Just watching that makes me tired.

Thank goodness for young'uns...they keep us young.

Hey, if he decides to to martial arts see if they have any classes where kids and adults can both take, or if they have any back-to-back where one is for kids and one for adults.

My daughter wanted to do martial arts and we found a taekwondo studio that offered mixed classes on Saturdays and back-to-back classes (youth then adult) a couple of nights a week. So I did taekwondo too... it was so much better than sitting around in the waiting area flipping through ancient magazines or trying to read a great paperback while other Moms are trying to chat with you. Ugh.

You'd be surprised how great martial arts is for giving you focus, a goal, motivation, and confidence. It was really fun!

So this morning DS10 is being a stinker about his school work and having a less than lovely attitude. I tell him that if doesn't change his attitude that I will not be taking him to trade his video game in. So he says, "your a bad mom and DD17 will be a better mom than you" to which I respond to your room, i will meet you there you have just received 1 spanking.

Now I give spanking's on rare occasions, mostly when boundaries are crossed badly and DS10 has been long over due. I have let some of the disrespect go because of all that has happened but I do not want to over compensate to the effect that I spare the rod and spoil the child. Even DD17 has questioned why I am allowing him to be so disrespectful. So He gets his 1 spanking and I tell him when you are calm I would like you to come out of your room and apologize and tell me why you are apologizing.

So he comes out about an hour later since he feel asleep and we meet in my room. I say DS10 you have hurt my feelings. I am a good mom and I don't deserve what you have said to me. DS10 is there anything you would like to say. He says I am sorry mom and I ask him why and he says for saying you are a bad mom. I ask him, do you believe that I am a bad mom and he says, NO.

I say I forgive you son now come give me a hug. So he plops down on my lap(mind you he is huge, he weighs as much as me and looks me in my face) and I say DS10 whats going on? He begins to weep and say I miss my dad. I say would you like to call him and he says no. At this point he is sobbing on mommas lap while I am bear hugging him. He asks me why is it so hard for him to leave the Sea Hag mom? I say IDK son.

Okay not sure if this was okay to do, but this whole find your voice thing has started a spark in him. He says can I email him again and ask dad and I say sure. But just to be sure that I wasn't being accused of the idea I called in DD17 to my room and she see's DS10 upset so I tell her that DS10 is upset and he wants to write another email, I just want you to be witness. She says ok no problem and encourages her brother to write it.

DS10 sent another email to his dad. Is this too much? I didn't want to say no because he is starting to communicate where as before he was petrified and refused. Here is his email below.

dad,

i am crying.why is it so hard for you to leave Sea Hag?i am hurting and i am upset because i dont know why you are doing this.write me back and tell me why.


I guess he said write me back because he has been asking for 2 days if his dad responded to his 1st email. Then he woke up this morning and says he had a dream. He said I dreamed that dad mailed all the credit cards in his wallet to you and you opened it and wondered why he did that and then came around the corner and said, it was hard but I had to do it(DS10 said it meant he was coming home).

Anyways that was my day. I have give DS10 a second chance to buckle down finish his class work and we will go to the video game store.

Hey T2L {{{hugs}}}},

I love the easy access of texting and e-mails but sometimes you miss the emotion of speaking to that person. You don't really get their true reaction.

Even though you told your son "no expectations", in his mind there are definitely strong expectations. He is probably trying to figure out in his young mind why Daddy did not come running home. (All of us on the board would have run, leaped, sprinted after reading his e-mail but this is the unfog world). I know with my D15, sometimes she thinks she has the power to rule her father (she doesn't) but it is a disappointment when he does not react to her texts or just ignoring him.
They are babies inside their young soul. They want it all back and it is frustrating that we cannot give it to them.

If he gets upset again, instead of text/emails, I would encourage him to pick up that phone and talk to his father and let his father deal with the true pain instead of something he could ignore in his fog babble. H might think you are putting your son up to this (your not) and justify why he is not calling back.

Take care...

T2L, IMO, you are handling things with your son perfectly. You have given a bit of grace to him considering his suffering, but are holding him accountable when he crosses a line. He needs that.

I would suggest you let DS make the call on when and how he communicates with his dad. Remember, let their relationship be theirs, and you support him through what he needs to do. If he is most comfortable with email right now, let him email any day that he wants to.

You really are doing great!

"The joy comes in the morning."

H called DS10 tonight and left a message saying he got DS10's emails and he has a letter written out but that his employers wireless communications have been down and he has not been able to respond but he has a letter for him.

I am afraid. What will it say? What stupid excuse will he give DS10? I told DS10 to not get his hopes up and I warned him that he may not get the answer he wants but that he did it so he could get it off his chest.

He sounded better but I am sure, it will be the same crap. I am sure it will be the "it didn't work out", "I can be a better father when I'm not with your mom", or what every stupid thing he thinks my son may buy. I mean really what can you say to those emails? I guess we will know in the next day or so.

So tell me if he gives those excuses what or how do I respond or explain them to DS10? I can't really say " yeah DS10 it didn't work out" because marriage is not a try on. I can't really say he will be a better father or dad because he is out of the home.

I am more than 90% sure he is getting counsel from those who are supporting him in this so the letter will more than likely be more than what my H could write. They will give him all the elaborate freaking liberal bull cr@p to make it okay to a 10 year old. I will know immediately if he wrote it as he has a hard time expressing himself.

And then there is the other part of me that thinks there's no hope. I mean I've been in this stupid Plan B for over 2 months now and NO signs of nothing! Nothing, nothing, nothing! What if he is darn happy with the Sea Hag? I mean there is that possibility. I wasn't perfect, but I was a decent wife. Had a few things, but I tried to darn hard and he was never "fully" happy or content.

I am worried. I'm pretty sure this letter is gonna be crap and now my son has to hear the EXCUSES. I don't want my son to believe the EXCUSES!

If it's that bad, we can always do a translation for him.

I'm sure it won't be bad as in hurtful to DS10 in a violent way. His message sounded very nice to DS10. I just don't want my son hearing justifications for adultery and liberal reasons for his departure and absence from the family.

Most of world puts a stupid red bow on these things and makes even adultery sound like a freaking fairytale that we all may want to be a part of too, ya know what i mean? They put a fluffy mushy gushy spin on it and expect us to go "ouuuu and ahhhh" and be romantically taken away in bliss over there lame excuse. I don't want my child doing that.

I do want to read it with him and be here to explain things to him as his mother. When i tucked him in tonight i explained to him that it may not be what he wants to hear but that I am proud of him for speaking his mind. I also told him that my friends on MB might be able to talk to him as well. So Neak I may take you up on that.

So can DS10 respond to him if he does not like the answers or is that pointless and damaging to him or should he again speak his mind. The thing is when your 10, your young and slightly impressionable but you are also NOT stupid and lies don't usually fly to well.

And truly I am worried to hear it myself. What if I read this and it sounds so done. I really just want to give up! Really I do. I can see no light at the end right now, i see no victory, what I see is defeat. Isn't that horrible. I cannot see him coming home. He thinks in his mind that I need to change and its my fault and if he really believes that not even a PB can change that. I am sick of this i really am.

I know stay busy, more puzzles, memorize proverbs in braille, got it got it.... still feel like quitting.

Can you hear the ticking of the clock? With each tick my love bank drains just a bit and even a PB can't stop time. Don't think it matters anyways, I can't see him come home not even for kids. Too much pride just like his mother. That woman will go to her grave like that.

And to top it off my H apologized to his mother for all the smack he talked about her. He apologized to this woman who was a horrible mother, has had strained relationships with all her kids, i could go on and on. But I was 100X the woman she was to him and he apologizes to her WTH!

IM JUST SICK OF THIS!!!!! I see no end in sight. Goal 3 months and 10 days I will have reached 1 year of dday. That's the day that I am making a decision even if only in my heart. Why wait for someone you love when they may never turn, be humbled and love you back. Sounds like self inflicted abuse to me.

Sorry for the rotten attitude.

No you don't have the rotten attitude -- he does.

Will keep you in my prayers tonight. Remember as you tell me "no expectations".

Wait till the letter comes and see what he says. I think your son needs a face to face with his father instead of all this correspondence. Stay strong girl.

{{{{{{{{{{ T2L }}}}}}}}}}

I'm scared for you and DS10 as well, but I'm praying. I'm praying for God to shield DS10 from any evil msgs that may be in WH's letter.

I don't know what to tell you. WH is just an utter and complete doofus. I saw your picture, and I've read your posts. You are beautiful through and through, inside and out. WH must be blind, inside and out. I'll pray that his eyes are opened soon.

This did give me a smile:


LOL You remembered!

You know what? Maybe you haven't thought of it like this yet but... you are in control. I encourage you to stick with Plan B, but technically if/when you've had enough you can always call it quits and go to Plan D. Not the happy ending we are all praying for, but you would be justified. You don't have to wait forever. I think re-evaluating when you reach the one-year mark is a good goal to keep in mind.

*hugs* and *prayers*

Yeah I should wait til it comes but I can't imagine its gonna be any good for DS10 or me.

Well I have spoken to my son and he out right refuses to tell his dad anything, he says he can't. He says I have never talked to my dad like that. He won't do it, I think it just freaks him out. He only feels comfortable emailing him at least for now. I did ask him today when he was crying if he wanted to call and he said no.

My worry is if he ever does talk to him face to face H will justify and twist. I don't want that. At least via email I can have the option of combating the lies and justifications with truth. DD17 I don't have to do that but with my son he's only 10. He usually can't be lied to that much but if it is spun well almost any child could believe it. So for now I am glad its email. He does not want to visit at this point unless DD17 goes and she is not in a visiting mood.

I see no light here really I don't. I can see more light with your H than mine cuz when the job and other stuff hits the fan that relationship is doomed. Don't see that for me. My H lives with her and has lived with her since August. I was hoping that it would ruin the fantasy but I see no improvements. I don't in my heart feel he's happy but now its about punishing me and how i need to change.

Sick of all of it. BIG FAT JERK! Yes I could move on and have no problem finding someone and moving on and probably being really happy, since I'm a happy person anyways(well at least Pre-A) but NO I'm sitting here trying to hold on for this man who is a complete jerk to me and has hurt me and my children horribly. Why why why!

Okay making a conscious choice to shut up right now.

Keep me posted on the progress with the exposure at work.

Thanks for support.

Digging up your plants again....

I am diggin up plants! I'm not just digging I am ripping, stomping and throwing weed killer all over the whole stinkin garden. {{{{Sigh}}} I mean gosh, real plants bloom faster and at least they are lovely! Maybe I should planted a real garden instead of planting seeds inside of a lunatic!

My H never examines his self(even Pre-A), is that a male trait? I guess I made up for that always examining my heart and motivations for every little thing.

Can a FWS tell me before you recovered, did you ever examine your self or did you always blame something else and was it the PB that made you finally look to yourself?

Anyways, I'm trying to hold on. It's pretty hard. My hurt starts to sound like anger. I do fine for a few days then angry and want to give up and then starts all over again. Okay they say at 3 months in PB you start to feel better. Then I guess in 3 more weeks I'll be sailing...well it sounds good in theory at least.

{{self talk}} Focus, keep going, keep praying, breathe, stop thinking and no more gardening for a few days LOL. How bout gardening in braille, I mean at least i won't be able to see those darn flowers right?

Well as soon as we get that response from H to DS10 about his emails you can bet I'll be posting it.

G'night y'all

BTW I really think I would go nuts if it weren't for everyone who pops on, my IM's and this forum. You are pretty much the only ones I am talking to right now. I kinda have pulled away from everyone.

I have not been to church yet. Need to be in the right place before I go back, mostly for the protection of them. I don't want to spew. When I emailed my pastor last month and told him after i was asked to step down that I needed 2-3 weeks off to pray through some stuff. He said no problem I understand and that he wanted to come by the house after he got back in town. Pretty much I have disappeared off the radar. I have received a few worried texts where i respond with some simple thanks for your prayers.

Anyways I thank God for this support, its a life line. Its the only light I do see right now.

Have you found a therapist your son can work with who recognizes what manipulations your WH has put him through?

Who can act as mediator with your son to protect him when he meets with his dad, and support him in finding his words, without you needing to break Plan B? And still providing protection for your son?

Maybe you could get your son a journal that is his alone to write in. If he has a problem talking to a person he is angry with-- maybe he can write it down.

OR, my personal favorite- get him a sketchbook and some paints, pencils and glue- lots of glue.

Boys are visual beings -- even if they can't draw they like to sketch ideas out. You may get him a book on drawing cars in perspective- they seem to like that

Also get some magazines about cars, trucks and the like. Sometimes they can cut out pictures and collage posters to hang in room-

Point is- keep busy, keep creative, keep them inventing.

P.S. My professional advice:
Don't "read" too much (or anything) into images- sometimes a skull and crossbones is just a "cool" skull and crossbones-- not a sign of anything else.

Good morning T2L.

I know you are afraid of WH's response to your DS. But here's a word of encouragement.

I think there are some similarities in our families. I am guessing that your children have probably been taught God's truth from early on. My younger three boys (ages 6-10 at the time) were confused by WS's lies and twists. But IN THEIR HEARTS they knew the lies were lies. They often couldn't UNTWIST it all and see WHY or HOW it was lying, but their SPIRITS were unsettled and could not ACCEPT the lies as truth.

When I was aware of a lie, I would counter it with God's truth. But I didn't have to tell them it was a lie, they already knew in their hearts that it was.

I think your son will, too. His spirit will not embrace the lies. He may need help sorting through it to understanding how to counter it with truth; but he will know it is NOT truth.

tst told our kids that they would see him MORE now that he had moved out. Now, explain that one to me! He said lots more to them, but that one, it almost makes me laugh (if it weren't so sad) it's so ridiculous.

There's always the possibility that the letter will never come, that he doesn't have anything written out. He's been completely lazy since you went to Plan B. Not much calling, not much visiting, a few texts to your DD17... the email that he has "all written out but cannot send" might just be a smokescreen, just something to make DS10 think his Dad does think and care about him.

Well the message did say, I have a letter for you and I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. I will get this to you in the next day or 2."


I'm pretty sure he's going to send it. He hasn't contacted them or visited them but IMHO it has nothing to do with being lazy. That's his way of protesting the kids, usually DD17, being mad at this or not being able to come to family functions.

Oh yeah forgot to mention this, yesterday DD17 calls me and she says momma I called dad, I say ok, she says I told him that I was upset that we didn't have any money to do anything for your birthday. I say DD17 that's really sweet of you but I don't want you to have to beg, not even your dad. She says well he said the reason why is his employer brought them all in and on payday and said we are switching to bi-weekly pay and they gave them no advance notice and everyone was arguing with them because no had time to save up.

Then GET THIS!!!! She says well I want to do something for momma for her birthday as she didn't get much for Christmas and I don't want it that way for her birthday. He says yeah I know, IF I WAS THERE I WOULD BUY HER SOMETHING WTH !!!!!! What on earth does that mean???

Anyways, financially I have not had to file as he has given us money. Its is lower and I am trying to work out to stay in the home. But H's job is in relation to economy and the housing market so his income has dropped a bit. He has told me that he does not want to lose the house if we can get the payment down(we bought in high tie 2 years ago). So after dday i consulted 3 different attorneys and they all said be prepared to lose your house. So from what they worked out, I would get less financially by filing since my H is giving us more that we would get if I did file. I don't know how long it will last as the OW may get pissed at some point that since the majority of the money goes to us. He told DD17 a few weeks ago that 90% of his income goes to us.

IDK I wish I could give him a swift kick in his pants!

Yes I have found a therapist, we had to reschedule intake but we should be going after the 22nd.

And DS10 loves cars and coloring. He colors daily and for Christmas I got him this really cool book that has traceable luxury cars that you can color in.

Did you get that maze link I posted?

My kids LOVE mazes. Thought DS might like it too.

t2l, my D18 has had a lot of issues in her life. I have tried to approach them all with logic and by introducing her to the idea of psychology. I explain to her that the science of psychology dictates certain responses from people who have encountered certain experiences. For example, girls whose fathers leave them when the girl is between 10 and 15 have an exponentially higher risk of having SF, getting pregnant, or doing drugs - because the father leaving is a key blow to a developing girl - she takes it personally no matter what anyone says, and she turns to other males to get what she should be getting from her father.

Anyway, when a person has been mean to her, or something bad has happened, I've helped her work through it by explaining what I think is going on in that person's head.

It really helps her see inside the other person, see how they could come to the conclusion of doing this or that bad thing, how it would make sense to them. It helps her to be more compassionate toward them, and it helps her not take what is happening to her personally - i.e., she doesn't BLAME herself. I really think this is the one key step that has created such a strong, decisive, powerful young woman. It is so empowering to know that what other people do has NOTHING to do with you.

And incidentally, she is now going to go to college for a degree in psychology and plans to help kids with problems.

What do you think about trying that approach with DS10? Do you need help figuring out what to say, if you decide to do it? His main issues, as I see it, are fear of abandonment (fear of angering and pushing away his dad even more by talking to him in person, and this is going to stay with him his whole life if you don't address it) and self-doubt (blaming himself for not being good enough to keep his dad there).