ugottri, give me a break and cut the drama. Calling people "MEAN" when they catch you lying is nothing more than a gurly diversion. It is MEAN to lie to people who are trying to help you. It is not "mean" to point it out.

You don't seem to understand that you are in an environment where bullshytt has a very short shelf life. IT WON'T WORK HERE. You are so in the habit of lying and spinning in your personal life that you think that will fly here. Let me assure you that it will not. It stands out like a flashing RED LIGHT around here.

Calling people "mean" or any of the other names I have been called by you in the ONE WEEK you have been on this forum does not cover up what you are doing.

If you want to get help here you are have to knock off the lying, spinning and most of all, the name calling.

Honesty is what you are getting from us.
Honesty is not what you have been serving at home.

One of the reasons your "word" is not credible with us is because you have not been a truthful man for a long long time.

Like I told you on your other thread - your words are counterfeit - only your actions matter.

So --- do something honest & trustworthy.

UGT:

Two threads, Three Threads, it doesn't matter.

There are hundreds of threads on here from betrayed spouses asking if they should stop trying with thier wayward spouses who have told them that: "they are done with them, they are happy with AP and leave us alone"

So, you posted your doubts.

WHAT are you going to do?

We give it to your straight around here.

Actions and Honesty.

Start there.

LG

ugotttatri, were you not being honest when you said this earlier? I took you at your word and posted to you on this basis. So i will tell you just what the others are trying to tell you.

As people with an objective view whose minds are not wayward, your thoughts are replete with SPIN and DISHONESTY. I don't think you realize how GLARING it is to people with clear minds because your moral compass has been broken for so long. You are not even a good bullshytter. You wouldn't even make Amateur Night at an AA meeting.

Now, you may not like hearing that, but folks here are not uncaring enough to let that elephant in the living room go unmentioned. You need to KNOW how you are coming across to others. And it is not good. Attacking people for pointing that out does not make it go away either.

I suspect you have pulled this stunt on your wife in the past too. Right? When she pointed out your bullcrap, you attacked her as "mean," "bitter," "hateful," blah, blah... blah to shut her up? Well, that is Amateur Manipulation 101 and as you can see, it has not served you well. I would wager it has not served you well at home and it damn sure will not help you here.

Now, do you want help or not? Because no one here is going to blow smoke up your a** when it is clear you are spinning and lying. This is not that kind of forum.

I'd appreciate your response to this previous post. I particularly want to hear your thoughts about the 3 facts.
Thanks.

Fact number 1
You have been a liar and therefore your words are not good currency. You cannot change her mind by words alone.
I have lied not only through our whole mariage, but basically my whole life. I have already been through my first session with an independent counselor and have already learned some of it probably came from a lack of parental influence (mirroring I think they call it). Long story short, no self esteem and I have tried to make up for it with lies about everything life, career, status, myself in general. You're right, about lieing/spinning also...I was told recently that I lie so much, I don't even know I'm lieing anymore.Fact number 2
Her love bank is empty, not almost empty, empty. Your actions have convinced your wife that you do not love her and you will not protect her when she is vulnerable.
It's true....I didn't protect her. I didn't show her I loved her, in fact I did everything I could to show her the exact opposite.
Fact number 3
Your old marriage is dead and gone, there will be no resurrection of that old marriage. Any future marriage you may have with your wife will be build from the ground up, on the ashes of your failed marriage.
I don't want any part of what my old marriage represented. I really don't.

ML,

You're right....I'm just not used to getting called out. Period!
I have always been used to being able to control pretty much every situation that I chose to. Either through bullying or manipulation or a little of both. I never even really reazlized I was doing it to the degree that I was. Not proud of it, but aware now and I do want to do something about it.

I never accused her of being any of the things you said, but yes I manipulated my wife all the time. Usually by somehow turning blame onto her....I honestly sit here and can feel my mind trying to block out some of the things I said to her. I am sitting here and she just logged onto instant messenger and I haven't said hello, simply because I want to leave her alone for a change if that makes sense. I don't know why I just told you that, but it came to mind...It's one of the first times I have felt like I shouldn't say something for a change.

I am sorry ML and don't want you to think I don't appreciate you taking the time to talk to me because I do....Thank-You

Hey U-

It is doubtful that you are even ready to come completely clean ... it's the reason why Mrs. Sunshinestate and I originally wrote"

" I am sure we have not heard the whole story ... you are almost certainly controlling/shaping the narrative of your story."

We are willing to grant you sincerity -- We believe you want your marriage to survive (or at least that you WANT "to want it").

We are willing to assume you WANT to be a better man, in the same way smokers WANT to quit smoking. My alcoholic Granpda WANTED to be clean and sober ... he WANTED it more than anytihng. Wanting it, and doing the hard work are different. My Grandpa died an alcoholic.

A smoker isn't a non-smoker when he says, "I quit." He isn't a non-smoker days later ... not weeks later ... maybe not even months later. Only after months have added to months (and even turn to years) can the smoker -- based on his ACTIONS -- claim he has beaten his addiction.

Swear up and down whatever you like, and we will grant you the "desire" to change. But, you will not have CHANGED until your ACTIONS are different over enough time to prove yourself honorable & trustworthy.

Your wife (and your children) are NOT better off without you, if you can be the husband she deserves. If you aren't up for the hard work, though, just leave her alone. Do not use this site, or your wife's reluctance as an excuse to bow, nobly, out of your marriage.

It seems like you might be posting to look good. You know your wife might be reading this stuff, and you sound like you might be spinning things to look good. --To look like YOU tried to save things, but that SHE was unwilling to give you the chance.

The people responding to your post are wiling to help you, and they are trying to help you when they encourage you to stop spinning your story and to get real. Your story is NOT unique. We have all either heard this story from our spouses, or written it ourselves!!!

CHANGE YOURSELF ... be a better man ... give your actions TIME to prove your words ... Whether your wife is assured by those actions, or even notices them, is irrelevant at this point.

It is NOT for her, but for YOU.

Then, MAYBE -- If you REALLY want to change, and IF you can get yourself past your own bullsh$% -- MAYBE your actions will -- over time -- be enough for a wife who loved you deeply at one time, and who maybe still WANTS to love the man she THOUGHT you were (and who you say you WANT to be) -- to let herself approach reconciliation.

I have been in that place ... where you want you wife and your family and you just want it to go away ... you hate what you've done, and you want to let yourself off the hook for some of it ... I've spun the truth, left out details, and told all kinds of sort-of lies that I had convinced myself were "close enough" to the truth. My brother saw through it all, and called me on it at every turn -- I still lied to him. I wanted things to go away peacefully and politely. I tried to emerge clean from the dirty mess I made. You can't. You have to stop trying.

These people are NOT being mean. They will call it like they see it, and I have never seen the collective wisdom of these posts go the wrong way. Take a deep breath, attempt to clear away your indignance, and LEARN from these people! If you really want what you say you want, LISTEN TO and LEARN FROM us. If you have been using this thread to "look good," or to spin your version of the story so that you come across favorably to your wife (or whomever you have invited to read it), stop now, and go away. If you really want what you say you want, stay here, and LISTEN to what these people are saying. They are coming to you from a place of hard-learned experience.

Stop trying to control the message -- the story -- the fallout -- the damage you've caused. Again, take this time and use it wisely .... begin by making positive changes for yourself - own this, let your guard down, and humiliate yourself before anyone who still cares about you.

--Mr. Sunshinestate

U-



Ask yourself what you can do to be a better person ... for your kids? -- in your relationship as the parents of your children? within your extended family. -in the job that must have suffered as you led your double life?

Seriously, start with a list of what you can control in your life now ... today, tomorrow, next week...

Also, You CANNOT be in contact with the OW AT ALL! ... it is not in any way OK ... If I were your wife I would run from you. You cannot be kind to her, you will never be able to be friends or even friendly with her. Write a NC letter that is strong, and live by that ... SLAM THE DOOR SHUT! And when this winner, off with another guy now and still trying to contact you, tries to contact you again -- IGNORE HER


--Mrs. Sunshinestate

SE
I really am not in here to look good....I have been more open in these posts and in the last couple of weeks than I ever have in my entire life. I am scared and I do just want it to go away, but I know that's not possible and want to learn not only why I could possibly have done this, but also just learn more about myself and be a better person in general.

Like I said earlier, I have never put in the really hard work, I have always been able to manipulate and do what I had to do to get someone else to do it or take the blame for it not getting done....I just don't want my life and the people it effects to have to settle with that anymore.

Thanks and I will let you know when I schedule with Jennifer. If you do have anything else, I will listen and always be willing to take what you say to heart.

Thanks again,

The best thing you can do is come to reality that you are going down with no parachute.

Your marriage is a smoking crater, you just ain't made impact yet.

Hey U,

How are your kids holding up? How often are you seeing them? How are they dealing with all of this? Does your wife have support from friends and family?


Mrs. Sunshinestate

Mrs. SE

They are holding up pretty good actually.
I get to keep them every wednesday night and every other Fri/Sat/Sun
My wifes family is amazing (I was often mean to her mother also..butting heads/disagreeing/and just generally making points of just about everything) and her friends have provided a great support network for her from what I can tell.

She actually is reading through my posts right now from her house.

Mrs/Mr SE and everyone else....I just purchased surviving an affair and his needs/her needs from the website and am working on my NC letter right now....

I just wanted to let you know.

Hey U,

( can't help it, hey you!)

Post your NC letter here BEFORE sending it to OW. Waywards, even ones emerging from fog, are notorious for not seeing the little comments that slip in and essentially say "I will always hold a piece of you in my heart forever"

This letter need to only show emotion and hope for Mrs U.
There is a great template NCL in SAA to base yours on. My FWH actually just copied it direct to save argument.

Does everyone just think I'm a joke....Godddd!!!!!

It's ok, I'm starting to get it......And am trying!!!!

What is SAA and that's what I have been looking for are the sample ones everyone is talking about.

thanks

here ya go, ugottatri:

[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

She still cares...Mrs. ugt, you still CARE and that is good.

You don't want your children to suffer from a D anymore than Mr. ugt does...or more than anyone here wants to see that either.

It is a noble and good thing when you try to save your M for your children. If shows your heart.

SAA = Surviving An Affair. Do post your letter and get input... it is a good idea and you'll get good advice. Best wishes

That simple Melody? I thought it would be longer or something? I'll just cut/paste it right now and print a copy for myself and my wife and she can mail one also if she wants.

SAA....LOL....I was looking everywhere for it on the site and it just didn't make sense and as soon as I read your post and saw Pg. 58, it clicked SURVIVING AN AFFAIR!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks again,

Here is draft #1, I will check back later this evening and see what everyone who sees it has to say. If I left anything out or said to much, don't hesitate to let me know.

XXXXX,
I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that XXX did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay XXX for everything I forced her to endure, things that I said to her in front of you and pain that I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband that I always should have been and the one she has been missing. I love my family more than anything else and I would not want to do anything more than I have already done ever again to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX