Posted by Lucks
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Originally posted by keepitreal:
So far the only thing she seems remorseful about, is that this turned into a sexual relationship that did not include her.

Did you actually just say that? Offer your help to this woman! Or AVOID, since the subject elicits venom. If you just want to zero in for personal soapbox reasons, start your own thread. fabulous_woman made the following quotes on this very thread, in direct contradiction to your statement:

"and yes I admit and have many many many times...that yes the fact that they couldnt stop talking was my fault!!!!"

"I have said to him that I will NEVER DO ANY Sexual experimentation again!!! Yes, it kills me and I am paying for it...but I have also excepted it and moved on. We were both new to these things...It was all out of curiosity...and now we are paying!!"

"I already apologized...and taken responsibility...yes A MILLION TIMES. I also had a huge break down...where I sobbed my eyes out...and begged him to forgive me for poisioning our marriage."


fabulous_woman - My Ex and I fell down that slippery slope of swinging. Note the word "Ex." We unfortunately had even more downhill problems with which to contend than that. I want to offer my support for the recovery of your marriage. The subject of swinging often sets off forum fireworks around here, but there are many people who are able to discuss it in a helpful fashion. Ignore the ones who can't. Have you ever read The Desiderata by Max Erhmann? Concentrate on informed replies that focus on marital recovery utilizing MB concepts.

In my opinion, MrWondering offered some interesting, helpful insights.

Thank you so much for understanding and for being helpful. I feel your advice will be one I can really use. Seeing how you have been there!


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Originally Posted by keepitreal
Mr. W, she made it plain that she had always wanted to experiment with a woman, so I doubt H had to manipulate her. I hope she doesn't take your comments as further excuse to absolve herself of blame. So far the only thing she seems remorseful about, is that this turned into a sexual relationship that did not include her.

He wont admit that he slept with her alone. But I know in my heart that he has. As much as it disgusts me.... I have already convinced myself that he was with her at least one time alone. They mostly "talked" but the messages I read were DISGUSTING! I read them out loud to him and he COULD NOT BARE TO HEAR THEM! Hopefully that woke him up a little bit!


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