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Sunflower-


I recently brought this very topic up with my H. I must say, I feel very much as you do. In our case, the OW and her H were close personal friends of ours. Well, to be honest, I was friends with the OW and our H's were mostly friends through our association.

Ive often thought how healing it would be for me for the OW to apologize to me for what she did to me . She never will of course.

Im aware of the fact that my wanting H to apologize to OWH is less than altruistic, of course. If my H apologizes, in my eyes, he becomes less like her. I could hold him in higher esteem than her. After all, they were both guilty of lying and generally sleazy behavior. Apologizing to the BS of OW would somehow set him above. Would I respect my H more? You bet I would. Because it is an incredibly difficult thing to do. Its opening yourself up to an admitedly deserved attack. It indicates some level of awareness of something other than yourself.


Quote
3. They have come to realize their own behavior was inexcusable, and feel the personal need to make amends

Unless my H gets to this place as mentioned above, his apologizing wont mean much. And Im not sure my H will ever get there. Its only been in the last 6-9 months where he is finally understanding what he did to me never mind to OW'H.

Oddly enough, my H has a GREAT deal of animosity towards OWH. My H claims this stems from OW's H coming to our house the day after d-day and standing in our driveway screaming at my H in full earshot of my children and the OW's H spewing out some horrible truths about my H's A that my H hadnt told me. I dont think it has ever occured to him that what OW's H did to my H, how my H felt attacked and humiliated was NOTHING compared to what my H did to OW's H.

And I gotta be honest, at least OW's H was upfront about it. He didnt lie and sneak around, they way H and OW did.

I respect that.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

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I would like to add the NC piece to this. When I apologized to FOM's DW they still lived in our neighborhood. I wonder how many AP's want to apologize but don't want to break NC.

What is more important to you, an apology or NC?

LC





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black raven-
i give you H major kudos for facing the OW's H so soon after d-day. it says alot about his character- that he was brave- that he wanted to try to make restitution for his wrongs- and the he has integrity inside.

these are NONE of the things i say in my H. the only thing i can give him credit for is that he confessed. while i had heard suspicious phone calls and texts through the years- he had always LIED straight into my eyes and explained them away. how stupid and trusting was i!! and how much i wanted to believe these lies.

anyway- i had to give my H an ultimatum- that if he did not make NC calls in front of me by a certain date and time - i was kicking him out. and even though i gave him two weeks, he waited until the last day and the final hours. how can i respect him now???

and then i went in person to three of the OW who live in our town and confronted them with him. he came along- because i again gave him an ultimatum.

now- a year and a half later- i wonder who he still is inside..

you are very lucky that your H behaved in that way. it shows inner depth and character.

sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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pep-
i agree with you- doing the right thing for the right reason - can never be an attempt to punish. it is learning to live a life filled with honesty instead of lies.

it is knowing what the morally correct thing to do is- and my H does nto have that - yet - or maybe ever.

i will bring it up to the Harleys- for the final word on what to do- because now i am confused.

sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
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road-
a very strong post- made me think.

my reasons for exposing the affairs to the other BSs- is it to help them make their relationships better???NO.

my reason for exposing....feeling empathy for the other BS?? NO- not for the two who were our friends because one of them was cheating on his wife with prostitues, and the other is a whiny kind of guy - who i never liked.

i know he deserves honesty- as do the two from his job. those two spouses i dont know at all.

i think the main reason is taht i want to see that my H has reached a new moral ground where he values honesty- where he will stop being a coward- where he will live his life with integrity.

hmm- maybe i should expose these 4 now.... i am thinking about it. i need professional advise- and will have a phone conference with the harleys or ask at the MB weekend in march.

what i mean about hurting my kids - NO- they wouldnt physically hurt them- but they would expose the affair probably to EVERYONE - and we live in a religious community - so my kids would be the kids of a pariah- .... i cant stand my kids suffering.

i do agree that my H is still selfish and still a COWARD- and i dont know how to respect a man who is those things and have a relationship wiht him- knowing that.

sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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justkim-
i am exactly on the same page with you here!

you put into words what i couldnt express- "he becomes less like her". this is it in a nutshell.

how do i reconcile living and working on a marriage who is of equal character to the OW who havent apologized to me??

the only difference here is that my H told me himself- the OW never told their spouses. so my H is on a better plane there.

but he is still in their category.

and he is exactly as you say - just learning how hurtful his behavior was to me - no less the the other BSs.

so how do i contemplate making a marriage with him??

is this something he will come to in time and i need patience - or is he just not on that level where he can have empathy and courage??

sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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LC-
the NC would not be an issue because two of the men are divorced from the OW- and one is remarried- so my H could easily contact them without seeing hte OW.

the other two from work would have to be on the phone- so maybe i would call first and then hand the phone to my H.

i dont know - but it seems moot now. he would not have a true apology anyway - so i will not push it.

just lose more respect for him by the day. and think about me exposing - but i want professional advise from the harleys about this before i do anything.

the harleys said full exposure when the affair was ongoing to help end it- but what if it is over for years????

sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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i just want to scream!!!!!!!!!!!

i discussed this issue again with my H, and he says that he has been thinking about apologizing to the OW's husbands and ALSO APOLOGIZING TO THE OW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IS HE CRAZY!!!!!!

I had to end hte conversation and come here -b/c i was about to have an AO.

so he still cares for hte OW's feelings???? he wants to break NC and APLOGIZE TO THEM??????????????????

why do i feel like we are rotating on different planets?? why cant he see what is wrong with him saying and thinking about apoligizing to the OW??? why cant he see waht hte difference is of him apologizing to the BSs???????

i feel like i am talking to a wall- there is no understanding of anything i say.

sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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There is no reason for WH to break NC with his harem of OW. They do not need an apology for banging your WH. There is no need or way to justify your WH to break NC with these women.

As to apologizing to the OWH's this can be done without breakng NC with the OW.

Why is WH wanting to break NC with these OW?

Is it because he wants to warn these OW that their BH's are about to be told about their cheating on them?

No need to provide warnings so these OW can start spining to do damage control. If they wanted to do damage control the should not of had sex with your WH. The damage control boat is long gone.

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Originally Posted by sunflower55
and ALSO APOLOGIZING TO THE OW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IS HE CRAZY!!!!!!

Well probably for at least 2 years after d-day, my FWW wanted to apologise to OM as well. She did apologise to OM'sW within a few weeks of her coming home but the apology to OM weighed on her mind for a long time (read YEARS)

OM himself did try to break NC to "apologise" about 6 months ago which resulted in legal action against him and my wife handled the situation very correctly then.

It's a dumb [censored] thing to do but them wanting to do it is understandable at some level IMO. Of course they must maintain NC with their former affair partner.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
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Sunflower

Whether or not it will come in time largely depends on your H. If he is truly remorseful ( and I will address that in a minute) then yes, it will come in time. It is likely that at the moment, he doesnt possess the required level of empathy and courage you speak of.

Now, true remorse. That is a difficult one for me. What does true remorse look like to you? I often think that most WS have a difficult time with empathy and remorse because fundamentally, the type of person who has an A in the first place is very self absorbed. Because this is a character trait, self absorbtion, it makes it awfully difficult to empathize with someone else's pain.

I know Dr Harley states that we could *all* have affairs, that we are *all* wired for it but I disagree. I could no more have an A than I could plot cold blooded murder. That doesnt mean I havent thought about doing either one. I have. But thinking about it and doing it are two different things.

You ask how you can reconcile these things? The truth is, I dont know. Im almost 3 years post d-day and I havent gotten to that place yet. Some days, I feel like I can rebuild and move forward. Life feels good. Other days, not so much and still others, I KNOW I cant.

I wish I had more positive things to say to you. The one thing I can say is that I understand.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
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Quote
I know Dr Harley states that we could *all* have affairs, that we are *all* wired for it but I disagree. I could no more have an A than I could plot cold blooded murder. That doesnt mean I havent thought about doing either one. I have. But thinking about it and doing it are two different things.

JustKim,

Pre-A I could have said the exact same thing you did above. By nature I am not a self-absorbed person nor am I a selfish person yet there I was making a whole heck of a lot of poor choices in that direction.

Never in my wildest dreams did I EVER think I was capable of cheating on my H and I did.

LC





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Quote
As to apologizing to the OWH's this can be done without breakng NC with the OW.

I agree, but isn't it possible the other BS is moving on with their life and doesn't want to hear from their SO's AP. I know my DH would not want to hear from my FOM at this stage in our lives. We have moved on and wouldn't want him invading our lives again.

Of course, there is no way of knowing the wishes of someone else.

Maybe I have it wrong, but I thought NC for life was a good rule to follow for all involved.

IMO, opening up a can of worms may not be a good idea especially if the A was many years ago. I would hope it wouldn't happen, but if my FOM contacted my DH at this stage in the game, I do fear where my mind would go even if the contact wasn't with me.

LC





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LC

I understand what you are saying. However, I do think that for some people, its just not possible. I dunno, maybe Im naive. All I know is that, Pre A, I was just as unhappy as my H. I had plenty of opportunities to have an A and I didnt. Did I want to? You bet I did. I very much wanted to feel loved again, to be understood, and cared for. I wasnt getting that at all in my M. These other folks were VERY attractive to me in that they were offering that.

But, I didnt do it.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

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I agree with LC, if it has been years then leave it be. We're not too far down the recovery road in time but are in distance. My H wouldn't be bothered either way if FOM apologised, but for me I think it would stir things up - I'd wonder: Why now?, Is he just trying to make contact? Are they over it? All sorts.

It would feel like the FOM was trying to stir things up. I know the answer does relate to what it would do for WW (ie me) but like I said my H wouldn't be fussed, he said that he would ask Why? too.


BTW JustKim - My former English/ History teachers always commented on my amazing powers of empathy. I always thought that if I had a prob in my marriage I would sort it out, end the M if necessary before finding someone else. As LC said pre - A I would have said exactly the same thing as you. But somewhere along the way I made some bad choices too.

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JustKim,

I too had several opportunities to have an A throughout our marriage and didn't go there. IMO, with the right mix of circumstances I do believe it can happen to anyone.

LC





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ST,

Besides what you said I would also imagine it would be an ego boost to the AP.

In my reply above I refrained from saying where my mind would go. No matter what his intent, I know exactly what I would think if my FOM contacted my DH.

LC





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LC

Perhaps you are right. It may well be one of those things that you cant understand unless youve been there, much like the WS can never really understand the pain the BS has from an A unless they have been through it.

Dont get me wrong, its not like I feel that all WS's are lacking in character. Its more like I feel that someone who has an A is choosing to suspend their character


Its like the moral compass, values and decision making abilities go right out the window.

For some WS's however, it isnt a suspension of character as the same patterns continues post affair.


Can you elaborate on what you mean on how you would feel if FOM contacted your H? Im not really sure how I understand how that would be an ego boost

I too fear that if my H *did* apologize to the OWH, it would open contact back up. The OW has tried very very hard over the past 3 years to intigate contact. All is quiet at the moment and that is a good thing. Frankly, I think if my H *did* apologize to the OWH and didnt mention the OW at all, it would serve to send a very strong message of her irrelevance. And yes, likely hurt her.

Which is likely one of the things that I would hope to achieve, now that I think of it.

SF- Hope this isnt a T/J for you and is helpful

Ack.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

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Originally Posted by sunflower55
black raven-
i give you H major kudos for facing the OW's H so soon after d-day. it says alot about his character- that he was brave- that he wanted to try to make restitution for his wrongs- and the he has integrity inside.

these are NONE of the things i say in my H. the only thing i can give him credit for is that he confessed. while i had heard suspicious phone calls and texts through the years- he had always LIED straight into my eyes and explained them away. how stupid and trusting was i!! and how much i wanted to believe these lies.

anyway- i had to give my H an ultimatum- that if he did not make NC calls in front of me by a certain date and time - i was kicking him out. and even though i gave him two weeks, he waited until the last day and the final hours. how can i respect him now???

and then i went in person to three of the OW who live in our town and confronted them with him. he came along- because i again gave him an ultimatum.

now- a year and a half later- i wonder who he still is inside..

you are very lucky that your H behaved in that way. it shows inner depth and character.

sf

FWH facing OWH did show me that somewhere in there was the man I once knew. H had to face him more than once. FWH did his fair share of delaying recovery, but his apology was a step in the right direction.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by bigkahuna
It's a dumb [censored] thing to do but them wanting to do it is understandable at some level IMO.

I have to agree with this to some extent. While I don't think FWH owed OW an apology I can understand him wanting to on some level. APs use each other. FWH used OW. He felt bad about it. Whether OW voluntarily signed up for it or not wasn't the point. I know if I used a person I'd feel like crap if I was remorseful about my actions.

Lucky for me, OW was vindictive and FWH got to see her without the rose colored glasses on. Now he doesn't feel he owes her squat. If any BW has a vindictive OW, you might be able to sit back and let the OW destroy any "good" image your BH had of her. Let him get :twobyfour: by OW.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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